this sunday, truth and consequences. president trump makes many false clms about th justice department and inspector general's report. >> the report yesterday may be more important than than anything it totally exonerates me. >> no, it doesn't. the fbi. >> you look at what happened, they were plotting against my election. no, they wereant. about separating the moildren at the boarder. >> that's the decrat's bill that's the democrats wanting to othat. >> no it isn't. how cane believe a president who routinely says things that are provably false? my guests kellyanne conway and am schiff.

plus, what is happening to the children separated from fair parents? >> this place is called a shelter but the kids are in fact incarcerated. >> whoever wins the immigration battle the children are the losers. and the new endangeredsp ies -- republicans who criticize the president. my conversation with trump critic congressman mark sanford. t his republican primary race. joining me for insight and analysis are, nbc news national political reporter carol lee. "nework times" pentagon correspondent he lean cooper. republican strategist al cardenas. and "new york times" columst brett stevens. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." i >> from nbc ne washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with uck todd.d >> g sunday morning. happy father's day. what kind of week has it been for president trump?

to president trump's critics the north korea summit was a self-serving spectacle that achieved lit and to the president it moved the world away from nuclear war. to the critics the gh, 7 summit was an unnecessary insult to our closes alleyieallies. to the president, it was a triumph of american strength. mr. trump megyn kellying it clear the u.s. will no longer plsu the role ofer to greedy allies to the critics the inspector general's report vindicated hillary clinton that he t campaign was campaign of james comey's decisions. to president trump the report fully exonerated him from charges of obstruction of justice and collusion. finally toshe presiden critics, the jailing of his former campaign manager paul manafort was more evidence of the conspiracy and collusion with russia and toum president it was a tough sentence. what about comey and crooked hillary? very unfair, he tweets. well, some of the president's sertions this week are debatable, others are flatout false. first of all the ig report did

not exonerate it. the focus was onhe hillary clinton e-mail investigation and not the mueller probe andithough depresident trump's claims it's not a democratic bill that's separating the families at the border it's trump administration policy enacted by the attorney general. still the president spent the week feeling and acting emboldened, highlighted facts where they were helpful and making them up where they weren't. >> paul manafort worked for h for short amount of time. >> president trump sved up shorthoods before his former campaign manager was sent to jail. he wasrded to behind the bars. ahead of his trial on federal conspicy and money laundering charges set for late this summer. >> he worked for me for 49 days ething. very short period of time. >> that's not true. in fact, manafort worked for mr. trump's presidential campaysn for 144 da. including during the crucial

republican convention. the president also defended former national security adviser michael flynn. >> some people say he lied and some people say he didn't lie. i mean, really it turned out maybe he didn't lie. >> in fact, flynn has already pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi and trump tweeted back in december i h to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. on misleading statement he diated last year about trump tower meeting with russians during the 2016 campaign, which his lawyer at firstie don "meet the press," then his legal team admitted to -- >> let's not talk about it. you know what that is? it's irrelevant. it's a statement to "the new york times." not a statement to the high tribunal of udges. >> that's the president admitting he misled "the new york times." emboldened ter the meeting this week with north korea dictator kim jong-un, mr. trump returnthe united states eager to go on offense against his political opponents. and hinted there will be rewards down the road for his allies if

they stay loyal. the president's aorney rudy giuliani said on friday that the mueller investigation might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons. before pullingback. >> he's not going to pardon anybody. in this investigation. but he's not obviously going to give up his righto pardon if thers amiscarriage of justice. >> lately he's facing little pushback from his own party. >> it's become cultish. >> some may be done defending mueller if the president acts against him. >> what i think leout the muelinvestigation they ought to wrap it up. it's gone on seemingly forever. >> mr. trump is relishing the lack of congressional and political guarails also making false statements about separating migrant children from their parents. which over a six week period separated nearly re2,000 chi >> i hate the children being taken away.

the democrats have to change their law. that's their law. >> sir -- >> quiet. >> and joining me now is kellyanne conway counselor to president tr tp. welcome ba"meet the press." >> thank you, chuck. >> i want to start with something that senator graham said on friday on kenn. listen. >> president trump could stop this policy with the phone call. >> he doesn't seem to acknowledge that. >> well, he can't. now go tell him. if you don't like families being separated you can tell dhs stop doing it. >> is the president ready to make that phone call to the attorney general to dhs, stop this policy? >> the president i ready to get meaningful immigration reform across the board and chuck, let me just tell you that nobody likes seeing babies ripped from their mother's arms, from their mother's wombs frankly, but we have to make sure that dhs is -- the laws are understood through the sound bite culture we live in. there are three circumstances by which dhs evaluates a child at

the border. one is does this child actually chave atodial or familial relationship with the adult? number two, is i the child danger and plenty have been over time. some adults are using childre to gainaccess to the border. number three is the adult subject to criminal prosecution? this is aexing problem that both presidents bush and president obama faced as well.y secret dhs under president obama told "the new york times" this weekend that this was the bane of his extence for three ars. he was describing the fact that they had to detain families in these large facilities for a very long period of time. why? because in the summer of 2014, we saw this surge particularly from central america. tens of thousands if not more unaccompanied miners coming to the border and trying to gain eny. i have teenage daughter, you have a dean age daughter. can we say with a straight face that we know all -- what happened to the teenage girls? very left leaning reporters fro

huffd a segment about the girls faced certain rape trying to make that journey northward. many of them are getting vaccinated or getting shots for birth control because it was almost certain. this is a perilous journe ofor mathe children and if people cared, we would figure out way to get the funding to expand the centers and to close the loopholes. ese loopholes are allowing open border policies. i think what the president is saying if the serious they'll come together again and try to close these loopholes and get real immigration reform. >> so it sounds like -- this is going to sound harsh but sounds like you're holding the kids g hostage the democrats to the table to pass some law. >> no. >> you disjust laidout a very compassionate case for why. i understand, you just laid out a very compassion -- with lot of compassion, a lot of empathy in there. but it's not very empathetic the most traumatic thing to do to the kid separateem from their parents once they made that journey. why do that right now? i understand we have an immigration debate going on in this country.

y use these kids as leverage? don't want ertainly anybody to use these kids as leverage. i saw a headlinthat breathlessly screamed as much objected to that forcefully. let me say this. these children are -- >> in fa a white house official who told the "wall streejournal" -- the inking is to force people to the table. >> by the way i want that person to say it to my face, i really do. i'll meet them at the white house because i think that's a disgrace. >> should that person be fire liquiditied? >> that person should have the guts t come forward and put their name to that quote. how's thatter? numbertwo, and most importantly, these children are handed over to hhs.be why? use that's health and human services so they can be put into the facilities like al cajon where there was a report that there were boys aged 6 to 17 who were all there. theyceave the ary medications. obviously, food and shelter. oney have exercise. they have educauring the day. >> i don't -- nobody is doubting that they're gettin reasonable care there. the question is, the most

dramatic thing do is taking them away in first place. you don'have to. >> chuck -- >> you don't have to be doing that. t >> in orders if i com crime and i'm put in jail, my four children are separated from their mother. because we don't have a policy or why would you want the children in jail with their parents? you want them in the facility temporarily or you want them to be repatriated back to the home country with said parent or come in with a responsible adult who you know, who the authorities ea are confident that child no harm, won't get them into the gang. won't subject them t afficking or rape or worse. you want them to go with a family member or another close family fri wd whold be a custodian. so this has been a vexing problem for many years. i woultell everybody, this week when the president goes to congress at 5:30 on tuesday, get together, chuck, i don't remember a single democrat

debut -- i could be mistaken, nd the he republicans democrats were invited to the cabinet room. i believe that your cable station covered live. >> sure. >> for one hour, did this issue come u the democrats only want to talk about daca the, dreamers. >> but in fairness kids weren't become separated from their parents this policy got implemented in april. a zero tolerance policy where every migrant, asylum seekers are treated as a criminal. > it's adjudicated, and what they should have said is look, we had a surge over the border in 2014. mr. president, under president obama, it shocked everyone and we simply didn't have the capacity. we want to avoid that in the future and work wit ok, the democrats just own it. why don't they say, we're for open borders.

if you extrapolate the mey spent on every unaccompanied no we have 18 million in households that make less than $35,000. >> but as you know, this a question of morality. a question of -- >> you have heard me weigh in ot >> i did. >> as a mother, as catholic, as somebody who has got a conscience and wouldn't say the junk that somebody said. apparently, allegedly. i will tellyou that nobody likes this policy. you saw the president on camera, he wants this to end. but everybody has -- >> he can end it on his own. >> chuck, congress padded -- passed a law that it's a crime. this is a crimto enter this country illegally. so if they don't like that law they should change it. >> you can keep the families together. why can't you find a way to still potentially -- >> -- as opposed to -- >> why don't you create a family detention center? >> we had those under presidende obama but thcrats are holding up the funding to e them.

the president had a 70 point immigration plan this was included in it. doubling theetention center capacity, hiring more i.c.e. agents. we don't have the capacity. those brave men and women at the border trying to do their jobs as best they can, this is an and if the democrats are serious and if a lot of republicans are serious they'll come together. they won't talk about this week the dreamers or just the wall. or just cah and release. it's all of the above. there are ways to repatriate ese families back to their home countries expeditiously. i want to make cleth because k you for saying nobody is arguing the kids aren't getting care. a lot of folks are propretending the killeds are not getting. aa lot of peopl your network are saying it's analogous to the concentration camps. >> i want to move totariffs. there's a headline in "the des moines reg impact this is having on the farm states. iowa is feelingat it the 624 million hit on soybean sails alone. perhaps for iowa.

fledged trade ull war now with china, canada, the european union, mexico which may not be as helpful to us in this border problem because we're beating them up with tariffs. is the president going to follow through with the tariffs? >> respectfully, the president's position is we lost the trade war a long ago and you know who lost it? the american worker lost it. you have over 300,000 new construction jobs, 300,000 new o manufacturin, more jobs created in timber and mining. these were industries that were flat on their back in years past and never hadeen the growth in the job security you see under this president. this pre has exempted certain countries, industries. he's given a pause for a month, then another month. but he thinks that we have been on the losing end of this so-called trade war for years. we have a $400 billion deficit with china. >> you're creating your own political problem in the midwest. >> i didn't say that.

these farmers are very -- many of them are very supportive of president trump because they like his policies when it comes deregulationuts and and the fact that china is buying beef and poultry and dairy for first time in a years. every time the president is told you can't do that it will never happen, what a mistkie you'll be , pulling out of the paris accords, going over to singapore and trying to get denuclearization of the korean peninsula. really keeping the promise of five presidents to move the l -- excuse me, recogniz jerusalem as the capital of israel and move our u.s. embassy there he keeps the prleises and peay don't do it, it will be a disaster. this will play out over time. but he's tiredf the american workers getting screwed. >> president trump on friday said the real fbi, those guys love me. what does that mean? what's the real fbd >> the rank le -- it cease so disturbing to everyone when you see the comments being made in text messages. on september 9ath, the day that hillary clinton would go on

to refer to president trump'srs suppors irredeemable and deplorable, the same day an fbi agent according to the igeport referred to trump's supporters in iowa -- excuse me, ohio asre rded. are we comfortable with that? who is that person? does that person still work at the fbi? are they still getting government resources? do they have his top secret -- >> are you comfortablethe fact that the new york fbistaff was leaking stuff to devin nunes against hilla what is going on if -- i understand you guys want to make an issue of that. that new york fbi office looks like it's leaking like a sieve. >> apparently in exchange for some leaks that fbi officials were taking gifts from and you should be very concerned too. i'm sure you are. that pple are being offered meals and tickets to games and things of reer value. whatthey getting in exchange? a new friend? orwh someon would be a source for them? it's very disconcerting. there are many concerting things

in the report. i know people are running around cherry picking it according to their own political point of view. what i would recommend, uck, is that everybody take the time to really di8st pages. although people say that oh, the actions weren't biased. the people certainly were biased at the tippy top. james comey got r s welcome for a silly book about leadership, morality and you have the ig report coming to the same conclusion, he was ordinary not and outside the chain of command. >> if the president d never uttered the word russia to lester holt, then he would have -- he would have been on higher ground. >> happy father's y. >> thank you so much. same to george. when the justice department's ig report wased relen thursday, here was the reaction of the head of the fbi, christopher wray. >> this report did not find any evidence of political bias or

improper considerations actually impacting the investigation under review. the report does identify errorst of judg, violations of or even disregard for policy and decisions that at the very least with the benefit of hndsight were not the best choices. >> joining me is the chief democrat on the housell inence committee, adam schiff. >> thank you. >> we sort of ended there with the report did include thatex tt messagange between two romantically involved fbi emoyees, peter strzok and lisa page. august 8, 2016, trump is not ever going to become president, right, right strzok said no, we'll stop it. if the were shoe on the other foot can you imagine what democrats would be saying? if they had text messages from new york fbi agents, right, that said, we're stopping her. >> yes, i certainly can and in fact the report spells out that lorettayh and james comey

talked about the virulent anti-clint i bias whic a concern to democrats. factuld take solace in the that the ig found this didn't have an effect on the decision making at the esureau. withct to the new york office we don't know that's the case. presumably -- >> didn't kelly ann say the case, we don't know if that's the ca with peter strzok? >> there's an ongoi investigation on to whether the new york field office was leaking to rudy giuliani or theu chairman ocommittee. that's ongoing. so we don't know the answer yet about whether that ultimately affected the revelation on anthony weiner's laptopan-mails. >> i to bring up devin nunes, something amazing he admitted to earlier this week. take a listen. >>e had whistle-blowers that came to us in late se16ember of 20ho talked to us about this laptop sitting up in new york that had additional e-mails on it. >> so od fbi agents brought

this to our attention.ou but what we do with it? >> for what it's worth, september 26 of 2016 is when this laptop was discoved. so it doesn't i don't think meet the definition of whistle blowing. he said we in the intelligence committee. were you informed of tins whistle bl >> no, this is the first we have heard about it and it's deeply disturbing because if this was shared by new yowi field agents devin nunes, was it also shared with rudy giuliani? or did devin nunes do something which we have seen subsequently which is coordinate with theam trump was this information share z by the committee with rudy giuliani h shared directly whim? we don't know the answer. but we hope the inspector general will find >>out. o you think peter strzok should be with the fbi at this point? >> i don't know. i imine that the office of professional responsibility will have to make that decision. certainly the text messages are troubling. the fact they were on work

e-mail, the fact tha were comingled with e-mails discussing business, all that's problematic. again, you know, the ig concluded that none of this affected the decision making but nonetheless, that was completely inappropriate. >> the midterm elections are coming up. there's an idea there should be uses when you have hi profile investigations is there a point that mueller should publicly pause, continuing the investigation, but not -- you know, is there a window where he shouldn't issue the report until after the election? >> i think that he's very conscious of not makine the same mistat comey made by having a decision or a public disclo re made close the election. so i have to think within a suitable period of time before november -- >> august 1? >> i don't know if it's 30 daye. 90 days or m >> it's not october. >> not october. absolutely not october. i think we're likely to see another ient before that window. the hacking and dumping operation wasn't charged in the last indictment.

the only reason to exclude that when it was part of that same overall conspiracy is if that part of the indictment either involves u.s. persons or you haven't finished to include the persons. >> there's a compromece of immigration legislation, paul ryan, that would include more protection for daca folks. not clear if it will have support on the right because they ca it amnesty. can you support this especially if the kids are n separated from the asylum seekers? >> i think what the administration is doing is they're using the grief, the tears, the pain of these kids as mortar to build their wall. and it's an effort to extort a bill to their liking in the congressk it's -- i th deeply unethical. and by the president's making these provle falsehoods about what's required thearty

opting that has become the -- the gop has become the party of lies. and it's such i think a sad -- >> painting the entire republican party with that? >> i'm saying that republican ombers of congress -- republican membecongress who will not call out the president for demonstrable falsehoods on a daily basis and often trump at them -- >> mark sanford did. he'll be on here later. he did and helost. >> well, this is the problem. because the gop in congress has been -- has become craven enough they'll do anything to maintain the majority, even be complicit with a president who ignores and tears down twh rule of law. repeats falsehood after falsehood. they cannot maintain their integrity as a party if they follow this esident. >> all right. do you have a better solution on how to deal with thisan mi crisis from central america? it's now a four-year crisis? >> first of all, i think we end this policy of separating kids

from their rents. and then i think, you know, we have to work with these countries to figure out what we can do to stem the violence back home. what we can do to humanely dwhl fleeing lare because they have no option but to flee. we need to be working with our southern neighbor, mexico, to deal with this crisis. none of this can be resolved by angry tweets or by ing these families as a leverage. look, you're absolutelyight, it's going to be very difficult to get a comprehensive immigration bill in election year, any year. les not tear the families apart in the meantime. >> shouldn't be partf e immigration -- separating them? >> it shouldn't be. it's just plain wrong and >> adam schiff, i have to leave it there. ranking democrat on the intelligence committee. democrat from california. thank you. when we come back, it'som neverrtable to call the president of the united states a liar. but what do youn say whe the but what do youn say whe the president says

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back now with the panel. "new york times" columnist bret stephens. nbc news political recorder carol lee and helene cooper. rich card amass. all right. let me put together thisist of just outright misstatements or lies. >> well, no, there's no trade war. i think that the report yesterday may be morey importantlh t than anything it totallyon ates me. some people say he lied, maybe he didn't lie. manafort has nothing to do with our campaign. the democrats have to change their law. that's their law. president obama lost crimea, just so you understand. >> every single one of those things is absolutely not true. the crimea one being the most

ridiculous. there's no democratic bill, manafort for three months -- more than almost six months of the campaign. the president himself said michael flynn lied, that's why he fired him. th ig report was of course not about that. bret stephens? it's -- wh do you do? >> you have to be a tax on mist falses. he has been traicking in a substance that's identical to my initials. >> your name again is bret stephens. >> right. >> i wanted to clarify. >> i mean, this is a world sort of -- the gray world betweennd clear truthsnmistakable lies. and there's always a question also about the president's state of mind because he sayf and then often doesn't seem to remember what he had said the day, the hour, the minute before. i still think that yu have to hold the president clearly accountable when he is contradicting information that

he has previously pervaded. >> it's funny you say this about themental capacity. andrew sullivan went there. if someone beved like this, if someone kept initialing that the sea was red and the sky was green i would assume they were a few sandwiches short of a picnic. it's vital to remember this every day, almost no one else in public life is no openly living in his own world. >> what do you wan me to do? that's like -- it's something that at the "the times" we have been wrestling with because we getot af letters from readers why don't you call a lie a lie, and we have said lied in the past. but the executiveeditor of"the times" says we shouldn't use itu all the time b it loses

the meaning. i can't remember wrestle with -- if you keep saying and he's right to a certain extent if you keep saying lie, lie, lie, it loses the impact when it's a whopper. it's something i don't have to deal with when it's the tpresident. t's the thing. all politicians tell lies. we have experienced this in covering -- >> but there used mob honor among thieves. >> this is a differentl el. what we struggle with as reporters, it's deliberate. soowith president trump you in order to call it a lie, you have to be able to show that he is deliberately and intentionally doing that. a lot of times when he's ill informed, misi'tormed you d know what his intent is. that adds a whole other dimension we are not u. but his false statements -- there's nothing to compare it with. >> after watching what you just played out here, the only -- you

only reach one of two conclusions. doen he havel capability issues or he is chronically doing this and if he's doing it chronically is it purposeful? f , you know, just a matter habit or addiction? and -- >> it does sound like he'sin sea time share all the time. >> here's the point. the point politically it's less damaging for him to lie 18 times in one morning than once. because that feature thatelps him the most is the numbness. because of the frequency a lume of these things. the numbnessraith the elec. they have so much to absorb and so little time to do it that they go home half of the time confused rather than convinced that something is amiss here. >> what a great point. you know, barack obama got the quote lie of the year, if you pllike your health care , you get to keep it. that was back12 in r '13. but you're right. he didn't serially do it. here he's punished for one -- the numbness. >> the lies sortof disappear in

their own ubiquity. but it's important -- >> rig out of the putin playbook. >> right, it's important to pick our spots. i remember senor mccain said i n't be the car alarm that's always going off.i and ink we also have to be careful about -- for our own credibility about being very scrupulous of separating what are clear lies or seem to be clear lies from misstatements, falsehoods. otherwise, it gives him the opening to call us the fake news media which is what he wants. >> it's possible one of the reasons he did that crazy press scrum on friday is that it's been a bad week legally for t president. this is all the developments this week. michael cohen splitting with his legal team. is he going to flip? paul manafort now in jail. is he going to flip? don mcgahn, the white house counsel recused his office from the mueller probe months ago and now theorney general of new york is suing the trump

foundationnd perhaps referring a criminal complaint to the irs. this was not a goo week legally. >> no, not at all. you see him latch on to this ig report to argue that he's been vindicated and thaer you know, s bias at the fbi and that all of his -- the whole publica ca that he's been waging against the mueller investigation is valid and that he's ramping that up and so not only did he do that scrum on the white house lawn, whic hby the way,e never seen a president do. but he also is latching on to that and preparing to really double down on thei pushback and effort to undermine the muler sgletion whatou left out from that he had an interview friday morn on the white house lawn with "fox & friends" and he heaped this praise on kim jong-un and he likes the way ths he makes people sit up at attention with

him and he wishes he could dhi the same wit people. later on he said he was kidding but it's such extraordinary -- at a time where we have had a year and a half of extraordinary president trump performances, i think friday should be up there. in >> here's the that is an indicator that's troubling. there's been a lot of talk about whatlynn may have ne, what manafort may have done. some people tell me, well, those are selfish actions and those were horrible, and they're paying a legal price for it. but what's that got to do with president trump other than to ioy that he surrounds himself with people of queble judgment and moral ilk. but when we had last week or the week before that admonitiony the president himself that he wrote this script for "the new york times" for his son donald trump jr. and three times before they lied about it,ay i to myself, you know, there's more involvement here than meets the eye because with all the staff

that he s for him personally to do this with his son, he had to have a briefing of what occurred in order to write the wing. now we k of his involvement and in a concrete way that we didn't know before. >> what was amazing he almost admitted that yes, look, i lied to "the new york times," but so what? u guys areo high tribunal. >> saying it to the new york times. >> no high tribunal -- apparently it's not illegal to lie to the american people eith. when w come back, my interview with republican congressman sanford who lost his primary largely because he was willing trump's personal conduct. and he hasn't stopped criticizing him. six in the morning. she thought it was a fire. it was worse. a sinkhole opened up under our museum. eight priceless corvettes had plunged into it.

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secure to the core. i think, keep going, and make a difference. at some point, we are going to be able to beat als. because life is amazing. so i am hoping for a cure. i want this, to uh, to be a reality. um, yeah. welcome back. congressman mark sanford of south carolina has been tough on fellow republicans who criticized president trump in private but are silent in public. if you wanto know why they're silent, he's exhibit "a" because he's soon or the former congressman sanford. he has criticized president trump in public and on tuesday, mr. trump tweeted the following, mark sanford has been ver

unhelpful in my campaign to maga. guessawhat happened? ord lost the primary to arrington. and i sat down with the congressman on friday. i began by asking him if he blames president trump for his defeat. >> plenty of blame to go around, but if you boil it down i wouldn't -- i wasn't trump enough in the age of trump. yeah, so in that regard, he certainly had a >> you knew this for a while though. you saw this upfront. when did it dawn on you, boy, this is a tide you won't be able to deyseat? >> my have been saying this for a while. you begin to feel certain things, but at the end of the day in this process you have to be you. so i had spoken out as i had with regard to the president. and it cost me. so the commercials by the opponents were a greatest hits

of what i said about the president over the last year and half. if you look from the policy standpoint i was thsupportive. is not about policy, but it was about personal loyalty. >> let me play what your colleagues said to yourloss. >> when you're in primary season, again, it's usually a good thing not to be at odds with the most important elected official in your party. >> if you're not on the same page as the president, in , 95% of your base is that can cause a problem. >> you have to be critical and add value and, you know, my view is that i guess people didn't see the value. >> i know how close you and lindsey graham are. i think he's the god father tor one of y sons. i have noticed he's changeyl hi of late. it's -- you didn't. what did you make of tha >> people are scared of getting bad news from the president. they'll say what they want to say. the number of people who will say privately to you, this sz a

tribal as i have ever seen it in my life, b in public will say the things you saw on air. it's remarkable. that's been the case since the election, but even before where i legitimately disagreed with the president. baseon stands held for 20 years of my life. >> what's consvative -- do you think donald trump -- is the definition of conservative changed inside the republican party? >> i think we have to do a whole lot of sole searching as a party. it was a narrow victory back home. it was 3,000 votes one way or another. >> 00 votes for a runoff. >> correct. but what was interesting is the number of people who said, look, i want something between -- halfway crazy and socialist. what's happened to our party? i hear that over and over again. >> what's your explanation? >> well, legitimately, the trump phenomenon was caused by people who wanted to see a change in the way that washington works and that's real and it needs to be acknowledged but it has morphed or metastasized into something that is quite

different about this lar loyalty to the president himself. and so have i been loyal to -- you know, the conservative cause, yeah, i have everye mer ba the front. >> bob corker said this. it's becoming a cultish thing. it?'t it's not a good place for any party to end one a cult-like situation as it relates to the president eat happens to purportedly of the same party. would you use that word? >> i wouldn't gobuo far as cult. i would just say that from an electoralsense people are running for cover because they don't t wabe on the losing side of the presidential tweet. from a populist standpoint it's almost a philistine bargain, i'll pander to you if you band tore me and that exchange is very -- it's dangerous arally with rto the -- again, to what the founding father set up which is a syst designed to garner debate and dissent. the idea that you can't speak out and say, i disagree with you here, but i agree with youn

90%f the stuff is again a twilight world i have never seen. >> what about this issue that literally the president can say whatever he wants, fact free, mischaracterize the friday morning spectacle was something to behold. you -- like i said, you have been troubled by histh issues wh truth. you have been troubled by some of the things he's done with law enforcement. but speaking out cost you your political career. jeffosflake, his political career. the -- you guys are very like minded libertarian leaning conservatives. what does say that? >> well, we have gone from is george was'tngton, i cell a lie back down at the apple tree, to so replete and nobody questions him anymore. that's a dangerous spot to be in a reason based republic. i have a unique vantage point on this front. we all know the story of 2009 sion. imp >> yes >> a lie was told on my behalf

which means iwn it. more to the point i was tiving a lie t chapter of lies but there were incredible consequences.l financially, ically, socially, i lost -- i can go down a long is list. >> you paid a price. >> right. so maybe the reason i'm so outspoken on this now is there is no seeming consequence to the president and lies. atd if we accept t as a society, it is going to have incredibly harmful consequences in the way that we operate going forward, based onth construct of the founding fathers. >> why is it just you and jeff flake and bob corker? where's speaker ryan? where's the head of the legislative branch? > people are running for the hills. again, everybody -- what you do as an elected official is an all-time -- old time senator said the name of the gamis to stay out of the game. >> so you compartmentalize? >> you compartmentalize.

i saw a thing with kevin mccarthy talking about how the president was a genius with regard to trade and you're going oh, my goodness. tariffs are taxes. and yet, somehow we're going to rationalize at a republican party leadership level what the president iproposing with regard to, you know, using section 232, go down the list is somehow okay with what the republican party has historicallyretood for with rd to engagement or trade? i mean, i could come up with a long list of things that people rationalized but they do it because they want to stay in the game. >> you want to take the issues e national in 2020 and debe president about the direction of the party? >> no, i'm just trying to sort out e last 48 hours of my life. if you have -- i never lost an electionefore. so this is new territory. but there's some real soul searching that goes with it. i ha had a couple of differe chapters oft life tve caused intense soul searching and this is one of them. >> when we come back, a lot of voters don't like eitr political party, but

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voters ts year who fee negatively about both political par tirs and it could have a big impact in november. overall compared to 2010 when republicans gained 63 house ats this group of voters is now younger, less white and more likely to call themselvespo tical moderates or liberal. fie result -- in 2010 voters that were dissat with both parties favored the republicans by 26 points now, these dissatisfied voters favor democrats by 40 points more. among those voters who don't like either party keep in mind, these are the throw the bums out voters. they rarely vote for the party in power. when we come back, end game and what to do about those kids separated from their parents at the border. coming up, end game, brought

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"end game" broug to by boeing. continuing our mission to nnect, protect, inspire and explore. back now and the kids at the border. let me play for youat guys the rney general on hugh hulett's radio show explaining

the policy they have instituted. >> every time somebody gets prosecuted in america for a crime, american tizens, and they go to jail they're separated from their children. we don't want to do this at all. if peoplent don't o be separated from their children, they should not bring them with them. >> al? >> yep. sepaantion iety. i'm a refugee, i came to america. ied experieit. the pain, the heart break of a child about that experience will never go away in their lifetime. and to justify that by saying that -- to have a clean bed and food is -- it's such a cruel comment regarding what's going with the children and their parents. i will debunk two myths or lies from the white house right now. number one, things are not the same as before in two areas. number one, office of refugee resettlement. ulfore this white house changed the rules, they be the

ones that would then take the children, they would interview e children -- mostly had relatives here, mostly undocumented and they would turn the children or the relatives. the president of the united stateshanged it and gave i.c.e. the jurisdiction that the office ofesettlement for decades has had. so what does i.c.e. do? e u come to interview to t the child they deport you and the child remains veone so relaare not claiming the children. all of that is because of this policy. the secondolicy that's really all here, the president has total authority to deal with the separation of children. so all of those argumts are fell lay shouse. in the meantime, we have had 2,000 children sent spraited in a few weeks. that's w nng. this thids to get fixed. i don't care -- you know, just listening to kellyanne, when it

comes totrhuman edy, call a time-out for a week and get something >> helene, do you think that anonymous white house staffer will get -- be as harshly treated privately as she promised publicly >> of course not. it was a hard interview you just conducted with kellyanne conway because she's -- it was just one talking point after another. of course, my heart bleeds for these childreneing torn, you know, from their parents. i'm a mother, but at the end of the day, this is what the administration has chosen to do. what jeff sessio said to hugh hewitt was preposterous as well. he is saying that comparing it to a criminal matter whichseans he saying that it is -- they're treating it as if it's a crime to ask for political asyl that's a ridiculouscomparison. >> look, it's a master class in cynicism which is in turn born a philosophy that streets people coming to this country as

criminals and as liabilities. you heard it in the president's comments about people from s-hole countriit. you heard n previous jeff sessions' comments about why do we need these people who are -- >> joh kelly said they struled to assimilate. >> there are two refugees at this table, i'm a son of a refugee and we're living the americanream and we' evidence that an immigration-based culture is also a success culture. you generally actually judge the success of societies by how many people want to come to them. noma ho people want to flee them. onlequick point. erkel, the germans have worked hard with turkey and other countries to make sure at the refugee crisis stays outside of the borders, with some success. some falures. could do that with their -- here are options other than a cruel andunusual punishment, recalling almost -- almost recalling i should say japanese internment. >> carol, last point. >> well,h is a problem that the president created easily as you pointed out in the interview

with kellyanne, he could undo, but kicked it over to congress. you see the evangelical republicans say this is not a good policy and put pressure on the white house, yet, you know, the president is trying to have it both ways where he's playing to his base and saying this isn't my faultd >> , i have to end the conversation there. you guys can keep it going. before i go, i want to announce the return of the "meet the press" filmal festor its the second annual film festival. it will take place this october right here in washington. to learn more go to nbcnews.com/mtp film. may you want to submit a doc for our festival. that's all for to fay. than watching. happy father's day to all the dads out there. we'll be back next week. if it's press."'s "meet the

the leading democratic candidates face off in their last forum. leave from studio a, here's mad rater tom sherwood. >> hello and welcome. we're down to the final days of this primarynd campaign we're here with the six major democratic candidates for governor. let's start with quickly covering the rules. the forum will last one hour. b it willin with one-minute opening statements from each candidate. then our panelists will ask them questions, which have not been reviewed by the candidates. as moderator, i'll reserve the right to follow up as needed. now let's introduce the panelists. tracee lkins, news4 reporter and prince george's county bureau chief, and