this sunday, truth and consequences. president trump makes many false claims about the justice department and inspector general's report. >> the report yesterday may be more important than than anything it totally exonerates me. >> no, it doesn't. the fbi. >> you look at what happened, they were plotting against my election. >> no,ey weren't. and about separating the children at the boarder. >> that's the democrat's bill that's the democrats wanting to othat. >> no it isn't. hocan we believe a president tho routinely says things are provably false? my guests kellyanne conway and adam schiff. plus,hat is happening to the

children separated from fair parents? >> this place is called a shelter but the kids are in fact incarcerated. >> whoever wins the immigration battle the children are the losers. and the new endangered species -- republicans who criticize the president. my conversation with trump critic congressman marord. just lost his republican primary race. joining me for insight and analysis are, nbc news national repolitical porter carol e. "new york times" pentagon correspondent he lean cooper. republican strategist al cardenas. and "new york times" columnist brettstevens. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. happy father's day. what kind of week has it been for president trump?

to president trump'ss crthe north korea summit was a self-serving spectacle that achieved lit and to the president itth moveworld away from nuclear war. to the critics the gh, 7 summit was an unnecessary insult to our closest alleieallies. to the president, it was a triumph of american strength. mr. trump megyn kellying it clear the u.s. will noonger play the role of sucker to greedy allies to the critics the inspector general's report vindicated hillary clinton that her campaign was the campaign o jamey's decisions. to president trump the report fully exonerated him from charges of obstruction of justice and collusion. finally to the president's critics, the jailing of his former campaign manager paul manafort was more evidence of the conspiracy and with russia and to president trump it was a tough sentence. what about comey and crooked hillare very unfair, tweets. well, some of the president's assertions this week are debatable, others are flatout false. first of all the ig report did not exonerate it.

th focus was on the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and notel the mr probe and though despite president trump's claims it's not a democratic bill that's separating theie fam at the border it's trump administration policy enacted by the attorney general p still thsident spent the week feeling and acting embolded, highlighted facts where they were helpful and making them up where they weren't. >> paul manafort worked for he for a short amount of time. >> president trump served up shorthoods before his former campaign manager was sent to jail. he was ordered to behind the bars. ahead of his trial onal feder conspiracy and money laundering charges set for late this summer. >> he worked for me for 49 days or something. very short period of time. >> that's not in fact, manafort worked fortr . ump's presidential campaign for 144 days. including during the crucial

republican convention. the president also defended former national security adviser michael flynn. >> some people say hmelied and so people say he didn't lie. i mean, really it turned out maybe he didn't lie. >> in fact, flynn has already pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi and trump tweeted back in december i had to fire general flynn because he lied to the vice president and the fbi. on misleading statement he dictated last year about a trump tower meeting with russians during the 2016 campaign, which his lawyer at first denied on "meet the press," then his legal team admitted to - it.et's not talk about you know what that is? it's irrelevant. it's a statement to "the new york times." not a statement to the high tribunal of judges. >> that's the president admitting he misled "the new york times." emboldened after the meeting this week with north korea dictator kimr. jong-un, trump returned to the united states eager to go on offense against his political opponents. and hinted there will be rewards down t road for his allies if

they stay loyal. the president's attorney rudy giuliani said on friday that the mueller investigation might get cleaned up with someen presal pardons. before pulling back. >> he's not going to pardon anybody. in this inves'sgation. but ot obviously going to give up his righ to pardon if there's a miscarriage of justhee. >> latel facing little own party. m his >> it's become cultish. >> some may beef done endingel mur if the president acts against him. >> what i think about the mueller investigation they ought to'srap it up. it gone on seemingly forever. >> mr. trump is relishing the lack of congressional and politica guardrails also making false statements about separating migrant children from theirs. pare which over a six week period separated nearly 2,000 children. >> i hate the children being taken away. the democrats have to change their law.

that's their law. >> sir -- >> quiet. >> and joining me now is kellyanne conway counselor to president trump. welcome back to "meet the press." >> i want to start with something that senator graham said on friday on cnn. take a listen. >> pre this policy with the phone call. >> he doesn't seem to acknowledge that. >> well, he can't. now go tell him.ke if you don't families being separated you can tell dhs stop doing it. >> is the president ready to make that phone call to the attorney general to dhs, to stop this policy? >> the president is ready to get meaningful immigration reform across the board and chuck, let me just tell you that nobody likes seeing babies ripped from their mother's arms, from their mother's wombs franklywe have to make sure that dhs is -- the laws are understood through the sound bite culture we live in. there are three circumstances by which dhs evaluates a child at the e border. does this child actually

have a custodial or familia relationship with the adult? number two, is the child in danger and pley have been over me. some adults are using children to gain access to the border. number three is the adu bject to criminal prosecution? this is a vexing problem that both presidents bush and president obama faced as well. secretary of dhs undera resident obld "the new york times" this weekend that this was the bane of his existence for three years. he was describing th hfact that th to detain families in these large facilities for a very long period of time. why? because in the summer of 2014, we saw this surge particularly from central america. tens of thousands if not more unaccompanied miners coming to the border and trying to gain entry. i have a teenage daug aer, you hadean age daughter. can we say with atraight face at we know all -- what happened to the teenage girls? very left leaning reporters from

huff po did a segment about the girls faced certain rape trying to make that journey northward. many of them are getting vaccinated or getting shots for birth control because it was almost certain. this is a perilous journey for many of the children and ifle peared, we would figure out way to get the funding to expand the centersnd to close the loopholes. these loopholes are allowing open bderpolicies. i think what the president is saying if the democrats are serious they'll come together again and try to close these loopholeimand get real gration reform. >> so it sounds like this is going to sound harsh but sounds like you're holding the kids hostage to get the democrats to the table toss some law. >> no. >> you disjust laid out a very compassionate case for why. i understand, you just laid out a very compassion -- with a lot of compaion, a lotof empathy in there. but it's not very empathec the st traumatic thing to do to the kid separate them from their parents once they made that journey. why dohat right now? i understand we have an immigration debate going on in this country. whysehese kids as leverage?

>> well, i certainly don't want anybody to use these kids as leverage. i saw a headline that breathlesslycreamed as much and i objected to that forcefully. let e say this. thildren are -- >> in fairness by the way it was a white house official who told the "wall street journal" -- the thinking is to force people to the table. >> by the way i want that person to say it to my face, i really o i'll meet them at the white house because i think that's a disgrace. >> should that person be fire liquiditied? >> that person should have the guts to come forward and put their name to thatquote. how's thatter? number two, and most importantly, these children are handed over to hhs. why? because that's health and human services so they can be put into the facilities like al cajon where there was a report that there were boys aged 6 to 17 who were all there. they have the necessary on medica obviously, food and shelter. they have exercise. they have education during the a >> i don't -- nobody is doubting that they're getting reasonable care there. e question is, the most

dramatic thing to do isth takin away in first place. you don't have to. >> chuck -- >> you don't have to be doing that. >> in orders if i commit a crime and i'm put in jail, my four childr their mother.d from because we don't have a policy or why would you want the childr in jail with their parents? you want them in the facilitymp arily or you want them to be repatriated back to the home country with said parent or come in with a respooible adult you know, who the authorities are confident means that child no harm, won't get them into the won't subject them to trafficking or rape or worse. you want them to go with a family member or another close family friend who would be a cu odian. so this has been a vexing problem for many years. i would tell everybody, this es week when the ent goes to congress at 5:30 on tuesday, get together, chuck, i don't remember a single democrat

debut -- i could be mistaken, where the republicans and the democrats were invited tohe cabinet room. i believe that your cable station covered it live. >> sure. >> for one hour, did this issue come up? the democrats only want talk out daca the, dreamers. >> but in fairness kids weren't become separated from their parents then. thisic p got implemented in april. a zero tolerance policy where every migrant, asylum seekers are treated as a criminal. >> it's adjudicated, and what look,should have said is we had a surge over the border in 201 mr. president, under president obama, it shocked everplne and we sdidn't have the capacity. we want to avoid that in the future and work with. look, the democrats just own it. why don't they say, we're for open borders.

if you extrapolate the money spent on every unaccompanied minor, we have 18 million in households that make less than $35,000. >> but as you know, this is a question of morality. a question of -- >> you have heard me weigh in on that. >> i did. a as a mother, as catholi somebody who has got a conscience and wouldn't say the y.nk that somebodyaid. apparently, allege i will tell you that nobody likes this policy. you saw the president on camera, he wants this to end. but everybody has -- >> he can end it >> chuck, congress padded -- passed a law that it's a crime. this is a crime to enteilthis countrgally. so if they don't like that law they should change it. >> you can keep the falies together. why can't you find a way to still potentially -- >> -- as opposed to -- >> why don't you create a family detentioha center? >> wthose under president obama but the democrats are holding up the funding to expand them. the presidt had a70 point

immigration plan this was included in it. doubling the detention center capacity, hiring more i.c.e. agents. we don't have the capacity.an those brave mewomen at the border trying to do their jobs as best they can, this isan issue. and if the democrats are serious and if a lot of republicans are serious they'll come together. they won't talk about this week the dreamers orust the wall. or just catch and release. it's all of the above. there are ways to repatriate these families back to their home countries expeditiously. i want to make clear because thank you for saying nobody igu g the kids aren't getting care. a lot of folks are propretending the killeds are not getting. a lot of people a on your network are saying it's analogous to the concentration camps. >> i want to move on to tariffsr s a headline in "the des moines register" that shows the impact this is havingfan the states. iowa is feeling it at the 624 million alone.oybean sails perhaps for iowa.

we're in the full fledged trade war now with china, canada, the euroan union, mexico which may not be as helpful to us in this border problem because we' ating them up with tariffs. is the president going to follow through with the tariffs? >> respectfully, the president's position is we lost the trade war a long ago andounow who lost it? the american worker lost it. u have over 300,000 new construction jobs, 300,000 new manufacturing jobs, more jobs created in timber and mining. these weretr inds that were flat on their back in years past and never had seen the growth in the job security you see under this president. this president has exempted ceain countries, industries. he's given a pause for a month, then another month. but he thinks that we have been on the losing end of this so-called trade war for years. we have a $400 billion deficit with china. >> you're creating your own political problem in the midwest. >> i didn't say that. these farmers are very -- many

of them are very supportive of president trump because they like his policies when it comes to the taxts cnd deregulation and the fact that china is buying beef and dairy for first time in is a years. every time the president is told you cat do that it will never happen, what a mistake you'll be making, pulling out of the paris accords, going ov to singapore and trying to get denuclearization of the korens pea. really keeping the promise of to five presidentove the capital -- excuse me, recognize jerusalem as the capital of israel and move our u.s. embassy there he keeps promises and people say don't do it, it will be a disaster. this will play out over time. but he's tired of the american workers getting rewed. >> president trump on friday said the real fbi, those guys love me. mean?does that what's the real fbi? >> the rank and file -- it cease so disturbing to everyone whene you e comments being made in text messages september 9th, the same day that hillary clinton would go on to refer to presideump's

supporters as irredeemable and deplorable, the same day an fbi agent according to the ig report refeed to trump's supporters in iowa -- excuse me, ohio as retarded. are we comfortable with that? who is that person? does that persostill work at the fbi? are they still getting government resourc h? do they ha top secret -- >> are you comfortable with the fact that the new york fbi staff was leaking stuff to devin nunes against hillary clinton? what is going on if -- i understand you guys want to make an iss n of that. th york fbi office looks like it's leaking like a sieve. >> apparentlin exchange for me leaks that fbi officials were taking gifts from journalists. and you should be very concerned too. i'm sure you are. that people are being offered meals and tickets tond games things of real value. what were they getting in exchange? a new friend? or someone who would be a source for them? it's very disconcerting. there are many concerting things in the report.

i know people are running around cherry picking it according to point of politica view. what i would recommend, chuck, is that everybody take the time to really digest 568 pages. although people say that oh, the actionweren't biased. the people certainly were biased top.he tippy james comey got a hero's welcome for a silly book about leadership, morality andha you the ig report coming to the same conclusion, he was insub ordinary not and outside the >> if the president had never uttered the word russia to ster holt, then he would have -- he would have been on hier ground. happy father's day. >> thank you so much. same to george. when the justice i department report was released on thursday, here was the reaction of the head of the fbi, cistopher wray. this report did not find any evidence of political bias or improper considerations actually

imcting the investigation under review. the report does identify errors of judgment, violations of or even disregard for policy and decisions that at the very lstth he benefit of hindsight were not the best choices. >> joining me is the chnf democrat the house intelligence committee, adam schiff. >> thank you. >> we sort ofnded there with kellyanne conway. the report did include that text message exchange between two romantically involved fbi employees, peter strzok and lisa page. august 8, 2016, trump is not ever going to become president, right, right? strzok said no, we'll stop it. if the were shoe on the other foot can youmomagine what ats would be saying? if they had txt messages from new york fbi agents, right, that said, we're stopping her. >> yes, i certainly can and in fact the report spel that loretta lynch and james comey

talkedbout the virulent anti-clinton bias which is aco ern to democrats. we would take solace in the fact that the ig ound thisdn't have an effect on the decision making at the bureau. with respect to the new york officee don't know that's the case. presumably -- >> didn't kelly ann say the case, we don't know if that's the case with peter strzok? >> there's an ongoing investheation on toer the new york field office was leaking to rudy giuliani or the chairman of our committee. that's ongoing. so we don't know the answer yet about whether that ultimately affected the revelatio anthony weiner's laptop e-mails. >> i want to bring up devin nunes, something amazing he admitted to earlier this week. take a listen. >> we had whistle-bwers that came to us in late september of 2016 who talked to us about this laptop sitting up in new york that had additional e-mails on it. >> so good fbi agents brought

this to our attention. but what could we do with it? >> for what it's worth, september 26 of 2016 is when this laptop was discovered. so it doesn't i don't think meet the definition of whistle blowing. he said we in the intelligence committee. were you informed of this whistle blowing? >> no, this is the firstoue have heard it and it's deeply disturbing because if this was shared by new york field agents with devin nunes, was it also shared with rudy giulian or did devin nunes do something which we have seen subsequently which is coordinate with the trump team. was this information share z by the committee with rudy giuliani or shared directly with him? we don't know the answer. but we hope the inspector general will find out. >> do you think peter strzok ould be with the fbi at this point? >> i don't know. i imagine that the office of r professionponsibility will have to make that decision. certainly thtext messages are troubling. the fact they were on work

e-mail, the fact that they wereh comingled -mails discussing business, all that's problematic. again, you know, the ig concluded that none of thisfe ed the decision making but nonetheless, that was completeln propriate. >> the midterm elections are coming up. s an idea there should be pauses when you have high profise investigationthere a point that mueller should publicly pause, continuing the investigation, but not -- you re know, is t a window where he shouldn't issue the report until after the election? >> i think that he's very conscious of not making the same mistake that comey made by having a decision or a public disclosure made close to the election. so i have to think within a suitable period of time before november -- >> august 1? >> i don't know if it's 30 days, 90 days or more. >> it's not october. >> not october. absolutely not october. i think we're likely to see another indictment before that ckwindow. the g and dumping operation wasn't charged in the last indictment. the only reason to exclude that

when it was part of that same overall conspiracy is if that part of the indictment eithe involves u.s. persons o you haven' finished to include the persons. >> there's a compromise piece of immigration legislation, paul ryan, that would include more protection foraca folks. not clear if it will have support on the right because they call it amnesty. can you support this especially if the kids are not separated from the asylum seekers? >> i think whatthe administration is doing is they're using the grief, the tears, the pain of these kids as mortar to build their wall. and it's an effort to extortbi to their liking in the congress. it's -- i think deeply unethical. and by the president's making these provableou falsehoods a what's required the party

adopting that has become the -- tythe gop has become the pf lies. and it's such i think a sad -- >> painting the entire republican party with that? >> i'm saying that republican members of congress -- republican members of congress who will not cidl out the prt for demonstrable falsehoods on a daily basis and often trump at them -- >> mk sanfordid. he'll be on here later. he did and he lost. >> well, this is the problem. esbecause the gop in conhas been -- has become craven enough they'll do anything to maintain the majority, even be complicit ath a president who ignor tears down the rule of law. who repeats falsehood after falsehood. they cannot maintain their inteity as a party if they follow this president. >> all right.av do youa better solution on how to deal with this migrant crisis fromic central am it's now a four-year crisis? >> first of all, i think we end this policy of separating kids

from their parents. and then i think, you know, we have to work with theses countr figure out what we can do to stem the violence back home. what we can do to humanely deal with people who are fleeing because they have no option but to flee. we need to be working with our southern neighbor,mexico, to deal with this crisis. none of this can be resolved by angry tweets or by usingse t families as a leverage. look, you're absolutely right, it's going to be veryto difficu et a comprehensive immigration bill in election year, any year. let's not tear the families apart in the antime. >> shouldn't be part of the immigration -- separatshg them? >> ildn't be. it's just plain wrong and immoral. >> adam schiff, i have to lve it there. ranking democrat on the intelligence committeca democrat frofornia. thank you. when we come back, it's never comfortable to call the president of the united states a liar. liar. but what do you say whe their experience is coveted.

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back nowh the panel. "new york times" columnist bret stephens. nbc news political recorder carol lee and helene cooper. rich card amass. all right. let me put together this list of just outright misstatements or lies. i well, no, there's no trade war. think that the report esterday may be more importantly than than anything totally exonerates me. some people say he lied, maybe he didn't lie. nafort has nothing to do with our campaign. the democrats have to w.ange their that's their law. president obama lost crimea, e st so you understand. >> every single those things is absolutely not true.

the crimea one being the most ridiculous. there's no democratic bill, manafort for three months -- more than almost six months of the caaign. the president himself said michael flynn lied, that's why he fired him. the ig report was of course not about that. bret stephens? it's -- what do you do? >> you have to be a t on mist of falses. ic has been trang in a substance that's identical to my initials. >> your name again is bret . ephe >> right. >> i wanted to clarify. >> i mean, this is a world sort of -- the gray world between clear truths and unmistakable lies. and there's always a q also about the president's state of mind because he says stuff and then often doesn't seem to remember what he had said the day, the hour, the minute before. i still think that you have to hold the president clearly

accotable when he is contradicting information that heas previously pervaded. >>it's funny you say this about the mental capacity. andrew sullivan went there. if someoneve be like this, if someone kept initialing that the sea was red and the sky wasas green i woulme they were a few sandwiches short of a picnic. it's vital to remember this every day, almost no one else in blic life is no openly living in his own world. >> what do you want me to do? that's like -- it's something that at the" e times" we have been wrestling with because we get a lot of letters from readers why don't you call a lie a lie, and we have said lied in the past. but theitxecutive edor of "the times" says we shouldn't use

all the time because it loses the meaning. i can't remember wrest with -- if you keep saying and he's right to a certain extent if you keep saying ,lie, l lie, it loses the impact when it's a whopper. d it's something't have to deal with when it's the president. >> that's the thing. all politicians tell lies. we have experienced this in covering -- >> but there used mob honor among thieves. >> this is a different level. what we struggle with as reporters, it's deliberate. so with president trump you know in order to call it a lie, you have to be able to show that he is deliberately anddo intentionallg that. a lot of times when he's ill informed, misinformed you don't know what his intent is. that adds a whole other dimension we are not used to. but his false statements --g there's noth compare it with.mb the of times. >> after watching what you just played ouhere, the only -- you

only reach one of two conclusions. does he have mental capability issues or he is doing this and if he's doing it chronicall?is it purposef or, you know, just a matter of habit or and --tion? >> it does sound like he's selling a time share all the >>s the point. time. the point politically it's less damaging for him to lie 18 times in one morning than once. because that feature that helps him the most is the numbness. because of the frequency and umlume of these things. theess with the electorate. they have so much to absorb and so little time to do it that they go home half of the time confused rather than convinced that something is amiss here. >> what a greatpoint. u know, barack obama got the quote lie of the year, if youou likehealth care plan, you get to keep it. that was back in 2012 or '13. but you're right.

he didn't seriallys o it. here hnished for one -- the numbness. >> the lies sort of disappear in their own ubiquity. but it's important -- >> right out of the putin playbook. >> right, it's important to pick ccr spots. i remember senatorn said i can't be the car alarm that's always going off. and i think we also have to be careful about -- for our own credibility about being very scrupulous of separating wh are clear lies or seem to be clear lies from misstatements, falsehoods. otherwise, it gives him the opening to call us the fake news media which is what he wants. >> it's possible one of the ha reasons he did crazyress scrum friday is that it's been a bad week legally for the presidtht. this is al developments this week. michael cohen splitting with his legal team. is he going to flip? paul manafort now in jail. is he going to flip? don mcgahn, the white house counsel recused his office from the mueller probe months agono d

the attorney general of new york is suing the trump foundation andef perhapsring a criminal complaint to the irs. this was not a good week legally. >> no,seot at all. yohim latch on to this ig report t argue that he's been vindicated and that, you know, there's bias at the fbi and that all of his -- the whole public campaign that he's been waging against the mueller investigation is valid and that he's ramping that up and so not only he do that scrum on the white house lawn, which by the way, i have never seen a president do. but he also isin laton to that and preparing to really double down on their pushback andffort to undermine the mueller sgletion what you left out from that he had an interview friday morn on the white house lawn with "fox & friends" and he heaped thi praise on kim jong-un and he likes the way that he makes his

people sit up at attention with him and he wishes he could do the same with his people. later on h h saidwas kidding but it's such an extraordinary -- at a time where we have had a year and a half of extraordinary president trump performances, i think friday should be up there. >> here's the thing that is an indicator that's troubling.e there's a lot of talk about what flynn may have done, what manafort may have some people tell me, well, those ared selfish actions ose were horrible, and they're paying a legal price for it. but what's that got to do with president trump other than to say that with people of questionable judgment and moral ilk. but when w we had lak or the week before that admonition by the president himself that he wrote this script for "the new york times" for his onald trump jr. and three times before they lied about it, i say to myself, you know, there's more involvemen eye because with all the ss ff

that he r him personally to do this with his son, he had to have a briefing of what occurred in order to write the thing. now we know of his involvement and inorete way that we didn't know before. >> what was amazmig he almost ed that yes, look, i lied to "the new york times," but so what? you guys are no high tribunal. >> saying it to the new york times. >> no high tribunal -- apparently it's not illegal to lie to the american people. eith when we come back, my wi intervie republican congressman sanford who lost hie primary l because he was willing to criticize president trump's personal conduct. and he ha't six in the morning. she thought it was a fire. it was worse. a sinkhole opened up under our museum. eight priceless corvettes had plunged into it.

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welcome back. congressman mark sanford of south carolina has been tough on fellow publicans who criticized president trump in private but are silent in public. if you want to know why they're silent, he's exhibit "a" because he's soon or the former congressman sanford. he has criticized president trump in public and on tuesday, mr. trump tweeted thelo fng, mark sanford has been very unhelpful in my campaign to maga. guess what happened? sanford lostrihery to arrington. and i sat down with the congressman on friday. i began by asking him if he blames president trump for his defeat. >> plenty of blame to go around, but if you boil it down i wouldn't -- i wasn'en trump gh in the age of trump. yeah, so in that regard, he certainly had a hand in it. ou knew this for a while though. you saw this upfront.

when did it dawn on you, boy, this is a tide you won't be able to defeat? >> my boysth have been sayin for a while. you begin to feel certain things, butat the end of the day in this process you have to be you. so i had spoken out as i hto with regarhe president. and it cost me. so the commercials by the opponents were a greatest hits of what i said about the president over the last year and half. if you look from the policy standpoint i was supportive. this is not about policy, but it was about personal loyalty. >>la let me what your colleagues said to your loss. i >> when you'ren primary season, again, it's usually a good thing not to be at odds with the most important elected official in your party. >> if you're not on the same page as the president, in 85, % of your base is that can cause a problem. >> you have to be critical and add value and, you know, my view

is that i gue d peopn't see the value. >> i know how close you and lindsey graham are. i think he's the god father to one of your sons. i haveic n he's changed his style of late. it's -- you didn't. what did you make of that reaction? >> people are scared of getting bad news from the president. they'll say what they want to say. the number of people who will say privately to you, this sz a tribalhave ever seen it in my life, but in public will say thesa things you on air. it's remarkable. that's been the case since the election, but even before where i legitimately disagreed with the president. based on stands i held for 2 years of my life. >> what's conservative -- do yru think donald -- is the definition of conservative changed inside the republican party? >> i think we have to do a whole lot of sole searching as a it was a narrow victory back home.

it was 3,000 votes one way or another. >> 00 votes for a runoff. >> correct. but what was interesting is the number ofho people said, look, nt something between -- halfway crazy and socialist. what's happened to our party? i hear that over and over again. >> what's your explanation? >> well, legimately, the trum phenomenon was caused by people who wanted to see a change in washington works and that's real and it needs to be acknowledged but it has morphed or metastasized into something that is quite different about this larger loyalty to the president himself. and so have i been loyal to -- you know, the conservative cause, yeah, i have every merit badge on the front. >> bob corker said this. it's becoming a cultish thing. isn't it? it's not a good place for any party to end one a cult-like situatioas it relates to the president that happens to be purportedly of the same party. would you use that word? >> i wouldn't go so far as cult. but i wouljust say that from an electoral sense people are

running for because they don't want to be on e losing si of the presidential tweet. from a populist standpoint it's almost a philistine bargain, i'll pander to you if you band tore me and that exchange is very -- it's dangerous really with regard to the -- again, to what the founding father set up which is a system designed to garner debate and dissent. the idea that you can't speak out and issay, iree with you here, but i agree with you on 90% ofhe stuf is again a twilight world seen. e never >> what about this issue that literally the president can say whatever hwants, fa free, mischaracterize the friday morning spectacle was someing to behol you -- like i said, you have been troubled by his issues with the truth.ou you have been ed by some of the things he's done withrcaw enent. but speaking out cost you yourp tical career. jeff flake, cost his political career.

these -- you guys are very like mindedni libertarian l conservatives. what does say that? >> well, we have gone from is george washington, i can't tell a lie back down at the apple tree, to so replete and nobody questions him anymore. that's a dangerous spot to be in a reason based republic. i have a unique vantage point on this front. we all know the story of 2009 and my implosion. >> yes. >> a lie was told on my behalf which means i own it. more to the point i was living a lie in that chapr of lies but there were incredible consequences. financially, politically, socially, i lost -- i can go down a long is list. >> you paid a ic >> right. so maybe the reason i'm so outspoken on this now is there is no seeming consequence to the president and lies. and if we accept that as a society, it is going to have incredibly harmful consequences

in the way that we operate going forward, based on the construct the founding fathers. >> why is it just you and jeffbo flake an corker? where's speaker ryan? where's the head of the legislative branch? >> people are running for the n,hills. agverybody -- at you do as an elected official is an ti al -- old time senator said the name of the game is to stay out of the game. >> so you compartmentalize? >> you compartmentalize. i saw a thing with kevin mccart talking about how the president was a genius with regard to trade and you're going oh, my goodness. tariffs are taxes. and yet, somehow we're going to rationalize at a republican party leadership level what the president is proposing with regard to, you know, using section 232, go down the list is somehow okay with what the republican party has historically stood for with regard to engement or trade? i mean, i could comeup with a long list of things that people

rationalized but they do it because they want to stay in the game. >> you want to take the issues national in 2020 and debate the president about the direction of the party? >> no, i'm just trying to sort out the last 48 hours of my life. if y have -- i never lost an election before. so this is new territory. there's some real soul searching that goes with it. i have had a couple of different chapters of life that have caused intense soul searching and this is one of them. >> when we come back, a lot o voters don't like eithe once there was an organism so small no one thought much of it at all. people said it just made a messn l exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldn't thabe cool? and that's why exxonmobil scientists think it's not small atll. energy lives here.

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the result -- in 2010eroters thatdissatisfied with both parties favored the republicans by 26points. now, these dissatisfied vots favor democrats by 40 points more. among those voters who don't like eitherparty. keep in mind, these are the throw the bums out voters. they rarely vote for ter party in p when we come back, end game and wh to do about those kids separated from their parents at the border. coming up, end game, b i feel a great deal of urgency... i think, keep going, and make a difference. at some point, we are going to be able to beat als. because life is amazing. so i am hoping for a cure. i want this, to uh, to be a reality. um, yeah.

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attorney general on hughle 's radio show explaining the policyhey have instituted. >> every time somebody gets prosecuted in america for a crime, american citizens, and they go to jail they're separated fr their children. don't want to do this at all. if pple don't want to be separated from their children, itey should not bring them them. >> al? >> yep. separation anxiety. 'm a refugee, i came to america. i experienced it. the pain, the heart break of child about that experience will never go away in their lifetime. and to justify that by saying that -- to have a clean bed and food is -- it's such a cruel mment regarding what's going on with the children and their parents. i will debunk two my lies from the white house right now. number one, things are not the same as before in two areas.

number one, resettlement.fugee before this white house changed the rules, they would be the ones that would then take the children, they would interview the children -- mostly had relatives here, mos undocumented and they would turn the children over the relatives. the president of the united states changed it and gave i.c.e. the jurisdiction that the office of resettlement for decades has had. so what does i.c.e. do? you come to interview to take the child they deport you and the child remains alone so relatives are not claiming the children. all of that is because of this policy. the second policy that's really all here, the presidenorhas total auy to deal with the separation of children. so all of those arguments are fell lay shouse. in the meantime, we have had 2,000 children sent spraited in a few weeks. that's wrong. this thing needs to get fixed. i don't care -- you know just

listening toelanne, when it comes to human tragedy, call a time-out for a week and get something done. >> helene, do you think that anonymous white house staffer will get -- be as ha treated privately as she promised publicly? >> of course not. it was a hard interview you just conducted with kellyanne conwa-- because she't was just one ing point after another. of course, my heart bleeds for these children being torn, you know, from their parents. i'a mother, but at the end of the day, this is what the administration has chosen to do. what jeff sessions said to hugh hewitt was preposterous as well. he is saying that comparing it to a criminal matter which means he is saying that it is -- they're treating it as if it's a crime to ask for political asylum in the united states. that's ridiculous comparison. >> look, it's a cyster class in

cism which is in turn born of a philosophy that streets peoplecooming to thistry as criminals and as liabilities. you heard it in the president's comments about people from s-hole countries. you heard it in previous jeff sessions' comments about why do we need these people who are -- >> john kelly said they struggled to assimilate. >> there are two refugees at this table, i'm a son of a refugeandwe're living the american dream and we're evidence that an at immin-based culture is also a success culture. you generally actually judge the success of societies by how many people want to come to them. not how ny people want to flee them. one quick point. ga merkel, the germans have worked hard with turkey and other countries to make sure that the refugee crisis stays outside of the borders, with some success. some failures. we could do that with their -- there areti os other than a cruel and unusual punishment, recalling almost -- almost recalling i should say japanese internment.

>> carol, last point. >> well, this is a problem that the president created easily as you pointed out in the interview with kellyanne, he could undo, over to congres you see the evangelical republicans say this is not a good policy and put pressure on rye white house, yet, you know, the president isg to have it both ways where he's playing saying this nd isn't my fault. >> sadly, i have to end the conversation there. you guys can keep it going. before i go, i want toou ae the return of the "meet the press" film festal forts the second annual film festival. it will take place this october right here in washington. to learn more go to nbcnews.com/mtp film. may you want to submit a doc for ou estival. that's all for today. thanks for watching. happy father's day to all theth dads oute. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday it's "meet the press."

it's father's day, dammit. and you have a right to talk to your children. and you don't eyon know where children are. >> the battle over splitting families has the first lady weighing in ashe president faces what might be his toughest domestic challenge yet. n details surrounding late night new jersey shooting at an arts festival. >> it was like pow pow pow pow pow pow! two or three people went down 20 feet from me. >> a deadly earthque strikes japan. the hundreds injured and the death toll rising. late details ahead. then to a weekend of world cup soccer excitement and a a ret theindy