here's to one summer fling you'll want again and again. ♪ this sunday, holding court. anthony kennedy steps down from the supreme court. president trump isy. re >> we have a very excellent list of great talented highly educated,ighly intelligent, hopefull tremendous people. >> the makings of a conservative court with little chance t stop >> women's access to safe, legar abon, on the line. >> they want republicans to delay the vote again until aftee election. >> our republican colleagues in the senate should follow the rule they set in 2016. >> but republican leader, mitch mcconnell says, not this time. >> we will vote to confirm justice kennedy's s tcessors fall. >> can democrats stop president trump or will he shape the court for a generation?

my guest this morning, republican senator lindsey graham, and democratisenator, maria cantwell. apl toped house leader, a sign of a changingoc demratic party. al al alexandria ocasio-cortez is here this morning. and president trump says theris no longer a threat from north korea, but north korea is increasing its production of nuclear fuel post-summit. is the u.s. being deceived agair by another korean leader? joining me for analysis is halle jackn, democratic pollster, cornellbelcher, and kimberly atkins.we ome to sunday. it's "meet the press."

good sunday morning. happyjuly. the announced retirement of st supreme court e ant ahony kennedy this week helps make one political reality clear. president trump is winning, and the democrats right now are reeling. the supreme court, mr. trump is about to shape the court for a generation by choosing a possible tie-breaking conservative justice, and he has already filled the lower courts with like-minde conservatives. how about the republican party? the president's approval rating amongepublicans is around 90%. elected republicans fear criticizing him, and the party has become a cult of s. personality, how about fake news? mr. trump has turned that phrase, which initially referred to the phony russia generation to support his story, to t discre reporting. if we fthfully fact check the president, we risk being

considered biasedei er way, mr. trump wins. the mueller investigation. the president has succeeded in convincing millions that the investigation is biased, despite trafficking an innuendo without evidence. the economy isoing well, but it was doing well before he took office.me with unempl doing well, and much of trump's success is superficial. while he is more popular among republicans, the party overall is shrinking. his tradwar, and north korea, all could turn against him. if the democrats' reaction this week to the kennedy re rement provything, it's that the democratic party has not figured out how to succeed in the trump era. >> you know, we democrats are a big tent. >> reporter: the supreme court fight has exposed the party in opposition to the prident, but divided over goals, messaging and tactics. >> tnk we will have a plan

and it will be announced b the democrat leader at an appropriate time. >> reporter: but it's what that plan is. democrats with 20/20 ambitions, eager to win progressive support, are promising the base of fight. don't tell me that this battle is one that's already lost. i do not believe that. >> this is fight that is born out of love of country, and et're not going to l anyone take our flag. we will fight today. we will fight tomorrow. >> reporter: but the senate's democratic lders are reluctant to give them that fight. >> the notion that we can stop them with 49 votes is just not in the cards. >> reporter: minority leader chuck schumer is stuck on a procedural argument. in 2016, democrats ridiculed senator mitch mcconnell's maneuver to deny obama appointee, merrigarland, a vote before the election. now they are adopting the same argument. >> our republica colleagues in the senate should follow the rule they set in 2016, not to

consider a supreme court justice in an election year. >>il mean three red state democrats who voted for neil f gorsuch are u election in nd they r. trump won, met with the president this week. i had a great conversation. >> reporter: in a house, defeat of joe crowley by a rising star, no obvious ts with heir to nancy pelosi, and the calls for pelosi to step aside for a new generation of leaders have grown louder. quizzed on that point, pelosi fought back. >> what's your problem. >> reporter: the stakes for democrats could not be higher kennedy's retirement sets in motion the biggest change on the century. half a >> almost without exception, if it was a critical, ideological, hot button issue, it was up to him. >> reporter: the trump travel ban being voted on this week, here he sided with the court's

conservatives, to even same-sex and abortion, where he sidedco with thet's liberals. trump said he won't ask they would n how vote. >> people say, you don't do that d you shouldn that, but i'm putting conservative people on. >> reporter: when he was asked whether he'll ask the court to overturn roe -- >> that will happen immediately because i'm putting pro-lifee justices on court. >> joining me is maria cantwell, and lindsey graham of south carolina. we'll begin now with senator i cantwell o washington state. welcome back to "meet the press". >> good morning. >> let me start with the basic question here. help me out. where do you sit? it feels as if senate democrats in general, have all sorts of ideas on how to handle this supreme court fight. what is yours? >> well, this is a very differen supreme court discussion because everyone in

the united states senate who is going to votehin knows that it will change the balance of power. you're not just voting onyo whethethink trump should have his nominee. you're voting on whether that nominee is going to change precedent when it comes t whole host of issues of the women's right to choose, your access to health care, whether asthma.ave diabetes or all of a sudden, a preexisting condition is no longer allowedo and you haveay more for insurance. so i think that molagues on both sides of the aisle know that this vote could be a -- one of the key votes of their entire career, and they knowhat no matter what comes out of the white house, if they vote for somebody who is going to change precedent, it could be a career-ending move. >> okay. that's fine to say that in the aftermath, but theeumbers are numbers right? wehe know what numbers are in

the senate, and their majority decides this. it sounds like you want to defeat this nominee for sure or inspire president trump to pick a moderate? >> i would love for. president trump to pick someone o shows the views. we have an independent judiciary in tines ofic intense pol debate. we have a judiciary that will uphold the law is what's so great about our country. if he wants to throw an extreme conservative who basicays i'm not going to follow precedent and follow these lawsh yes. that, to me, is a major change d something the president should be sitting down with moderates on that advise andns t and say, what would be good for america? >> but the reality is i think we know where this is headedn a partisan scale considering the president is only looking at

nominees pre-vettedy the federal society. so we know he is going to pick some more of a traditional conservative. so i ask you. how do docrats then -- can you defeat this nominee if it comes from that? e you hoping to woo senators murkowski and collins? is that the plan here? >> well, the plan here is to speak out about the change in balance in the courts. you are not just voting as was with gorsuch for one more knnam. yo that justice kennedy was a swing vote and he was a libertarian, and sometimes he sided with the conservative stices and sometimes he upheld important issues on marriage equality, ande issues on environment. my colleagues in moderate states whether that's democrat or republican, you have to decide, am i voting for a justice that's going to h td up clean air act or the clean air act? am i voting for a justice that

is really going to hold up roe v. wade or women's rights to have the freedom to do what she wants with her body? these areissues. it won't be about what they say. it will be about whether you really believe that justice given what the presi has said he is willing to nominate. he is going to be very -- >> i understand that, but there are some democratic activists who think you willtiave a confir hearing and you won't do whatever it takes to stop any justice that the president nominates if it does come from a conservativeer there was one person quoted -- in the "new quote york times" saying they would likeo see civil disto beobedien in the senate. >> i would love f that to get attention, but i'm anxious so hear whatever this nominee has to say. ishe president able to pardon himself? do you believe in the emoluments

clause? that if there is a conflict of e interest, thedent shouldn't be able to participate. i want to know what he th tks abou process of how far the mueller investigation needs to go, and will they fight to protect that? i'm interested in hearing what kind of nominee is going to be on the bench and if the president is under indictment, what is that nominee going to do about that so these are monumental questions, and this is a person who wants 40 years on the court or probably 40 years. i want at least 40 minutes to hear what they have to say about these important issues. >> so you would have an easier time i think getting your moderate if the rules of the senate hadn't been changed. i'll play for you a remark that mitch mcconnell made in 2013 when harry reid changed the rules for lower court nominations. here's what he said. >> my friends on the other side of the aisle, you will regret

this, and you may regret it a lot sooner than you think. >> do you regret it? well, we're dealing with what we're dealing with toda and i doubt that whatever the were stances of the rules then or now, that they would be precedin on this with 51 votes. the issue is there are so many things before the american peopleand this position will change the balance of the court. the president has the right ton no somebody as he said. >> but senator, you had an attempt -- you want to just ignore that. i disagree with you. you want to ignore that path. that is why we are in this situation now where a bare majority decides to future the court. dealing with e're today, and i'm not ignoring it. i have been around my state this weekend, and people are anxious about health care. they are anxious about the tention of people who are seeking asylum in the united states. they want to know what is going

to happen withs t court nominee. they are so anxious that the rights bestowed upon americans will be rolled back. they want to know what we're going to do about it, and what i nt to make perfectly clear is that this is not aorl supreme court justice vote. you know for sure that your vote is changing thela e, and i want all my colleagues to have theo time take that is not a rushed process to kno whether th nominee is going to uphold those american rights or not. that is what we deserve to tow. >> what definition of a rushed process? do you think this should be delayed until after the election or we should know before the w electire people stand on this? >> well, i am sure that the president is in a hurry because he has already said he is going to make a decision by july 9 poith. >> right.t >> and wwould say about the advise and consent role, i would sit down with the moderates and say, what kind of justice do we need in the united states with this process to make

sure that basic rights are upheld? >> do you want it delaoid? >> they're to skip that. >> do you want it delayed until after the election or not? >> well, i would love that because iant to make sure that we have enough time and that the issues are discussed a that we have our rights first. that's what i would like. >> a right. nator cantwell, i have to ngave it there. thank you for con and sharing your views. i appreciate it. >> thank you. >> yesterday, i spoke with senator lindsey graham when he was in turkey in the middle east, and began asking him what kind of supreme court justice he is looking for. a strict constructionist like anthony scalia, o jn roberts libertarianore of a a centerist like anthony kevaedy? >> consve, not crazy. a solid, john roberts type self. i'm not picking. president trump ran on the idea of what he would pick, a conservative judge, and he gave us a list. i would expect the name would come from that list. the people on that are kwiely qualified.

>> what will come up at the confirmation hearing is the issue of abortion. overturning roe v. wade was said to happen autoically because his pick for the supreme court would all be pro-life. do you view that connection as automatic? that means you'rg for overturne v. wade and that should be how the publicum a when they hear of a supreme court justice a potential being pro-life? >> well, i'm pro-life and the job of a judge is to decide cases before the cot, but one of the concepts that means a lot in america is you't dverturn precedent unless there is a good reason, and i would tell my pro-life friends, you can be pro-life and conservative, and alsoelieve in roe v. wadend it has been affirmed over the

i would hope the justice that sits on the court, all of them would listen to the arguments on both sides before they decide it, but this is a well known concept in our law. >> that's important t you. are you going to vote for somebody that doesn't believe in that? >> i won't believe in anybody that tells m d they willide a case before the facts are presented to them. i don't expect a judge to say, i will overturn roe v. wade or not listen to an argument about abortion. i have a bill that says a baby can feel pain at 20 weeks ring the birthing process, 20 weeks pos-conception and there state interest to protect the child from a abortion. that's a nfl issue that has never been decided under roe.op i the justices -- this one and all of them, will listen to the aren'guments before they decide. >> the president may haveth to rule o issues having to do with the mueller investigation, and neil gorsuch didn't come up. he came up before there was a

robert mueller special counsel. now he exists. do you believe this nominee needs to commit to recusing hip or herself or anything having to do with the mueller probe direly if it makes its way to the supreme court? espeally one h said flatout they don't believe a president should be susceptible to a lawsuit while in office. >> i was a lawyer before i was a politician. to recuse yourself is proper in someca s. elena kagan rused herself from cases and you can't review your own homework, but the idea that you can't judge somebody who icks you is probably not a ground forrecusal. you have to show there is a connection between the case at hand andct theity of the judge. it makes perfect sense to me that jeff sessions can't oversee an investigation of the campaign he was apart of, but i wouldn't have a broad rule that you t, caou know, review anything against president trump because he chose you. >> there may be instanceshthere

you m think a recusal is appropriate under having to dow this investigation? >> yes. >> so where would that line -- >> it depends what the facts are. i don't know. i don't know who he is g ng to pick, and, you know, i think whoever he will pick will be asked about the connectio to the trump campaign, pending litigation, a conflicts of interest. a conflict of interest in the law is different than just, you know, again, you can'tud anything trump did because he chose you. that's not a conflict of interest under the law. we'll see where this goes. >> we'll move to your topic, foreign policy. i'll get you startedko with nor a. we'll hear from nbc reporting u.s. intelligence agencies beeve that the north korean regime is cheating on the commitment kim jong-un made to president trump, and they have apparently stepped up production of enriched uranium. is thiseaalready headed to

failu failure? >> that's a good question, chuck. y if it is true, te saying one thing and doing another. nobody should be surprised, but here's what i would tell north korea. there isoro place donald trump to kick the can down the road. you met with him in person. i offering you a deal of a lifetime. i would take it. >> but senator, as you can tell, the president already knows this information. we have learned it and he has been told this information. does it concern you he has yet to act or for instance he hasn't said, the exercises with south koreare back on? >> i just know what i read and back.ollow up when i get it would concern me a lot if they are expanding the nuclear program as they meet wh the president. i don't want a war with north korea. it would be devastating. a lot of people would be killed and hurt. >> let me move to another summit that's coming up. you were very skeptical when president obama in 2015 was about to meet with president putin. you were worried, no. he is going to get walked all

over, and president obama was there to confront him about ea and confront him abou some of these things. i have to ask you. president trump is already hinting he is ready to get out of syria, thate is ready to hand them crimea. how much concern do you sve about t summit? >> i'm glad he is meeting, but i have a lot. 's not obama's fault that crimea was taken by russia. it's russia's fault. t it's up president trump that we don't give russia iran and syria. i'm in turkey today. msis is a strategic ally, and we have many prob but they look at us as an unreliable ally. we have isis in a good spot, but people are worried about leaving syria and giving it to the iranians and the russians. so i'moncerned by wha hear. i'm concerned when the president tweets, you know, russia denies theyeddled in our election when they say they didn't

lddle. they ang, so i'm glad the president is going to confront putin, show him the evidence you have mt, president. it's overwhelming. >> you actually thinkll hhow him the evidence? again, the president is out there tweeting that he believes the you actually expect him to present the evidence that we have that is, like, you don't have it? >> well, here's what i would say. in many ways, this administration has been tough on russia. we have armed the ukraine. we have imposed sanctions. we have kicked out diplomats, t the idea that russia did not meddle in our election is fake news. they did meddle in our election and they are doing it again in 2018. >> one of the messages you have -- you regularly have brought back frostthe middle uring the obama era was you were concerned that you would say that ou allies in the middle east for instance, they don't know if they can count on the united states. can our allies in europe count on the united states right now? >> yeah. congress is firmly in europe's . ca i think the president is trying to get nato nations to contribute more, but there io

serious effort to get out of nato. i think the presisnt appreciahe alliance. i can't -- i'm not going to be this show and tell you what he should say or not say. 'm going to judge him by what he does. i like some of the things he has done against russia, but the idea thathere is doubt of meddling in our election is not helpful as all.in le syria means isis will come back. the only thing i can tell esident trump for sure is if you leave syria without thinking about the conditions on the ground being the reason that you leave, isis will leave, and if you come back a time soon, you're giving demascus to thens iran everything you said about obama and iraq, you're going to do in syria. please don't do that. >> by the y, senator graham shared with me this is his first trip to the middle east without his normal traveling companion, john mccain. he said hele and his cue were going to go out to his favorite hotel barast night and toast him.

you can see the entire on meetthepress.com. the panel is next. o be as going to be a huge thank you is what we say. but we mean so much more. we mean how can we help? we mean what can we do? we mean it's our turn. to do our part. to serve you, for all you've done to serve us. ♪ ♪ hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean. we're the most isolated population on the planet. ♪ waii is the first state the u. to have 100% renewable energy goal. we're a very small electric utility.t, f we don't make this move

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and that's why exxonmobil scientists thi it's not small at all. energy lives here. welcome ck. the pa is here. democratic pollster cornell belcher. hallie jac and david brody.kins all right. david, i want to start with you. this is whatichael gerson wrote. as a political matter, however, the fight over kennedy'st replacem a gift to the president. it is a reminder of trump's adherence he made with evangelicalti chrs and other religiously conservative supporters. ignore my bad behavior. all the kingdoms will be yours. pretty rough way to describe it. michael gerson's beenritical of evangelicals and their sort of blind support for

trump over character but is he right? >> well, he's right to a degree and the degree is this. this licals voted for president predominately, especially ones on the fence. not the ones in alaba t at rallies, but the ones that came with their nose held to a degree. they voted for him for the supreme court. here we are. many evangelicals iselieve, thi shocking to folks, but they believe he is god's chosen caidate for such a time like this. this is the word on the street in the evangelical wld. along comes a second supreme court nomination. they're like, well, here you go. we as in evangelicals chance to shape this court for a long time. i think it will be intereserng in of reshaping the court murkowski and collins. evouybody talks the big supreme court fight to come. i think the fight is right now. how is this canditote going be defined in terms of trump's mind. how much murkowski and colins and others. >> it is interesting, we did research on abortion among republican senators when kennedy was confirmed in 1988 to today.

in 1988, ten republican senators cornell, called themselves pro-choice when kennedy was confirmed. today it's two. do you buy the idea that this will be the be all end all on roe? >> it is, you know, the dog catching the car. look, be careful what you ask for. i've spent some time in focus oups across the country the last two weeks, right? democrats will likely lose this battle, right, because like you said the numbers just aren't there. there are only so many tactics you can take. elections have consequences. chuck, i've been looking at gallup data ver the lao decades and nowhere in this gallup data do i show anywhere approaching a majority of that abortion should be illegal. and god help these old men if they tick off these suburban women who have nevereally thought that their reproductive rights were at risk and all of a sudden for -- it's at risk and it's real.

>> i thought lindsey graham as trying to send a message to the president when he said, precedent matters. >> settled law. right. >> lindsey's way of saying -- he didn't want the headline "lindsey graham supports roe v. wade" so he started speaking in latin. political latin. i think lindsey graham agrees with cornell. be careful here. >> the president cfirmed it on friday he is not going to specifically ask where she's candidates are. he doesn't have to. they wouldn't be on the list if you didn't already know where they stood on that particular issue. one way that i have heard that people close to the president are trying t a inoculainst some of that is push him towards picking a woman. the president has said he's leaning towards selecting twoo women are on the short list of maybe five to seven. incling amy barrett. as one person put it to me last night, she wa dinged by dianne feinstein in her confirmation

hearing for the circuit judgeship. there is a calculation that some people close to the president are making. i've also heard the president himself said essentially i'm not going to think about gender politics. i wantic to the best candidate. if that's a man, it's a man. >> kimberly, she getting to something i think both sides are torn on this. do they want the fig or not? i don't know. i think it's a worthy fig. i'm not sure that democrats want the fight because if you have the fight too harshly, blow the democratic red state senators, right? >> republicans aren't sure they need the fight. they thinkhey've already it. the point that cornell made aside that this could backfire in the polls, i think they already think that they won it. for democrats the fight was in 2016. they missed the fight. that is when thereas a supreme court justice being held up. maybe because merrick garland wasn't the progressive fire brand that stirred them up or they missed a pathologist to

donald trump 270, they didn't fight that fight now. now it's toond late they can only message the way we saw senator cantwell do as best she could, but that's all that democratsri havt now. >> something that strikes me so much, especially someone who covered the campaign inlo 2016. yo at the exit pollata and how much that supreme court opening was such an issue for the republicans. >> it was 1 in 5 voters said the court was number one issue. take a look at what the percentage was. among those voters, 56% were trump voters and only 41% where clinton voters. >> that's the problem that democrats have now. you ha group like demand justice that are mobilizing now because all of a sudden they see that t supreme court is in fact, important. you're going to see that number grow for democrats. >> nowhat there is nothing emthat therats can do to stop it. well, look, you were talking about the support of evangelicals, donald trump is term limited. they have him at most for eight

years. not he supreme court but the federal judiciary. it will take a full generation n around the court that the judiciary that's being shted so far to the right -- >> and that's why this is a 40-year decision, is what we're talking about here. i would also say this, very important, amy barrett, as you mentioned. evangelical sources tell me that's the number one pi for them, for sure. amy barrett. beyond that, we know donald trump likes optics. could you imagine roe v. wade, nswhatever it hapo be, five men on 5-4 de wisions,ether it's roe v. wade or something along those lines. it's an optics thing and it bodes well for the president if hecares ab optics, and he does, to go with a woman here. >> when he was sele cabinet, there was a lot of talk about optics, would he pick mor malendidates or female candidates. this is a prident who doesn't like to be told how the optics make him look. he will assess but i'm not sure

that is the top motivating factor for him. >> there is a political calculation here. midterms coming up. hey, i picked a supreme court nominee who is a woman. listen to the fake news media saying i'm anti-woman. fake news. think it plays for his base. >> i have to leave it there. but we'll pick up the conversation in a little bit. when we come back, though, meet the woman who may represent the changing face of the democratic party, alexandria ocasio-cortez. we started making wine8. in 1 [sfx: bottle sounds on conveyor] one bottle at a time. 20 million cases a year. chubb has helped us grow for the past 30 years... they helped us prevent equipment problems du harvest and provided guidance when we started exporting internationally. now we're working with them on cybrity. my grandfather taught me to make a wine that over delivers. chubb, over delivers.

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nextera energy. welcome back. that sound you may have heard on tuesday night was the sound of a political nrthquake in york city that was really felt more so in washington. alexandria ocasio-cortez, a 28-year-old political neo fight seems to come out of nowre to defeat joe crowley. he was not just anyone, he's currently the fourth ranking democrat in the house, the party boss of queens and seen by many as the next speaker of the house if the democrats wo the majority. well, no more. a giant win for the progressive wing of the party. but cs mylleague steve kornacki put it, as shocking as her victory was, the more you look at the changing face of the

democratic party, the more you wonder w didn't all of us see this coming? well, alexandria ocasiez joins me now. congratulations. >> thank you. thank you for hav'rg me. >> ynot a congresswoman-elect yet, you have a general election but it is a pretty strongly democratic seat. let me first start with something that nancy pelosi said about your victory earlier this takelisten. week. >> they made a choice in one district. so let's notet yourself carried away as an expert on dem grams and all that within the caucus or catside the cus. it is not to be viewedso as thing that stands for everything else. >> she was a bit defensive. a lot of people coming at her saying your victory means a lot morehan just arimary win in the bronx. how did you react to that? >> well, i think that there are a lot ofdistricts in this country that are like new york 14, you know, with -- that have changed a lot in the last 20 yearwhande representation has not. and it's not to say whether

someone shou be voted out or voted in, but i think it definitely speaks to us perhaps evolving in our messaging in at least how we do things. so i think that, you know, i do think that there are a lot of districts in america that are like new yo14. >> i'm curious, if joe crowley re thinkingou w about running and called you up and said, what am i doing wrong, you know, what would you like to see from me, what would you like see me do to make you say, you know what, i'll stand this cycle and see what you do? >> whatould i say t that? >> what would you say to m if he asked to advice on how to win your vote before you decided to run against him? >> i the problem is that that never happened. the fact that that is not erppening. >> meaning you naw him in your mind? that the district never saw him, is that what you're >> well, i think -- without going too hard, you know, the alngressman has had phenom service in our community. i think there was certainly a lack of presence. that was a big partf my win.

it was -- there was, i think, a lack of listening on the ground, the lack of going to the grocery store and ying, hey, how are you doing? that is an important part of ause we have a b lot of work we have to do here in d.c., but that work needs to be rooted in iee commun that we have been elected to represent. >> some of your energy and some of the energy behind you and me of the energy behind other progressives has to do with almost the tone and tactics of the democratic leadership. i'm curious, what was yourti re to senator cantwell arlier today and how she described how she would like to ight on the supreme cou opening? >> well, i think that what's going on is that there --al espe with the supreme court we have senators and folks trying to figure out the strategy, but in the meantime, the messaging isn't as clear to the communities that we're trying to represent. are we fighting or not? and i still don'ta have quit -- >> what do you want to see? >> you know, for me, im a

fighter. i'm always one for a fight. especially when we see wat the gop has done. i feel like they're kind of gaslighting the country. when they want to fight, when th want to bend and break the rules and stretch the constitution to its limits, they'll do it, but when they're on the other side of the table it's, whoa,. decor >> do you want democrats to borrow some of those tactics? >> well -- >> because that's they game here, right? >> yeah. >> which is, you kn t, do wrongs make a right. >> i do see the point you're making, the consisncy poin i think from my point of view, i look at it more like soccer. what are our positions right prw? this se court seat is extremely serious. we have a president. there is aederal investigation going on with direct implications to the presidency and that presidency is talking about nominating a supreme court pick that is going to essentially hear this case out. this is a very unusual time in the country. when is the last that a president has been in this

position. >> so what do you want senate democrats to do that you didn't hear from senator cantwell this morning? >> i would like the senate to delay,bsolutely. we need to delay until after the midterm elections. that's my personal opik on. and i that at the very least we need to -- if we are going to -- if is appointment is going to happen at the very least we can do is delay the time ne in whicwomen's health care is going to be taken away, delay the timeline in which our civil rights could potentially be furdeer er >> let me talk about some of your policy positions but generally. first explain this to me. you were endorsed by a roup, e democratic socialists. you have embraced this label. "the new york times" has a headline this morning "millennials embracesm socia what is your definition of democratic socialist? >> well, for me,again there is so much focus on this endorsement, but i also think it's iortant -- an important part of my strategy in winning was building a broad basedof coalitiopeople. so while there is a focus on this one aspect of the

coalition, and to me, you know, to answer your question, the definition of democratic socialism, to me, again, that in a modern, mor and wealthy society, no american should be too poor toive. that means every working class american in this country should have access to dignified healt. ca should actually be able to go see a doctor without going broke. you should beo able send your kids to college and trade school if they so choose. nobody should feel precarious or instable in their access to housing. >> some demrats are afraid of the "s" word. older americans hear socialism and they tie it to ugly governments from europe and the past. yeah. >> do you -- how do you -- howe do you this to an older generation? >> well, i think, you know, as the clip from schumer showed earlier, democrats are a big tent party. i'm not trying to impose an idealogy on all several hundred members of congress, but i do

think that, once ain, it's not about selling an ism or an ideology or a color, it's about selling our values. >> are you a democratic hacialist? is thatt you call yourself or you don't want that label? >> i mean, it's part of what i 's not all of what i am. i think that's a very important distinction. i'm an educator. i'm an organizer. and i believe that what we're really seeing is just a movement for health care, housing and education in the united states. >> all right. you defeated a potential future speaker. should nancy pelosi be that next speaker of the house or should it be a new >> you know, once again, i want to see the options on the table. efirst of all, i'm notn an elected member of congress yet. secondly, we need to see what is going on. think that it's just pmature for me to commit to any kind of decision on this. i was just elected on tuesday >> fair enough. i'm going to leave it there. again,dria ocasio-cortez, congratulations on your primary victory. i imagine we will see you back here again.

>> of course. thank you so much. >> thank you. alen right. we come back, why ocasio-cortez's victory may more of a progressive outlier than a trend this primary season. as we go to break, we want to remember the five staff members who died in thursday's mass shooting at the "capital gazette" newspaper close to us here in annapolis, maryland.

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nextera energy. welcome back. data download time. alexandria ocasio- trtez's win sday gave a lot of hope for progressives trying to remake the democratic party, but you look at the total landscape, this story is a little different. athis point in the primary season, of the 33 house candidates endorsed t by bernie sanders group our revolution, 14 have won their imaries while 19 have host to the so-called establishment wing of the democratic party. an upstart winning 42% of its races, that's actually not bad. however, what happens when you the a closer look at

districts where the bernie wing is actually winning? only one ofho 14 race is rated conservative by our friends at the cook political report. each then the republican candidate is favored to win. the majority ohe bernie wins are coming in safe republican districts like georgia's first and a few are in safe democratic districts where the democrat would win regardless of who won the nominatica. think ofo-cortez and new york's 14th, for instance. in other words, these are n districts where control of congress is being decided and not a way to prove that the movement can win over middle of the road voters in swing hadistricts. soabout the districts where the democratic establishment is carrying the day? well guess what, of the 19 districts where establishment candidates have prevailed over surrogate progressives, 11 are rated competitive by cook. these are so of the races democrats have to win if they tring to take c of the house in november. g of the e sanders w party having an impact on the democratic party and itsti po? sure.

progressive candidates in safe districts like ocasio-cortez will likely be serving in congress this time next yea and wins do equal momentum for the movement. the le's success is also certainly being overhyped and x echo chamber is helping that cause as well. th want to claim to moderate voters, hey, look, the far-left is taking over the democrapac y. in places that actually matter in 2018, it's actually been a good year for td so-cal democratic establishment. when we come back, end game and the nationwide protests over immigration. immigration. how each party sees the ♪ hawaii is in the middle of the pacific ocean. we're the most isolated population on the planet. ♪ hawaii is the first state in the u.s. to have 100% renewable energy goal. we're a very small electric utility. but, if we don't make this move we're going to have changes in our environment, and have a negative impact to hawaii's economy. ♪

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back now with end game and the debate over immigrfion. hundreds thousands of people in cities across the country turned out to against the trump administration's zero tolerance policy, especially the separation of children from their parents at the border. of course the immigration issue is one that both political parties see as a potential advantage fo them. the question is, is it for the democrats heading into 2020 or november and what about the republicans? so let's talk about thi cornell, i want to talk about this movement to get rid of i.c.e. and what this means. here is what the president claims that it means. this is what he said today. i think we he that on tape.

>> i hope they keep thinking about it because they're going to get beaten so badly. you get rid of i.c.e., you're going to have a country that you're going to beid afo walk out of your house. i love that issue if they're going to actually do that. >> and i do already sense a split. the 2020 democrats are all on this program already, cornell. do you see this as a good issue for emocrats? >> i see it broadly as a good issue for democrats because of the optics, right? >> right. >> listen, the pictures of the kids being torn away from their families at the border whether you're a democrat or a republican or middle of the road, those images do not settle well, particularly with women voters, right. again, we're going to have a year of the woman voter that is going to make '92 pale in. comparis overall, the optics don't look good. i'm not for getting into the policy weeds on this. take it from the standpoint these are bad optics, not ourlu and not get in the weeds on this argument.

>> what you've already seen from the presidt and administration officials. for every discussion that's up aboutll a abolishing i.c.e. they bring out i.c.e. law enforcent officers to talk about their sacrifice and service to the country which is a message that resonates t th a people in the country who have a brother or cousin in law enforcement and feel they can relate to this. for the president, this is exace lot what wants to talk about. >> he's already linked to law enforcement. what's next? >> getid of police. >> on the democratic side you're seeing this polarization, this push to the left. this is a perfect demonstration -- >> that's my point. don't give it t them. >> the irony is you have people inside of i.c.e. that say the thing needs to be reformed. >> yes. >> you have actually msed up -- >> nuance is lost these days. >> i know. nuance is lost. >> that's true. whenouaid pushed to the left, and this is the macro version here. look, the democratic party has been pushed to the s left. forgialists for a moment,

the democratic party has been pushed to the left and that's whtrump got into wisconsin. you can make the case that hillary clinton didn't play in wisconsin, that's fine. you can do that. wisconsin, pennsylvania, the blue collar democrats. nna brazile said that trump picked the locks in that state because we left the door ope that's very important to realize. >> you're going to make my head prplode. here is a lem, wisconsin, he didn't win a majority, right? in pennsylvania, he didn't win a majority. >> but he won the state. >> his problem wasn't picking up -- >> hilry clinton didn't win a majority either. >> no, but obama did. that's my point. >> okay. >> the problem is pennsylvania, the problem in wisconsin where a lot of these obama voters who, quite frankly, broke third he party,re a protest vote and the millions who sat home. guess what? w is that not voting for you guys working? it's a problem. his winnin in wisconsin and pennsylvania, quite frankly, against obama was a loss, right? te did not -- he did not go 2 points above wha mitt romney did in those states, he coalesced a republican, picked

up a couple of points but that should not be a win. >> you cannot discount the fact that bluem collarrats went more to this president than any other republican president before. not just on permit butlso it was on personality but it was also because of the leftward shift of the democratic party. >> i can mke the same argument that, quite frankly, there are romney/hillary voters, right? and he did a lot worse amo college educated white voters than a republican has done in a long, long time. >> i think you're missing my point a little bit. this leftward shift in messaging sort of belies the fact that the democratic party is very, very divided. it's not divided between two different camps, it's divided among multiple camps. that's what alexandria was pointing out. >> you have fol like time ryan trying to talk about the middle class voters and you have t old guard like pelosi and others at the top. bere is no overall messaging that isnging that all together.

that's why messages likebosh i.c.e. start catching fire because there is no countermeasure out there from the democrats. e >> i hate to the one to take up for democrats, however, i will say, this is all very, very reminiscent of a lot of conversation we heard in 2008, the old versus the new guard. look, where are democrats on the major policies? you know, minimum ge increase, majority of americans are there, right? she ran onrt- ran on people over the money. that's a winning strategy left, right -- that's a middle of the road winning strategy right now. i don't -- and this bernie movement, is it really a movement? if you look at -- t t was the quote of our daily download. >> is it really a movement? i don'tit. >> i'm here to report from the front lines. this whole idea of make america great again. i'm telling you, in democrats, independents and, yes, republicanhoeholds it has resonated because democrats culturally, you minimum wage. that's fine. that's a cultural issue. i'm talking about culturally, socially, they've moved to the

left. >> on what? >> on abortion, forsure. on same-sex marriage. i can go on and on. >> but on abortn, you're the outlier on abortion. nowhere is there a majorityf americans who want abortion outlawed. >> well, just real quick, i don't thinknhere is outlier on abortion when the it's very evenly split. >> i got gallup right here -- >> when it comes to -- we'reve going to lt there. i got to go. unfortunately, i got to go. but a majority hav said they want to keep roe for what it's . wo before we go, i want to share this e-mail we got from a florida viewer. ends are of his f going to be purchasing online subscriptions to the "capital gazette." that's their way of honoring what happened in annapolis. that's an honorable goal. support your free press at home. that's a good idea. buybs a iption to your local paper. that's all we've got for so many things.

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