resistance at the white house. the fear, bob woodward's explosive new book describes a near mutiny in the white house against president trumwa >> this wo book is a total -- it's a total fraud. these people, libel laws, libel laws. the resistance, an anonymous ite house official writing that colleagues are working diligently from within to frustration parts of his agenda inclinations, the president calling on the justice department to investigate. >> i think it's a national security matter, they should look at it, they should look at it very strongly and we sho od fi who it is. >> is president trump in charge of his own white house? plus the supreme court,

brett kavanaugh says very little, while protesters and senators. >> there is clearly rule that applies. >> then applynd the rule bring the charges, bring it. >> take the spotlight. my guests this morning, counselor to president trump, kellyanne conway, republica b senatoren sasse of nebraska and democratic senator dick durbin of illinoi also, guess who is on the campaign trial. >> you need to vote because our democracy depends on it. >> andho guessis listening. >> i'm sorry, i watched it, but i fell asleep. >> joining me for insight and analysis are nbc newst correspond katy tur,de cratic pollster cornell belcher, danielle pletka of the american enterise institute and erick erickson, editor of the resurgent.y. welcome to sun bc's "meet the press." >> announcer: fromews in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck

todd. >> good sunday morning. it's not every day that we have words and phrases like these thrown around so freely here in washington. constitutional crisis, 25th amendment, sleeper cells, polygraph examinations, nervous breakdown, orange jumpsuit and administrative cod' at, but that's what happened this week when we retreated to two nt disturbing accof white house dysfunction, a one-two punch describing top officials working quietly to thwart a president they see as uninformed, unprincipled and perhaps unhinged. first came bob wood ard's book describing aides so unnerved by president trump's impulses that they h teken to swiping papers from his desk. "the new york times" printed a extraordinary op-ed he is say in effect confirming woodwardg reportat senior officials are working secretly to frustrate the president's worst inn colin cases, quote, americans should know there are adults in the room. we fully recognize what pp

ing and we are trying to do what's right even when donald e ump won't. in other words, ll is coming from inside the house. much of this i't shog shocking, with he knew from the chaos from michael wolf, openly reporting.n own we didn't know the senior staff was working at odds with the man that theeoters cted. it raises the request he is the president trump is control of his own white house. >> is it sub version? is it eason? it's a horrible thing. >> presint trump is fuming, intensifying his campaign against the author of th anonymous op-ed who claims to be part of a group of administration officials workini gently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations. president trump accused the times of treason and on friday he called on the attorney general to investigate. >> if he doesn't investigate it will ye jeff sessions finally. >> we will look and see what happens. it's a national security matter. they should look at it, they should look at it very strongly

and we suld find out who it is. why should we live with somebody in the white house who is really subversive. >> as a parade of officials, dozens at the top of mr. trump government rushed out public denials promising it's not them. >> i will answer your other question directly i because know someone will say, gosh, he didn't answer the question. it's not mine. >> that just nuts. nuts. of course i have nothing to do withthis. >> they ought to do the honorable thing and they ought to resign. de now multiple sources describe the pre's move as volcanic. >> they have to step back and ask themselves why is this madness going on. >> c back on thepaign trail for democrats, even former president obama criticized the anonymous op-ed. >> they are not doing us a service by actively promoting 90% of the crazy stuff thco's ng out of this white house and thensaying, don't worry, we're preventing the other 10%. >> the op- follows a new bombshell book by journalist bob woodward. >> this idiot woodward whorote this book.

>> like the anonymous op-ed the book is filled withne acdotes of senior officials working to up guardrails in the white house by keeping information and documents from mr. trump. including one incident where earmer economic adviser gary cohen describes stng a letter off the president's desk to prevent him from withdrawing from a trade agreement with south korea. >> i would fire a person so fast if he ever touches my desk. desk.hed from my this woodward book is a total fraud. these people. libel laws. and inside the white house is president is onl becoming more isolated, even from some of his senior staff. >> i think all of us have witnessed the fact that, you know, that people who work around the president do work constantly to keep things in the middle of the road. >> joining me now is counselor to president trump, kellyanne conway. ms. conway, welcome back toee the press." >> thank you, chuck. >> let me just start with to get

you to respond to the central allegation both in woodward's book and this anonymous op-edre that thedent isn't fully in charge of his presidency how do you respond with that? >> i totally disagree with that, so do general kelly, genel mattis and other people that have come out to push back on quotes attributed to them. i think general mattis' denial was relevant for what he denied and also what he affirmed. in denying that he would ever use con temp use language against elected commander or tolerate it in the very la pentagon that he oversees. he also affirmed his commitment to thees sus in the defense and national security space that the this president has achieved. genel mattis mentioned that the isis caliphate is all but gone. he mentioned that the paye aises rst military pay raise is quite a while, that defense policies are received honorably and applicably on. capitol hi there are tremendous differences, tremendous gains. i think the present's

consternation probably derives from the fact that we always have a handful of sourceisand s like the fifth consecutive book where it's basically a fewe. peo >> why should we take your -- why should we take your word for that? you say -- you said fib ks, i will go with we had the michael wolff, omasa, vario reports, now you have woodward and the anonymous op-ed. you say it' a fewpeople. that's a lot of -- are you sang a few people are the source for all of these faults? that a lot of people. >> -- somebody who above board met withwobobward to figure out what the book was about or how i might help and came back and took that to the white house as we all know. >> did you stop the prident from speaking to bob woodward. >> i did not. >> he seems to think the was a disagreement in that recording. he seems to at least indicate he wanted w speah bob woodward. >> and he said this week it wouldn't have helped. >> but he did want to speak to him. >>resident likes to speak to everyone. >> did you just not bring the request. ng no, i'm on tape sa

exactly what is true, which is i brought the request back and it was rejected. >> the president to the president? >> i also -- >> to the president? you're not answering whether you brought the request to the presn'ent. >> i dbring the request to the president directly and the president said she could have because she has direct access to me. all ths doesn't matter, t does. what the president said out woodward matters. he said, bob, i hope the book covers this boom economy, the w labor, es, growth, manufacturing jobs, construction. you can't deny and even somebody's poison pen in anonymous op-ed or theitriol spun all day long on some stations can't really touch the corners across this country where people are feeling the economic boom, where they feel safer and more prosperous. you can't touch it. has given skrois and visibility to follow, who felt invisible and forgotten. >> in fairness, actually, the unnamed person who wrote this, because it's obviously not

nonymous to some people at the "new york times," the unnamed person did write don't get me wrong, there are bright spots. effective deregulation, historic tax reform, a more robust military and more, but these successes have come despite not because of the president's leadership style which is imp tuesday, add ver sail i can't remember>>petty -- that is the intersection of arrogance and ignorance. in this person had the kind courage and skills that some of us do, they'd come foulard. you put them right in in chair today, you would have cleared out the whole round table if that person would come forward. i'm sure they would get a hero's welcome, but why, chuck?a you arng time journalist and responsible person. would you have gtyen anony would nbc have felt comfortable doing that if it turns out it's not a true senior administration official? why are we em bug credibility and authority to somebody who hasn't earned it? we can'tar rund all day saying facts and truth and transparency and .credibili

if we are i'm bug credibility to every anti-trump messenger that comesalong. >> what kind of west wing is it that everybody is quietly, gary i- >> everybonot doing that. excuse me, everybody is not doing that. >> okay. morethan a handful of people leaking anecdotes, venting thei frustration. >> you real lying a lot of people have been forced out andh fired, people left on their own accord. it's tough to not be -- >> let me ask this -- >> f it's n everyone as the vice president has said, it's not for everyone. >>ho runs the staff? who is in charge of the staff? >> the chief of staff. >> is the chief of staff doing his job. >> yes. >> if there is so many rogue leakers. >> put down as pro gener kelly. >> who are these people who don't listen to him. >> don't listen to whom? general kelly. >> these are people in books and in, i guess, anonymous op ed's, i'm not sure they know the president or john lly, who are, i think, motivated by

conceit and deceit and that peon is going to suss out himself or herself because cowards like criminal always tell the wrong person, always confess their crime to the wrong person. >> do you trust everybody you work with right now. >> yes, i do. >> why? >> i will tell you what happened this week. the team tightened up even more e of all this, folks who don't even work together because they dealif inrent portfolios, different issues, folks who don't know each other that well, some new, some have been around since the campaign like e me,re tighter this week because we are so joined in our outrage and, yes, i hope the person -- i hope we learn the identity of the person, but why elevate the person? i'm morere ined in giving voice and visibility to folks -- >> do you understand the president dohen't trust staff right now? >> i think the president should haveeal concerns about having large meetings with sometimes there are peop included or who are substituting for other people that maybe he doesn't know wellnd i thinkvery president deserves to have a leak-free --

>> sure. >> -- anonymous op-ed free type of white house. >> are you going to fire these leakers if you find out who they are? >> there are some leakers who are long gone, they are just leaking no you tos authnd books so they're long gone. actually, that's gotten much better. i think that president trump deals best in smaller groups because hes lo to hear dissenting opinions, disagreements among his staff and he will hamebody who is for this and for that on different sides of the spectrum on a particularutissue,e knows he is the democratically elected commander and president who ultimately mak that decision. that's leadership. somebody surrounds himself or herself with peopleho disagree but who try to brief the president perly. you are not covering all the good things. i mean -- >> let me ask this, he called ir son, why is it treason, the op-ed writer? >> it depends. if this is somebody who has access to national security information and the president has made clear he doesn't want to be in a meeting with somebody dealing with russia, china,

north korea who has access t that type of information and then is using it. how do w know what the -- >> what is it in the op-ed that would make it treason? >> what makes you think -- how are we secure, chuck, that the four corners of any op-ed are all that somebody that -- who doesn't have the guts and the c courage e out and put their name to that -- to that o op-ed, how we know they haven't promised other things? erw do we know they are not taking o documents? we know early on it was leaked the president's calls with the presidents of mexico and australia -- >> we are not at war withy anyb you can't really accuse anybody of treason. we are not at war. >> the president is saying -- oh, come peon. le are openly talking about the 25th amendment and impeachment. such nonsense. look at the spectacle on capitol hill this week. brett kavananfh will be med later this month and the be seated before october 1st supreme court term because that man is q asalified and dignified today as he was when he was first nominated. i know you want to avoid that,

but -- >> i'm not a viegd anything. >> all this is noise ultimately in history. brett kavanaugh will be for decades. >> the president of the united states wants the attorney general toinvestigate. what law was broken here that the attorney general needs to in stigate? >> it depends. there could be and there could not be. and so you don't know that and i don't know that. >> so he wants -- so he has ordered the attorney general -- >> nobody is investigating an op-ed. >> has he ordered the investigation of who wre this op-ed? >> i won't talk about that. he has said publicly that he thinks we should find out who giis person is. i don't believe inng this person so much elevation and oxygen, but we all want to know who it is. >> it's possible has given an order to the department of justice to investigate this? >> he has said publicly what he feels. you can roll the tape. he said it several times. >> i understand that. should it be taken -- should the s an ney general take it order? >> if the attorney general, the department of justice and fbi feel like they have oversight on a matter like this they will make that decision. >> dore thedent believe they have oversight. >> what the president believes is that nobody wants to cover

what america sees and feels because of his leadership. there is no denying- there either are or are not 201,000 jobs created, yes, wages and labor and growth up, yes, yes, yes. we were told there was going to be a global recession. president obama preend around what's he going to do with a magic wand, he'sng g to create jobs and he's doing it without a magic band. he refused taxes, he deregulated when president obama a those regulations. he doesn't believe in some phoney red line in syria wher we have a humanitarian crisis. this president responded swiftly and dee sis ifl against assad when he gassed his own people not once but twice. >> did he ever suggest to secretary mattis kill the guy? >> ily certa never a heard it. >> it's possible he said it in gist. >> general mattis hasecide what was said in that book and i want he err everybody to reas denial and affirmation.

there is a reason people like general mattis and general kelly are serving this president.mu they ver believe in the agenda, in a strong military and peace through strength, ino trying bring denuclearization, getting out of the wrong headed iran deal. benjamin netanyahu in his message is crediting this president for being a great partner. this president kicked out a nazi, kicked out a nazi that other presidents refused to and he moved the embassy jerusalem, keeping the promise of many presidents. thanks for having me. >> wow. you even had wrapping up a thank you. avllyanne conway, we will it there. joining me now fromr the otde of the aisle is democratic wip dick durbin who sits on the judiciary commtee. senator durbin, welcome to "meet the press." >> good to be with eyou. >> let start quickly on this issue of the op-ed and the president. what should congress' role be? if there is an unelected cabal of people thwarting the willof

the peop and trying to stop the president from doing thin that h campaigned on doing, for instance, ending a trade agreement withko south ea, what is the role of the legislative branch in dealing with a troubling -- potentially troubling situation like that? >> well, of course, there is a formal role. congress under the constitution has its own uthority, but it is an authority that is exercised in the extreme.th the 25 amendment, the question of impeachment, but i think there's a more importaole for congress to play and especially the president's own this is a matter of great seriousness and gravity. we should not beg dismiss it. it isn't like his blizzard of bizarre tweets. we are talking about consretent rting over and over again about unpredictable, unprepared, unstable behavior by this president. in a matter of great national security and defense, can we trust this president to ma the proper decision?

to make a thoughtful n?decis these are things that i think should be addressed by his own party but instead we hear t silence of the lambs. they are basically quiet, have nothing to say when it comes to these events except forf , bob corker is one of them who stepped up and said a few things. >> what concerns you more, there is an unelected cabal or ts repoat come out from these anonymous sources? doesn't the president deserve to have a t stafft doesn't -- not just disparage him this way at mes, but stops hi from actually doing the job that he believes he was elected to do? >> well, of course, but you have to ask yf what kind of circumstances in the white house would even give rise to this possibility? under president obama eight years without anin ctment, eight years without a major scandal, you know, they had their problems,r everyidency does, but nothing that went to the heart of the question about whether we have a dysfunctional white house. if we do, it's inescapabl that the president bears responsibility. he's the one who gathered this

team, he's the one who tries to keep them together and yet there is genuine fear obviously among some of them that his behavior is going to result in some terrible things for america. >> let me move to th kanaugh hearings. you were -- you are on the judiciary committee, you were there for all of it. is it problematico you that it's possible the hearings are going to be known more for the democratic and republican senators' infighting than any of the questioning of judge kavanaugh? >> well, i can tell you that judge kavanaugh in an earlier life used to schooldicial nominees of what to say and not say before the judiciary committee and it was pretty obvious in his performance there. there were practiced evasions and mind numbing repetition of answers. he knew how to get through two or three days of questioning. >> is that on him, senator durbin, or on democratic senators no asking enough questions and not staying focused only on this issue of roe, for instance? >> i can tell you we were

focused on roe, focused on thea affordableact and denying health insurance coverage to millions of americans. with he tried to go after the fundamental issue and the one i think is the most important at the moment in history and that is what this man, brett kavanaugh, would do on the supreme court if he'sro coed with a question involving the white house, the mueller io investig >> you believe that is more important -- senator, that's interesting. you believe that is more important than the roe issue and the abortion sue? >>well, i think they are all of importance, but the issue of the moment clearly is this situation with the mueller investigation and the important element that we shouldn't overlook is that kavanaugh has been explicit,n explicitaying the president should not be subject to investigation or during his term in office. he even went further in an amazing statement saying this presidentcod deem things unconstitutional even if the

courts found otherwise. an, this is an amazing ceding of authority to the executive branch which you don't expect to hear from someone aspiring to the supreme court. >> let meskou about something forming president obama said about theng ris energy on the left with progressives. he actually issued a bit of warning to progressives and i'm curious of your reaction to it. here it is. >> there are well-meaning folkso pate about social justice who think things have gotten so bad we have to do the same things to the repueyicans that o to us, adopt their tactics. >> and i want toonnect i to a story in "politico" from friday. under the headline harrison booker borrow trump's tacts in supreme court frack can i say, floating an inn send naer chargi little to no factual basis can t force the oppositipro of a negative. it isn't the details that resonate with base voters it's the show.

fair critique? >> i can tell you this, a recent book "how democracies die" talked about beyond the vious, beyond the values of america, beyond the constitution there's mutual tolerance and forbearance that keep this democracy on track. i think what the pre has said and what i agree with and i think my colleagues including senators booker and harris woul agree with is that we need to be more civil to one another, we need to obviously do ourb, but at the end of the day we need to have a focus on the fact that this country moves forward when we do it in a positive way with ttualerance and forbearance. i will tell you we have not seen that from this president frog the beginnof his campaign through his presidency. >> but the whole fight fire with fight, you would tell your democratic friends, you know, don't do that. on an, look, senator harris wednesday night implied there was something ntarious ab brett kavanaugh and the mueller probe and then the next day it was like, no,to nothing see

here. >> well, i can tell youehat said, she had heard what she thought from a credible source that brett kavanaugh had had some contact with this law firm, she ked him, he said i don't know all the members of the law firm, he was caught rather flat-footed. by the next day he came in and categorically denied it and she said that's the end of that to me is a responsible way to ask the question and to accept the aner as delivere under oath. i think she did the right thing, what happens n though, is that we need to get into the issues of the moment. >> okay. >> and try to find ourselves away from the personalities. >> senator dick durbin, democrat from illinois, thanks for on and sharing your views. much appreciated, sir. >> thanks, chuck. savannah guthrie will interview bob woodward tomorrow morning on the "today" show. when we come back the white house dysfunction. ♪ i was able to turn the aircraft ar,nd, and the mission arou

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welcome back. panelists here democratic pollster and nbcca poli analyst, cornell belcher, danielle pletka, nbc news correspondent katy tur and erick erickson a wsb radio hostand he had core of the conservative website the resurgent. welcome all. katy tur, did we actually learn anything new this week about how donald trump runs the white house? >> no, we didn't. and this is the thing about tat op-ed, it only underscored what was said in the woodward boo ich only underscored reporting that many outlets had done including nbc which underscored the themes in the omarosa book and the "fire and fury" book and the same thing we knew during the campaign. this idea that suddenly peopl are worried about the president is just not new. they have been worried about him since themp gn. i had countless conversations with sources during the campaign who went oto work in the white house who would say things like,

this man is not fit for office, this man is dangerous, this man worldng to get us into war iii and those people went on to work in the white house and then started talking about how great he s. so this is -- what they say publicly and what they say privately ere has always been a push and pull like that ins is the beginning. >> i should -- we did put together a scroll of all the deniers of writing the op-ed and we will put that over there erk, because we know the president does keep score. he has been following who has put out statements, who had their press person put o a atement instead of them putting out a statement. by the way, nikki haley decided to write her on op-ed in the "washington post" -- >> which apparently has caused controversy in the white house. >> i feel like we've learned a lot more a iout everybody el the white house this week, not about the president. >> i think that's a fair statement. my working theory is like murder on the orient express, each of the deniers contributed a sentencehe op-ed. >> by the way, that has been my theory, it's one person but speaking for others. >> yes, you know, i think that's

true, but i think there's a misperception out there that president trump's voters don't believe this. i think it's actually they don't care. he is beating all the people who they've wanted to beat on both sies, not just against democrats, they have put him in the white house because he spoke for them, he gave them voice. ey don't care about this. we can -- >> they almost thinkt'sfunny. >> yes, they do. >> they almost are amused by it, ar't they? >> they likes that washington upside down because they feel like washington turned them skrup side down. >> listening to kellyanne i actually g afraid, i was fearless for the first time. i don't want to be partisan and go after the whi house on this because god help us, chuck, if we actually have a tional crisis because that's keystone cops over there, right? such dysfunction and a congress that sits by and twidless its thumbs, i'm actually fearful for our country that we have this level of dis function in the

executive branch. if we do have aational crisis, how do we deal with it if that's over at the white >> danielle, that has been the split personality in my hd about this. this is disturbing on one hand because unelected cabal, they're also painting a picture of somebody who is not fit for office. the is no good evaluation here. >> well, there's no got outcome, but i agree with katy,th i don' k we learned anything new about the white house. there's always the exact same theme which is it's not what happens, it's how donald trump reacts to what happens that causes the trouble. that is really the challenge i don't careouse, what people say, every white house has had officials in it that have sought to do something different thanwhat the president says. that's not the problem here, the problem is how donald trump reacts. >> does the president need to assert hopublicly, h, that he's in charge? i mean, look at the number of people that krit i want to put this up here. the chief of staff is quoted as calling him anio the defense secretary says he has the understanding of a fifth or

sixth grader, a former economic adviser calls him a professional lawyer and rex tillerson the former secretary of state used f'in moron. president obama had to fire stanley mccrystal when he was -- when his staffas humiliating vice president biden. there was this sense of the commander in chief has to assert himself. doesn't the president of the united states need to assert himself. >> who is he going to hire to put in these places? >> inhis case it' the 25th floor of the trump tower. >> the reason why those ring true is because we've been and ng the same thing ov over for years now. these are not new terms, it's not new to say he has the understanding of a fifth or sixth grader. we heard that before the campaign. we heard that before he wasg runnr the white house. if he fires john kelly, if he fires members of his cabinet, there are very limited number of people who are willing to come in and take th place other than the 25th floor of trump tower. there's a very limited number of qualified would be for that job to take those spots. >> part of the problem you're

dealing with here isli republics to tell themselves this is a deep state conspiracy against the presiden r this iublicans against the president. republicans donald trump put there because the people that had surrounded him early on weren't competent to do those jobs. you havehe most competent people willing to do the job in place, you can't afford toose those people. >> some people are attacking the anonymous as not heroes. i'm actuallyoing to be a democrat and say i'm very happy that they're there and they're doing th. i am, yes, disturbed by what appears to be a softcoupe. our democracy isn't perfect, it's the best thing going but n it perfect and clearly something happened, with as a mistake, and i am thankful that we have a in the room who will check the works of this president. i know it sounds odd, but i am grateful for it but i'm also terrified. >> but this is a slippery slope, danielle. >> the problem is what you just said is that you are afraid and areyou'relad these guys there. you know, if we are willing to

accept that kelly and mattis and pompeo and bolton are responsibl adults who have good more or less and good moral standing and areere to do the right thing and serve their country then we don't need to be afraid. i think that's the right rays. we don't need to be afraid, but the person who wrote this -- >> i'm afraid. >> you can be afraid. >> there really is a lot of concern among many members of tration, senior members of the administration, then i think there is a responsibility to democracy, period, to come out and say what put yourern is and to name on it and maybe to do it in a group so it's not just one person. if they are as senior as they say they are -- ben sasse -- well, ben sasse told hugh hewitt the other day that this is nothing that is new. he has heard these same thingsh around w white house officials now f t twoo three times a week. i mean, it not just reporters saying it. >> you're right about it. >> it's ben sasse saying it. >> the problem is ilked to a good friend of mine who does work for the president, loves the president but yys this whoever wrote this has made their lives extremely difficult done thise they've

the whole time, the president suspected it, but now he knows between this and the woodward tok he knows and it's going make their job even harder. >> if you do come out and i hear ndyou on thatagree to a certain extent, but the moment you brought up ben sasse' name, you brought up ben sasse' name, i'ms this ia tomato you can track from farm, to pot, to jar, to table. and serve with confidence that it's safe. this is a diamond you can follow from mine to finger, and trust it never fell into the wrong hands. ♪ ♪ this is a shipment transferred two hundred times, transparently tracked from port to port. this is the ibm blockchain, built for smarter business.

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in private. one republican, though, who has been willing to speak out at times is senatoren sasseof nebraska. senator sasse joins me now from nebraska. welcome, sir. good morning. >> let me just -- >> thanks, welcome to nebraska. >> yes, sir. leme just start with asking you an extension of a question that hugh hewitt asked you the other day about the anonymous essay. your initial reaction was similar to mine, you were like, i don't know how to talk about it yet, i'm still processing it, but you also noted it's very similar to what you hear from about t-thirds of the senior people at the white house. so you've had a couple of da digest, what do you make of it and what bothers you more, the unnamed cabal of people thwarting the will of the people or the allegations themselves? >> yeah, i don't -- i don't think that either/or works because there are lots more thinse than just to be worried about. the thing i'm most worried about is our politican' culture i focused on any long-term stuff.

the president was electec in 2016se he wanted to disrupt everything and frankly a lot neededo be disrupted, but the question is disruption toward what end. i've reflected more on the op-ed in the week since it came out or however many days it was. i don't understand the morality of the action, i don't know why you would do it. if you're worried that the president is too impulsive andp noid then how can this op-ed do anything other than drive more pair w i can't to your point, those of you who are trying to help the white house and the presint has surrounded himself with a number of very good people doing good work and trying to persuade him to take a longer-term vision, i think those people are doing good work by trying to help the president think a little further down the road. why you would writabout it in in forum, i don't get the morality of that. >> when youear about gary cohen yanking a piece of paper off the president's desk to prevent him from ulg pull out of agreemenkorean trade i know where you are on the issue of trade, you me, personallyh, good, but the

campaign campaigned on ripping up trade deals. this was what he promised. where are you on that? >> yeah, so i think we need to be talking about why there's so much job disruption because there are more than our grandparents knew and people knew 100 years ago and there's going to be even more in the future, but it's not because of trade, it's because of au mation. i would like the president to understand that trade is good, trade helps producers, trade helps consumers, but individual advirs don't get a substitute their judgment for the president's judgment what you would like is the president to put a chief of staff in place to lead a policy process where a present can in a dispassionate way deliberate about lots of information and lots of advice and wisdom and counsel and then he can make a long-term desion. one adviser shouldn't be substituting his or his or her with ishe dom for president's, but there should be a process in which the president gets counsel. >> do you think it'sthmportant fopresident to publicly

stabilize his staffing situation in the white house? because it certaly looks a little dysfunctional to the public. >> you know, i don't have any desire to beat the president up, but it's pretty clear that this ahite house is a reality show, soap op presidency. i mean, the dam ma is the drama of omarosa andcohen and manafort and the drama of the woodward quotes and the drama of these op ed's. what you would like is the president so not worry so much about the short term of staffing but the long-term o vision casting for america. pull us together as a people. help usbe dete about where we should go and build ae eam of big caw ego people around you. right now it feels like thche's way too drama every day and that distracts us from the loer term stuff we should focused on together. >> you said something that rang true with me when you said the following on fox on friday. take a listen. >> the congress is b aken institution. we don't deliberate about long-term things. you all ha an important role to help narrative what's

happening in american life, but senators shouldn't aspire to be pundits all day every day. >> megan mccardel wrote the following, said sasse has precisel diagnosed the problem, but american will not recover. ben sasse has become well known for his public statements o character and constitutional order while doing relatively little on the leglative front. have you found the senate that you can't do what you thought w you could n you ran for the senate? is it because the body itself is dysfunctional? >> i think there's dysfunction in both of these main two branches, the legislative bran and the executive branch. i'm proud that we got a piece of legislationassed last month that i offered -- authored on the cyberioslayer yum commi which is to try to upgrade american military planning for the cyber age k thd of stuff is really important and it should come out of the legislature, but frankly ofreally focus the attenti the american public on it you need the bully pulpit of the

white house. the president has put a lot of good people in around him, general paul nacasoni is a really thoughtful long-term thinker and kudos to the president for promoting him, but we need both the president and congress and presidency to be focus on helping the american people understand the focus of cyber war. the bigger thing we need is a discourse partly led by the president about stuff that's ten years in the future not tenin hourhe future. right now most of d.c. is just addicted to short term media cycles and we need fewer people in congress who are that obsessed with tomorrow and that ssed with their own inn couple bensy and more obsessed with the future their idds and granwill grow up in. >> the other thing you said in the wake of the memorials honoring john mccain, you said the best dthing to would be to pass meaningful tough ethicsat legin. we looked up and right now probably the most comprehensive

ethics legislation happens to warren.to elizabeth i throw it up here and i'm curious what you think of it. she proposing a lifetime landn lobbying from former members of congress, presidents and agency heads, a ban on senior government officials from owning and trading individual stock, a permanent ban on lobbyist donations to congress an all elected officials and candidates for federal office be required to dilose their tax returns. it sounds familiar to some of the rhetoric you were espousing on this. >> yeah, it's interesting. so i'm the second or third most consve person in the senate by voting record, but i'm not particularly parti an. n't care very much about these two parties because i don't think either of them have a long-term vision, but there is a number of things here that se itor warren and would agree on. i have a piece of ethics legislation m going to be introducing that also says that all tax returns andpridential and vice presidential candidates should be disclosed, with he shouldn't have any of this near insider trading happening by ess, we of con shouldn't have cabinet officials spouses raising funds from

foreign sources. we should have a longer ban or cooling off period on former lawmakers going to lobb we are about as far apart on the most cal spectrum on things, but on ethics things i think we might see eye toeye. people across the political spectrum don't th k they c trust their lawmakers to ever want to go back to our mt. vernons, to go live among our neighbors and coach little league, instead people run for office to want to get to d.c. to become lobbyists and get rich while in office. that's a crisis and that should stop. senator warrenand i should talk more on this topic. >> all right.u very quickly, d floated on twitter that you sometimes think abou dpping your party. that you don't always feel like a republican, you said it again just now. how likely is it that you would leave the republicanparty? >> you know, i've said for -- i've been in office for, what, three and a half years and i've said since i got there i conceive of f as an independent conservative who happens to caucus with the republicans. i would like both of these

parties to be healthier and be competing to be better than the other one amongst a bunch of good ideas instead of trying to be less bad than the other one and always say how you're ante, ante, it b just not enough. i'm committed to the party of lincoln and reagan as long as we can reform iand gett back to being about a party that's about the universal dignity of all americans and the first amendment as the beating heart of american life. right now that's not what the party talks about very much. >> senator ben sasse who caucuses with the republicans from nebraska, conservative independent from nebraska, i will use your description there. sorry about those huskers yesterday, but they look like they're coming back. >> thank you for coming on. >> we will be back soon. when we come back, nike and wnlin kaepernick, turns out nike may have kno what it was doing may have kno what it was doing when ron! soh really? going on at schwab. thank you clients? well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms...again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost

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kaepernick who launched the nfl's anthem kneeling protest against racial injustice washe announced asew face of nike's just do it campaign. this sparked outrail on the right with folks take to go social media to burn their nike products. there were attacks from president trump directly and predictions of doom after nike's stock pricepp initially d about $3 per share. a closer look shows nike may actually understand something critics don't about its consumers. according to data from simmons research democrats are 14% more likely than the average american to buy nikeshoes, republicans are 12% less likely. african-americans are 56% more likely to buy nike than americans on the whole. whites are 14% less likely.er and ans age 18 to 34 are 37% more likely to buy nike footwear, a group also more likely to support the kneeling protests. in 2018 where everything al, some be polit voters are fine with companies entering the fray. t data from research firm

sprout social shows that 78% of self-described liberals say it's important for brands to take a stand on social or political issues. 5hile not as high, a majority of conservatives say the same thing. so despite the outrage,mb the s suggest, number one, nike knows its consumer base is young, diverse and libera maybe they did a little research first. in fact, online sales for nike spiked 31% this week. i think they did their research this isli a group morly to view kaepernick as a cultural icon than a villain. the hen we come back midterm elections are coming up and there's only one thing that. matt >> announcer: coming up, end game and postgame, brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does.

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inspire. back now with end game. we are less than 60 days from election day, i would s the big sort of development of the week, the conventional wisdom developmt of the week is, hey, oh, by the way, the senate might be at play and that might matter more anyway. this morning mick mulvaney who is has 17 jobs in this white house including budget directioner and the consumer financial protection also did some fundraising last night, an audio that appently every major news organization got their hands on. he said theab followingt the midterms in general, he was talking about the texas onate race aer senate races and he goes, look, you may hate the president and there's a lot of people who do but they certainly like the way the country is going, adding about voters, if yorafigure out a way to subt from that equation how he feel about the president the numbers go up dramatically. so there you go, danny. how do you do that? >> i think's he going to lose his 17 jobs at some point. >> is heou anon >> wow. i mean, you know, out of the

mouths of the babes, this is absolutely true. people are happy with the direction the country is taking, people don't listen to the hopresident, but for who listen to the president, they are upset by what they hear. right. it would be awesome if we could just subtract the president out of the whole equation in the midterms. supply executive producer is a big fan of the buffalo bills, they could beat the patriots if they could figure out how to get ridf bill belichick and tom brady. >> you do have a president with historical low numbers. the number i think interesting pmissing in the "washingtt" that we didn't talk about is you now from a 49% plurality of americans hong congress should start impeachment now. congress 3% who wan to check on the president. you cannot -- i mean, the president is front and cente in all these races but what's interesting is democrats aren't running ads around the aesident. if you look at the competitive house seats, they are not running ads about the heesident. >> i don't thinkneed to. >> exactly, we don't need to. >> josh holmes, it was funny, it was like a point, counterpoint,

he did write about trump or said this in the post, his presidency is everywhere nuance and message. what doesn't directly involve him is drowned outaly a complete che of news an pundit tree. you have to run with him or not. >> you asolutely do. republicans right now are thinking there may be a large blue wave in already blue areas, but the numbers seem to be shifting. if they're shifting as dramatically asatit looks going to win back the senate by republicans havec said w compartmentalize, this isn't a problem for us, now it's looking like it'secoming a problem. i will say this about the future of the trump presidency, ly republicans reislike losers and after four years of saying barack obama, you caused rte democratic p to be set back to the late 1800s, that happens to the republicans now, you're going to have a wake-up call. >> you brought up president obama. his role, what do you make of it? >> i think it's interesting. there is the tk that is h going to fire up republicans or are republicans going to wantseo go out becbama is on the campaign trail.

>> for those who didn't see erick erickson is nodding a big why he. >> i do think what the democratic party needs is aer lend somebody who is going to inspire younger voters, inspire minority voters, those who have not turned out in big numbers for the democrats since he has left office. is that going to happen with him not on theballot? that remains to be seen. we know that obama wasn't so great at running n thedterms while he was president for his own party. i do think they need someone to rally around because right now what you are saying although you have 2020 democrats and there is all that talk about booker and warren and camera , harr cetera, nobody is standing up and taking that mantle and so far he is the only >> this is the thing, when you look at some of these swing districts, right now he's -- he's 15, 20 points more popular than donald trump, right. >>resident obama. president obama is, right. and when you look at sort of, look, we want -- i worked for him so i'm a teamer, but we wanb back tck majorities by winning the moderate middle swath of america.

s, we overperformed on young people and minorities and democrats immediate that, but when you look at tese suburban districts, that moderate middle swath of america, there's no better democrat out there that can spe to them. >> you don't want to remind people, donald trumpbe actually an outgoing democratic party, he beat the memory of barack obama. if you want to make this election about donald trump and barack obama i'm not sure that that going to help the democrats. >> i would take that all day long. >> i think theuestion of '16 was it about obama or was it about hillary and that is something there. >> that's all we have for today. thanks for ng. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: you can seeme mor end and postgame, sponsored by boeing, on the "meet the press" facebook page. ♪ ♪

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