this sunday lashing outt mueller. president trump says he's finished answering the special counsel's written questions. >> i write the answers. my lawyers don't write answers, i write answers. >> and depogoes back on the att against robert mueller. >> it's a hoax. the whole thing is a hoax. there was no collusion. >> with more indictments expected soon, democrats woman a bim to protectle mu mitch mcconnell says no. lindsey graham says the investigation is safe. could a showdown over mueller lead to a shutdown of the government. this morning i'll talk to south carolina republican senator lindsey graham. plus the cia determines that sai crown prince mohammed bin salman ordered the murder of journalist jamalkhashoggi.

but will presidentrump accept at conclusion. >> we also have a greatll a in saudi arabia. also, the democrats ohio hope. >> let them hear what we say. let them see what we do. >> is sherrod brown the democrat who can winnd back ohio working class voters in the midwest? >> that is the blueprint for america for 2020 >> he sounds like he's running forpresident. is he? my interview this morning withe senatorod brown of ohio. and mapquest, why both parties can find eouraging signs and danger signals for 2020. news white re nbc house correspondent hallie jackson, rich lowry, editor ofio "nl review." yamiche alcindor, and cnbc editor at large, john ha welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in televisio history, this is "meet the press" with chuck

todd. well, a goodrn sunday g, everybody. for nearly two months we've heard little from special counsel robertr, muel nor have we heard much about mueller from president trump. they both went quiet. it's possible the silence has worked in mr. trump's favor. thm midtxit poll found that 46% of those polled disapproved of mueller's handling of the russia inveigation. that of course almost exactly equal to the president's job lican housethe rep vote share. just 41% approved of the mueller probe. but with the m elections over, the president unloaded this week on mueller and his invest aation both in tweet in an interview with "the daily caller." what led to the outburst? is it because new indictments are expected soon, possibly including the president's son, donald trump jr.? is the prospect of a democrat majority in the house launchingo a ton investigations? is it the bipartisan criticism of his cice of matt whitaker to be the acting attorney genera or is ithe fact that he had to answer any written

questions at all from mueller which heckwledged doing this week. whatever the reason mr. trump is turning up the temperature ain on t special counsel just as the prospect of a government shutdown gets linked t over whether we want to protect mueller from the president. >> have you submitted your answerso the special counse >> no, we do that next week. they're all done. >> president rump revealing that after nearly a year of negotiations, he has answered written qobstions fromt mueller. >> i write the answers. my lawyers don't write answers, i write answers. >> mr. trump accused prosecutors of setting a perjury trap. >> i'm sure they're tricked up. gee, w the weath sunny or was it rainy? instead it may have been a good day, it was rainy, therefore he told a lie, he perjured himself. >> on thursday the president tweeted without evidence that le mus team is screaming and shouting at people, horribly withtening them to come u the answers they want. >> on twitter yesterday seemed i agitated about what you

might be perceiving the mueller investigation -- >> no, i'm not agitated. it's a hoax. >> and in anan interview with the the daily caller" when asked with who's he considering for a permanent replacent for jeff sessions, the president brought up a mueller probe saying it's something that shoend have never brought. it's an illegal investigation. >> in theory it's not an investigation of me, but it's -- as far as i'm concerned, i like to take everything personallyou becauseo better that way. >> this week lawyers challenging the legality of acting attorney general matt whitaker's appointment took their case to e supreme court. >> i think a lot of the questions involving mr. whitaker and the acting a.g. could be elimined if we had a nominee. >> as a commentator on cnn h defended ways to weaken the mueller probe by defunding it an vox said that he privately provided advice to the president last year on how he might be able to pressure the justice department to investigate mr. president trump' political adversaries, including hillary eclinton, andven pressure the

justice department to name a second special counsel to investigather. >> why in the world we would be so sangwine about this is beyond me. >> jeff flake says he will not vote for any more of the president's nominees until the senate protects mueller's job. >> he's suggested ways to diminish the probe,t to starve of funding, for example. >> and there's this threat from democrats. >> if whitaker does not recuse himself, we democrats are going to attempt to add legislation to the must-pass spending bill in e lame duck session that will prevent acting attorney general whitaker from interfering with the mueller investigation in any way. >> but so far republican senate leader mitch mcconnell is refusing to bring m anyller bill to the floor. >> we know how the president feels about the mueller st ination, but he's never said he wants to shut it down. >> and joininginey graham of south carolina, who is

likely to be the next head of the judiciary committee next year. senator graham, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you very much. >> and i don't mean to get ahead of things onjudiciary. i know that that is not a done deal yet, but it is like. >> notyet. >> let me start with something that senator mcconnell said there at the end of our piece, that the president, despite all of the noise the president hasn't threatened to shut it down. he has quite a bit on twitter wanted it shut down, has sort of said in the ether he would like it to be shut down. are you confident the president attorney general is not going to shut down this probe? >> i'm very confident. it would be a disaster for the republican party, for the mueller investigation to be terminated or shut down played with. it's close to the end, let's see what he finds. i can understand why the president doesn't like the investigation. it.feels wronged by i remember the clinton/ken starr

episode pretty well. this is standard prttice. i think most republicans on capitol hill and democrats believe that mr.beueller should allowed to do his job and i haveo indication he's going to be interfered with at all. >> i know you said you would support this bill essentially the mueller protection bill. i think you voted for it in committee. >> in the judiciary. democrats have talked about connecting it to the spending billir and using t votes in the house that will be needed as leverage. do you support that move? >> not really, but i think mitch should bring it to theloor and let's vote on it. jeff flake says he's not going to support judges until we get a vote on the mueller protection bill, which i wrote, by the way. some people think it's up constituti -- unconstitutional. i think the best thing the senate can do is bring it to the floor and vote on it. >> why won't the senator do that? he seems pretty adamant. we've had our own reporting on is. senator flake and senator

mcconnell got into it a little bit. you were probaomy in the what can you tell us about why senator mcconnell is the roadblock here? >> well, he thinks it's unconstitutional. he thinks it's not necessary. again, i helped draft the bill with senator booker. constitutional and i'd like to vote on it. having said all that, i don't see any indication att all t the mueller probe is going to be interfered with myr. whitaker or president trump. but he's the majority leader, not me. if it were upo me, we'd be voting on the bill and see where the votes are at. >> do you think the gambit by democrats to connect it to the spending bill will change sena'sr mcconne mind? >> oh, i don't know. once you give into that kind of stuff it neverends. it might be counterproductive leader themajority have a thousand demands. if they link all of them to shut down the government, it's probably counterproductive to threaten that, i would think. >> you met with the new acting attorney ahneral. >> >> a couple things.

you said that it would be a mistake, a disaster for republicans earlier in our interview here. >> yeah. >> that if they even messed with it at all. e you confident that the new acting attorney general is letting the probe go? he's not going to touch funding, not going to interfere at all? >> yeah, i am. oi said that he's to support the regular order of process. counsels law, special report to the deputy attorney general and any recommendations are sent up to thel,ttorney genen this case the acting attorney general. he said he's going to letla re order prevail here. in other words, he's not going to reach out and try to stop the investigation. >> so he's letting -- >> he's not going to cut out of funding. >> does this mean rod rosenstein still oversees mueller? he's in the chain of command. the initial report comes to the deputy attorney general. whatever the request is by the special counsel. that goes up to the acting attorney general for final apthoval. he's i chain of command, but the final decision-making would be by mr.it er.

>> after meeting with him, if the president nominated him as a permanent c replacemenld you imagine supporting him? >> too early totell. you know, he was a u.s. attorney years, h and a half was sessions' deputy for a year and a half. he said some things that would probably be problematic to be confirmed. but havingataid i was very impressed with his attitude, his professionalism, and he's gotve solid resume. so i would encourage the president to pick somebody fairly soon so we can have a permanent attorneingeneral going the first part of next year. >> does that mean not mr.he whitakeryou say you'd like him to nominate someone very soon? >> no, that's up to the president. you asked me about mr. whitaker. i have nothing against him. the besknow if he's choice. you hear about mr. barr, former attorney general. that's a good choice. there are a lot good names out there. i would encourage the president to start 2019 a w soon ascan with a new attorney general that he has confidence in and we can get confirmed. >> the fact that you name dropped the former attorney general, mr. barr, does that

mean that's your preference? that's your first choice? >> no, it means i read the paper and his name is in it a lot. that's all. it won't be me, let's start with that. it's not going to be me. he's got a lot of good choices, i'm not one of them. >> take your point on that one. let me ask you about, you have indicated an openness to a second special counsel. you're now -- >> yeah. >> -- likely going to be head of the judiciary committee. why jump to a second special counsel? why can't you do it first? why can't it be done in congress before you decide you need al spec counsel? >> well, the one thing i'm not suggesting is that we go back and try to reprosecute secretary clinton. that's not what i'm suggesting. i am suggesting that the people at the department of justice ane fbi in thely stages of the russian investigation, the dossier was used to get a fisa warrant that i thin was very inappropriate. there seems to be some political bias about how the clinton

e-mail investigation was handled. we need to get to the bottom of all that, but i'm not suggestin that we prosecute her. and let me take a shot at this e and maybe you right, maybe the committee can do it. but i'll let you know more early next yorear. we're definitely going t look at this stuff. >> speaking of the committee, it feels as if senators grassley and feinstein, the relatenship br apart, okay. and we can come up with a lot of theories as to why. what are you going to do to repair the damage that was done duri the kavanaugh hearings in the judiciary committee? >> well, the kavanaugh hearings were -- i think did a lot of damage to the committee and to they,judicind we've got to start off over. the good thing about elections, uck, is it's a restart, it's a reset of democracy. we've got a new group of people coming in, it's a fresh start. i like diane. i don't think she did anything inappropriate individually in theheavanaugh ing. i will work with her the best i can. pris sentencing reform, i know you're going to ask me

about that. am. i'll get to that, i promise. >> i think it's something we can in the lameuck here. >> yeah. >> but i promised diane and all the democrats on the committee to try to find a way to do something on immigration. there are a lot of things we could do on that committee in a bipartisan fashion. >> what it really means is fu're in the middle of a lot of stuff. t i do have a lot to get to here. i want to go to saudi arabia here for a minute. >> yeah. >> we here at nbc news have confirmed that the cia has concluded that the crown prince himself,d mohamn salman, ordered the assassination of "the washington post" journalist and columnist jamal khashoggi. do you accept that assessment? >> i hen't been briefed, but i believe from day one that 15 people, 18,hatever t number was, they don't get on two airplanes, go toury and chop a guy up in the consulate who's a cric of the crown prince without the crown prince having

known about it and sanctioned it. if you know anything about saudi arabia and anything about mbs, the fact that he didn't know about it ise impossible for to believe. if he is going to be the face and the voice of saudi arabia going forward, i think the kingdom will have a hard time on the world stage. they're an important ally, but when it comes to the crown ince, he's irrational, he's unhinged, and i think he's done lot of damage to th relationship between the united states and saudi arabia. fnd i have no intention working with him ever again. >> well, the president seemsta he to name mbs, which is what he is affectionately known, mohammed bin salman for viewers, but i notice that he was not on the sanctions list. is that a mistake? >> well, i want to see what the cia says, but i'm working with z senator menen to invoke the magnitsky act for all we're not going to make these 15

saudi security agents the fall guyhere. i'm going to do whatever i can to place blame where i believe it mes. oing to put it at the feet of the crown prince, been a destructive force in the mideast. he 'embargoed qatar, he put the prime minister of lebanon under house arrest. clearly this guy is a wrecking ball when it comes to the mideast and a relationship with the united states. i hate to say that because i had a lot of hope for him for being theeformer that saudi arabia needs. but that ship has sailed as far as ldsey graham is concerned. >> why do you think the president and jared kushner, his son-in-law, who i know became quite close to mbs, why are they so insistent on trying t salvage mbs here? >> well, i think it's an portant relationship. i'm not telling saudi arabia who to make crown prince or who to fput in charge their country, it's up to them. i am trying to tell them and the

world that whe it comes to the crown prince that exists today, i he has been -- he has shown a lack of appreciation for the relationship. he stepped all over our values, he's put us in a box. i'll leave it up to the president to fin out how to handle saudi arabia from the executive branch side from the legislative branch side, we're goingch to do as as we can as hard as we can to send a signal to the world this is not w the we expect an ally to act. what happened in turkeyte vio every norm of civilized society, and it will not stand. if john mccain were alive todae he'd the first one saying that. >> the crown prince's brother is of course thedo ambas to the united states. his phone call to kshoggi is one of the pieces of evidence used to conclude that, yes, this was an order from mbs. should he be welcomed back to the united states ever again as an ambassador? >> no. >> all right, fair enough. let me move to criminal justice

reform. i had a feeling that would be your answer to that question. >> there's a theme in my answers here, i think. >> oh, yes. no, no, no, i think it's pretty crystallear where you stand on this. let me ask y about the prison reform bill. politico wrote this about tom cotton's oppositio. to on thursday he stepped up his public pot shots at what he's called a jail break proposal. it's ape rccounpaign that one fellow senator believes came at the request of majority leader mitch mcconnell. do you believe the majority leader isrying to quietly kill this bill in theck lame >> no, not really, because tom cotton has had this vw from y one. what we're talking about is basically cating a new sentencing system that will give african-american male and hispanic male detainees a chance get out ofjail, earning their way out of jail. they have been in jail 30 and 40

ars for three nonviolent drug-related offenses, and change our sentencing system to make it more humane and more productive. tom has been on the other side of this. there's 80 votes for this. it's the most bipartisan piece of legislation in the congress today. it m woulde prisons a better place to get people the skieys need to not go back to prison, and it will also change theay weut people in jail. the average sentence in america is eight times higher than anywhere else in the world. for nonviolent offenders, we've gote in jail 30 and 40 years. some of them need to get out of jail and go back to work. i'm urging mitch mcconnell, this bill on the floor. if you put it on the floor, we'll get 80 votes.os we'll get republicans and almost all democrats. let's do it before the end of the year andnt the presis behind it. so mr. president, pick up the phone and call the republica adership of the house and the senate and say we still run this place. bring this billo the floor. senator cotton can have his say

and we'll vote him down. >> but this, you believe the president is going to have to start lobbying mitch mcconnell. >> yes. >> because you haveone everything you could and haven't been able to get him to budge? >> yeah. you know what, the country h nes tol here. one way to bring this country ocgether after the midterms is to on something that matters. i never dreamed that this many republicans andts democ would embrace sentencing reform and prison reform. three strikes and youe out has not worked. now is the time to get it right. let's start 2019 on a positive note. i'm urging senator mcconnell to bring the bill to the floor of the senate. it would get 80 votes. mr. president, pick up the phone and push the republican leadership. the p republicans are tblem here, not the democrats. cory booker has beenery helpful in getting us to yes. there's been some compromises to keep it from being a jailbreak. so i'm ready to vote. >> senator lindsey graham, you had your caffeine this morning, sir. much appreciated. always fun to have you on andou havehare your views. thank you, sir.

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welcome back. panelists here, c nbc editor at large, rich lowry. and yamiche alcindor, and hallie jackson. and rich lowry, editor of national review. i want to react a little bit to lindsey graham. john harwood, there was a bit of a theme in the various questions, whether it ismuhe ler protection bill, up to mitch mcconnell, criminalst e reform bill, up to mitch mcconnell. you saw the passion of lindsey graham. he is ready to fight on one. and not fight as much on the other. >> i was fascinated by his vehemence on the prison reform bill. and mitch mcconnell reflects

some resistance in the if we look base bu at the results of the midterm election, we can see the country moving toward the spirit of criminal justice reform. in florida, when ron desantis was elected governor and it appears that rick scott was elected senator, re than 60% of floridians voted to restore voting rights for felons. 1.5 million people. that is to the detrimenof the republican party. yet republican and democratic voters came together to do it. t iink whether or not this criminal justice reform bill happens in this lame dumb, -- lame duck or some point down the road,e headed down that direction. >> he wants the predent to pick up the phone and call mitch cconnell to tell him to that. >> there are people inside the white house trying to push this, notably jared kushner, who is the big driver when it comes to the bill we're talking about, mitch mcconnell told kushner accoing to a white house official, in september-ish, don't do this before the midterms. if you hold off, making the

commitment, i will give you a floor vote, ive will ou a whip count, not a floor vote but at least a whip count and if you can get there, we will do it after the midterms. will he keep his word to jared kushner? an interesting one. >> notably on the other side of the ledger, he was markedly cool about his own proposal to attack mueller which is zero chance of republican support senate and two, it is probably unconstitutional and i don't know how you can constrain the president from inquiring of an executive official of this nature and if you want a theory that the president can't fl nce, you have to do it out of congress. >> if i could bring you back to criminal justice quickly, i was at the capitol all week talking to lawmakers about this criminal justice bill. and make it very clear, this isi a criminal j bill that could be the most significant criminal justice reform of a generation. people at the national action network, who is the party, who is the organization of al sharpton, there were a lot of lawmakers there that were very,f very wear this. they wanted a lot more sentencing reforms when the

houseailled. come back to friday, i had a long conversation with cory ing to and he said i am be behind this bill, i don't care about the politics, he doesn't care about the fact that this might be looked like a win for president trumpand it is ecause people think that families who were sentenced and who had these issues in the '90d and '8erve to be able to have some of these sentences on crack cocaine andin co and power cocaine redone. >> it sounds like that lindsey graham was saying the sameg, th saying, hey, democrats aren't standing in the way here. it is republicans. g want to go to the idea of the democrats use budget, john, to force a mueller vote here. is that worth the capital that they would be spending? >> ubt it. i don't think that democrats right after anlection in which they have won control of the house of representatives want to make a shutdown their first priority. byhe same token, i don't think we are going to have a shutdown because they don't fund the wall. i think the, these threats, are

made kind of casually thes days. i think both parties have d arned that it is a losing game. would not expect to happen. >> you areay too optimistic. but i think it is funny, i mean december 7 for the spending bill deadline why do i have a feeling wewill stretch this to close to the christmas eve witching hour. >> because you've beenon watch. a rodeo. i think there will be some movement this coming wwik. i spoke a source familiar with the matter overnight who tells me that the presament's legal expects to submit the answers to robert mueller's written questions before thanksgiving. so we're looking at probably tuesday or wednesday that we will all learn that thsu president haitted that. i'm curious to see what the framing of that will be, and if the president's team says now we're done because there are a couple of critical pieces of context, they did notob relate ruction of justice, because the president's legal team refused to engage on that with robert mueller, despite being a key piece to the investigation. d then they're written questions and the president's team can figure out what they want to do. the pr rident toldorters on

the south lawn, as far as what happens next, you have not w talked abother or not to sit down with robert mueller, that's not true. we know for months, the president has had the conversations andte the lega doesn't want him to and the president is saying this morning, this is probably it. there will probably be no more questions, written or in person all, nothing es on obhuruction. and caveat. this is a president who can change his mind and might. >> i'm flattered that y think it is -- >> well, rich, you know only know the president's version of all of this. we don't know why he did the written ae wers. did it under threat of subpoena? did he do it because he knows a subpoenas coming, it is not coming? mueller hasn't spoken. that is a bige.eminder h >> there has clearly been some back and forth of the questions. which you would expect of any special counsel. and any president. but i think the most y is up to ssed st this point, despite trump pounding on mueller, constantly, the white house has cooperated with this probe, and think it

is really impossible to shutter the probe at this point because if you fire mueller he will show up in january as thees first wibefore the judiciary committee and tell everything he knows. so it is too te. >> then what, then why do this whitaker dance? at the end of the day? why do that? because it now seems more head scratching all the time. >> it was i think primarily an act of vengeance against j sessions who he never forgave for the recusal. >> i don't get the sense that matt witaker will be the person that will end up being named permanently. >> lindsey graham seheed to be psabout it. >> pam bondy seems to come up again and again and hn rat clif >> and i think it comes back to the fact that the president could not stand one more day with jeff sessions. i mean the jeff sessions, thert reg is that jeff sessions had offered to resign multiple time, the reporting is that the president has berated him in front of other cabinet members. and of course, we have all seen him on twitter saying this guy is getting on my nerves and he needs to go.

>> the president over time has increasingly yielded to his visceral impulses, and i think matt whitaker reflects that. >> i got to ask quickly, mbs, do you think the united states govement, under president trump, will sanction mbs? >> no. >> echo. >> so how does this get resolved? that is, lindsey graham, not going to carry water for saudi arabia. that was crystal clear, as he, you know, i love the abrupt answer he gave tme about mbs's brother. >> right that i would never work with him again. >> where does this go? >> the question is, that is exactly the question is, our repoing is, as a source familiar with the matter tells us that the ciaas made a determination and mbs isnd be it and his son-in-law has a -- >> and contradicted his former deputy. i>> and the conclusinot final, of course, right, but this administration has had a history, in the past, of when

controversial things come up, you sort of back burner it, back burner it, back burner it, and i wonder if that is something that may end up happening hooer. >> that's what it feels like. we will pause here. when we come back, ohio looks more and more republican and can the democrats even win the state in a presidential election? sherrod brown thinks he can win the state because he just won , but is he running for president? the democratic senator from ohio joins me next. so, they say that ai is the building block of the future. super. but today you're building wind turbines. morning sir. chief, the blade isn't passing quality gate. that's why you work with watson. i detect frictional loss on the midspan. it can detect the tiniest defects from just a few images to help production stay on time and on budget. i optimized the fiberglass finish to reduce frictional loss and maximize airflow. i was also part of the maximizing. for ai that can do more with your data, choose watson.

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are you in good hands? welcmie back. the dterm elections mark the beginning of the 2020 presidential race and there is no semortage ofrats who have suggested they're interested in running against president trump. it is sung a l list, i, as you can see, i have to use a scroll. but onee any democrat faces is ohio. president trump won the state by eight points and ohio held oncoo theressional seats and won every statewide raislast week, except one. >> that is the blueprint for america for 2020. >> a hint perhaps that sherrod brown wants to run and knows how to win as a democrat in an

increasingly red state? brown has been the subject of growing speculation about a possible presidential campaign and he joins me now rom cleveland. senator brown, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be. back. than >> you were out this week, talking about another race in 2018, and it was in georgia, and stacey abrams, it was before she had acknowledg her defeat. she has now admitted didn't call it a concession. i want to ask you something you said this week about georgia. let me play it. >> if stacey abrams doesn't win in georgia, they stole it. it is clear. it is clear. i say that publicly. it is clear. >> strong language. t out there. throw t you believe today, that this is stolen race, basically brian kemp is somebody who is illegally governor-elect of georgia. >> i think if you look t lead-up of the election, i was a

secretary of state in ohio 30 years ago, i know what you do as secretary of state, you encourage people to vote, you don't purge millions of voters and you don't close down pollinu places il areas where voters have difficulty getting to the polls which is mostly low income areas, due cnyou do what voters, have happened all over the country, you have seen the voter suppression all over thet coand you end with the secretary of state of georgia should have recused himself from running that election, as a former resident, former president jimmy carter said he should. and clearly he did eerything could to put his thumb on the scale, and won that election.on quote-unquote,hat election. by only about a point. >> i guess i would ask this. couldn't y bring up all of those issues, lay all of that out, without using the word stolen? utand i throw that there, because we have enough distrust in our institutions as it is.

>> okay, chuck, don't do the false equivalency of the, you know, the lack of respect, and institutions, and we have a president that attacks your profession, day after day after day, if you saw the earlier part eof myction night speech, you would have heard me thank the media and you would have seenf hundredsople in ohio, and the democratic, at this election night gathering, turn around and clap for the media. we see a president that goes after the courts. that goes after the judicial system. a president that says, as the votes were counted, th mething has been wrong with the elections. he criticizes the elections tha way. so don't play this false equivalency, because a former secretary of state like me said that about this election, which clearly is an effort to suppress the vote, not of people who look like you and me, chuck, the people of orcoespecially, and it has happened, i will spend your air time, i don't mean to >> no, no, no. >> spend your air time critical

of those people who are trying to supprots the >> and we spend a lot of time criticizing that, i'm just asking about choice of words and language but i take your point. let's talk about t presidency. you seem to be very comfortable now saying, yes, okay, people are calling me. it is something i'm thinking about. what are theeasons, what are the reasons you're going to tick through to decide whether you're going to do this or not? >> well we've known each other long enough and i think younow that i've not had this lifelong desire to be psident. my dream was to play center field for the cleveland indians. th tini k shut by now. >> analytics aside though, you never know, we need a lot more >> i will talk to bill james and see if it is still possible. election night and after theel tion, connie and i heard from so many people around the country, including some, a lot or activists, a lot of democratic party activists, a lot of citizens that think that a message, not just a message, but a career fighting for workers, where the dignity, i

won my election, because i talk about the dignity of work, whether you swip badge, or punch a clock, whether you work for tips, or whether you work on a salary, whether you're taking care of parents a aging parents or raising children, we don't pay enough attention tf the dignity work. too many people in this country work hard every day. pay their never get ahead. don't have the kind of retirement security they shothd. 's why i won ohio. who i run or not, i'm hopeful that narrative, that message, begins to a part of that narrative,lemong my ues, who want to be president, who it, frankly, for longer than i have. >> you know, a lot of them, do you think an elizabeth warren could car j ohi bide couldn't carry ohio, with your message? >> i think that if people carry this message of the dignity of work, of honoring people and respecting work, make the contrast between the phonyli po of donald trump, where

the white house looks like a retrea for wall street executives, and the real populism, where populism is not racistit it is not anti-semitic, it doesn't push some people down toift others up, i think any one of them can win my state, ifhey makethat contrast, between the phony populism of donald trump, and the dignity of work and a that we stand for and have the -- the democratic party has ways been the party of, we have your back, of working families, and that's what i fight for every day in the senate. >> you won your re-election. and a person that you first defeated to get into the united states senate, someone you defeated handily, mike dewine, also won the governorship. and it is clear that there were some people who voted for both of you. who do you think was the dewine/brown voter and why do you think richar struggle >> i think ohio is becoming a, it is just becoming a more and more conserva state. trump won the state by almost double digits. obviously i won enough of those

voters because i don't look at people as trump voters or clinton voters, i looked at voters as workers and citizens, and i think that, it has been my, it has been my career of fighting f workers, that really helped me win that race, and maybe some of those people apparently voted for mike dewine, too. i dot really know that. but i do know that a career where i've spoken out, one of my first votes in congres against the north american free trade agreement, and i supported it 20 years ago, i supported marriage equali and opposed the iraq war. a long career of, as a ogressive, outspoken, getting things done, always through the prism of >> you know, if you run and win the presidency, a republicanve or would appoint your replacement and believe it or not, you know, a slate, somebody's slate, it is actually writing that is a reason you shouldn't win. writing this. ultimately, the question hanging

over brown isn't whether he is a hod candidate or each a great one, it is whethis so much better than the other 2020 contenders that it would be worth waving his senate seat good-bye. is that a reasonou for to decide yes or no? is that even a fair reason to throw at you? >> well, i ink a lot of people have a lot of time on their hands to project that out. >> i do, too, actually. >> actually, more than 24 months. 26 mths. atever. i don't know. connie and i are still thinking about this. it is an intensely personal decision. with my wife, and my children. my grandchildren don't know enough to know what it means. but it would change their lives. and i need to be aware of all of that. as i make this cision. >> l ask you a couple of things about the upcoming lame duck session. do you think democrats should leverage their votes, particulao lin in the se, for this spending bill, with the mueller protection bill, in the senate? >> i don't know, listened to your interview with lindsey, i do say the priorities in the me duck, one of th major priorities is sentence reform and prison reform.

>> are you all in on that? >> what's that? >> are you all in on that? of course. i have been all in on that for years. and of course, that is as important of a thing that we can do right now. when you have a president, and th president and virtually all democrats, i think, in both houses, and enough republicans, republican leaders like the future chairman of the judiciary committee engaged, senator mcconnell ought to do the people's business here and do it right. >> that should be priority one over the mueller protection bill in your mind? >> that is priority one to me, yes. >> all right. senator sherrod brown, when should we expect an answer? >> i have no timetable. as i said, it is personal, it is sitting down with connie and my family and really figuring things through but thank you for asking. >> all right, bob, somebody from ohio a cleveland indian andan interesting connection between ohio and iowa. >> there it odis. >> sherown, democrat from ohio, we will be watching.

thanks for come canned on an sharing your ews, sir. coming up, ohio may be getting reader but other states are looking bluer. the midterms are changing for the 250k service members who transition out of the u.s. military every year...to ...one of thhest parts is the search for a job that takes advantage of the skills you've gained while serving. you can now search with the phrase 'jobs for veterans' directly on google... ...and then enter your military occupational specialty code. j google brings togeth openings from across the web that match theurkills you gained in ilitary role. just click to apply and use your experience to guide your future. metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless too. mbc doesn't take a day off, and neither will i. and i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio- the only one of its kind that can be taken every day. in fact, verzenio is a cdk4 & 6 inhibitor for postmenopausal women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer, approved,

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welcome back. data download time. let's talk about how the map of presidential swing states has changed following this year's mierm election. some states may be surrendering their position on e battle ground map and other states may be stepping in. look at the 2018 exitpolls. republican won white voter bis ten points. while democrats won hispanic voters by 40. democrats also had a 20 point advantage among college educate voters and democrats and republicans were even among those without a four year degree. what does this mean for 2020? let's start with ohio. which has voted for the winner every presidential election since 1964. a true swing stateand bellwether. but now, it looks safer for republicans. in206, donald trump won the state by a surprising eight otints. in 2018,republicans in competitive house races in the state held on.ik republicandewine won the open race for governor by four points and the incumbent

democratic senator sherrod brown held his seat but is he an outlier. this makes a lot of sense. ohio is lot whiter than th nation as a whole with a much smaller hispanic population and lower than the national average for bachor's degreesid on the flip colorado, a state that has moved squarely the blue column. in 2016, hillary clinton won the narrow a relatively five point margin. in 2018, the one competitively held gop seat flipped blue pretty easily and theouemocrat fromer won the governorship by ten points. and in many ways, colorado is the inverse of ohio. it is more diverse. with a much igherspanic population. and it is above the national average for collegedation. so which states could be taking the place of ohio and colorado in the 2020 battleground map? here are three candidates that m could replace two are red, arizona and georgia. and one is blue, minnesota. it is all mo evidence that the 2018 midterms were less about a reve and more about a realignment that iking the

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john harwo had a democratic strategist who said they wouldn't spentdi anothe there ever again. sherrod brown obviouslyorhinks his vithat is the reason why you need a guy like sherrod brown. what do you say? >> well, you might want spend a few dimes if sherrod brown is the nominee. but look, the states that are drifting away from the democratic party are states that are older, whiter, more blue collar. iowa is exhibit a. >> iowa is exhibit b. >> i was just going to be. that is a good misspeaker th >> exactly. >> so i think democrat, as you suggested in t data download, they are going to be looking at other targets, especially in the sun belt, to try t make up for some of the prospects this dehave anymore. >> and is there room for sherrod brown in this race? >> there might be. i mean he is someone who isn'tg g to cancel himself out. in other ways, when you look at e who is comparing kamala harris and cory booker orab elh warren and bernie sanders. i don't know if he will get the

traction of the other people. i know there are a lar of people whlooking at the democratic party and think whack you learn from the midterms is that you should beg do diversity, not just talking about it. oo i don't know what that means but he is a someone who is very personable. and someone who is kind of telling it like it is. you got to go back and forth and it is not equivalency and the right idea that brian kemp stole the election and that's the fier speak that i think the democratic base wants to hear. >> rich, your column this week, you talk about the president, and you said he is both too populist and not populist enough, you heard sherrod brown basically, he wants to run to take the work back and heli es he can redefine it in a different way. explain what you mean by that, that two populist and not -- too populist and not populistnough and does it leave an opening. >> i think trump relies on stylistic populism overwhelmingly what is repulsive to the women, and possibly the urbans. and you can look at the cost of

education, health care, that has cross-over appeal to the working clags and the suburbs, but trump's personality is so overwhelming, it makes it hard to do that. >> that is one flame that comes up again and again, when you talk about somebody who can tell it like it , andpulist, and democrats being reached out to by variouscaaigns and as well as republicans, who do you think could beat donald trump and there is one name, you know ho it, joe biden. n thehat is one republican side, and by the way, it is so early. >> well, i don't know 2014. donald trump is not on the radar yet. >> that is donald trump. >> and i think the democrats in 2020 are going to be able to beat donald trump. is, he is polarizing. he has a base, but he is not a popular president and i think e e democrats are going to able to -- >> i think donald trump is in the same position now that llary clinton was at this point in time and why you have 17 republicansunning last time and my list is up to 34 in my

scndll there. >> steady state, there is an electoral path for donald trump but heavily reliant on a democratic can date that unacceptable. >> i want to talk about nancy pelosi. she met with a potential opponent, the congresswoman from ohio, and what i found interesting was i ink nanc pelosi had a big impact on marcia about the job. take a listen. >> i'm weighing the enormity of what this job entail, the constant traveling, being away from home all the time with the constituent, the fundraising, i just have to decide if i really want to do this, because it consumes your life. she's done it well. she enjoys doing it. i have to decide if i want too that too. >> that doesn't sound like somebody ready to run. >> that sounded like somebody who, nancy pelosi opened up her calendar and rolodex and said can you do this. and nancy pelosi, the reason why licans, a target of rep a lot of times, are because there are some people who say it is because the fact that she is a woman and there is that argument that i will knowledge, there is also the idea that some people say that republicans don't like nancy pelosi because she is so

effective, she is an effective fundraiser, she is an effective person, who can rally the ba, she can whip those votes, and harley ruda who said he doesn't want to vote for her and isn't going to vote to her, and when i asked during an interview she raised a lot of money for your campaign, and it was said, well, she does that for everybod >> i put together a comp of all of the numbers and they're all figuring out how to get to s. take a learn. >> i'm uncommitted. i ha deep respect anded a admiration pe losy. >> let's see who is running. >> i won't be votingcyor pe losy but she has been an effective saker up to this int. >> i wouldn't be voting for her. nancy pelosi lass done tremendous things for this country, and as speaker, and minority leader and i have heemendous respect for her. >> where is ground swell to dump her? i don't see it. difference a big between what people will do behind closed doors next

wednesday, and that is a point that folks miss, when they can stand up to say i don't want to vote for her and whether you tually do it on the floor in the beginning of january and that's a big difference. >> another key difference, one reason thatwaohn boehner deposed because the rebels against him had an activity and media echo system that was encouraging them to do that and complete opposite on the democratic si m. if theseerates don't buckle, they are going to get hit so hard for being sexist and rll of thest, and ungrateful and all of the rest of it. >> she will be the s because the parts of the job that make her vulnerable, her public ige, a simply not that important. this is an inside job. the part that she is good at is advancing the democratic agenda. >> all right, i got one more thing i want to bring up before we go. and that is, the republican party does not touch the pacific ocean, and much of the pacific ocean anymore. let show you this map. it is not just orange county that has gone all blue there i now not a single congressional district in california represented by republicans that touches the pacific ocean.

in fact, duncan hunter's doesn't. it is jamie up in washington's third distrifa. that is ho north you have to go, john harwood, to find a republican, that represents the pacific ocean. >> look, republicans will have to figure this out.he and i think thing that breaks the logjam in our politics right now is when the republican party, in a concerted way, begins to appeal to votes outside the existing base of whites. that hasn't happened. we thought it would happen after 2012. that is going to be the next phase of the republican party. has to. > california republicans los their lone latino assembly member in the sweep of great job, guys. thanks very much. that's all we have for today. thanks fo watching. have a happy and safe thanksgiving. it is our best holiday bring people together. use it to do that, everybody. see you next week. because if it's sunday, it'ss. "meet the pr"