this sunday lashingutt mueller. president trump sayse's finished answering the special counsel's written questions. >> i write the my lawyers don't write answers, i write answers. >> an deposgoes back on the att against robert mueller. >> it's a hoax. the whole thing is a hoax.o there was n collusion. >> with more indictments expected soon, democrats woman a bim to protect muel mitch mcconnell says no. lindsey graham says the investigation is safe. could a showdown over mueller lead to athshutdown of government. this morning i'll talk to south carona republican senator lindsey graham. plus the cia determines that saudi crown prince mohammed bin salman ordered the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. but will president trump accept that conclusion. >> we also have a greatll ay in

saudi arabia. also, the democrats ohio hope. >> let them hear wt we say. let them see what we do. >> is sherrodrown the democrat who can win back ohio and working class voters in the midwest? >> that is the blueprint for america for 2020. >> he sounds like he's running fo presiden is he? my interview this morning with senator sherrod brown of ohio. and mapquest, why both parties can find encouraging signs and danger signals for 2020. joining me are nbc news white house correspondent hallie jackson, rich lowry, editor of "national review." yamiche alcindor, and cnbc editor at large, john harwd. lcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd.

well, a goodin sunday mo everybody. for nearly two months we've heard little from special counsel robert muelle nor have we heard much about mueller from president trump. they both wentquiet. it's possible the silence has worked in mr. trump's favor. the midterm exit poll found that 46 of those polled disapproved of mueller's handling of the russia investation. that'sf course almost exactly equal to the president's job can house the repub vote share. just 41% approved of the mueller probe. erbut with the mi elections over, the president unloaded this week on mueller and his investigion both in tweets a in an interview with "the daily caller." at led to the outburst? is it because new indictments are expected soon, possibly including the president's son,d ld trump jr.? is the prospect of a democrat majority in the house launchingf a ton investigations? is it the bipartisan criticism of his choe of matt whitaker to be the acting attorney general, tr is it fact that he had to answer any written questions at all from mueller which heno aedged doing this

week. whatever the reason mr. trump is turning up the temperature again on the special counsel just as the prospect of a government shutdown gets linked to over whether we want to protect mueller from the president. >> have you submitted your answerso the special counsel? >> no, we do that next ekwe. they're all done. mp revealing t that after nearly a year of negotiations, he has answered written questions from robert mueller. >> i write the answers. my lawyers don't write answers, i anite ers. >> mr. trump accused prosecutors of setting a perjury ap. >> i sure they're tricked up. gee, was the weather sunny or was it rainy? stead it may have been a good day, it was rainy, therefore he told a lie, he perjured himself. >> on thursday the president tweeted without evidence that r' muel team is screaming and shouting at people, horribly threatening them to come up the answers they want. >> on twitter yesterday seemed a bit agitated about what you might bell perceiving the m investigation --

>> no, i'm not agitated. it's a hoax. >> and in an nterview with the the daily caller" when asked with who's he considering for a permanent replacent for jeff sessions, the president brought up a mueller probe saying it's something that shoend have never brought. it's an illegal investigation. >> in theory it's not an investigation of me but it's -- as far as i'm concerned, i like to take everything personally because you do better that way. >> this lawyers challenging the legality of acting attorney general matt whitaker's appointment took their case to f e supreme court. >> i think a lote questions involving mr. whitaker and the acting a.g. could be elimined if we had a nominee. >> as a commentator on cnn he defended ways to weake the mueller probe by defunding it and vox said that he privatelyo ed advice to the president last year on how he might be able to pressure the justice department to investigate mr. president trump's political adversaries, including hillary clinton, andven pressure the stice department to name a

second special counsel to investigateher. >> why in the world we would be so sangwine about this is beyond me. >> jeff flake says he w vote for any more of the president's nominees until the senate protects mueller's job. >> he's suggested ways to diminish the probe, t starve i of funding, for example. >> and there's this teat from democrats. >> if whitaker does not recuse himself, we democrats areoing to attempt to add legislation to the must-pass spending billth i lame duck session that will prevent acting attorney general whitaker from interfering with the mueller investigation in any way. >> but so far republican senate leader mitch mcconnell is refusing to bring any mueller bill to the floor. we know how the president feels about the mueller investigation, but he's never said he wants to shut it down. >> and joining me now is republican senatoriney graham of south carolina, who is likely to be the nextth head of

judiciary committee next year. senator graham, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you very much. >> and i don't mean to get ahead of things onjudiciary. i know that that is not a done deal yet, but it is likely. >> not yet. >> let me start with somethingt senator mcconnell said there at the end of our piece, that the president, despite all of the noise the president hasn'threatened to shut it down. he has quite a bit on twitter want it shut down, has sort of said in the ether he would like it to be down. are you confident the president or the acting is not going to shut down this probe? >> i'm very confident. it would be a disaster for the republican party, for the muelle investigation to be terminated or shut down or played with. it's close to the end, let's see what he finds. i can understand why the president doesn't like the fvestigation. ls wronged by it. i remember the clinton/ken starr episode pretty well.

this is standard practice. but i think most republicans on capitol and democrats believe that mr. mueller should be t allowdo his job and i have no indication he's going to be interfered wit at all. >> i know you said you would support this bill, essentially the mueller protection bii . ink you voted for it in committee. >> yeah. >> in the judiciary. democrats have tald about connecting it to the spending bill a using their votes in the house that will be needed as leverage. do you support that move? >> not really, but i think mitch should bring it to theloor and let's vote on it. jeff flake says he's not going to support jges until we get a vote on the mueller protection bill, which i wrote, by the way. some people think it's up constituti -- unconstitutional. i feel good about it. i think the best thing the senate can do is bring it floor and vote on it. >> why won't the senator do that? he seems pretty adamant. we've had our own reporting on is. senator flake and senator mcconnell got into it a little

bit. you were probaomy in the what can you tell us about why senator mcconnell is the roadblock here? >> well, he thinks it's unconstitutial. he think it's not necessary. again, i helped draft the bthl enator booker. i think it's constitutional and i'd like to vote on it. having said all that, i don't see any indication att all t the mueller probe is going to be interfered with myr. whitaker or president trump. but he's the majority leader, not me. if it were upo me, we'd be voting on the bill and see where the votes are at. >> do you think the gambit by democrats to connect ito the spending bill will change senator mcconnell's mind? >> oh, i don't know. eonce you g into that kind of stuff it never ends. it might be counterproductive leader themajority have a thousand demands. if they link all of them to shut down the government, it's probably counterproductive to threaten that, i would think. >> you met with the new acting attorney general. >> yeah. >> a couple things. you said tha it would be a mistake, a disaster for

republicans earlier in ourre interview >> yeah. >> that if theyven messed with it at all. are you confident that the new acting attorney general is letting the probe go? he's not going to touch funding, not going to interfere at all? >> yeah, i am. oi said that he's to support the regular order of process. unde the law, special counsels report to the deputy attorney general and any recommendatio are sent up to the attorney general, in this case the acting atto sey general. d he's going to let regular order prevail here. in other words, he's not going to reach out and try to stop the investigation. >> so he's letting -- >> he's not going to cut out of funding. >> does this mean rod rosenstein still oversees mueller? he's in the chain of command. the initial report comes to the deputy att whatever the request is by the special counsel. that goes up to the actin attorney general for final approval. he's in the chain of command, but the final decision-making would be by mr. whitaker. >> after meeting with him, if the president nominated him as a

permanent c replacemenld you imagine supporting him? >> too early totell. you know, he was a u.s. attorney years, h and a half was sessions' deputy for a year and a half. he said some things that would prably be problematic to be confirmed. but having said that, i was very impressed with his attitude, his professionalism, and he's got a very solid resume. so i wouldhe encourage president to pick somebody fairly soon so we can have a permanent attorneingeneral going the first part of next year. >> does that mean not mr.he whitakeryou say you'd like him to nominate someone very soon? >> no, that's up to the t. presid you asked me about mr. whitaker. i have nothing against him. si don't know if h the best choice. you hear about mr. orbarr,r attorney general. that's a good choice. there are a lot of good names out there. i would encourage the president to start 2019 a w soon ascan with a new attorney general that he has confidence in and we can get confirmed. >> the fact that you name dropped the former attorney general, mr. barr, does that mean that's your preference? that's your first choice?

>> no, it means i read the paper and his name is in i a lot. that's a. it won'te me, let's start with that. it's not going to be me. he's got a lot of good choices, i'm not one of them. >> i take your point on that one. let me ask you about, you have indicated an openness to a second special counsel. you're now -- >> yeah. >> -- likely going to be head of the judiciary committee. why jump to a second special counsel? why can't you do it first? why can't it be done in congresd before you d you need a special counsel? >> well, the one thing i'm not suggesting is that we go back and try to reprosecute secretary clinton. that's not what i'm suggesting. i am suggesting that the people at the department of justice ane fbi in thely stages of the russian investigation, the dossier was ud to get a fisa warrant that i think was very inappropriate. ere seems to be some political bias about how the clinton e-mail investigation was

handled. to need to get to the b of all that, but i'm not suggesting that we prosecute her. and let me take a shot at this e and maybe youright, maybe the committee can do it. but i'll let you know more early next yorear. we're definitely going t look at this stuff. >> speaking of the committee, it feels as if senators grassley and feinstein, the relationship broke apart,. ok and we can come up with a lot of theories as to why. whatdore you going to repair the damage that was done during the kavanaugh hearings in the judiciary committee? >> well, the kavanaugh hearings were -- i think did a lot of damage to the committee and to they,judicind we've got to start off over. the good thing about elections, uck, is it's a restart, it's a reset of democracy. we've got a new group of people coming in, it's a fresh start. i like diane. i don't think she did anything inappropriate individually in the kavanaugh hearing. i will work with her the best i can. prison and sentencing reform, i know you're going to ask me

about that. am. i'll get to that, i promise. >> i think it's something we can in the lameuck here. >> yeah. >> but i promised diane and all the democrats on the t committe to find a way to do something on immigration. there are a lote of things could do on that committee in a bipartisan fashion. >> what it really means is you're in the middle of a lot of stuff. in fact i do have a lot to get to here. i want to go to saudi arabia here for a minute. >> yeah. >> we here at nbc news have confirmed that the cia has concluded that the crown prince himself,d mohamn salman, ordered the assassination of "theashington post" journalist and columnist jamal khashoti. do you acchat assessment? >> i haven't been briefed, but i believe from day one that 15 people, 18, whatever the number was, they don't get on two airplanes, go toury and chop a guy up in the consulate who's a cric of the crown prince without the crown prince having known about it and sanctioned

it. if you know anything about saudi arabia and anything about mbs,t fact that he didn't know about it is impossible for me to believe. if he is going to be thehe face and voice of saudi arabia going forward, i think the kingdom will have a hard time on the worldstage. they're an important ally, but when it comes to the crown ince, he's irrational, he's unhinged, and i thi he's done a lot of damage to the united ship between the states and saudi arabia. and i have no intention of working with him ever again. >> well, the president seems hesitant to name mbs, which is what he is affectionately known, mohammed bin salman for viewers, but i notice that he was not on the sanctions list. is that a mistake? >> well, i want to see what the cia says, but i'm working with senator menendez to invoke the magnitsky act for all concerned. we're not going to make these 15 saudi security agents the fall

guy here. i'm going to do whatever i can to place blame where i believe it mes. oing to put it at the feet of the crown prince, been a destructive force in the mideast. heembargoed qatar, he put the prime minister of lebanon under arrest. clearly this guy is a wrecking ball when it comes tthe mideast and a relationship with the united states. i hate to say that because i had a lot of hope for him for being theeformer that saudi arabia needs. but that ship has sailed as far as ldsey graham is concerned. >> why do you think the president and jared kushner, hi- -law, who i know became quite close to mbs,re whyhey so insistent on trying to salvage mbs here? >> well, i think it's an important relationship. i'm not telling saudi to make crown prince or who to put in charge of their country, it's up to them. i am trying to tell them and the world that whe it comes to the

crown prince that exists today, i he has been -- he has shown a lack of appreciation for the relationship. he stepped all over our values, he's put us in a box.ve i'll l it up to the president to find out how to handle sau arabia from the executive branch side. from the legislative branch side, we're goingch to do as as we can as hard as we can to send a signal to the world this is not w the we expect an ally to act. what happened in turkeyte vio every norm of civilized society, and it will notd. st if john mccain were alive today, he'd be the first one saying that. >> the crownprince's brother is of course the ambassador to the united stes. his phone call to khashoggi is one of the pieces of evidence used to conclude that, yes, this was an order from mbs. should he be welcomed back to the united states ever again as an ambassador? >> no. >> all right, fair enough. let me move to criminal justice reform. i ha a feeling that would be

your answer to that question. there's a theme in my answers here, i think. >> oh, yes. no, no, no, i think it's pretty crystal clear where you stand on this. let me ask y about the prison reform bill. politico wrote this about tom cotton's oppositio. to on thursday he stepped up his public pot shots at what he's call a jail break proposal. it's ape countercampaign that one fellowe senator believes c at the request of majority leader mitch mcconnell. do you believe the majority leader is trying to quietly kill this bill in theck lame >> no, not really, because tom cotton has had this vw from y one. what we're talking about is basically cating a new sentencing system that will give african-erican male and hispanic male dainees a chance to get out of jail, earning their way out of jail. they have been in jail 30 and 40 years for three nonviolent

drug-related offenses, and change our sentencing system to make it more humane and more productive. tom has been on the other side of this. there's 80 votes f this. it's the most bipartisan piece ofis ltion in the congress today. it would make prisons a better place to get people the skills they need to not go back to a prison it will also change the way we put people in jail. the average sentence in america is eight times higher than anywhere else in the world. for nonviolent offenders, we've gote in jail 30 and 40 years. some of them need to get out of work.nd go back to i'm urging mitch mcconnell, put this bill on the floor. if you put it on thefloor, we'll get 80 votes. we'll get most republicans and almost all ledemocrats. s do it before the end of the year and the president is behind it. so mr. president, pick up the phone and call the republica adership of the house and the senate and say we still run this place. bring this billo the floor. senator cotton can have his say and we'll vote him down.

>> but this, you believe the president is going to have to start lobbying mitchne mcc. >> yes. >> because you have done everything you could and haven't been able to get him to budge? >> yeah. you know what, the country needs to heal here. one way to bring thisountry together after the midterms is to focus on something that matters. i never dreamed that this many republicans andts democ would embrace sentencing reform and prison reform. three strikes and youe out has not worked. now is the time to get it right. let's start a2019 on positive note. i'm urging senator mcconnell to bring the bill to the floor o the senate it would get 80 votes. mr. president, pick up the phonh and p the republican leadership. the republicans are the problem here, not the democrats. cory booker has been very helpful in getting us to yes. there's been some compromises to keep it from being a jailbreak. so i'm ready to vote. >> senator lindsey graham, you had your caffeine this morning, sir.mu appreciated. always fun to have you on and have you share your views. thank you,>> sir. thank you.

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welcome back. panelists here, c nbc editor at large, rich lowry. and yamiche alcindor, and hallie jackson. and rich lowry, editor of national review. i want to react a little bit to lindsey graham. john harwood, there was a bit of a themee in rious questions, whether it is the mueller protection bill, up t mitch mcconnell, criminal justice reform bill, up to mit mcconnell. you saw the passion of lindsey graham. he is ready to fight on one. and not fight as much on the other. >> i was fascinated by his vehemence on the prison reform bill. and mitch mcconnell rlects

some resistance in the republican base but if we look at the results of the midterm election, cane the country moving toward the spirit of criminal justice reform. inlo fda, when ron desantis was elected governor and it k appears that rott was elected senator, more than 60% of floridians voted toeore voting rights for felons. 1.5 million people. that is to the detriment of the republican party. yet republican and democratic voters came together to do it. i think whether or not this criminal justice reform bill happens in this lame dumb, -- lame duck or some point down the road, we're headed down that direction. >> h wants the president to pickp the phone and callitch mcconnell to tell him to do that. >> there are people inside the white house trying to push this, notably jared kushner, who is the big driver when it comes to the bill we're talking mitch mcconnell told kushner according to a white house official, in september-ish, don't do thi before the midterms. if you hold off, making the

commitment, i will give you a flr vote, i will give you a whip count, not a floor vote but at least a whip count and if you can get there, we will do it after the midterms. will he keep his word to jared kushner? an interesting one. >> notably on the other side of the ledger, he was markedly cool about his own proposal to attack mueller whiceis zero cha of republican support in the senate and two, it is proba unconstitutional and i don't know how you can constrain the esident from inquiring of an executive official of this theoryand if you want a that the president can't influence, you have to do it out of congress. >> if i could bring you back to criminal justice quickly, i was at the capitol all week talking to lawmakers about this criminal justice bill. and make it very clear, this is a criminal justice bill that could be the most significantti criminal j reform of a generation. at the national action network, who is the party, who is the organization of al sharpton, thfe were a lot lawmakers there that were very, very weary of this. they wanted a lot more sentencingreforms when the

house bill passed. come back to friday, i had a long conversation with cory booker and he said i am goin be behind this bill, i don't care about the politics, he doesn't care about the fact that this might b l looke a win for president trump, and it is because people think that families who were sentenced and who had these issues in the '90s and '80s deserbe able to have some of these sentences on crack cocaine and cocaine and power cocaine redone. >> it sounds like that lindsey graham was saying the samea thing,ng, hey, democrats aren't standing in the way here. it is republicans. >> i wan go to the idea of the democrats using the budget, john, to force a mueller vote here. is that worth the capital that they would be spending? >> doubt it. i don't think that democrats right after an election in which they havel won cont the house of representatives want to make a shutdown their first priority. by the same token, i don't think we are going to have a shutdown because they don't fund the wall. i think the, these threats, are

made kind of casually these days. i think both parties he learned that it is a losing game. and i would not expect to happen. >> you are way too optimistic. but i think it is funny, i me december 7 for the spending bill deadline why do i have a feeling we will stretch this to close to the christmas eve witching hour. >> because you've been on watch. a rodeo. i think there will be some movement this coming week. i spoke with a source familiar with the matter overnight who tells me that the president's legal team expects to submit the answers to robert eller's written questions before thanksgiving. so we're looking at pr tuesday or wednesday that we will all learn that the president has submitted that. i'm curious to ee what the framing of that will be, and if the president's team says now we're done because there are a couple of critical pieces of context, they did not relioe to obstruof justice, because the president's legal team refused to engage on that with robert mueller, despite being a kee to the investigation. and then they're written tuestions and the president's team can figure what they want to do. the president told reporters on

the south lawn, as far asha wha ens next, you have not talked about whether or not to sit down with robert mueller, that'sot true. we know for months, the president has had the conversations and the legal team doesn't want him to and the president is saying this morning, this is probably it. there will probably be no more questions, written or in person at all, nothines on obstruction. and a huge caveat. this is a president who can change his mind and might. >> i'm flattered that you think it is -- >> well, rich, you know, we only know the president's version of all of this. we don't know why he did the written answers. did he do it under threat of subpoena? did he do it because he knows a subpoena is coming, it is not coming? mueller hasn't spoken. that is a big reminder here. >> there has clearly been some back a forth of the questions. which you would expect of any special counsel. and any president. but i thinkthe most under-discussed story is up to this point, despite trump poundi m onller, constantly, the white house has cooperated wih this probe, and ik it is really impossible to shutter

the probe at this point b ause if you fire mueller he will show up in january as the first witness before the judiciary committee and tell everything ow so it is too late. >> then what, then why do this whitaker dance? at the end of the day? why doca that? e it now seems more head scratching all the time. >> iwas i think primarily an act of vengeance against jeffio se who he never forgave for the recusal. >> i don't get the sense that matt whitaker will be the person that will end up being named permaneny. >>indsey graham seemed to be psyched about it. >> pam bondy seems to come up againnd again and john rat cliff. >> and i think it comes back to the fact that theul president not stand one more day with jeff sessions. i mean the jeff sessions, theha reporting is jeff sessions had offered to resign multiple time, the reporting ith that president has berated him in front of other cabinet members. and of course, we have all seen him on twitter saying this guy is getting on my nerves and he needs to go.

>> the president over time has increasingly yielded to his visceral impulses, and i think matt whitaker reflects that. >> i got to ask uickly, mbs, do you think the united states government,nder president trump, will sanction mbs? >>o. >> echo. >> so how does this get that is, lindsey graham, not going to carry water for saudi arabia. that was crhtal clear, a you know, i love the abrupt answer he gave to me abo mbs's brother. >> right that i would never work with him again. >> where does this go? >> the question is, that is exactly the question is, our reporting is, as a source familiar with the matter tells us that the cia has made a determination and mbs is behind it and his son-in-law has a -- >> and contradicted his former deputy. >> andhe conclusion is no final, of course, right, but this administration has had a history, in the past, of when

controversial things come up,t you s back burner it, back burner it, back burner it, and i wonder if that is something that may end up happening hooer. >> that's what it feels like. we will pause here. when we come back, ohio looks more and more republican. and can the democrats even win the state in a presidential election? sherrod brown thinks he can the state because he just won it, but is he running for president? the democratic senator from ohio joins me next. (clockicking) (bell ringing) it's time. time for a new kind of cloud. the ibm cloud. the cloud that proactively protects your business from threats, instead of just reacting to them. that lets you modernize and move more of your apps without re-writing. that unlocks insights from all your data and puts it to work with ai. get a faster, more secure journey to the cloud. the ibm cloud. the cloud for smarter business. ♪ ♪

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a moment of joy. a source of inspiration. an act of kindness. an old friend. a new beginning. some welcome relief... or a cause for celebration. what's inside? ♪ [laughter] possibilities. what we deliver by delivering. welcome back. the midterm elections mark the beginning of the 2020 presidential race and there is no shortage of democrats who haveuggested they're interested in running against president trump. it is such a long i list,as

you can see, i have to use a scroll. but one hurdle any democrat faces is ohio. president trump won shete by eight points and ohio held on to the congressionaleats and won every statewide raise last wee except one. >> that is the blueprint for america for 2020. >> a hint perhaps that sherrodo wants to run and knows how to win as a democrat in an ineasingly red state? brown has been the subject of growing speculatiib about a po presidential campaign and he joins me now from clevelr d. senabrown, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be back. thanks. >> youere out this week, talking about another race in 2018, and it was in georgia, and stacey abrams, it was before she had acknowledged her defeat. she has now admitted defeat. didn't call itn. concess i want to ask you something you said this week about georgia. let me play it. >> if stacey abrams doesn't win

in georgia, they st it. it is clear. it is clear. i say that publicly. it is clear. >> strong language. to cloe th-- throw that out the. you believtay, that this is a stolen race, basically brian kemp is somebody who is illegally governor-elect of georgia. >> i think if you look to the lead-upec of the on, i was a secretary of state inio 0 years ago, i know what you do as secretary of state, you encourage people to vote, you don't purge millions of voters and you don't close down polling places in rural areas where voters have difficulty getting to the polls which is mostly low income areas, due you don't do voters, have happened all over the country, you have seen the voter suppression all over the country and you end with the secretary of state of georgia should have recused himself from running that electn, as a

former resident, former president jimmy carter said he should. and clearly he did everything he couldo put his thumb on the scale, and won that election. quote-unquote, won that election. by only about a point. >> i guess i would ask this. couldn't you bring up a of those issues, lay all of that out, without using the word stolen? here, throw that out because we have enough distrust in our institutions as it is. >> okay, chuck, don't do the false equivalency of the, you know, the lack of respect, and instutions, and we have a president that attacks your ofession, day after day after day, if you saw the earlier part of my election night speech, you would have heard me thank the media and you would have seen hundreds of people in ohio, and the democratic, at this election night gathering, turn around and idap for the media. we see a prt that goes after the courts. that goes after the judicial system. a president that says, as the

votes were counted, that something hason been with the elections. on criticizes the elections that way. so play this false equivalency, because a former secretary of state likaid that about this election, which clearly is an effo to suppress the vote, not of people who look like you and me, chuck, the people of color, especially, and itas happened, i will spend your air time, i don't mean to lecture -- >> no, no, o. >> spend your air time critical of those people who are trying to suppress the vote. >>nd we spend a lot of time criticizing that, i'm justho asking aboute of words and language but i take your point. let's talk about theseresidency. yo to be very comfortable now saying, yes, okay, people are calling me. i something i'm thinking about. what are the reasons, whatth ar reasons you're going to tick through to decide whether you're going to do this or not? >> well we've known each other long enough and i think you know that've not had this lifelong desire to be president. my dre was to play center

field for the cleveland indians. i think that door is probably shut by now. >> analytics aside though, you never know, we need a lot more players these days. >> i willil talk tojames and see if it is still possible. election night and after the heard n, connie and i from so many people around the country, including some, a lot of labor activists, a lot of democratic party activists, a lot of citizens that think that a message, not just a message, but a career fighting for rkers, where the dignity, i won my election, because i talk about the dignity of work, whether you swipe a badge, or punch a clock, whether you work for tips, owhether you work on a salary, whether you're taking care of parents and aging parents raising children, we don't pay enough attention to the dignity of wor too many people in this country work hard every day. pay their dues. never get ahea don't have the kind of retirement security they should. that's why i won ohio. who i run or not, i'm hopeful that narrative, that message, begins to be a part of that

narrative, among my colleagues, who want to be president, who have dreamed of it, frankly, for longer than i have. >> you know, a lot of them, do you think an elizabeth warren could carry ohio, joe't bide coularry ohio, with your message? >> i think that ifpeople carry this message of the dignity of work, of hndoring people respecting work, make the contrast between the phony populism of donald trump, where the white house looks like a retreat for wall street executives, and the real populism, where populism is not racist, it it is not anti-semitic, it doesn't push some people down to lift others up i think any one of them can win my state, if they make that contrast, between the phony populism of donald trump, and the dignity of work and all that we stand for and have the -- the democratic party has always been the party of, have your back, of working families, and that's what i fight for every day in the senate. >>ou won your re-election.

and a person that you first defeated to get into the united states senate, someone you defeated handily, mike dewine, also won the governorship. and it is clear that there were some peopl bwho voted fh of you. who do you think was the dewine/brown voter and why do k u think richard struggled? >> i thio is becoming a, it is just becoming a more and more conservative state. trump won thstate by almost double digits. obviously i won enough of those voters because i don't look at people as trump voters or clinton voters, i looked at voters a workers and citizens, and i think that, it has been my, it has been my career of fighting for woers, that really helped me win that race, and maybe some tfose people apparently voted for mike dewine, too. i don't really know that. but i do know that career where i've spoken out, one of my rst votes in congress was against the north american free trade agreement, and ied suppo

it 20 years ago, i supported marriage equality and opposed the iraq war. a long career of, as a progressive, outspoke getting things done, always through the prism of workers. >> you know, if you run and win the presidency, a republican governor would appoint your replacement d believe it or not, you know, a slate, somebody's slate, it is actually writing that is a reason you shouldn't win. writing this. ultimately, the questionanging over brown isn't whether he is a good candidate or each a great much it is whether he is s better than the other 2020 contenders that it would be worth waving his senate seat good-bye. is that a reason for to you decide yes or no? is that even a fair reason toro at you? >> well, i think a lot of people have a lot of time on their handto project that out. >> i do, too, actually. >> actuay, more than 24 months. 26 months. whatever. i don't know. connie and i are still thinking about this. it is an intensely personal decision. with my wife, and my children. myt grandchildren do know enough to know what it means. but it would change theird live.

i need to be aware of all of that. as i make this decision. >> let me ask you a couple of things about the upcoming lame duck s do you think democrats shoul leverage their votes, particular lin in the house, for this spending bill, with ther muel protection bill, in the senate? >> i don't know, i listened to your interviewlindsey, i do say the priorities in the lame duck, one of the major priorities is sentence reform and prison reform. >> are you all in on that? >> what's that? >> are you alln on that? >> of course. i have been all in on that for years. and ofourse, thats as important of a thing that we can do right now. when you have a psident, and the president and virtually all democrats, i think, in both houses, and enough republicans, publican leaders like the future chairman of the judiciary ed, senator g mcconnell ought to do the people's business here and do it right. >> that should be priority one over the mueller protection bill your mind? that is priority one to me, yes. >> all right.

senator sherrod brown, when shld we expect an answer? >> i have no timetable. as i said, it is personal, it is sitting down with connie and my family and really figuring things through but thank you for asking. >> all right, bob, somebody from ohio a cleveland indian and an interesting connection between ohio and iowa >> there it is. >> sherrod brown, democrat from ohio, we will be watching. ome canned on an sharing your views, sir. coming up, ohio may be getting read but other states are looking for the 250k servion members who transiut of the u.s. military every year... ...one of the toughest parts is the search for a job that takes advantage of the skills ...one of the toughest parts you've gained while serving. you can now search with the phrase 'jobs for veterans' direly on google... ...and then enter your military occupational specialty code. google brings together job openings from across the web that match the skills you gained in your military role. just click to apply and use your experience to guide your future.

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republican won white voter bis ten points. while democrats won hispanic voters by 40. democrats also had a 20 point adntage among college educated voters and democrats and republicans were even among thos without a four year degree. what does this mean for 2020? let's start oitho. which has voted for the winner in every presidential election since 1964. a true swing state and bellwether. but now, it looks safer for publicans. 2016, donald trump won the state by a surprising eightin . in 2018, both republicans in competitive house races in the state held on. republican mike dewine won the open race for governor bfour points and the incumbent democratic senator sherrod brown held his seat but isan h outlier. this makes a lot of sense. ohio is lo whiter than the nation as a whole with a much r hispanic population an lower than the national average for bachor's degrees. on the flip side, colorado a state that has moved squarely to ce blue column.

in 2016, hillanton won the state by a relatively narrow five point margin. in 2018, the one competitively held gop seat flipped blue pretty easily and the democrat from boulder won the governorship by ten points. and in many ways, colorado is thf inverseohio. it is more diverse. with a much higher hispanic population.t and above the national average for college education. so which states kiuld be t the place of ohio and colorado in the 2020 battleground map? here are three candidates that could replace them. zona an red, a georgia. and one is blue, minnesota. it is all more evidence that the 2018 midterms were less about a wave and more about a realignment that is remaking the way we understand american politics, at least in the era of donald trump. when we come back, the battle when we come back, the battle for speaker of metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless too. mbc doesn't take a day off, and neither will i. and i treat my mbc with new everyday verzenio- the only one of its kind that can be taken every day.

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all right,hio. thhn harwood, i had a democratic strategist who sai wouldn't spent another dime there ever again. sherrod brown obviously thinks his victory that is the reason why you need a guy like sherrod brown. what do you sll? >> wyou might want to spend a few dimes if sherrod brone is the no but look, the states that are drifting away from the democratic party are states that are older, whiter, more blue collar. iowa is exhibit a. >> iowa is exhibit b. >> i was just going to be. at is a good misspeak there. >> exactly. >> so i think democras you suggested in the data download, they are going to be looking at other targets, especially in the sun belt, to try to make up for some of the prospects this >> and is there room for sherrod brown in this race? >> there might be. i mean hene is somho isn't going to cancel himself out. in other ways, whok you at someone who is comparing kamala harris and cory booker or elizabeth warren and bernie

sanders. i don't know if he will get the traction of the otheri people. ow there are a lot of people who are looking at the democratic party and think whack you learn from the midterms is at you should be doing diversity, not just talking about it. so i don know whathat means but he is also someone who is very personable. and i someone whokind of telling it like it is. you got to go back and forth and it is not equivalency and the rightid that brian kemp stole the election and that's the fiery speak that i think the democratic base wants to hear. >> rich, yk,r column this w you talked about the president, and you said he is both too populist and not populist enough, you heard sherrod brown basically, he wants to run to take the work back and he believes he can redefine it in a different way. explain what you mean by that, that two populist and not -- too list and not populist enough and does it leave an >> i think trump relies on stylistic populism overwhelmingly what isepsive to the women, and possibly the

urbans. and you can look at the cost of education, health care, that hao cross-over app the working clags and the suburbs, but trump's personality is so overwhelming, it makes it hard to do that. >> that is oneme fhat comes up again and again, when you talk aboutdy some who can tell it like it is, and populist, democrats being reached out to by various campaigns andlis well as repns, who do you think could there is one name, you know ho it, joe biden. and that is one on the republican side, and by theway, it is so early. >> well, i don't know, 2014. donald trump is not on the radar yet. >> that is donald trump. >> and i think the democrats in 2020 are going to be able to beat donald tr is, he is polarizing. he has a base, but he is not a popular president and i think the democrats are going to be able to -- >> i think donald trum in the same position now that hillary clinton was at this int in time and why you have 17 republicans running last time and my list is up to 34 my

scroll there. >> and steady state, there is an electoral path for donald trump but heavily reliant on a democratic candidate that is ouacceptable. >> i want to talk nancy pelosi. she met with a potential opponent, thean congresswrom ohio, and what i found interesting was i think nancy pelosi had a big impact on marcia about the job. take a listen. >> i'm weighing the enormity of what this job entail, the constant traveling, being ay from homl the time with the constituent, the fundraising, i just have to decide if i rdoall want tthis, because it consumes your life. she's done it we. she enjoys doing it. i have to decide if i want to do that too. >> that does sound like somebody ready to run. >> that sounded like who, nancy pelosi opened up her calendar and rolodex and said this.u do and nancy pelosi, the reason why she was a target of republicans, a lot of times, are because there are some people who say iu is b the fact that she is a woman and there is that argument that i will acknowledge, there is also the idea thae people say that

republicans don't like nancy pelosi because she is so effecte, she is an effective fundraiser, she is an effective person, who can rally the base, she can whip those votes, and harley ruda who said he doesn't want to vote for her and isn't going to vote to her, and when i asked during aninterview, and she raised a lot of money formp your gn, and it was said, well, she does that for everybody. >> i put together a comp of aler of the numbs and they're all figuring out how to get to yes. take a learn. >> i'm uncommitted. i have deep respect anded a admiration pe losy. >> let's see who is running. >> i won't be voting for nancy pe losy but she has been aniv effe speaker up to this point. >> i wouldn't be voting for her. nancy pelosi lass done trendous things for this country, and as speaker, and as nority leader and i have tremendous respect for her. >> where is the ground swellmp her? i don't see it. >> there is a big difference between what people will do

behind closed doors next wednesday, and that is a point that folks miss, when they can std up to say i don't want to vote for her and whether you actually do it on the floor in the beginning of january and that's a big difference. >> another key difference, one reason that john boehner was deposed because the rebels against him had an activity and media echo system that was encouraging them to do that and comple opposite on the democratic side. if these moderates don't buckle, they are going to get hit so hard for being sexist and all of the rest, atd unul and all of the rest of it. >> she will be the speaker because the rts of the job that make her vulnerable, her public image, are simpltanot that imp. this is an inside job. the part that she ist good is advancing the democratic agenda. >> all right, i got one more up beforant to bring we go. and that is, the republican party does not touch the pacific ocean, and much of the pacific ocean anymore. let me show you this map. it is not just orange county that has gone all blue there is now not a single congressional district in california represented by republicans that touches t pacific ocean.

in fact, duncan hunter's doesn't. it is jamie up in washington's thirddistrict. that is how far north you have to go, john harwood, to find a republican, that represents the pacific ocean. >> look, republicans will have to figure this out. and i think the thing that eaks the logjam in our politics right now is when the republican party, in a concerted way, begins to appeal to votes tside the existing base of whites. that hwen't happened. hought it would happen after 2012. that is going to be the next phase of the republic party. has to. >> california republicans lost their lone latino assembly member in the sweep of california. great job, guys. thanks very much. that's all we have for today. thanks for watching. have a happy and safe thanksgiving. it is our best holiday to bring people togethe use it to do that, everybody. see you next week. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

thousandser of voluntes are pouring into california to help the displaced residents left homeless by the raging wildfires. can they rebuild as we head into thanksodving? may bring us one step closer to the actual details of the murder of saudi journalist jamal khashoggi along with recordings of the incident that president trump refuses to listen to. calling them very violent and very vicious. then to the home front and the busiest thanksgiving travel week in a decade. with over 54 million americans hitting the road going 50 miles or more home. me good news to bank on. to the budding new theme for couples tying the knot. right after the i dos and a