this sunday, sex, lies appeand the russia investigation. deral prosecutors say michael cohen paid off women to remain silent about their affairs th, in coordination and at the direction of individual 1, donald trump. the president denies it. >> sir, did you drect michael cohen to commit any violations of law? >> no, no. >> prosecutors also say mr. trump's russia connections began sooner than we knew with a russian offering hispa cn political synergy and synergy on a government lel. >> the last thing i want is helr fromsia on a campaign. >> and he insists things are going his way in robert mueller's investn. >> we're very happy with what we arereading because there was no

collusion whatsoever. >> how much political and legal peritr is presidenp actually facing? will republicans stick by him? and will democrats feel obligated to take up impeachment? joining me this morning, independent senator angus kinge of main who caucuses with the democrats and republican senator rand paul of kentucky. plu power grab. republican legislatures in michigan and wisconsin try to roll back the impact of no mber's election results by stripping power from newly elected democrats. >> w will not just lie down and accept this. >> my guest this morning, the incoming democrac governor of wisconsin, tony evers. joining me for insight andal anis are peggy noonan, eddie glaude, jr., of princeton university, kimberly atkins, and jonah goldberg, senior edir at "national review." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press."nn >>ncer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running

show in television history, this is "meet the press." . good sunday morning. shortly afr the filings by special counsel robert mueller and special prosecutors in new york were released friday evening, president tweeted in the third person. totally clears the president. thank you. well, not evreally. no close. in fact this is how the usually supportive "new york post" put it. donald and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. well, the court filings technically are about michael cohen and paul manafort, the most consequential player in this drama is really the person identified as individual 1, donald trump. federal prosecutor say individual 1 directed cohen to make illegal payments to women with whom the presiden had affairs. that would be a felony. and they describe how cohen corrected the timeline of contacts with russia about the moscow tower project, admitting they start earlier and lasted longer than previously known.

taken together, the suggest that contrary to mr. trump's repeated claims of innocence, he face potentially serious legal and political jeopardy. and they raise the specter that mr. trump could eventually be considered an unindicted co-conspirator. an aominous phrase linked to richard nixon. >> did you direct michael cohen -- >> no, no. >> growing peril for the president in two areas. number one, illegal campaign contributions. federal prosecutors in new york say that president tru directed michael cohen to commit two felonies, illegal hush money paymenct to porn aress stormy daniels and former playboy bunny ren mcdougal to keep alleged affairs quiet. prosecutors say, quote, with respect to both paymen , he acted in coordination with and at the direction of individual 1. mr. ump initially denied

knowing about the payments. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> once he admitted knowi about them, he denied directing them. >> he made the deal.he ade the deals. and by the way, he pled to two counts that aren't a crime. >> then there are the alleged contacts wruh ssia, which may hold even grter peril for t president. mr. trump has repeatedly denied o y contacts. >> i have nothing with russia. to the best of my knowledge, no person thatdeal with does. >> but in a separate filing, mueller's team says in september 2015, cohen conferred with individual 1, mr. trump, about contacting the russian government beforng reachi out to gauge russia's interest in a meeting between trump a vladimir putin. mr. trump actually talked about a potential meeting that september in a phone interview on"mt the press." >> your outside counsel intimated that you may have a meetinwith the russian president. do you plan on trying to do that. >> well, i had heard th he wanted t meet with me, and

certainly i am open to it. i would love to do that ifs he wantto do that. >> in the end, prosecutors say the meeting did not take place. but as discus tons aboutmp tower moscow were gaining momentum, in november 2015, prosecutors say cohen spoke with a russian national who claimed to be a trusted person in the russian federation who promised the campaignic polital synergy, and synergy on a government level. the individual again pushed for a meeting betweenr mr. tump and russian president it did not occur, prosecutors say, because mr. trump was pursuing a similar deal with business associate felix sader. also from mueller's team, cohen admitted circulating false congressional testimony to white house staff and mr. trump's legal counsel before submitting it. and mueller' team al says mr. trump's former campaign chairman, paul manafort, lied about five separate issues, even after pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate.

mr. trump has spent the last week attacking the special counsel investigation. asked why the president is so upset, trumpro allyr stone tells "the new york times" he has finally figured out that this is about him. and joining me now is senator angus king of main independent who caucuses with the democrats. lligencet of the in committee there. senator king, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> great to be with you, chuck. >> well, obviously a pretty eventful week. at the end of it you have th justice department, if you will, in the southern district of new york, pretty exicitly dmplicating the president in a crime. michael cohen then adding to it saying that his testimony, false testimony to congress, was somewning that was k in advance by some folks in and around t president. what are your takeaways from this week's developments, and what should congress now do? >> well, i think you outlined in

your tape there many of the questions that are raised by those filings, and they're really a separate series of filings, but t cohennes are pretty disturbing. the key phrase to me is directed by individual 1, which everyone knows is president trump. directed by implicates the president in a felony. now, the president can have some defenses left. i think should make itclear, he could claim it wasn't knowingly or lll, he didn't understand. it was his own money, he didn't think it was a violation of mpaign finance laws, but it's still a pretty serious matter. but i've got to sa chuck, i think the filing last week that should be most troubling to the white house weren't ones made on friday, but the ones made with regard to general flynn earlier in the week because, number one, robert mueller feltthat h cooperation has been of such an extent that heecommended no jail time, a kind of prosecutorial pardon, if you

will. 19 meetings with the special counsel, and a lot of redacted pieces in th filinghat was made last week. that's the one i think that very raises some difficult questions that go to the heart of the question of whether there wereps relations between the trump campaign, president trump anan the rus government during the campaign in 2016, because flynn was, as they say in "hamilton" in the room wheret happens. >> do you know something we don't, given your access to intelligence, your access to michael flynn and obviously the own investigation that you're a part of in the senate inlligence committee? >> i suspect i do know things that you don't, but i'm nothi- ever i'm saying, and i'm glad you asked that question, is based on publicg, report not on any inside information that i have. for example, iwh don't kno was redacted from those flynn documents. so, yes, we've had, as you know, our committee is working quietly

and diligently on many of these same issues, but everything that i'm sharing with you is based on public information and the filings that we'v seen from these individuals. >> given that thes overnment is now saying the weight of the government is behind the charges that the president helped direct michael cohen to commit that crime, and as you said there are still a defense there for the president, he can claim he didn't know it was aim or at least a breaking of a campaign finance crime.ie do you b there's already enough to start an impeachment inquiry? that doesn't mean he would be impeached. in fact is congress almost obligated to open an inquiry at this point? >> i don't think so. i think impeachment is entirely different from criminal prosecution. and as you know, the justice department made a decision years ago in an opinion that a sitting president could not and should not be indicted. and so whether the will ever face criminal charges

with regard to this matter is an openon ques but impeachment essentially, nkuck, is a political issue and i don't t that the -- well, let me put it this way. i don't think that there's evidence yet available to the public where there would be more or less a consensusat this was an appropriate path. my concern is that if impeachment is moved forward on the evidence that we have now, at least a third of the country would think it was just political revenge and a coup against the president. that wouldn't serveus well at all. the best way to solve a problem like this to me is elections. >> let me ask you this, the wholhe point of impeachment process was if because of this idea that you can't necessarily hold a president to the same rule ofu aw that n hold other individuals and that the one means to dealing with a president who commits crimes is through the impeachment process

you don't go through it, isn't this congress' way of saying, wey, , he committed some crimes, but politically it's uncomfortable so, you know, if you're popular enough or ifu ve a big enough base, you can get away with committing crimes? >> well, interestingly, i have to point out penthetically that what you just articulated kavanaugh'brett position on this issue when he was going through his confirmation hearing, that aid prt shouldn't be indicted or even investigated. impeachment is the remedy. there's a certain irony there, i think. but, you know, i the standard the constitution is high crimes and misdemeanors. it's ave high standard. and andrew johnson impeachment -- >> the word misdemeanor when ople say it's a high crime. high crimes and misdemeanors. that encompasses -- you could argue that encompasses the

entire -- >> i don't read iat t way. and here's why. if you go back to andrew mehnson's impea, the very first one back in 1867, the danger, ischuck, that we don't want to create a precedent wthre congress unseats -- a congress of one party unseats the president of another party for essentially political reasons. if that starts to happen, if that happs, then we'v changed our system. we've become a kind of parliamentary system because you're overturning the will of the voters. so i'm a conservative when it comes to impeachment. i think it's a last resort and only when the eardence is c of a really substantial legal violation. ouple of ask you a other things. >> we may get there, but we're not there now. > the president's nominee for attorney general, william barr, who's served in that post before in the bush 41 administration, there's a report from yahoo! news that the president initially reached out tomr. barr as a potential defense

attorney in the mueller probe of is that enough in your mind to demand recusal of oversight of the mueller pro if he is attorney general? >> i want to hear moreabout, number one, that allegation. what were the details. but also from mr. barr himself.n i his hearings will be very imptant. i'd be surprised if the senate confirms an individual who doesn't commit to protecting the integrity of spe counsel mueller. i think that's going to be a kind of litmus test for any nominee for attorney general, and we'll see how mr. barr handles the questions. >> are you right now, are you in a wait-and-see mod or could you see yourself supporting mr. barr? >> i'm in a wait-and-see mode. i want to see the hearings. i think it's very important to determine how he -- how he answers the question about the integrity, as i say, of the

mueller investigation. and again, chuck,id the prt himself should want the mueller investigation to go to completion. t it way to clear his name. if it's terminated prematurely through his attorney general or his actions, it will leave a cloud over him for the rest of his time in office, and i think could be veryim damaging to politically. if he's as innocent as he says he is, he ought to want this thing to go to completion. >> okay, senator king, the independent who the democrats from main. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. appreciate it. m joining from across the aisle is senator rand paul of kentucky. senator paul, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> good morning, chuck. thanks for having me. >> let sert where i left off with senator king. based on these federal documents that youve seen fr michael cohen at this point, if he wasn't president, do you think individual 1 would have also been indicted along with michael >> you know, i think that's

interesting about this is people forget history.ra the fe elections commission actually ruled on this with john edwards. they act ally came up with ruling and said that, you know what, the paying of his mtress was not a campaign finance violation. but i think it's bigge than this. and i think we have to decide in our society if -- there are thousands and thousands of rules, it's incredibly complicated campaign fince. we have to decide whether or not criminal penalties are the way we should approach criminal finance. i personally think if someone makes an errorn filing paperwork or not categorizing a campaign contributionco ectly, it shouldn't be jail time, it ought to be a fine. it's just like a lot ofin other we've done in washington, we've overcriminalized campaign finance. >> let me ask you about the allegation that michael had circulated his false testimony to congress in advance so people in a around the president, perhaps his lawyers, perhaps him, knew in ad mnce thathael cohen was going to lie to escon

>> about what issue? >> about the issue of the trump tower moscow project. >> i don't -- i guess i don't -- >> how does that sit with you? >> i guess i don't quite understand it because i don't know what's illegal about trying to build a hotel in russia. so this is pretty common, and i see no problem with someonepr running foident trying to build a hotel somewhere. now, if you are asking and saying will give you something in exchange for letting us build a hotel, that would bewrong but i haven't heard any evidence of that. just trying to build a hotel er some i can't imagine how that would be criminal. >> but -- >> or why you'd lie about it if it's not criminal. >> that's what i'm curious about. why do you think the story keeps channg in and aroun the president if all these things are as innocent as you've said. >> hyright. >> does he keep changing his story? >> i think it goes back to this whole idea of prosecutorial abuse. cohen is facing -- they're saying he's getting this long

sentence of four years. oh, my goodness, he's getting a really,t really sh sentence. they're threatening him20 wit years or life in prison for tax evasion and shortening to four years.g they keep gette story to change but maybe that's because the prosecutors pressure him say if you don't give him something on trump, you get 20 years. if you give us omething on trump, you get four years. so this is prosecutorial abuse, i think, that's why his story keeps shifting. it makes no sense. the president was talking to the media openly about the de in russia in 2015. why would it make a difference whether he still was talking to people in 2016 versus 2015. so really i think we're trying to make and find a crime. th has been my overall complaint about having these special prosecuts is that really they find a person and iey look for a crime. traditional justi our country is someone steals something from the grocery store and you have a crime,ry youo find out who did it. with the special prosecutor you decide we're going after

someone, the president, and we're going to squeeze as many people as we can until we can try to get aperson. and that's why i'm against these special prosecutors. i think they're a huge mistakehe and i thinkre a huge abuse of government power. appointedson he was was to investigate russian interference, it wasn't to investigate the president. >> well, but then why is he investigating tax evasion and whether or not you filed as a federal lobbyist? all the stuff that's be done to either manafort or flynn or any of the others remlly to be about other subjects and really what they did to flynn, i think, was unconscionable and i'm hoping that means mueller has a consc'sus. maybe i not that flynn gave so much information. maybe mueller has a conscience and knows how unfair it is what they did to flynn. he was never discussing anything illegal but it gets tied up in talking to the fbihether he was explicit, even though the original fbi agent said they did not think he was being

duplicitous, they did not think he was lying. so it's very troubling what these special prosecutors can do. i tell pple this. if a special prosecutor went after your life for the last 40 years, not you in particular but anody, i thinkhey could dredge up accusations. so i'm absolutely against it and i think it's miscarriage of justice and we should not have special prosecutors going after one person. and if we get this way and if we're going to prosecute people and put em i jail for campaign finance violations, we've become a banana republic where every president gets prosecuted and everybody gets thrown in jail when they're done with office >> let me ask you this. you're a strict constitutionalist. i think you would probsly take that compliment when it comes to your -- >> absolutely. >> -- purified reading. ites that mean this belongs in congress' hands an up to congress to investigate these crimes and not a special prosecutor? and the other thing is crimes can be investigated as well. if there aree crimes that being committed. but without a special prosecutor, what happens is you investigate crimes.

you don't go to this whole idea of sort of conspiracy. here's the danger of conspiracy and we're discussing this now with reforming our drug laws. what they do is, you ow, an unfortunate young woman is transferring money fr her boyfriend, who's a drug dealer, gets caught up. they add conspiracy to it and t add 10 or 15 or 20 year and now this woman is in life for exchanging some money with a drug dealer. so we have to be waryf whate do with conspiracy because it adds a lot of years to sentences and we compound these sentences. we have nonviont people in prison. there was a guy that sold marijuana an fgot caught his third time and got 55 years in prison. that's not right. >> i want to go to saudi arabia. you've been one of the advocates off getting america oute war in yemen. i want to play for you the president's friendliness to saudi arabia. i'm curious if this bothers you. take a listen. >> i like the saudis, they're very nice. they buy my apartments, you

wouldn'telieve it. them.e a lot of money with they buy all sorts of my stuff. all kinds f of tom trump. they'll pay me anything. they have nothing but money. >> are you at alloncernedhat the president's positions in saudi arabia have -- are impacted by his o financial dealings with them? >> i thinkhat when we're dealing with arms, that no personal financial dealings should have anything with the decision. really not even the finances of the country. i think selling arms should have to deal solely with our nationa securit jobs, not money, nothing. and i really think that the war inen y that we have no vital national security interest, and not only that, i think our involvement in this terrib war is one of the things that legenders more terrorism. as more pe die from starvation, as people pick up bomb fragments and on the bomb fragment it says made in america, it creates more

terrorism. i think it's a risk to be involved with the saudis and we should not be aiding and abetting their bombing of civilian areas. yemen is one of the poorest countries on the planet. 80%es of the food chrough a port. pompeo told them three weeks ago quit bombingts civilian po what have had saudis done? they have dropped 300 more bombs on civilian areas since then. the saudis are not good actors and willt respond unless we quit selling them arms. i would also expel the saudi ambassador. the saudi ambassador should go home. that would send a strong message that we're idispleased what they're doing. >> and finally on the president's nomination of william barr. it's been noted that he has anp ive view of executive power. when i heard that, i thought, uh-oh, he may have trouble getting rand paul's vote for confirmacton. am i cor >> uh-oh is right. i'm concerned that he's been a big supporter of the patriot act which lowered the standard for spying on americans and even went sosar t that the

patriot act is pretty good butd we sho further. i'm disturbed that he's a fan of taking people's property without a maconviction. poor people in our country have cash taken from them and the government says prove to us where you got the cash and you can get it back, but the burden is on the individual. it's called civil asset forfeiture and he's a big fan of deat. i haven't m a decision yet on him. but the first things i've learned aboutm being for more surveillance of americans is very, very troubling. >> senator rd paul,thanks for coming on and sharing your views. much appreciate it. >> thank you. when we come back, how much legal and political peril is president trump facing, d will the ♪ ignition sequence starts. 10... 9... guidance is internal. 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

♪ but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors sie happy to earn comms whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better.

maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. welcome back, the panel is here. eddie glaude, peggy noonan,

peggy atkins and jonah goldberg. weent into the way back machine for the campaign. he's a great paul manafort quote during the convention that now you just have to see two years later. >> so dob clear,r. trump -- so to be clear mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian oligarchs. >> that's what he said. that's what i -- that's obisously what our position >> we're a long way from there, kimberly. >> really. yes, we really ars therways a tweet, there's always a quote when it comes to paul man obviously what we saw this week, usually when files come out and they paint a picture of what's gointhon, call them speaking indictments.li this i a shouting indictment of the broad categorl robert mueer is looking into, including these ever-deniedth connections ssssians,

busieals with riussians that president trump denied having. if people have been lying t congress, lying to investigators about that, that is a big problem for the president. >> let me put up sort of the quick bullet points of michl flynn -- of the michael flynn sentencing memo from earlier this week plus michael cohen's. in michael flynn, we learned at there are three vex investigations he's been cooperating on. the mueller probe, the criminal probe thought to be the kidnappingf the turkish cleric and a third undisclosed investigation from the michael cohen cooperation agreement we learned of more contacts with russian interests during the campaign, more discreet russian-related matters, more contacts with the white house with 2017 and 2018. i think perhaps the most damning thing in there, jonahrg gold the idea that his prepared testimony to congress when he knew was false, had been circulated among those in and around the president. >> yeah, you did get the sense

that, like, if you flash the cameras to the white house counsel's office this week, you see lloyd bridges and airplane to say i picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. it seemed like t wheels not only came off the bus but flew off the bus. i've got to say, though, just trying to take a step back from the craziness of the week, you know, i don'tike the way we are talking about impeachment right now. it is -- impeachment has become -- or all of this stuff. we areasically outsourcing our moral, our political judgment to legalisms. as a conservative who i think has initsted quite a of time and energy criticizing the clintons and bill clinton for his behavior, is week just basically absolutely confirmed that the president of the united states paid off aorn star and playboy model to hide an affair during a run for the presidential campaign. and the response from many people on my side of the aisle is, well, maybe it's technically

not legal -- >> as you t heardere from rand paul. >> or campaign finance laws shouldn't be treated as criminal things, they should be treated as fines. but the problem for conservativism for republicans is when you make that point, it's true. but you're outsourcing all your moral judgment, al other things to those considerations. and frankly, you know, barack obama was guilty of campaign finance s.offen that doesn't mean he should have been impeached. we're just taking the conversation out of where it belongs. >> campaign finance questions in this instance are tiedo h election. so part of the issue is the legitimacy of the democratic process. and so caught between the kind of hesitancy of senator angus king and the defense of senator rand paul, one wonders, one worries whether or not folks will take up their responsibility to address this issu at its core it seems to me. >> it seems to me the news of friday, the filings ofriday,

to me the big headline is not the payoffs to women with whom individual 1 was alleged to have had relationships, it's much more that trump world we see again, it is demonstrated before us trump world does not do well with sunlight. it's like there's a series of rocks -- >> they'd be greates vamp is what you're saying. >> no. i'm saying there's a bunch of rocks or slates in trump wyold. pick one up and you're always seeing bugs and spiders and rms. you know what i mean? there's alwa something, the serious part is russia. it looked to me on friday that that all needs to be d develope 's going to go somewhere or not. but that's theserious stuff. >> let's go to this issue of impeachment. rit was interesting to h angus king's hesitance.

rand paul believes there should be no mueller but if you have to do it, you should dot in congress. how do democrats do this? what is the consequences of saying angus king is right, let the voters decide in 2020. what are the consequences of that? >> that's why this lever is there. there are very few checks on a pident of th president. ev the impeachment process, it's incredibly difficult to take a president ou'sof office. thhy it's never happened. >> probably should be. >> exactly. it's done by design. we're hearing a lot abt, ell, there's no way that he's going to be convicted in the senate, so why try. that's like saying, oh, we live in a district where people aren't upset by these crimes. we're not going to charge them because he's probably not going be convicted. no. you charge the crime and let the process go through. if house members find impeachable offenses, it is not just the right thi to do, it's

their duty to bring that and let the senate vote a the senat votes. >> i don't see how the house democrats resist it. >> as a plipolitical matter, it just too tempting and the base wants it. >> the base may punish them if they don't. >> consider jerrold nadler who was on the judicia committee in 1998 who said, yeah, clinton may have lied under oath and per injured hielf bu these were lies about covering up sex. those while technically impeachable do not rise to the gravity ofthe level of impeachment. there are going to be all soran of double rds that apply. the best thing for the democrats is for mueller to find something of real ighthat would justify going to impeachment. >> you have conspiracy, you have obstruction, you haveampaign finance and emolumentes. and we're seeing it's not going to be a shoe that's going to drop, it's going to be an

anville. cr if des do not pursue this, they will be held accountable for abdicating their responsibility. i understand the politics. moit goes to thel question, the ethical question. democracy is at stake. if seems to me if democrats don't take their responsibili seriously, they will be heldre onsible for what happens. >> but the responsibility is to do investigations or to move quickly to impeach -- >> investigations. >> welo mueller isg the investigation, right? >> we do know he's directeal crimbehavior. that's clear. so the machine ryo needs start to move. we're going to pause. when we come back, we're going to turnother story. it's the attempt by state republicans to strip power from y elected democrats in the midwest. it's ♪ traders -- they're always looking for advantages. the smart ones look to fidelity to find them. we give you research and data-visualization tools

to help identify potential opportunities. so, you can do it this way... or get everything you need to help capture investment ideas and make smarter trading decisions with fidelity for just $4.95 per online u.s. equity trade. fidelity. open an account today. ♪ open an account today. ♪ whose idea was this?! not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear. these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians who do all of that. the diner staffed up 'cause they all needed lunch. teachers... doctors... jobs grew a bunch. what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy

creates many more in this town. energy lives here. two... one... two... three... three... four... four... five... five... six... six...

welcome back. we're going to turn to a couple of end runs around the november election results. in wisconsin a republican legislature has approved a set of bills that essentially would strip some power from the newly elected governor and general.y why, you might ask? the newly elected governor, tony evers, and the newly elected attorney general are newly elected democrats. scott walker has indicated that he does plan to sign the bills that would among other things give the republican legislature control over major appointments and reduce early voting tends to benefit the democrats in t wisconsin, down weeks.e publican legislature is also doing the same thing. this has happened before inny a legislature. democrats have done this in the past to republican governors in lame duck sessions in other states.

joining me from the state capitol of madison is wisconsin's incoming governor, tony evers. governor-elect evers, welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning,ch ck. >> let me start with this. you said you were going to personally lobby scott walker, the governor who you defeated, to veto this legislation. how have those talks gone? have you met with him? >> i communicated wi governor lker over the telephone a few days a, and laid out my position thatetoing the legislation was going to be an important thing not only for -- to makere s that our -- what happened last november, the vote of the people of wisconsin, iac ally upheld and we're putting people in front of alitics, buto it's just bad legislation. i made that pitch, and hwas noncommittal. i know publicly he's said in other aren that helans to sign most or all of it. so i'm not particularly

encouraged at this point in time. but it's around scott walker's . lega he has the opportunity to us and validate the will of the people that votedmb on no 6. >> did you negotiate with him? did you say, look, i know x is really important to you, i get that. but what's with y and z here? did you go to him and say, look, i really think this part is just crazy. please voe teto that. if you want keep this, get it. >> no. i talked about a few areas that are really importanthat actually republican business leaders have talked about, that would take away power and implicate -- and make economic development much more difficult in the sta of wisconsin, but the entire thing is a mess. it's a hot mess. and i believe that he should veto the entire package. in fact at least three or four of the pieces that are in there now, he s vetoed previously.

and so it makes no senseo me you know, he's been a long-time public servant and heas a legacy here, so we're hopeful that he will veto the whole thing. curious, after you were elected and quickly we heard word that the republican speaker uband the rcan majority leader in the legislature there were considering these bills, did you reach out to them personally before the bill started going? and ifhayou did,was that conversation like? ke well, i met with robin voss, the sp much before those words -- that rumor came down the pike. no, i haven't had a chance to talk -- i mean it was last minute. it was one of these here's a rumor and then here's the bills that hav worked on for several months. but, you sknow, chuck, tt walker had won this election, we wouldn't be sitting here talking to you today. you there any part -- know, one of the things that the speaker said, he goes, well, in

hindsight maybe we gavehe governor too much power. take the partisan hat off a minute. all right. i know that perhaps many people read tt comment tongue in cheek. but do you believe he's right? >> well, there are thingsth in that bil really had nothing to do with giving scott walker anything. so, no, i don't agree with that. you know, we have balanced power in the state of wisconsin. are lature and both sides republican, i'm a democrat, the attorney general is a democrat. completely as different than what robin voss believes, and that is that we are trying tonvidate the will of the people. the people of wisconsin voted for me because they knew that i was for od schools and good transportation system and good health care. they didn't -- they didn't elect me to fight over administrative powers in thete sf wisconsin vis-a-vis the republican majority. no, i think th gets us off to

a bad start. i think it's a mistake but we'll continue working to get the people of wiscons to convince scott walker to think about his legacy and make sure that he vetoes this language. >> democratic esconan glenn moore said the legislators who n neered this coup, their actions amount to a smash and grab hijacking of the voters' will. >> a coup seems strong, but the fact of the matte as i just said, if scott walker won this election and he did not, i did, we wouldn't be sitting here talking about thistoday. scott walker wouldn't be sitting here talking about, geez, they're trying to balance the power here. so no, i think it is directly related to a win by a democrat and that would be me.ee we to have this vetoed. >> one of their rationales h

been, well, governor-elect evers margins all came from two cities, madison and milwaukee. we have to represent the rest of the state. what do you say to that charge? and more importantly, you won a ection.rrow how do you reach -- >> of course. >> how do you reach acrosshis divided state at this point? >> it would have been a lot easier witho this legislation, i'll tell you that. i have reached -- in my present job as state superintendent, that's a statewide elected position. i've reached across the aisle on all numbers of issues. that's part of my dna. i'm aneducator. so i always try to find common ground andon i'llnue to do that going forward. cet i won the election. any way you s it, i won the election. and i actually narrowed some of the votes outstate and i won lots of thosees coun outstate in the past. i am the governor and i will be the governor of the state ofsi

wiscand represent all people. >> if he doesn't veto thisat legin, do you plan to sue? do you really think you have standing? >> all issues are on thetable. i'm not making any promises one way or the other, but we're looking at all options at the table. i need to stand up for the people of wisconsin. there's 2.6 million people that voted in this last election, and they expect me to do that. so we'reoing to pursue this. >> governor-elect tony evers, democrat from wisconsin, thanks for coming on, sharing your views. good luck when you actually take the oath. , >> thanchuck. when we come back, the one when we come back, the one issue on which democrats are ♪ junior achievement reaches young people all over the world to prepare them for the future of work. we go into classrooms and we teach entrepreneurial skills and leadership skills. when you actually create a business when you're in your teens, it raises your self-confidence. junior achievement is really unique

because they inspire youve people to think crea. the citi foundation's pathways to progress initiative helped us reach kids in over 50 countries. citi has also loaned us their executives and their employees to help us deler our programs. our youth are three times more likely to beco entrepreneurs and they're more likely to eate jobs for others. they are going to bring an entrepreneurial spirit to making our world a better place. ♪ but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drivewise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedback to help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth...

are you in good hands? and an ice plant.rs with 70-megawatts, 35 mules, but we brought power to the people- redefining what that meant from one era to the next. over 90 years later we continue to build as one of the nation's largest investors in infrastructure. we don't just help power the american dream. we're part of it. this is our era. this is america's energy era. nextera energy welcomback. data download time. president trump's tough talk on trade has been big news this week, which mahe us wonder exactly do americans stand on trade? guess what, a lot more complicated than you may think. at the most basic level americans claim th like trade.

a whopping 74% say trade is good for the united states. only 21% believe it's bad. and support for trade generally goes up when your party is in the white house. republican support for trade hovered in the 60s during the obama presidency, but when president trump in oice, now 81% of republicans say trade is good. that's only 10 poihs more democrats. majorities of both parties believe trade is od. but, we do start to see some we p partisan divides when get specific. as with president trump's leading issue right now, tariffs. remember, he's a tariff man. for generations, it was democrats who were for usingor tariffs and protectionism. republicans were opposed that. now 74% of republicans say the trump administration's increased tariffs are a good thing for the country, while 8 of democrats say they're a bad thing. so what's driving these trends? behind supportiffor the t

are groups that have made up president trump's base, white 5men, men over and those without a bachelor's degree. these were the same folks, by the y, for protectionism 30 years ago. they justere registered democrats then. their views haven't changed, they changedie pa they're also electoral implications here looking regionally. the tariff issue is most hotly contested in the midwest. not surprising, given that area has long been the manufacturing sector's home and was also crucial to president trump's upset viory in 2016. look, the pew numbers suggest it ists democho are now the free traders, a label long owned andhe cher by the chamber of commerce wing of the republican party. now it's republicans who are the, quote unquote, better dealers with foreign countries. what midetractort call old-style democratic protectionism, which was a cornerstone of mr. trump's campaign for predent. wh we come back, some potential democratic 2020re candidates a finding out what it's like to py in the big leagues.

the vetting has begun. >> announcer: coming up, end game and postgame, broughtyo to game and postgame, broughtyo to by boeing. game and postgame, broughtyo to by boeing. so, they say that ai is the building block of the future. super. but today you're building wind turbines. morning sir. chief, the blade isn't passing quality gate. that's why you work with watson. i detect frictional loss on the midspan. it can detect the tiniest defects from just a few images to help production stay on time and on budget. i optimized the fiberglass finish to reduce frictional loss and maximize airflow. i was also part of the maximizing. for ai that can do more with your data, choose watson. hello. the best ai for the job.

(burke) parking splat. and we covered it. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪

end game, brought to you by boeing. continuing our mission connect, aprotect, explore inspire. back in end game. on earth 2 this would be a very comfortable conve the end of the midterms you talk about 2020. it seems odd to talk about 2020 when we're in the midst of who knows what's going to happen in this upcoming congress. however, the race does seem to have started and already democrat on democrat crime has begun. beto o'rourke, elizabeth warren andha kamalis all starting to see what happens when you do become a presidential candidate. every little thing becomes a ad ne. kamala harris had an aide who had a sexual harassment ssue.

all of a sudden elizabeth warren is finding out that aides to her are starting to talk to the press, questioning some decisions on this dna thing. and there's beto, where a whole bunch of bernie sanders supporters are in uh-oh, let's start making the case hnos a real progressive. kimberly, i want to start with the elizabeth warren stuff. this is your beat, "boston herald is the a split inside warren world here? what are -- there something we're seeing here or you've seen for a while that we're only seng now? >> look, i think and sadly enough we're two years out of election.ential i think what elizabeth warren's biggest problem is people are already getting tired of her. the presidential buzz around her has been going on for so long, and the pushback that she gotat after errible dna rollout, i would think that the staffers are trying tor protect thei future jobs and trying to distance themselves. >> her chief of staff is m apparentting witheto

o'rourke. >> oh, myne go. >> i think she's unpopular in massachusetts. hate itn massachusetts when their leaders run -- that's why mitt romney couldn't get re-elected governor. that's why duval patrick's popularity -- ask michael dukaki dukakis. that happens to everyone. but elizabeth warren possibly didn't realize how high her political perils were and sort of floated things that really fell early. and in a field this big, people immediately start looking at the next best thing. >> obviously 's the beto phenomenon that seems to be upending all of this. what do you make of beto? >> i asked a bunch of democrats on election night, tellatme, is beto's magic? these were people in new york who had been volunteering to make phone calls for him. they had bee on the phone banks. they had been working hard for him. the best answergot was that he reminds me of bobby kennedy with atain youthfulness and seriousness. his magic so far is lost on me.

i think he was dinged a little bit -- he may not be trying to get your vote yet. >> that's possible. >> in fairness. >> rahm emanuel dinged him a little t?bit, ri either this week or last when he said, beto o'rourke, he lost, right? we don't needr. lo to me the headline on 2020 in the democrats is,oi are they to look just like the republicans in '16? theeplicans had 17 candidates for president, which s anndication their party was breaking up. how many candidates are the democrats gointo have this year, 20? >> i would also indicate there were so many candidates because thought hillary was beatable. this time i think a lot of people think mr. trump is beatable. >> i would expect rahm emanuel to ding beto o'rourke because in some ways what we're going t see this election season in 2020 is the fight within the dmocratic party for the soul of theocratic party. so we've talked about the republicans being overrun by trumpism. e is an ideological battle being waged, right? so the progressiveng of the

democratic party is trying to pull the party to the left. rahm emanuel is the poster child of the folks that they want to so i expect him to say what he said. but beto o'rourke is interesting me because of how he speaks. he's not running away from certain issues. he'sayot running from, quote unquote, identity questions. he's not running away from issues mike medicare for all. but questions about fossil fuel is real. you ha to ask certain kinds of questions. >> everybody is going to have a wart when this is all done. the question is how focused will webe on that person's wart. >> in 2016 you had a collective action pubblem on the rcan side where all you needed was a sticky plurali to get the nomination. donald trump i don't think got a majority oim republican y votes anywhere. >> until very late. >> so i don't know if it's kamala harris, beto o'rourke, i don't know who it is, but could

be appealing to the progressive hungry base of the democratic party and win the nomination for the exact same collective action problems or structure issues, and then be so far to the left d get the nomination that it makes it at least easier for donald trump to run against them. i'm not saying that donald trump a shoo-in to win or anything. >> that's the same logic that donald trump said would ke it much easier for hillary clinton to win the election. that's a good place to stophe conversation there. thank you very much. that's all we have for today. thanks for watching for those of you celebrating hannukah, we wish you a happyig eighth tonight. or as we might say the seventh miracle. and we'llbe back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: you can see more end game and postgame on the "meet the press" twitter account.

>> i'm a little nervous. i ain't going to lie. >> a winter storm smacks the southeast burying the carolinas and being noing out power to thousands. where is it going next? >> why the man to replace chief of staff john kelly is turning down the job. >> the trade truths in tunnel. china's stern warning ao the u.s.fter the shocking arrest of a top tech executive. an answer to the age-old holiday queswhon. happens to christmas trees that don't make the cut? "early today" starts right now. a massive wter storm h