this sunday, shutdown stalemate. president trump offers temporary protection for some undocumented immigrants but sticks to his principle demand. >> the plan includes $5.7 billion for a strategic deployment of physical barriersa or wall. >> the president says the senate will voton his plan this week, but house speaker nancy pelosi rejects the offer, calling it a nonstarter. plus, moving the goalposts on collusion with russia. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. >> how significant is rudy giuliani's new position on on possible collu my guests this morning are the president's lawyer, rudy giuliani, democratic senator mark warner of virginia, and republican congresswoman liz

cheney of wyoming. also,ur not acce. >> now to this new bombshell report -- >> explosive new report. >> bombshell new report about the president. >> the special counsel's office shoots down a story claiming present trump orderedichael cohen to lie to congress about the moscow/trump tower project. >> i think that the buzzfeed piece was a disgrace to our country. >> were journalists to willing to report a story they cannot confirm? joining me for insighted and analyst, joshua johnson, host of 1a on npr. peter baker, from the united states. and nbc news national political record. sslcome to sunday. it's "meet the p >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. believe it or not, it was two

years ago today that donald trump took the oath of office. solemn solemnly swearing to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the united states. ultimately, the president's fate will be decided by the oters near, or perhaps by congress if house democrats do move on eaiment. the government shutdown is now in its 30th day. the spread between m trump's approval and disapproval ratings has grown noticeably since the start of this shutdown. he went from ten points under water to 15, according to 538.com'solling average. perhaps with that in mind, president trump yesterday made a w offer, extend some temporary protection from deportation for some undocumented immigrants in exchange for that $5.7 billion that he wants for a permane border wall. house speaker nancy pelosi rejected the offer, even before the president spoke. but democrats are also getting a bit nervous, and they're offering a billion dollars more in border security. they just don't want any money for a wall. at the same time, special counsel robert r mueller'sssia

report remaining a potentially mortal threat to the trump presidency. still, the more immediate crisis facing this country and the president is the shutdown. the best we can say, there is at least the two sides aren't farther apart. president trump with a deal to end the government shutdown that top democrats are calling a nonstarter a hostage taking. >> $5.7 billion for strategic deployment of physical barriers, or a wall.th e years of legislative relief0,or 000 daca recipients. >> the temporary protections for so-called dres would not include a pathway to permanent legal status, and major dreamer groups and democratic leaders are panning it. with the shutdown dragging on and his poll numbers sagging, this week mr. trump told his acting chief of staff, nick, mulvan're getting crushed, according to "the new york times." >> i've never seen the situation

that america is in now, and a lot of it has to do witus t i don't trust a lot of our politicians anymore. >> and hanging over the nation and mr. trump's esidency, "the new york times" report that the 7 i opened an inquiry in 2 into whether or not mr. trump was working as a russian agent as presiden "the washington post" report that president trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal his conversations with russian president vladimir putin. the acknowledgment by the president's lawyer that someone on his campaign may have colluded with russia. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people he campaign. >> yes, you have. >> i have no idea. >> and then there's the upcoming teony of mr. trump's former long-time lawyer, michael cohen, to congress. >> now to this new bombshellrt re >> after a buzzfeed story claimed the special counsel hast evidence t mr. trump directed phen to lie to congress last summer aboutns for a trump

tower in moscow, special counsel robert mueller issued a rare statement on friday night refuting thestory. quote, buzzfeed's description of specific statements to the special counsel's offic and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding michael cohen's congressional testimony are not accurate. the statement appeared to put ak the bres on the growing number of democrats in congress who said that the allegations, if true, would be grounds for beginning impeachment proceedings immediately. >> ifhe president directed michael cohen to lie to en congress, that's a clear case of participating in perjury and obstruction of justice. >> it's a total phony story, and i appreciate the special counsel coming out with a statementlast night. >> and joining me now is president trump's personal attorney, rudy giuliani. mr. giuliani, welcome back toee the press," sir. >> good morning, chuck. how are you? >> i'm okay.

let's start with the big kerffle overhe last 48 hours with buzzfeed. there were a lot of questions about what happened between michaecohen and donald trump, the special counsel's office obviously phed back on the buzzfeed story. so let's clear it up. on t a record, onc for all, are you a hundred percent confident that the president never once asked michael to do anything but tell the truth to congress? >> 100% certain of that. and also, i should add the buzzfeed story was a story that the president had counseled him or told him to lie and that there were tapes andes and federal law enforcement sources, two of them, cited for it. atspent a great deal of the day onday with that because i knew from the very beginning it wasn't true. but i mean, to theircredit, the justice department and the special iccounsel's o said that the story was inaccurate. the inaccuracy is there's no evidence that the president told

him to lie. then to answer yourst qn, categorically i can tell you his counsel to michaelcohen throughout that entire period was tell the truth. we thought he was telling the truth. i still believe he may have beee ing truth when he testified before congress. in any event, his lawyers thought tt. our lawyers thought that. and the president thought that, at the time. >> canar you -- >> now i don't know what to believe about him. >> can you share what cod unication the president with michael cohen about trump tower moscow, and can you share e last time they talked about trump tower >>oscow? robably can't do that for two reasons. i wasn't his lawyer at the time. i just came into it in april, which now seemsike two years ago, but it's less thajn a year. >> fair enoug >> second, a lot of that would be privilege. however, before the inodstigation, during the pe they're looking at, they did have conversations about it. the conversations lasted throughout pa osf 2016. the president is not sure exactly when they ended.

i would sayichael cohen would have a much better recollection of it than the president. important to him. that was his sole mission. the president was running for president of the united states. so you e got toect it's not going to be a great deal of concentration on a project that never went anywhere. there was one letter of intent that was nonbinding. that's the whole thing. i don't know if you call it a proj yt even. said the president is not sure when talks ended. i'm guessing you had to answer this question in written form by mr. mueller. so it's your understanding itde when, in january, as michael coheny incorrectl testified to? >> well, it our understanding that they went on em t , thre tbue wheerdates, but the president can remember having conversations with him about it.ou >> tout 2016? >> yeah, probably up to -- could be up to as far as october,

november. any time during that period they could have talked about it. but the president's recollection of it is that the thing had petered out quite a bit. they sent aletter of intent in. they didn't even know where to send it. they knew so little about it. they finally got it straightened out. then they abandoned the project. that's about as much as he can remember of it because, remember, 2015, 2016, he's running against 16 people for president of the united states. and i know that.i s with him for like five months. all his concentration s 100% on running for president. >> is it fair this was more project for michael cohen? did it also involve donald trump jr., ivanka trump, and eric trp? um>> for mean, if michael is at all telling the truth, w held have to acknowledge he was the key guy on this project. so he'd be the one -- i mean, if things were normal and we weren't worried he's lying, he'd

be the guy you'd go to and say, tell us what happened. you ran this thing. >> why do you think he decided, then -- so you're saying he decided on his own to tell congress that talks with trump tower moscow stopped in january 2016 >> he did it in consultation with his lawyers. >> according to bob mueller, he did it in consultation with some of the president's lawyers aswe . >> now, that could be true o.a john dowd, jay sekulow, ty cobb were the lawyers then. it would be not uncommon since it was a joint defense agreement. i don't know if they participate in the prepation, but they'd certainly be told about it, just like he would be told about what other people are doing. that's what a joint defense agreement is all about. >> just to clarify, talks of trump tower moscow went as late as october orember of 2016, in some form. >> could be. the president'secollection is

i talked about it with him in 2015, 2016, can't tell you the exact sequence, can't tell you the exact dates. we talked about the we talked about the fact he was going to send in a nonbinding letter of intent. at some point, he came to me and nformed me that it didn't go anywhere. >> do you know why it didn't go anywhere? >> i don't, actually. i don't know why it didn't go anywhere, nor doesalhe president know exactly why. there are a lot of these things thatpp hed. you send in a letter of intent, and maybe one out of three, o out of four turns out to be a project. it's like a very early stage proposal. >> but this -- as f as the esident was concerned, an active project to at least october or november of 16, an active, potential deal. >> yeah, i would say an active proposal. it's like my business. i make proposals to do security work. probably got six of them out right now. if you were ask me what countries am i going business in, i'd tell you the two i'm

doing bu six, because i may never do business there. >> let me ask you about what you said on cnn earlier this week about tise of collusion. let me play first your statement to mr. cuomo and go from there. >> you just stmied my position. i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. >> yes, you have. >> i have not. i said the presiden of the united states. >> i'm going to play for you a collection of yourself and the president on this issue of collusion. take a listen and i'll get you to respond. >> there's no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. there was no collusion between us and russia. there was no col sion on my side. i can tell you that. everybody knew it. there's been no collusion betweeus and the russians. but there has been no collusion. they won'tind anycollusion. it doesn't exist. >> i know from having been on the campan there was no contact with russians, no discussion with russians. a right. you have said you are now

creating a specific -- that it's just the president there was no collusion for. it does seem like a change you said it is not. why shouldn't we view this as a change? >> i'll tell you, because each time i saida that then and each time the president said it -- i shouldn't say each time. most of the times i said it back then, i qualified it with, to my knowledge, which is of course all i would know. am if i'm saying there's no collusion on theign, of course i don't know everyone on the campaign. to my knowledge, there's no collusion on theai ca. i probably didn't qualify it every time i said it. inhe case of chrihe asked me to qualify it. he asked me a question before that about, well, how would you i made it clear that i wouldn't know everything that happened. i represent the president. i know his knowledge, directly talking to h. i'm strange position of having been intimately involved in a larger part of the i know what i know from that, no russian collusion. but how do i know if somebody -- i mean, like when papadopoulos came along, there was a big furor about how he might have

be colluding with the russians. turned out he wasn't. at the time that came up, i wouldn't have known if hes wi wr he wasn't. >> soue people watch you on this and say, you know, you've had tohort ofge the context of how you're describing that story, to your knowledge,a ou keep -- as you get more knowledge, you tell us the story. are you confident your client is being 100% truthful to you? >> yes, absolutely. i don't tell you more of the story. in the first month or two, i didn't know it. i had to learn it. probably since may i haven't learned any n facts except a few things have come along. if yousk me a general question, i'll give you a general answer. if you ask me a specific question, i'll give y a specific answer. then i have the problem of being a lawyer, where i have to qualify. like, i'll say, you know, the conversation between mueller and the president, where the president said go easy onlyn.

now, that conversation did not take place as far asidhe prt is concerned. he doesn't remember any such conversation. then i'll say, evento if it place, there's nothing illegal about it. that confuses people. when you say, even if it took place, it's not illel, people think you're admitting the conversation took place. it's aomplexity that happens because i guess of the difficulty of this subject. >> final question, mr. barr, who durion his confirma hearing to be attorney general, e explicitly stated that a sitting president could obstruct justice. th w's been in disputeth analysis from your legal team. you have heard m barr's claim that, yes, a sitting president can obstruct justice. do you dccept hisinition of that or do you still disagree? >> no, ino, agree but i don't phrase it quite that way, that he can obstruct justice. a president firing somebody who works for himif he does no

other corrupt act other than just fire him, itan obstruct justice because that's what article 2 of the constitution gives to him solely. not congress, not anybodls if, for example, a president said, leav office o i'm going to, you know, have your kids kidnapped or i'm going to break your legs -- i prosecute a lott of otion cases. i'll give you an example. when the president said, please go easy on flynn, i know of no obstruction case that begins with the word please. it goes something like this, i you don't go easy on flynn, i'll brk your kneecaps. an obstruction case has to involve some degree of corrupt act other than just making request or just exercising a legal function. barr is a unique lawyer. he's a superior lawyer. so i wouldn't -- if i were one of these lawyers arguing about this on television, i wouldn't go against bill barr. >> fair enough. rudy giuliani, i'm going to end it there.

i appreciate the time and appreciate you coming on. >> you got if. joining me now is the top democrat on the senate intelligence committee, senator mark warner of virginia. welcome back tome the press." >> morning. >> obviously as a virginia senator, the shutdown is first and foremost on your mind. i get it. it's part of the reason why we wanted you on this mornin but mr. jougiuliani seemed to m news this morning about the trump wer moscow deal. he's now saying it was an ative, potential proposal least through october or november. is that news to the senate intelligen committee? >> that's news to me. that is b news. why two years after the fact are we just leaing this fact now when there's been this much inquiry? i got to tell y, chuck, i would think most voters, mocrat, independent, republican, you name it, knowing that the republican nominee was actively trying to do business epublican that the

nominee at least at one point had offered if he built this building, vladimir putin, a free penthouse apartment. and if those negotiions were ongoing while up until the election, i think that's a relevant fact foroters to know. i think it's remarkable that we're two years after the fact and just scering it today. >> what does this mean to you? he throughout the campaign said ithave no dealh russia, i have no business withru ia. i think reasonable people would disagree that i have no business with russia and an active potential deal does sound like you want business with russia. maybe he's got to parse tse ence here. what does that say to you about his -- does that -- does that question whether he should be in office? >> well, it reinforces the fact that we have to finish our investigation, the senate investigation, which is still e only bipartisan one left. we need to have mueller finish. and what we've seen is -- and don't often feel bad for rudy

giuliani, this morning just rv seeing that inw, i almost feel bad for him. he keeps having to readjust his stories as morects come out. so we now know that mr.trump, or his operation, was still trying to do business with moscow up until his. election we now know that his campaign chairman, paul manafort, gave confidential information to a russianon agent. we 2340e whknow what that russi agent did with that. one of thest questions i'ml trying to getsw aed is that frankly embarrassing meeting between trump and putinth wheren world stage the president of the united states kowtowed to ile russian president. i s don't know. they don't have to tell me, but i still don't know whether anyone in the trump administration at the most senior levotls ever g a read out. thats rai whole host of questions that the american people needs an answer to and e congress needs an answer to. >> you said earlier this week you expect to have michael cohen back in front of your committee in february as well.

we know about his public testimony that he's agreed to give to the house oversight committee. have you gotten -- has he agreed to this yet? >> we're still in conversations. chairman burr and i have azbreed f -- agreed for some wanted to bring cohen back. he's also agreed to testify publicly. i know the house intel committee ckis bringing him b as well. we particularly want him back because it was his original lies to our committee that got him into trouble. those lies were saying there was no activities on the trump tower after january of 2017. >> do you have evidence that somehow the president instructed mr. cohen to lie? >> we want to get mr. cohen to come before our committee and give testiny. do you have any evidence -- >> i'm not going to go into any of the materls that we have. of the w it is one reasons where i think part of this information may reside, within the mueller investigation. again, one of the critical reasons why we need assurances that that investigation will be

able to be finished. >> it sounds like -- it sound like a lot of democrats think you guys need to start pushing your investigation faster because mr. mueller iss taking too long. that?are you at on >> i want to get this done as fast as we can. i have as much frustration as anyone, but we have to do it in a thorougway. there are a number of key individuals whwe've either not seen or need to come back. and we're in those conversations right now. >> was it news to you when "the new york times" reported that a coterintelligence vestigation was opened on the president? >> again, i'm not going to comment on that story from "the new york times." >> is thath,omething, tho that if one had been opened tham it would be inion that would be shared with a select group of people? >> i'm not going to comment on what goes on in the intelligence committee. >> all right. let me move to the shutdown. i know the democrats have rejectedhe deal. i know democrats are working on their own counterproposal here. whattare we to away? what's the public to take away from the fact the president went out and offeresomething, you may not like it, but he offered

something. democrats are going to offer a little something. it's not going to be anything for a barrier. ll that progress? >> let me first oftep back and say let's make sure we all know what's at stake here. we have 800,000 workers that are either working or furloughed, not getting paid. we have hundreds of thousands oa coors. we think about the smithsonian here, all the folks who clean thend toilets serve the food aren't

>> i would start with opening the government. >> but can you get them paid while you still have this fight? >> we try to have some discussions. at least getting them make some sense. let me make clear that what the president proposed yesterday, increasing bor r security, looking at tps, looking at the drea ars, i'll use that as starting point, but you've got to start by opening the wvernment. wh cannot do -- and i've hadel republicans as recognize this -- is that we cannot reward the kind of behavior of hostage taking. if the president can arbitrarily shut down the government now, he'll do it time and again. >> you doknow, though, that already the hit to gdp is greater than the amount of money he's askedfor. we've already had a $7 billion hit to our economy. at what point is it not worth it? >> listen, going into negotiations, i'm all for it.de increasing bsecurity, i'm all for it. >> some fencing? you've voted for it s before. rt with opening the government. the one thing i'd like to ask,

chuck, you and the folks here ad the , i don't think we give our federal employees enough benefit. five wks now without pay. they're still showing up to work. they're working overtime. how many folks in this studio would come to work this morning if they'd gone five weeks thout pay? >> it's a very fair question, and i think a you would have very empty studio. senator mark warner, democrat from virginia, thank you for coming on. when we come back, the shutdown, russia, and calls among democrats to start ♪ ignition sequence starts. 10... 9... guidance is internal. 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... ♪

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there, okay, i'm willing to accept the president as the starting point. he made an inchowds the democrats. democrats made an inch. it's not halll, but there's condensation. >> for 29 days, all we had was give me the money or don't give me the money. it was one thing on the table. neither side was budging. now we're putting otherhehings on table. we're expanding the problem so there, in fact, can be multiple aspects give each side something they can live with. you can see the makings of a deal here. at the moment, it doesn't seem like it's likely to happen in the next 24, 48 hours. they're still stuck on i'm not going to negotiate on that, i'm not going to negotiate on this. if the president wanted a deal, i'm ngt sure cout on television to make the first proposal is the way to do it. i'm not sure rejecting it befort it was made way to do it. you can see the beginnings of negotiations. we're now in a place where people are beginning to move. >> so here's what happened. sically, jared kushner and mike pence were up on the hill this week. they met with mitch mcconnell. they left, mitch mcconnell picked up the phone and called the president and mrsaid, president, nancy pelosi is not

going to buncdge. you've got to do something to shake this up. just put something on the table. this is wholly a proposal from the white house. that is the problem. even though we saw some movement in terms of the wal itself, the president conceding for the first time this is not a contiguous wall, also giving a little bit on daca, it is not anywhere close to what the democrats would want in terms of the money being directed towards the infrastructure needed at portds o port ports of entry, drones, more people at the border. there is stuff in there on increased border security that's not wall, but they're still far apart on the specifics. here's the most important thing. you heard mark warner say this. according to the democrats i've talked to, they really are going to stay united when it comes to the principle of this negoti the government is open and not closed. >> interesting.lo well, cse, no? you don't see progress?

>> don't look at me. and let's be clear. no one in this room knows when the shutdown is going to end. let's knock that right out. there's no cle path. i think part of the reason is because this is no longer purely pragmatic or practical politics. this is amoral issue. i think the shutdown is kind of a symptom of something larger. the wall is a campaignth promis president made to play on something very deeply held that his political base feels. if you want to look for an image that speaks to this, it's probably those stpros who were on the steps of the lincoln memorial, the native american man beating the drum, nathan phillips, and those kids and the make america great again hats that were kind of smirking at him and looking down their n at him. that's the real emblem of this. this is about xenophobia. for many americans, this is about race. this is about rhetoric tt's reached a point where it's ground the government to a halt. nancy pelosi said a wall is an immorality. how do you make a political

solution to a moral quandary? it seems like the entire political establishment has painted itself into a place where the practal nature of politics could solve this. for many american, for many people of color, for the alexandria ocasio-cortezs in this country, they're tired of theseon solu >> he brought up perhaps the box democrats have painted themselves in, the mority. then you have the "a" word when it comes to the right, which is am any little protection for anybody that's not hereegally is somehow amnesty. the president tweeted this, this mornin no, amnesty is not part of my offer. it is a three-year extension of daca. amnesty will be used only on a much biggdeal, whether on immigration or something else. likewise, there will b push to remove the 11 million plus people here illegally. but be careful, nancy. the am necessary si wornesty wo

splinter the right. >> there's a lot of history behind these immigration it's not just something that came up between donald trump and nancy pelosi. this goes back to 1986 and the original deal that was struck th the reagan administration, which most people don't even remember. that was the amnesty question. you know, i think what we've seen is that while donald trump had painted himself into a corner, the reality is we may not like it.ot we may agree with him, but me has moved. and it is a mistake on the part of the speaker to come out of the box and nott accep the idea that we like the idea of a three-year extension. sure, we want to do better. we could accept a 700-mile or so border, a fence. the democrats, every sitting democrat in the senate, voted fojust such a thing a mere five years ago. the problem that you have is when you sta suggesting that anyone who wants a wall or no, not anyone. i don't want to be unfair to you. many who wantr thise racist, it causes a real hardening on

the other side. there are plenty of people, including 35-plus democratic senators, who wanted a wall, signed up to a wall, and who i don't think are racists. >> bottom line, if you take the emotion out of this debat it's solved tomorrow. >> exactly right. i thinjosh's point is exactly right. what used to be a relativelyc pragma discussion about a little of this, a little of that, in 2006, many democrats voted for fencing.y to has become a moral issue on both sides in different ways. very hard to meet in the middle. who do are exper believe there are certain kind of barriers in certain parts of the border thake perfect sense. we interviewed a borderpe patro on our program who said especially in urban areas where there are places for smugglers to duck and dive, physical barriers can make a real difference in terms of securing the border. saying it' inherently immoral may be true in some people's

hearts, but there are pragmatic ways in which certain kinds of r barriers alongin parts of the border have helped. >> there's a deal to be had. it's not going to be had s cording to democrat when the government is closed. just this week you saw other conservative base groups say let's have a shutdown over plned parenthoo funding. this really is, for democrats, about the principle. >> if this continues to go on, which party is more vulnerable to seeing rire splin off here? i feel like you've got those trump house democrats. you've got those senate republicans in blue state seems like they're both wobbly here. >> i think right now nancy pelosi is at more risk because she's facing exactly what two republicand peakers fa to, which is her own version of the freedom caucus, her own version of the tea par who are going to turn on her like vipers. >> i think mitch mcconnell's move here with gets trump to make this proposal was also meanheto move this to senate. so i would look to those senate democrats, those moderate democrats, which is why i reached out to joe manchin last ght. he gave a very kind of nebulous

statement, but it s didy let's open the government, which brings me back to the same point i keep ndmaking. >>s you heard mark warner there, maybe we can pay them. you can tell the's some movement. all right. let's pause it there. coming up, as he enters his third year in office, president trump is counting on continued support from congressional on a number of issues. will he get it? a top house republican, liz cheney, joins me next. so, they say that ai is the building block of the future. super. but today you're building wind turbines. morning sir. chief, the blade isn't passing quality gate. that's why you work with watson. i detect frictional loss on the midspan. it can detect the tiniest defects from just a few images to help production stay on time and on budget. i optimized the fiberglass finish to reduce frictional loss and maximize airflow. i was also part of the maximizing. for ai that can do more with your data, choose watson. hello. the best ai for the job.

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welcome back. as the debate over immigration and the shutdown continues, neither want to give anything to e other side. one group that may have a lot of impact on mr. trump's fate on everything from the shutdown to mueller to 2020 a house republicans. and joining me this morning is the chair of the house c republicference, that's the number three position in leadership on the republican side, liz cheneyr wyoming. welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you very much, chuck. great to be with you. >> let me start with the shutdown. wyoming, as folks are going to see, is one of the most impacted states by this shutdown. i think one of the five most mpacted outside of the region here the president's proposal seemed to inch. democrats are talking about m money for border security but no

barrier. are we closer or is this rhetoric? >> it's certainly more than rhetoric on our side. i think what you saw the president do yesterday was one more time put a proposal on th table. it's very difficult to understand when you've got the pr obviously includes money for the border wall, also includes an extension for the daca folks, also includes an extension for tps. those are issues, daca in particular, that speaker pelosi comm commandeered the floor of the house on particularly this g issue, on help ensure that people who are here, the so-called dreamers, are not deported. so for her now to just simply asject out of hand when the president actuallyaid, okay, let's look at ways we can come closer, you know, it shows you they're just not interested in n>>otiating. hy should the democrats accept something temporary in exchange for something permanent? >> k well, l >> in fairness to them. >> what we're talking about is we have to securede the band get the government open. as your last panel talked about, the democrats in the sate,

including senator warner, have voted for 700 miles, actuall of a border barrier, back in 2013. so we really want to come to an agreement here.re the presidenly wants to come to an agreement leer. he's put offers on the tonle. the reble thing for the mocrats to do is put a counteroffer on the table if don't like this one. >> senator warner seemed to suggest maybe there's a way to pay people, pay some of these workers now, even if you don't open up the government. would you support some sort ofm ary solution like that this week just to keep things ring? >> the housepublicans voted to do just that, and the democrats voted against it. we had a handful of democrats who joined us on one of our motions to recommit that would hat.xactly >> pay people even if the gott stays closed? >> we think i's very important that people get paid. i think it's very hard to defend the notion that we're asking people to come to work and not be paid. but at the endy, of the d there is a solution here. the mocrats, you know, the rhetoric here has really gotten

ovefe andhe snd bsey uonpd. to give his spch, that tells you something about what their approach is here. >> did what the president offer, is that how you would define amnesty? some on the right are saying the president's offers are amnesty. >> no, it's not amnesty. what he said is, look, let's ex have an nsion for three years of these two programs, and e can come to so the table to talk about what's necessary for broader immigration reform. it isn't amnest frankly, it is a really important step forward, but again, i come back to theat fac speaker pelosi has said she will be a champion of the dreamers. so when she's willing to play games, when she's willing to pull political stunts, but she's not actually willing to come up with solutions, that makes it very difficult to come to an agreinent here. >>ng a permanent solution for the dreamers with a path to citizenship, any form of that, when does that become amnesty in your mind? >> well, look, swrooel we'll hae what happens. the government open. we have to focus on what comes

next. >> buts what i described not -- you don't think that's amnesty. >> what the president has put forward is not amnesty. what the presint has dones say, absolutely, our first and most important obligation is to secure the border. and the fact that the democrats are talking about let's have enborders, let's apolibolish i.c.e., they say they're for border security on seome level, to they're not willing provide $1 for for it. it's a purely partisan game. >> let me move to some foreign policy issues. here was the president yesterday talking out the potential withdrawal of troops in syria. take a listen. >> in two ars, we've, i guess, reduced it to about 99% of the territorial caliphate. we're killingor isis russia, for iran, for syr,, for ir for a lot of otheres pl

at some point you want to bring our people back home. >> i know you've been to the white house to talk about your concerns about too quick of aou pu there. does that make you feel better, or does that sound like aen presthat still wants to move a little faster on this pullout than you do? >> look, i think what's very important to recognize is that we have to ma sure that we finish the job. if you look at the -- >> so 99% your mind is not finishing the job? >> it's not. mistakes ok at the barack obama made when he pulled out of iraq precipitously, when he declared the war ended -- and the war certainly wasn't ended. we end up withhe chaos in aftermath. in a place like syria, what our special operations forces are doing there is crucially important. in order to be able to provide air support, some artillery support, we've goto ensure that isis is destroyed. because if you walk away before they're destroye then they ve the ability to create safe havens to launch attacks against us again. >>ome will say there's always an isis, there's always an al qaeda. they're just going to change their nameea so it we're always going to be there. what do you say to folks that

think -- thatr definition means we're always going to have troops in the middle east. >> we have to fight them there so they don't fight us here. the finition of victory in the middle east, the definition of victory in afghanistan, in syri is that we don't have another 9/11. so we've got to recognize that the kind ofemy we're facing can, with very little territory, very little resources, have bases from which they can plot and plan and launch we have an obligation to make sure they don't do that. >> before i let you go, congressman steve king has basically decided you're the reason why he's being maybe shoved out ofoffice, shoved out of the party. i got to play something he said about you earlier thiseek. take a listen. >> you can't put her in the category of ever being a conservative again. she's called for me reion. she's been here two years. and you know, what would give her the moral authority or the intellectual judgment to do something like that? g >> i'll jue you a chance to respond. >> i think i was pretty clear,

and our entire house leaders ip ry clear last week. his comments were abhorrent. they were racist. under the guidance of leader mccarthy, we stripped him of his committee assignments, and i think there's simply no place for that language in any of our -- >> censure next? >> as i said last week, i think i h he ought to find another line of work. >> liz cheney, thank you. when that 800,000 federal employees that 800,000 federal employees are out of work, but did you

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welcome back. data download time. we are o month into this shutdown, and americans across the country are feeling the impact beyond just the capital beltway. outside ofashington, d.c., maryland, and delaware, the states with the highest proportion of federal worpars ed by the shutdown are south dakota, mtontana, wyoming new mexico, anda. ala federal employees in these states primarily work for interior,ic atural, and health and human services. and it's folks like these across the country who've already gone

more paycheck, who could start to have a tough time making ends meet. in fact, according to the real estate site zillow, this month alone, unpaid federa workers owe $438 million in mortgage and rent and of the workers impacted, almost 111,000 make less than $50,000 per year, according to "the washington post." now, this shutdown has cast a spotlight on just how many americans are onissed paycheck away from a personal financial crisis. in fact, accordingo a survey by bank rate, less than half of americans, just 40%, could cover an unexpected $1,000 expense, like a car repair or emergency roomvisit, from savings. others said they would need to pay with a credit card, borrow from family or friends, or simply take out a personal loan. the broader impact on the economy is starting to become apparent as well. bloomberg estimates federal

contractors could be wllo$2ng a much a million a day in lost or delayed revenue. delta airlines says it's already lost $25 million in revenue due to lost government flight a month in, this shutdown is having a real impact both inside and outside the washiarton, d.c.,. and we don't yet know the ripple effect on everything from lunch spots and coffee shots to uber drivers. but we do know it's causing real pain for real people.ue and theion for policymakers may be, when is it simply t much? when we come back, we're going to talk about that buzzfeed story about michael cohen and whether journalists were too quick to report they could not confirm. coming up, end game and postgame, brought to y by boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore, and inspire. i'm a bunch of wind. and just like your stomach after that strip mall sushi, well, i'm a bit unpredictable. let's redecorate. whatsyamatter tanya, i thought you loved being spontaneous?

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boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore, and inspire. back now with end game and the buzzfeed bombshell that, well, wasn't, and the unbelievable decision by the special rosecutor'soffice to isually say, no, a story wrong. a lot of people now know the story. let me put the special counsel's statement up one more time from

peter carr. buzzfeed's description specific statements to the special counsel's office and characterization of documents d testimony obtained by this office recording michael cohen's congressional testimony are t accurate. saturday, buzzfeed is still sticking by their story. here's their statement. as we've reconfirmed our reporting, we've seen no indication thatany specific aspect of our story is inaccurate. we remain confident in what we've ported andll share more as we are able to. peter baker and heidi, you both deal a lot with the special counsel's office in various ways. just explain how unprecedented this was. pr>> absolutely uedented. there's been thousands of stories that have gone out on russia, and the special counsel's office has said nothing. the fact it felt compelled to answer to this was reallysi ificant. i think on the hill, there was also a pressure coming because you had some members, and i want say that they were not leadership and they were not the committee chairs, but you had

some democra starting to use the "i" word and starting to say, veeller, if yoot this evidence, you have to bring it forward ner. so therethose two confluences of events happening that i think compelled him to say something. we don't kno though i don't think we should get ahead of our skis on this story, because we don't know everything that was wrong in the story. it is notable that buzzfeed continues to stand by it. so i think there's more iterations of this to come. >> peter, though, i think the bigger thing is the entire media we could all say we did the if trues, and we saidwe could n confirm. that's all true. it was something the entire media world was telling the public, this is probably true. by the way, we covered this. now look. >> buzzfeed has got an lot of things right. let's not forget that. they have had amber of important scoops on this. i think theredwas some ility, it seemed like, on the front end to what they were sayinglebut our peeren't able to confirm it the way it

was reported. i think that gave us obviously a lot of pause, andou it . the problem is, in the old days, you know, when one media organization's compe got something wrong, you would sit back and say, ha-ha. now unfortunately, it's blowback on all of us. we all own all of the media in effect. anybody gets anything wrong, it's ud as a weapon against all of us and against all of the other thousands of stories heidi just mentioned. i think the fact the special counsel choseth to correc one says that they weren't troubled by the vast majority of those thousands of other stories and aot of the reporting has been, in fact, pretty right. al that's, by the way, the danger of the spe counsel's office deciding to speak out on one story. does it do that, confirm every other? >> can we just be clear on two things? one, the american public by and large not trust the folks inside the beltway or in the press. and two t american people want this to bever. we're tired. this is like t owest, longest, most drawn-out drama. and whatever story is going to

make this end, i think a lot of people are kind of eager for. feed story kind of has that patina. it's the smoke from the smoking gun. and if, indeed, it leads to the gun from whence the smoke ori n originated, boomthwe can start story and time to start "game of thrones" in april and we only havdre onea to deal with. first of all, it's a good thing the largerbl media eshment was able to talk about this. we all read our own different papers from our o political silos. there never would have been a correction. it would have ended u in the paper that spoke to your point of view. no one else would have seen it. we never would have gotten the facts right. this is where the era of the internet helps. overall, i feel like this is another part of this drama thato the americane and folks inside the beltway are saying, can w p this up, please snmpk. >> the problem is the fake news problem. y time that somebody gets something so spectacularly wrong and everybodn,piles it furthers the narrative that this is yet another american institution that the people of

our country can't trust. that's the problem with e buzzfeed story. >> no, it is. and we got to remind people though there are people that want to exploit this, they want to see us be put this w they're doing it for exploitation purposes. so let's not give them the ammunition. k you, all, for today. thank you for watching and trusting us. have a happy and safe martin luther king jr. holiday weekend. get your ice skates out here in washington. week, because next if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." you can see more end game and postgame on the "meet the press" twitter account. stronger is blasting her tumors...

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