this sunday the democrats . de joe biden responds to criticism he touched women inh ways though not sexual made some uncomfortable. >> i get it. i hear what they are saying. h understand. i'll be m more mindful. >> but declines to apologize saying he t never meantbe disrespectful. >> i'm not sorry for any of my intentions. i'm not sorry for anything ie.v ever do >> and jokes about it in a public appearance. >> i just want youto know i had permission to hug lonnie. >> as the list of candidates thers, democrats debate w biden is the right choice or whether it's time for a new generation of leaders. >> you cld argue it doesn't get more different from this president than a laid back intellectual gay mayor from the midwest.

>> this morning i'll talk to a candidate enjoying a surge in polling and media attentio south bend mayor pete buttigieg. >> the border. >> it's full.n' you come in. our country is full. >> democrats demand to see his taxes and the full mueller report. i'll talk to utah republican hi mitt romney in first appearance as a u.s. senator. also, unfriending social media. why americans are fed up with twitter and facebook but just can't y.ay aw joining me for insight and heather e hugh hewitt, mcghee, democratic activist and senior fell oh a think tank and editor of daily washington newslett jake sherman and anna palmer. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longestshunning ow in television history, this is "meet the press"ithhuck todd. good sunday morning. there is a truism in american

politics that has enormous implications for the 2020 presidential race. when we elect new psidents, they are in many ways the polar opposites of the outgoing president.er we followedgate soaked richard nixon with i'llnever lie to you jimmy carter. when the job seemed too big for carter we repleased him with breezily confident ronald reagan. later the buttoned down george h.w. bush before being beaten by saxophone by boomer bill clinton, led to george w. bush shoes shoot from the hip style led to obamasueeded by blow the place up, donald trump. which is positioned to be best polar opposite of president trump. there have been 14 a viewing to be that anti-trump candidate. mopping them, 37-year-old south

be mayor pete buttigieg having the kind of moment that may not have been seen from the democratic party since a peanut rmer came ou of nowhere in 1976. this week the democrat's center of gravity joe biden.no the issu so much whether he's going to run but in this new progressive democratic party, whether he should. >> i just want you to know, i had permission to hug lonnie. >> former vice president joe aden appearing before friendly union audience on friday joked twice about accusatis by women wh say he has made them uncomfortable with unwelcome though not sexual physical contact. >> by the way, h gave me permission to touch him. >> for some of his accusers,it was proof despite his video earlier this ek. >> i git, i get it. >> that biden doesn't get sit. >> it for me like a slap in the face. he say i get it, it's it. i believe in women.

i advocate from women. that's not what i saw from the speech. >> afterward biden did some damage control but he did not apologize. >> i'm sorry i didn't understand more. i'm not sorry for any of my intentions. i'm not sor for anything i have ever done. >> the controversy is given new oxygen to questions whether biden who came of age politically during the 20th century can lead an increasingly diverse democratic p in the 21st. >> do you believehe vice president should enter this race? >> he's gog to have to make that decision for himself. >> on friday biden took a shot at the new left. >> the definition of progressive now seems to be changing. is are you a socialist. that's a real progressive. do you believe in, you know, atever. >> biden like bernie sanders would enter the white house as the oldest president in american history. he also outpolls a trumpng self-described moderates and i understand and competitive amont rust bvoters and president

trump is paying attention. >> i said, general, give me a kiss. i felt like joe biden. >> for democrats eager for a nominee who is the antithesis of donald ump,orced to iz apol sanders answering whether people on his campaign were involved in assault. >> during the campaign youou didn't knot the allegations, correct? i was a little busy running around the country making the case. >> beto o'rourke is commenting about his wife and sometimes raising his own kids. pete buttigieg us apologizing r comment a reminder democrats are looking high and low for an alternative to president trump. >> it's unusual for it to even be plausible a 37-year-old

midwestern mayor is giving interviews about can for president. something is happening that calls for something completely >> joining me is the mayor of indiana who is technically still exploring aridential bid, pete buttigieg. mr. mayor, welcome back -- welcome to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me on. >> we say exploring. i know you have an announcement ghepared a week from today. >> that's in south bend. looking forward to it. >> is there any reason toi' believ not be running for president? >> no, the kind of thing we're going to announce is the thing you only get to announce once. i hope a lot of supporters will be there in south bend. >> what does something mpletely different mean? i say this in this respect. donald trump came in as the most inexperienced president in history when t came government service, public service and things like that. while you have more execut te experienn he did going into this, you also would be a

fairly inexperienced president. why should something completely different be another inexperienced politician. >> i would stack up my experience against anybody. i know it's not as traditional. i haven't been polmarinating in washington and part of that establishment but i would argue being a mayor of the city of any size means you have to de with the kinds of issues that really hit americans. it's everything fromre infrastruco economic development to racial sensitivities in policing. not toac mention the i would also have more military experience under my belt thanyb y to walk into office since george h.w. bush. i think it's about qualits well as quantity in experience. you can see clearly i'm about fferent from this president as it gets. >> had you been successful i your last campaign you would be chairman of the democratic party. that means you wouldn't be running for president. >> that's true. in a selfish way it worked out for the best. >> what was your motivation you

wanted dnc chairman now running for president. >> any time you're running for office the discernment process should look for this. you lo t at what office calls for in make moment and and you bring to the tab you use that for a match. i've used that process to decide to run for office several times and i've used it not to run for office. i see a country going through tectonic change and an office with a loss of decency. i'm as surprised as anybody. if you would ask me two years ago what ioiould be in 2019, i don't think i would have said this. but here you have this m probably the only moment in american history where it just might make sense for somebody my age, coming from experience in the industrial midwest, nonfederal, different background, bringing something that the actually help americans envision the world a05it will be in 4, the year i'll reach the current able of the current president and change the channel from this mesmerizing horror

show going on in washington right now. >> i want delve into indiana, your record in politics. you ran statewide in indiana against richard murdoch. he was t w person upset lugger, handed a senate seat to the democrats that has since gone republican. you lost. >> is hard for democrat to win statewide in the best of years. i warunning in the worst of years. i'm still proud of our campaign. i was largely doing it to stand for auto workers. richard murdoch intervened to prevent the autorescue. he took it to the supreme court using his standi as treasurer. it would have devastated our state. i think sobody needed to stand up to him. i got my head handed to me. >> what did you learn from this. you had a bunch of supporters that weren't ready to support you. what do you think your issue was, youth perhaps?

>> i can say i led the ticket. ushough just about all of were somewhere in the 40% range that year. just a horrible year to be a democrat in indiana o frankly in most places. what i really learned was ca maigning. it wfirst time on the ballot. it was uphill to say the least. not alot of people were even following treasurer's race. it's hard when peopl haven't heard of you or the office you're running for. i learned fundraising, retail and how toput a message together. that wound up serving me well when in south bend the seat openedup, the first open seat in 24 years at exactly the moment when our citywas looking for something different and needed a fresh start. >> i'm going to put up a couple of numbers here having to do with south bend. e poverty ra is still over 25%. the eviction rate 6.7%, which is fairly high. not the highest in indiana but on the high end of indiana. obviously you've been re-elected. so voters believe you put the city in theight direction in that sense. these are still tough numbers.

what haven't you been able to >> there's so much work to do in a city like ours. people know it's hometown of notre dame might summits a wealthy town. we were devastated by the auto industry when they left in the 1960s. when i took office there were articles about whethth bend was a dying city. our poverty rate is high but down. we cut employment byhalf. we've been able to change the trajectory of the city to where we're gr in population and investment in a pace we haven't seen in a generation. it's not like all o our problems are involved. but i think one of the reasons i wound up getting re-elected with 80% of the vote is a sense that we had really changed the story for our city. i think that's something the country needs to hear. because you've got a preisdent whelling anybody from a community like mine, be it industrial or ruralni com, any community where people grow up getting this message success mean have to get out. he's telling us greatness is in

the past. we have to stop the clock a rn it back. i'm now making the case south bend is living proof that good poll six is not oneased on the word "again." >> particularly racial disparities on income equalitye ge in south bend. this is a crisis around the country. ce this firsthand. how much -- you haven't had much luckng clohat gap. what have you tried that has work and what have you tried that didn't work. we have it mask in the right direction. we're talking about generational poverty, generational disposition dispossession that results in a combination of racist policies over the years and the affect that poverty and mass incarceratihave. we're a community about 25% african-american, about 45% nonwhite. a lot of people in their lives and their neighborhoods, it's almost as though the economic recovery we're experiencing right now never happened. here ishat we think is rking. we're investing in neighborhoods

historically divested, parks and spaces supporting entrepreneurship we opened a small business resource center in an area that was not getting the kind of attention needed because we know entrepreneurship will empower not just minority business owners but minority employees. we're taking steps to deal with the eviction rate, as you showed, a lot of times simply having access to lega representation makes all the difference for somebody facing eviction. and we made sure that our neighborhoods were improved e because the is blight in vacant and abandoned properties was affecting especially minority neighborhoods. people didn't think it would be done but ween coated resources. you said in 2015, sort of the rise of the black lives matter movement that there needs to be racial reconciliation. >> yes. >> where does that responsibility lie and veat you done.

>> it lies with all ofif us. ou're a mayor of a city the flash point is the relationship tween the police department and neighborhoods.et we worked withng our police officers to almost have city councilmembers do foot patrol walk the neighborhoods, to show up not just when there's an emergency but fun fair, block party, trying to thicken those relationships. a lot of it is quality time. when wve had a moment or incident that tried to divide us racially in thecity we made sure we invest in the face time it takes to reestablish trust. at the end of the day people need to see trust. that's how trust os built. that of the things i worry about nationally. you have folks in charge of the government who almost believe as a matter of principle in destroying it. ngen you don't have results, see people's lives get better, it further motivates people to want to bring the house down. >> lastnth some i.c.e. atmosphere arrested two of your constituents in south bend.o

whatu make of the idea of the bol issue i.c.e. movement that some people in the progressivend of the spectrum have called for? i know it's illegal to be aci sanctuar in indiana but gary has pushed the envelope. why haven't you? >> so w vhave workedy hard to be a welcoming city because the current immigration policies are just wrong. people who are really important parts of our cmunity are bein torn apart from their families. this is not making us safer. it is not making us stronger. now, whe it comes to i.c.e., i don't care what the agency in charge ofur agency and border enforcement is called, i care what it does.on asas you have an agency, even if you get rid of i.c.e. and called it something else, being ordered to tear families apart from one another or being red to make it harder to get on a path to citizenship, you're going to continueveo h heartbreaking stories that are not helping anybody, whether we're talking about the do mented immigrants concerned or whether you're talking about the communities they are part of. >> int to move a little bit

to where you stand in the party. you heard joe biden. he said, boy, the definition of progressive now ems to be changing. he says now it's about whether you're a socialist or what's a ogreal ssive. i know you have been somebody trying to push back on ts whole labeling issue but put yourself on the spectrum here. what should democrats see in yo what do you want democrats to see in you idealogically. >> i think i'm are prive. >> a capitalist? >> look, americas capitalist society but it's got to be democratic capitalism. that part is really important and it's slipping away from us. in other words, when capitalism comes into tension with democracy, which is more important to you? i believe democracy is morert imt. when you have capitalism capturing democracy, when you have the kind of regulatory capture where powerful corporations are able to arrangh rules for their benefit, that's not real capitalism. if you want to see whaouhappens when have capitalism without democracy, you can see it very

clearly in russia. it turns into crony capitalism and that tus into oligarchy. i know the temptation from the area is align everybody as dots on a speck up trum but that's not how voters think. think mathematically in saint joe, indiana, who must have voted for obama and mike pence and me. there's a lot mores to t than ideological analysi especially with ideology scrambled having a president that doesn't have eology just a style. a hostile takeover othe republican party while the democratic party has only been able to explain its ideology by comparing to republicans for the better part of myimlif >> you said the president it's hard to look at his actions and believe he believes inod how do you square that with the evangelicals? >> it's something that frtrates me because the

hypocrisy is unbelievable. here you have somebody that not only acts in a way that's not consistent with anything i hear in scripture, lifting up those among us, immigrants,yo focusin efforts on the poor but personally how you're supposed to conduct yourself n lk at me-ism but humbling yourself among others. foot washing is a entral im in the new testament. we see the diametric opposite of that in this presidency. i think there was a cynical process where he decided to, for example, pretend to be pro-life and govern accordinglyhich was good enough to bring many evangelicals over to his side. but evene on version of christianity that you hear from the religious right, whicht is abxual ethics, i candlelight believe that somebody writing hush money checks to adult film actresses is somebody they should be lifting up as the kindf person who should be leading this

nation. >> you grew up in thegu ly the most famous catholic town in the country. i'm curious on abortion. i know what your stance is. you have a place pro-life democrats that don't get courted nationally anymore. how do you square that and what is your definition. when does life begin? is there any role for government in abortion. >> as someone pro-choice but someone with many friends d pporters that see it differently than i do. it begins with good lefaith. perrive on their convictions often from deeply felt and sincerely held place. in my view, thisis a question that is almost knowable, a moral question settled by science. the best way to be practice is by the person who actually faces the choice. when a woman isis facing decision in her life, i think

terms of somebody beside her most useful, the answer to that uld be a doctor, not a male government official imposing his interpretation of his religion. >> the final question i ask you about, the second amendment. you come from a second amendment htstate. some mrgue whatever that means to folks. do you tnk the second amendment as it's written prevents gun control the way the supreme court says it does? >> i don't think it has to. wehee already decided within framework of the second amendment we're going to draw a line. shall not be infringed clearly doesn't mean you're entitled to a nuclear weapon. some between s a slingt and nuclear weapon we're going to draw a line about what makes sense. the same way my right to free speech doesn't include yelling fire in a theater, my right to swing my fist where somebody's nose begins. a society can live by and honor the lifestyle of sporting, which is where so many family bon are created, just a deep part of

our tradition and the idea thate people should equipped to defend themselves if they need to. >> unftely i have to leave it there. pete buttigieg, thanks for being on. stay safe on the trail. i look forward to asking you other estions. we didn't get to foreign policies. >> i'll take tat as an invite. >> it is an invite. when we come back joe biden, when we come back joe biden, cmy insurance rates are probably gonna double.

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♪ ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ welcome back. panelist here hugh hewitt, heather mcghee, veteran of presidential campaigns past and seni fellow at think tank and two from "politico" o writ our second favorite newsletter playbook. seor washington correspondent and senior writer jake sherman. more importantly jake andnna

author of the very readable new book, the hill to die t on, hill, of course, being capitol hill. we're going to get to your book in a littlebit. this simply is the longest interview i've had with mayorpe . heather, this is your side of u e spectrum, how did he do? what do think? >> i think he did great. he's a very impressive persona rhod scholar, navy veteran, a year younger than me and already run a city. >> he's 10 years younger than me and i'm going what the hell have i done. >> i think in the moe nt when wending out who is pete. next we need to find out what's he going to do with american families. voters are interested in the biography, how will you change thefe of my children? fow will you help me afford college, that type thing. we're at a breaking point in country. people need to see demonstrable change in their shot at the merican dream. that's whyey are asking candidates for platforms. that's something that's not yet

part of his story.ot it'sn his website. what are the ideas. >> the path the presidency gos through in the rust belt. it has, itll this time, the rust belt. >> bt profile deindustrialization of the midwest in hisi bones. ink that's true. this was another hurdle crossed for mayor pete. i've been following him closely. he worries me from a republican standpoint. i would like to have0 democrats on the stage with 5% each. right now bernie sanders is going to be the front-runner by money. the vice president and you've got this rocket ship coming up. the ability to give aood interview and hold the attention of the american people. i always said donald trump is the very best intview in america because he holds the attention of the audience and remains the very bes interview in america but i think mayor pete might give him a run. >> the othe t end o age spectrum is joe biden. it is interesting to me and dan bowles tackled that this morning, gets us to biden. he literally is a 21st century democrat and we're having this

debate whether biden is 21st century enough. >> clearly you saw pete buttigieg lean into the fact of his age and drawing a stark contrast subtly. >> what did he sa 2054 i'll be the same age as the president. >> exactly. i think what you see on the biden front and clearly for the last week plus feels like hne s to put some more oil in the machine there in terms of what the response is, how sitow as. is he made for the campaign of 2020? right now i think there's some big questions there. >> i think he hasn't gotten in, which is stunning to me. if he were in the race, joe biden and out giving such speeches every day he ould be able to talk about something besides these allegations or else he could a address it move on. he's not in the race for reasons thatre not clear t me and it gives a vacuum for someone like mayor pete to get in, shape the dialogue, shape the debate and say we need somebody of this ge ration. >> he's still leading the latest polls average 7 points. >> he being joe biden.

>> joe biden.th reason is this sense of electability. democratic prima votersid by 20 points i'd rather have someone who will winhan someone who wants the country that i want, who has the same ideology a me. that's huge. that's about the nightmare of not wanting to wake up to an electoral college victoryru of donald again. we need to change electable. we have voted for change, disrupting the statusmeuo every e've had the chance since the financial crash. i don't think joe biden reesents the ki of change particularly younger voters, the biggest bloc in 2020 needo see. >> i want to go back to one thing mayor pete told you. he would enter with more military experience than george h.w. bush, unless seth gets in as a 9/11 veteran. that's impressive. every american ought to respect that even if they aren't going to vote for hi that sets him apart from everybody else on the democratic platform even bernie ahead on

money and enthusiasm. it's worth noting and deserves respect. >> i'm curious, matthew from washington free beacon wrote something interesting comparing him to the rest of the field. i find him interesting what he reveals about the democratic field upstaged k3458z, amy klobuchar,nd cory booker a others dreaming of this minute. joying his 15 minutes because even the most talented of these elected officials have yet to stand out. fair shot, jake? >> absolutely. i think vote don't want washington. y saw that with donald trump. >> the worst thi can have as senator. >> that's probably right. this guy has run a city. has he a story to tell that doesn't include going to the floor of the senate forur clo votes. >> i think he would say the orth cloture. >>think that's probably right. >> americans love the underdog. the media loves a underdog. he comes into the race. i don't think anybody took him riously, thinking he was going to be a top contender at all. he's kind of this rocket ship,

as you said. just wondering, can he keep that momentue. that's theion i have. >> i want to switch a little bit, frank got to this, mayor pete criticized is he gay enough, kamala harris, is she black enough. this argument that's going on in the party, perhaps -- here is barack obama. let's play president obama on this yesterday, believe it or t, and see what he says about this. >> one of the things i do worry amongsometimes progressives in the united states, maybe it's true here as s a certain kind ofgi ty where we see, i'm sorry, this is how it's going to be. then we start sometimes creating what's called a circular firing squad. >> heather, i thought stacey abrams said the other day, there's the line ayatollah evbo

is searching for forgiveness with accountability. that seemsd to ug to be the se, forgiveness with accountability. >> we're right now evolving we t mocratic party is. people who do focus groups say all the time republicans very defined. people know what they are voting for with republicans. democrats you basicallyo have have everyone else. what you're seeing with this huge primary, debates about identity, a recognition that identity shapes your experience in this country. for most people how you look, your identity who you love shapes how people treat you and have.ircumstances you so it does matter. >> is president obama right, though? could this get too rinl i hgid leol? >> abely. it's extremely rigid on the right. people not being able to talk about anything other than pro nuclear weapons on the streets. the second amendment fundamentalism oright wing is very strong. at the same time i do think these are important debates. i think people wan to know what they are going to do for the

country. >> all right thank you. we're going to pause it here. when we come backormer presidential nominee, former presidential nominee, former massachusetts governor plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and experts agree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a little more... like plants. ♪ rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function.

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kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. welcome back. most republicaeroffice ho cive been reluctant, even a bit scared, to cris president trump, not mitt romney. just two days before he took the oath as a new senator from utah, mitt romney wrote this, "presidential leadership and qualities of character is indispensable. it is in this province where the incumbent shortfall has been stunning. he says he's tougher on illegal immigration than the president. hitt romney joins me now from salt lake city i first "meet the press" appearance as

senator romney. in fact, we were just debating do you prefer governor o senator, still. >> the term governor is always better but i guess i've got to go by my current title senator. mitt is just nfine. >> wf met a senator that didn't miss being governor. let me srt with what the president said about immigration and asylum seekers. here it is, sir. >> this is ours new tement. the system is full. can't take you anymore. whether it's asylum, whether it's anything you wanilgal immigration, can't take you anymore. can't take you. our country is full. >> it's a little jarring to hear an american president say our country is full given the history of the united states of america. how did you take that comment? >> well, we've seenma a dc shift in the nature of immigration and illegal immigration just over thewe las

fes. a number of years ago and up until just a few weeks ago, the great majority of people coming into our country were coming looking for work. single men and oftentimes returned at the border, sent back homexto o. in the last few weeks there's been a dramatic change. that is we're seeing unaccompanied younll people as s families with lots of kids pring into the border and i'm say the magic word, seeking asylum. by virtue of our laws we bring them into the rycou we don't begin to have enough space in the facilities to maintain the kind of care these people deserve, so they are being turned out into our country, 125,000 of them so far this year. it is overwhelming our system. we've got to be able it deal with this in. w it's going to take some legislation to get it fixed. > that's what i'm curiou about. how would you handle this. the president threatened to impose on mexico, tariff on car if theython't help he

border, shipped to mexico, threatened foreign aid to three central american countries where these people are fleeing. it's called a carrot and stick approach for a reason. he's only providing sticks. doesn't seem to have a carrot here anywhere. >> well, i thinkhether or not has to happen is an effort for ocrats to s and d come together generally with presidential leadership. that's what's going to be esseial to get us all together. >> i heard your hesitation there. es he have the credibility to do this? >> well, he does. he has the capacity to bring together the top democrats, the top republicans and sit down and say, okay, what can we do legislatively to make sure we're not creating extraordinary asylum magnet bringing people into the country. in my opinion, t democrats are making a huge error by smaking bordurity an issue saying it's a partisan issue. look, this is an american issue. we can't have millions upon millions of people flooding into

our country without a bord's thsecure, without i.c.e. making sure people here illegally are sent back. this is a winning issue i think for republicans but more importantly it's a winning issue for americans to say we have to have the sovereignty of our nationes i think the ent has tapped into something which people feel very deeply. >> one of the things you said is you'd be tougher on illegal immigration than president trump, your positions. give me an example where you feel asre if yoougher on this than he is. >> well, i was refer to a time some yhrs ago i was running for president and noted i was not in favor of the dream act. the presidentpo sed earlier in 2017 giving the daca individuals legalresidency. i was referring to that point. >> are you still against them drt? >> well, it's been put in place by president obama and i believe we have responsibility to fulfill what is a presidential pledge and tment. so that's in the past. i would provide legal status for

those dreamers in t country. that's something that the table.nt has put on the i think we should get that job done and hope we will get that job done. overall we need to complete the border we need to have a system that keeps people from getting jobs here if ey are here illegally. that's an ife-v system and then we've got to deal with the asylve issue that'shelming our system. >> let me move to health care. to me it's aore trickier situation given you won re-election, i believe -- excuse me, you won election in utah on the same ballot that m aority of your constituents wanted to see medicaid expanded. so what would you do now with health care? would you scrap the system we have and build from scratch, or do you take the obamacare infrastructure, which many will note was modelled in some ways off of what you did in massachusetts, and try to reform from there? >> w let's begin by putting it in context, which is obamacare applies to about 20,

maybe 25% of the for 75 to 80% of the population, we get ournsurance through our employer or through medicare or through traditional so obamacare is just 20, 25% of the right now with obamacare, that's a federal program. to see what you're going from republicans is a federal-state partnership where the federal government sets the paraters and the states are given more flexibility to create ways to care f their own low income individuals. so i think paederal-state nership is a much wiser way to go. working of senators are on those kind of ideas. i know the white house is as well. i think u're going to see proposals coming from our side that say, look, we can make the current system of private inrance, which 75, 80% of americans have, we can keep that in ple, getosts down, more flexibility and obamacare needs tolee rep by the way, democrats agree with

us. they agree with us on getting rid of amacare. they are calling for medicare for all. a medicare f wipes out obamacare. >> the irony is not lost. i'm waiting forepublicans to start defending obamacare as things move on, honestly. i want to ask you about the medicaid decision by constituents. the legislature wants to tighten what your constituents wanted. is that the right ca? >> the legislature in utah said, sure if want to make we're going to expand our medicaid population, we're going to only do so as long as the federal government is picking up 90% of the bill. if the federal government decides to back off the 90% number, then we theattate legie don't want to pick up the bill. i think it's a reasonable osition the legislature has taken. >> you are very aggressive in getting candidate donald trump to rry tolease his tax returns. he now wants to fight this effort by congress all the way to the supreme court. while i can haybe understa

wants to do it on privacy grounds, he still doesn't want to show the country his tax returns. how problematic is that? >> well, i'd like the president to follow through and show his tax returns. said he would, i think it was on the "today" show, he saidre woulase tax returns. i have to also tell you i think the democrats are playing along his handbook, which is going after his tax returns through a legislative actionis moronic. that's not going to happen. the courts are not going to say you can compel a person rofning foce to release their tax returns. so he's going to win this victor he wins them time after time. the green new deal, all th oe candidat there talking about getting rid of obamacare andar traditional health and putting in place medicare, these things are just onstarters. i think the democratic party is finding itself in a realti difficult po with those kind of positions. >> very quickly, it is coming up to an election year. jeb bush who ran for president in 2016, he said recently he

thinks it woulorbe healthy the republican party some somebody challenged donald trump to have a real debate about what is conservative anymore. he's for higher deficits, you're for lower deficits. he's for tariffs, you're not a tari guy. one could argue trump and romney present the contrast of the two differt views of differencism. >> -- of consereatism. >> tre differences. i was in the president's office and said i disagreed with steel and alumin tariffs. i said i'm overwhelmingly in favor of what you're doing on china. can you get as hard as you want to get pushing back on china. i think yo can also say the president has followed republican playbook when it comes to domestic economy, lowering taxes, lowering regulation. the kpli is doing well. hard not to recognize that's a strong record. time will tell. parties do just fine when there's a primary.

>> mitt romney, now senator from utah. in tes halls of con we'll call you governor, i promise. thanks for coming on for an interview. >> thank you. >> i want to note the passing of the south carolina democrat's passing. believe it o notor 36 of his 38 years in the senate he was actually the state'sjunior senator to strom thurmond. hollings began his political career as a segregationist and came a moderate even supported jesse jackson for president in 1988. he was known for his quick wit and sharp tong >> >> we've been playing games both sides, read our lips. the country is doing well we don't have any problems. justoleicians have a problem. comcast business built the nation's largest gig-speed network.

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back now end game and i just a fantastic book by our friends jake and anna, the high to die on. you have a lot of fun anecdotes. i don't have to do expletive delete >> pg 13. >> when you cover president trump you have to have a rating. the prlyident periodic engaged in all out arguments leaving them bitter and per terd. in one tweet, told quit tweets about crowd size. who the [ expletive ] are you? he did say he had the biggest inauguraon ever. it struck me this anecdote when i was talking toom senatory about how does he have

credibility to convene on the hill, what is the president's credibility on capitol hill? >> i think it's mixed. what we decided to do was turn the camera around. we thought there was eugh coverage of trump as an individual person, we wanted to see how congres as a syste reacted to the president. we have a lot of anecdotes like this about the president getting into huge argumentsit members of congress and his style behind rde scenes. we were given extrary access by leading members of congress to capture these incredible moments of a guynewh har been in government in his life, how he would iwieract members of congress, many of whom had bent in govern their entire life. >> i'm going to play a phone conversation you guysee got betrump and pelosi after the first infamous chuck and nancy moment, daca for the wall, ,verybody is in love with tru chuck, and nancy. apparently trump calls pelosi d, hey, nance trump said to pelosi on a private phone call. greato be with you. you and check getting rave reviews. me, i'm okay. your two friends referring to

paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, not so good. the funtry need add dose this. this is whether or not drives republicans on capitol hill bonkers. >>bsolutely. i think what the book really illustrates is how often thean government to do deals with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, two people's ery familiar with for the past 20 years. i think this is just another exple of republicans thinking he's got to leave us high and dry on any occasion when he thinks there could be a deal done. he's not interested in the substance. >> heather, i have to think when you hear that on the one hand, donald trump the individual i think does want to cut deals with whoever. but he doesn't idealogically look like a guy ady to cut deals. >> no, because he's always looking back at fox news. >> roped back in or whatever that is. >> most importantly he knows this economy, eoun it's doing great for headlines is still not working for are most americans. he uses the scapegoats of immigrts, poor people, black families, this is what he does time and time again. is a more broad republican playbook than president trump

but he's mastered it, divide and conquer and districts from what's happening in american famihees. >> hugh, you read their book, you sit there and think it is unbelievablw little he's gotten through congress. hyen you read the book you understand >> he has gotten through 37 court appointees and>>judges. i'm talking about stuff. >> supreme court justices. >>artisan warfare. he's not gotten a big deal, big legislation. erything he's done is on a partisan basis. he can't figure out how to do things. >> the best quote, the hill to die on,re quotingdent trump saying there are ratings for everything. president trump, and you guys capture eris, is v aware that every day is a struggle for attention and ratings approval. that's captured. so he doesn't need to get anything through the hill other ththan thosegs that generate ratings for him on the primary side in the neral election. by the way, going back to immigration. it seems to me immigration for him is a 2020 crunch. he doesn't want a solution yet.

he needs the issue. is that the way capitol hill is responding? >> i don't think anybody believes theo 's going an immigration deal before the 2020 election. i don't think democrats -- it's he to democrats in terms of turning out the base, getting people riled up, aboutki actual of framing the debate as a contrast to the president. >> back on planet earth, president trump has rejected two major immigration deals he could have hadith democratsnd that his party supported. so the president has been all over the mapn this issue. we catalog in the hill to die on has been close to chuck schumer and paul ryan. he's been all pover thece on this issue. >> heather, what do democrats need to say on ther? bor do you think they can advocate open borders? >> open border is a framing from the right wing, fox news, that has never been the democratic position. >> what do you say? >> democratic positionn has b for almost 20 years now, a path to citenship, a humane and agal way for people desperate

to becomeerican citizens to do so. things like the dream act. i was surprised to hear mitt romney sort of capitulate on the agreement act. this is enormoly popular even with most republican voters. this country has alwayseen a country that has said you are an american if you come here, work hard. we used toave racial quotas on immigration, people come in, get off a boat and walk into the country. this new paradigm we have a very criminalized immigration system is contrary to what i think most americans want. >> hugh, should the president's at then team at all look results in arizona, new mexico and texas in 2018 and get a little nervous about the border. >> should look at doug ducey and see what he's done on the border, which is work to fix every problem. there is a role problem at the border. 125,000 people i believe last month. it's a genuine crisis. i'm the last optimist. >> create offic b -- >>ieve this is out of the

el salvador and venezuela and the sooner maduro is gone, they have got to onet a solu because it's a genuine crisis. >> thank you, guys. before we go, do you wonder what we talk about on the pan after "meet the press" is over. the new and improv podcast, the toddcast because dad humor works here. i'll let you in on wha we' thinking about 2020 and more. stuff better left unsaid on vi teon. you subscribe to chuck toddcast wherever you get youd st. that's all for today. thank you very much for watching. we'll beeack week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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late sunday evening, the secretary of homeland security abruptly resigns. why was the president soed frustrat and what does it mean for u.s. immigratioolicy? >> a shooting spree over the weekend in chicago, 24 shots in 30 hours, including three children under 13 years ofge >> freed, the american kidnapped at gunpoint and htad h five days while on safari in uganda has been released. did a ransom lead to her freedom? >> a investigation into three historically black churches that were set on fire in the same south louisiana parish in just ten days. >> in a thrilling final the lady bears at baylor university are your ncaa