take your business beyond. this sunday the democrats' new reality as the field of candidates grows. look who's sitting at the top of the polls. >> the single most important ing we have to accomplish is defeat donald trump. [ cheers ] >> establishment joe biden who hasged past the early progressive favorites. >> your help, we're going to win the democray.c primar >> we need big structural change is in 2020. >> bullied by the perception that he's best positioned to defeat -- buoyed by the perception that he's best positioned to defeat donald trump. the prospects who have been hurt so far by e former vice president's entry, bernie sanders of vermont. and abortion battle, lawsct

restrig access to abtion. republicans cheer the challenges to roe v. wade. >> all life is pressure douse. >> democrats condemn them. >> women's health care is under attack, and we will not stand forit. >> all setting up a 2020 culture fight and a possible supreme court battle over abortion rights.al , rising tensions with iran. >> mr. esident, are we going to war with iran? >> i hope not. >> why some say iran is a growing threat to the united states. >> they take the first militar strike, we will take the last military strike. >> while others fear repeating the mistake of iraq. or guest republican sen tom cotton of arkansas. joining me for insight and analysis are "washington post" columnist eugene robion, nbc news national political correspondent heidi przbela, rich lowery, editor of "national review," andan former homel security secretary janet napolitano. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the ess."

from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning once again. conventional wisdom has provede to b conventional than wise. not long ago the washington smarty pants crowd protected the democratic party had mared shply to the left. that bernie sanders was positioned to be the clear presidential front-runner, and that 20th century joe biden shouldsi seriously conr not running for the noemination of the 21st's century of the democratic party. since he entered the race less than four weeks ago, joe biden hadominated the polls. this is last poll showing him lapping sanders and cshing the field. president trump's near obsession with biden is much more likely a sign of fear than of confidence. all of which is not to say that the democraticarty has not moved to the left. it has. and i'll talk to bernie sanders in just a moment. but let's also ackwledge that

we may experience biden whiplash yet again. we haven't eaven h a debate, seen an attack ad, or watched biden experience the gauntlet of the campaign trail on a daily basis. we'rearning that the progressive activist's twitter verse doesn't necessarily reflect the larger democratic universe. for now, it seems, biden is having his moment. >> if you wantha to know the first and most important plank in my climate proposal is - betrump. [ cheers ] >> at a kickoff rally in philadelphia yesterday, formere vice pdent joe biden leaned into the idea that he is the democrat best positioned to beat donald trump. >> if the american people want d prest to add to our division, lead with a clenched fist, a closed hand, a hard heart, to demonize your opponents, to spew hatred, they don't need me. they've got president donald trump. >> with the mushrooming field of 24 candidates and counting, 2020

democrats are jockeying to sell the perception of electability. >> we're not waiting for ideas. what's missing is courage. >> i beat donald trump. i beat him 21 times in ra row i court. >> i've been watching him his whole adult life. >> 73% of democrats call it extremely important that the democratic candidate for president can beat president trump. just 51% say it's extremely important the nominee shares their views on major issues. >> if trump is re-elected and he sets to put more people on the supreme court, it' going to be a nightmare for many generations to come. >> reporter: that angst and biden's ascension in polling is driving a number of contenders to distance themselves from some of the morv progress ideas circulating like ending private insurance -- >> that's not what i meant. i know it was interpret that way. >> the bill gets rid of insurance. >> no, no, no, it does not get rid of insurance. >> and breaking up big tech

companies. sounds more like a donald trump thing to say, i'm going to break up you guys -- no. we need to create systems. >>eporter: biden's rise in the polls has opponents taking a cautiousaim. attempting to remind voters he's a candidate of the past. >> vice president biden is a good person and was a greatice president. i believe that i'm the candidate for our time. >> it's time for the generation that fought in iraq and afghanistan to step in for the generation that sent us ther >> it is not the real world to think mitch mcconnell is goingt embrace a major effort to mobilize against the climate crisis. >> that 1994 crime bill, it -- it didontribute to mass incarceration in our country. >> while the progressive wing of the party sharpens their attacks. >> joe biden is on the side of credit card companies. >> i will be damned if the sameo politicians wrefuse to act then are going to try to come back today and say we need a t middle of road approach to save our lives. >> among them, bernie sanders,

who was the front-runner inrl y polling before biden entered the race. >> i disagree with many of the votes that he cast. ied the effort against the trade agreements. joe voted for them. the war in iraq. i voted against it, joe voted for it. >> and joining me now for the first time in a year on "meet the press" is senator bernie sanders of vermont. senator sanders, good to have you back, sir. >> good to be with you, chuck. >> l me start with something the former vice president said yesterday. it was a fascinating way -- he was talking about his climate change proposal. and he said if you w what the first and most important plank in my climate proposal is, it was, quote, beat trump. you have said if all the democrats do is focus on trump you'll lose. essentially biden is saying,no, no, no, it is all about trump. your reaction? >> well, i think democratsgoave to do a couple of things. number one it goes without saying that we have got to defeat donald trump, who in my

view is the most dangerous president in the modern history of this country. he's alo pathocal liar. he's a sexist and a racist, et cetera, et cetera. but that is not enough. if we are talking, for example, about climate change, what the scientists tell us is that we have 12 years before irreparable damages done to this planet. beating trump is not good enough. you got to beat the fossil fuel industry. you have to take on all of those forces of the status quo who do not want to move this country to energy efficiency and sustainable energies. chuck, what the scientists tell us is that the future of the planet ist stake. and we have a moral responsibility to make sure that our kids live grandchildren live in a healthy and habitable planet. that means massive investments in wind, solar, so forth. taking on trump, of course you got to do that. >> right. >> but you need a real plan to ansform our energy system. >> another way to look at it is

you have to win, right. one of the cases you need to make to democrats is win -- the former head of the democratic party in pennsylvania -- and i bother that joe biden has a lot of support in pennsylvania. ut here's what he said about you -- he said this, "i'm supremely confidenter bernie sa could not win pennsylvania. when bernie sanders and elizabeth warren open their mouths, many, many democrats in pennsylvania stick their fingers in their ears." tell us how you win pennsylvania. >> look, let me just say this to ed who i've known for many years and the entire democratic establishment, let me tell this to ed, that there are millions of people who are sick and tired of that democratic establishment. what ed should know is that a rent poll that came out had me, if i'm not mistaken, eight points ahead of trump in pennsylvania. we've had polls which have me way ahead of him in michigan and wisconsin. and in fact, all over this country. now the reason that we can beat, that my campaign can beat donald trump is we're going to create the excitement thae need to bring out the large voter

turnout. we're going to bring out young eople who not only a interested and are going to fight for real climate change, they want to raise that minimum wage to $15 an hour. a fight that i have been helping to lead. they want health care for all, medicare for all single-payer program. they understand that it is absurd that young people should be lving college $50,000, $60,000, $100,000 in debt. they want public colleges td universitition free. they want criminal justice reform. they want immigration reform. the truth ispahat our camn i think can generate that excitement. our generation can talk to some, some of the trump supporters wha now know t they were lied to when trump said he was going to provide health care to everybody and then tried to throw 32 llion people off the health care. i think we are the campaign that can beat donald trump. >> senator, i would argue, you made very similar case against hillary clinton four years ago. and you came up short. why do yo think this time is -- >> chuck -- >> when it seems an eaustive -- i'm saying, you have a part

of the democratic party that seems to be gravitating toward biden. go ahead. >> you know we came up short, yeah. we took on the entire democratic establishment. we tookn the democratic national committee. we took on every democratic governor, took on every democratic mayor, and we ended up winning 22 states and 13 million vote. and in fact bringing forthn agenda that transformed the democratic party. four years ago, people were not talking about the issues they're talking about now. so i understand that our campaign is unique in the sense that we're going to try w to the democratic primary, going to try to beat trump. what else we're going to try is to transform the united states of america, deal with this massive level of income and wealth inequality, deal with wall street, deal with the greed of the drug companies and the insurance companies and the fossil fuel industry. our campaign has a different goal. it's to transform this country, and we're taking on the entire establishment when we do that

including ed rendell. >> i want to focus a second on medicare for all. michael bennett, another candidate for president, believed that the lesson of 2018 was not medicare for allut fix obamacare. i would like you to take a listen to what he said to me .arlier this year about th >> now what democrats are saying is if you like your insurance, we're going to take it away from you, fm 180 million people, that get their insurance from their employer and like it. or 20 million americans on medicare advantage and love it. that seems like a bad opening offer for me. >> and senator, i'm well aware that you believe that, look, you were in favor of obamacare, but it was not your first choice, and i know that. but as you know, there's a lot of voters who voted for democrats in 2018 to fix obamacare first, then look and see, okay, should it be something different. are you oblated to fix obamacare first? >> well, we're obligated to make

sure that trump and the republicans do not throw tens of millions of people off their health care that they currently are enjoying. but here's the point -- thes point i the current health care system is absolutely dysfunctional. you've got 34 million without any health insurance, even more who are underinjured, elderly people -- under insured, elderly people can't afford hearing aids, eyeglasses. for all of that we managed to spend twice as much per capita p health care as people of any other country and the highest amount for prescription drugs. i know the health care industry, the drug and insurance companies will spend hundreds millions of dollars including ads on nbc, attacking bernie sanders, attacking medicare for all. but you know what, you look at the polling. the people support medicare very, very strongly. all we are say gg is you've a good program in medicare, expand it to everybody else, improve medicare for senior anhen we do that, we're going dcitizens. to provide comprehensive care to l people, and we're going to do it by saving substantial sums of money in the dysfunctional

health care system. >> under your plan we're eliminating private insurance, correct? ea we're going to provide comprehensive hh care to all people, and what you're going to have is private insurance if people want it for settlementry type benefits -- supplementary type benefits, cosmetics and so forth. >> everyone has the same baseline government health care insurance under your plan? >> the government health care is what medicare is right now. if you look at the polling, medicare is far more popular thanrivate health insurance. people like medicare. we have to expand it to cover every man, woman, and child over a four-year perit. >> w do you say to people worried about the disruption? everybody hates their health care until you try to disrupt em of their current system. >> well, i'm not so sure about that. what i do know, what i do know is that the massive disruption. one of the problems with the health care system right now is if your ucemployer, ch decides to get another insurance company, you may be able -- you'll be losing the d you

currently go to, will have to pay a lot more to get it. every time somebody loses their job, every time some employer changes health insurance policy, there is disruption. that impacts tens of millions of people. when youar have medic for all, you will finally have stability. everybody in the country will have comprehensive health care covering all health care needs. we will save taxpayers, we will save the citizens of this country on health care substantial amounts of money. >> i want to ask about thebiuff moves in the state legislatures this year and this week on the issue of boorlwiabo- you have a litmus test for candidates in 2020. it's clear no matter which side your own, if will be on the t ballot issue of the supreme court justices, do you believe in the roe litmus test? >> i believe what they did ins alabama i unbelievable. other states are doing it. the idea that women in this country shod. be ableo control their own bodies is beyond belief.

they have that constitutional right. so if you're ask mg would i ever appoint a supreme court stice who does not believe in defending roe v. wade, who does not believe that a woman has a right to control her own body, i will never do that. >> do you believe there should be any restrictions on abortion in law? >> t i thinkt that is a decision that is being made -- that should be made by the woman and her physician. and i think many of -- what people are doing, say, is creating a political issue out of a medical issue. so the decision about women should be able to conowol their body, and those decisions are made by a doctor and the woman. >> are you at all concerned, though, about the idea that people may try to worry about he sex of a child, or essentially look at that and -- are those type of restrictions on abortion something you're open to? >> let's let -- i wouldn't use a

restriction. that's an issue that society has got to deal with, and it is of concern. >> how would you deal witan tha the law? >> i don't know how at this particular point i would deal with it. that's a issue we've got to deal with. >> i want to move to foreign policy. "the new york times" spent a lot of time talking about your trips to central america. i know you got worked upos abou th things. i think the larger question, and i -- let me frame the question this way -- the larger question is going to be'r if you the nominee, whether you like it or not, the right's going to basically hammer and sickle you to death. w do you prevent it? >> well, i don't mind the right wing doing it, i understand they will do it. i don't want the media to do it. look, when i was a young man, i plead guilty, i -- i worked hard as a young man against the war in vietnam. i don't apologize for that. as a member of the united states house, i helped lead the effort against the war in iraq which

turns out to have been the worst foreign policy blunder in the modern history of the united states. as a united states senator i led the effort to pass a bipartisan resolution to get america out of the war in yemened by saudi arabia. and i got to tell you, i hope you pay attention to yemen. what's going on in yemen nows the worst humanitarian disaster in the world. we're talking about hundreds of thousands of oppe. children dying. i'm doing my best to get the u.s. out of that war. and i trump wants to go to war in iran, that will make the war in iraq look like aake walk. it will make it -- we've got to if everything we can to stop that. eople want to attack me because i think war should be the last resort, you can attack me. i've seen toouch -- i was chairman of the senate committee on veterans affairs. i talked to too many veterans who's lives were destroyed by the war in iraq. i will do everything i can to see problems solved

diplomatically rather an throughr. >> a couple of questions -- i'm curious, on the issue of the u.s. embassy in jerusalem, would you me it back out of jerusalem if you thought it was a way to get a peace deal? >> yeah. --hink it's something that can't give a definitive answer, but yeah. the answer is whether it is iran and saudi arabia, whether it is israel and the palestinians, the united states needs to bring people together. needs an even-handed policy. inab saudi ar, for example, for decades we have supported a murderous regime which fights demo sacy everygle day. so i want an even-handed policy which brings people together, which -- >> would you move the embassy now out of jerusalem, or wouldp you keet there -- >> chuck, that is -- we'll take that one step at atime. it's something, you know -- l botte is we need to be -- we are the most powerful country on earth. let's bring people together and try to bring peace.

>> a final question on the foreign policy oiont. you p out humanitarian problems all the time. how would you deal with china and the muslims that -- i guess they call it care-eng. how do you hold chaeina accountable for that without wrecking the economy? >> well, i don't think you have to wreck the economy to tell china that you cannot have i guess it's the equivalent of almost concentration camps. look, the united states and -- very sadly under donald trump, we have moved in exactly the wrong way. he supports awe authoritarian governments all over the world. i believe we have to support democracy and human rights. i think china is a partner, we have to deal with tradees issu it should be known that we cannot allow, we have to oppose governments that are doing terrible things to minorities -- >> is there -- is humanitarian reas rs ason to use military force? you know, that's what we did in kosovo and bosnia. >> well, it depends obviously you have to look at case by

case. if you are talking about the need to prevent nocide, yeah, i guess so. knu ow, but obviously every situation is different. >> okay. senator bernie sanders, to a lot. i always wish we can get to more. i hope we see youen more oft than we have in the last year. thanks for sharing your views. stay safe on the trail. appreciate it. when we come back, the democratic race and the number that should have president trump concerned. the panel is next. concer the pa the ai i need? it's gotta scale across my business. is

welcome back. the panel is here. "washington post" columnist eugene robinson, university of california system janet napolitano, author of "how safe are we" and rich lowry, editor of national review. heidi presbela and rich lowry editor of "national review." nice to see you on this coast. >> i guess it's good to be back.

>> let me start with a couple of pieces of conventional wisdom that might be exploding before our eyes. first i want to put up the fox news poll. there is an interesting number here. first of all, it shows biden with a double-digit lead, 49-38. then look at theenatchups and he trump number. do you see a pattern there? sanders, 46-41. harris, 41-41. buttigieg lucky for trump doesn't get to 41 so he can lead somebody, but 41 -- i'm trying to figure out walch conventiisdom is more inaccurate. that joe biden can't get the nomination or that president trump is underrated as a candidate? sometimes i think we overrate the president's stance because because of '16. >> yeah. i mean, but how can you not factor that in? i would expect him -- unless the democrats have poise in this nomination process or pick a perilous candidate to be running behind from the outside of the general election race, on biden, hook, i confess, i totally underestimated his strength. i overestimated the power of the left.

maybe not surprising, tim a conservave pundit i would get that wrong and expect that i would get that wrong. a lot of the democratic field got it wrong. and may now be mipositioned to fight him for the large centerra of the democc party. >> eugene, it does seem as if a lot of democrats spent too much time on twitter. >> yeah, some peopdo -- >> they twitter is -- the twitter verse is not the universe. and it's more to the left. the conventional wisdom on twitter and in sort of political circles was that biden was too conservative. he would have a hard time. i got to say, i never quite bought that because there is a larger democratic part for one thing, you have to get support from african-americans. you have to get support if latinos. you have to get a lot of voters are are not -- some of who fairly socially conservative and who are, you know, kind of the salt of the earth types that yo

don't associatth, you know, the most left progressive policies necessarily. so my answer is let's see what happens when biden came in.ve i haeen surprised at the size of his early lead. it is impressive. >> it's impressive. >> janet, you live and breathe the california world. and sometimes people think uc berkeley or bay area you live in your own bubble. s m curious. this is joe biden'ssage to all democrats yesterday. i want to play a pie of it. >> our president is the divider in chief.te trump inheria economy from obama-biden administration that was given him, just like he inherited everything else in his life. want to know what the first and most important plank in the climate proposal is? beat trump. >> is that going to cay? i think of the bay area. people you interact with, are

they pragmatic right nor about bidere they, like, no, we like our camilla harris or we -- kamala harris or we want to see a more diverse debate? >> obviously senator harris is very popular in california. vice president biden will make a seous play there. and before i was in california and d.c., i was the governor of arizona. and democratic politics play a n t differently there than the coast. so i'm not surprised that vice president biden has come out of iee gates so strongly. because i do bel that within the democratic party there is a core -- a core of what i think a of as pragc progressives who want the country to be working in a more united fashion, than a very conscious and supportive of civil rights, of human rights wo ann's rights. but are also kind of skeptical of some of the ideas coming from the far left. >> heidi, now we're sitting here and if you're not biden or

bernie, what do do you? >> the conventional wisdom is that you attack biden. that doesn't seem to be working. maybe what needs to be happening is win that send-tier field, needs to win a bit. possibly you're seeing the other candidates peel off support from bernie. what's happening to bernie is that his base of support from 16 20hich, by the way, was never really as massive as people thought it was because we were talking about caucus states here. we were no the talking about the democratic primary vote. but that is now spread out. and that is why it's hard for any single one of the candates to emerge as a viable threat to joe biden. if you watch his campaign speeci launch, he's r a general election strategy here. he was only focused on trump. he made a specic pledge that i am not going to go after any of the democrats. he was trying to will about

to balance that by saying, look, i'm not going to allow anyone to but i think that people are tired of the name calling. they're tired of the divisiveness. i'm ready for a re-knuckle fight. but i'm not going to stoop to that level. i'm not going to alienate some of the more pragmatic republican moderates as well.nt i wa government that works again. i think that is a general election strategy. >> what's interesting is biden's announcent video and this speech, this is not new.ic it is clhe.he work tog unity, america is an idea. trump very rarely talks in those terms, and two, a lot of the other democratic candidates were consume with making more fundamental critique of america. but this is a big caveat i still have. whenever have we elected the elder statesman promising a restoration?re i thinksh and new is still the threat to hi necessarily the left. >> and gene, the only thing i say in this, i worry we're trapped in the past. we know how things work before.

we ner had donald trump as president. have no idea how this impacts him. >> you always fight the last election, right? not the one that is coming up. and so, no, we have no idea how, you know, how really to run ru against donald. you know, what is going to work or not work againshim? we don't know. we have some idea of how the president will campaign. but we -- this is -- we're in unchartered territory. >> does it matter if sanders can carry arizona? should democratic voters be thinking about that as much as they think about >> absolutely.ll? i think the democratic party think of the whole country. but there are states in the rocky mountain west and arizona and new mexico and colorado is turning safely blue. but even in nevada, you know, there are a lot of electoral college votes in those states.ar and trump won ona by 3,

3 1/2 points.at th a very doable contest in 2020. >> can bernie sanders carry it? >> that's a more difficult question. it? >> that's aifore dcult question. i think arizona democrats tend to the more conservative side if we're using that kind of spectrum. >> all right. we'll pause it here. when we come back, iran, the abortion abate, a republican who says trump has engaged inbl impeacha conduct. we'll talk to senator tom cotton from arkansas next. if these industrial plants had technolore that captud carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and expertagree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a lite more... like plants. ♪

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welcome back.hi republicans t week found themselves divided on a couple important issues. first there was a clear division in the administration over how aggressively to respond to intelligence showing a growing military aggressiveness by iran. and second, republicans in waington seemed to be deeply reluctant to openly embrace the restrictive anti-abortion measures passed by a number of states particularly in alabama. senate republican tom cotton joins me now. the author of a n book, my favorite place to go here in washington, a sacred duty, a behind the scenes look at arlington national cemetery. senator cotton, welcome back to

"meet the press." >> thanks for having me and your interest in sacred duty. >> let we starth the abortion debate. you took your constitutional law, you went to harvardlaw. the question really is, is when do you believe a fetus has constitutional rights? >> chuck, like a lot of folks here in arkansas, i'm pro-life and i think a basic responsibility of government in a civilized society is to protect innocent life. i know that's a passionate question on both sides. one of the problems of having unelected judges in washington make that decision for us as a nation, you can't have spaceor democratic debate where you can reach consensus and find some common ground. i think that's unfortunate, buta i think t what i'm most proud of here in arkansas is we have recognized the frontiers of medical science are being pushed back. so doctors are saving the lives of babies born in nicus in the

state at 220 or 20 or earlier times. i think that's a common ground we can look for right now at a time when elected judges are still setting the basic rules on this very passionate issue. >> you yourself mt have a opinion on this. when does a fetus have constitutional rights in your mind? >> chuck, what i want to try to find in this debate is area where we can agree on what we should do in a civilized society. if a baby can survivesi out of its mother's womb in a nicu as azing doctors areble to do at 22, 20 weeks, we should protect that life. i know there's a lot of divive issues, divisive debates. earlier this year in the united states senate we proposed legislation that merely would have said if aab b is born during attempted abortion, that baby has theiv right to and right to medical care just like any other person does. every democrat running for senate voted ghens that law and one of most extreme votes i've seen cast in my four years in the u.s. senate.

>> you had at one time sponsored abill, though, tha wanted to declare that life began at conception. thyou did that in house. but you do not support a similar bill that senator rand paul introduced. why the change? >> chuck, i haven't reviewed senator paul's bill. iersonally believe life does begin at conception. that's the standard most republicans who have held the presidencynodern times as well. there are tragic cases like rape or incest or when a mother's life is in danger we ought to make not account for. that was a position ronald reagan had as well. i personally believe life begins at conception. as long as we have judges making basic rules for, abortione should protect the most innocent lives that can survive. >> is it hard to make -- if you beineve that life beg at conception, then how do you justify an exception for rape and incest?

>> chuck, because we live in a democraticsociety, i recognize not everybody shares my views or the vast majority of arkansans. don't have the ability to have those democratic debates without playing within the guardrails unelected judges have put up in this country. states are going to make decisions. new york state earlier this year adopted an extreme abortion law that would allow abortion almost up to the point of delivery. some politicians in virginia earlier this year like the disgraced governor proposed potentially euthanizing children born during attempted abortion. i think those are extremely -- those are extreme positions. what we ought to have in this country is the ability to debate these in a forthright democtic way and reach some kind of consensus on them. >> should this be a political decision or medical decision? you brought up the science and talked the arkansas bill is

trying to matchhe science. should this be -- should you guys be getting a panel of dical doctors to decide, okay, this is when a fetus is viable, therefore -- should this be decided by medical professionals and not by, frankly i don't think you or i went to medical school. >> chuck,ncedical scie of course, informs these decisions, but ultimately these are moral i quess. but medical science is advancing. 10 or 15 years ago, a child that was born at 22 or0 weeks might not have been able to survive. as the progress of medical science advances, though, informs our debate. now, it's true from the other perspective as well. si have some horrific practices that are now pose by medical science such as screening for abortion, people who may want to select for a male child instead ofemale child or who look for various kinds of genetic defects or indicatorsnd they want to abort a child that may not even have those illnesses or diseases when they're born.

i think those are barbaric practices that any civilized nation should not permit. >> do you want roeet comply overturned or do you want it done in such a way where there is still a basic protection? i mean, you talked about aat democr process. it is nearly 2 to 1 in the exit poll in 2018 of folks favoring eping roe as is. >> chuck, thnically it's planned parenthood v. casey that governs laws. i think those disions were wrongly decided as a constitutional matter. these are decisions that the american people ought to make through their elected representatives. again, people are going to make different decisions. those decisions will have mor democratic legitimacy than centers like planned parenthood if they are available f democratic debate. if people are available through elected representatives can maks decisionnformed by all the relevant facts. >> let me move to iran. i want to play something senat

angus king said about the intelligence that he has seen regarding iran. he said thi earlier this week. i want to get you to respond to it. >> i don't think there's faulty intel here necessarily. i think the intel may be unanswered t the question again is are they reacting to our assertions of action in the middle east or are we reacting to them? that's an unanswered question for me. >> do you concede that the intelligence may be that folks are interpreting it may be the wayhey want to interpret it? >> chuck, i've read the intelligence, not just over the lasthe two weekends, but t last 4 1/2 years. the intensity and the frequency of this intelligence reporting is significantly heightened over the lastwo to three weeks. i don't have any doubts that iran started taking prooncative actiwo to three weeks ago. the united states, on the recommendation of our military, maderudent decisions like deploying new aircraft carriers, b-52 bombers and defense systems.

we did those things to deter military action by iran. >> do you think the president should -- he witts to sown with either the ayatollah or egotiate this. what do you think? >> at this point, chuck, we're focused on trying to deterta mili action against the united states personnel and our allies in the region. that's not very fruitful conditions for sitting down with any foreign leader. iran is an outlaw regime that for 40 years h been waging low-grade war against the united states. war turned hot in the0 198s. in iraq one of the deadliest bombs was smuggled in from iran. they had the blood of over00 dead americans on their hands. some of those americans as i write about in sacred duty would be buried in arlington national cemetery. but right now we're at the state of heightened attention because of iranian aggression. >> whyo you think an iran war would be as easy as you seem to describe?, one strikeast strike.

there was a lot of that talk about iraq. obviously that turned out to be not so easy. >> well, chuck, there's a whole rangef military options that our department of defense provides to the president. those range from the kind of military strikes we've taken twice against syria under president trump to iraq. no one to my knowledge is oposing with iraq, 150,000 troops mass to invade a country and overthrow itsovernment and try to overthrow 80 million iranians. we want to live in a country -- >> you're not advocating regime change? you're not advocating regime kma? >> we'd like to see the regime change its behavior. my point about the first trike and thet strike is the united states is not going to take the first strike here. but if iran attacks the united states or our allies in the first strike, then it will be up to america in a time ane man of our choosing to take the lket stri because our military will devastate theirs. >> before i let you go, sacred duty, a soldier's tour of

arlington national cemetery. tell me once place you should tell washingtonians if they've not been to one part of arlington national cemetery they might not have seen that they should see. >> well, chuck, every headstone in andrighetto ton tells a story. as i write about in sacred duty, the old guard of arlington provides the honor to our fallen heroes. it was an honor for me to serve there. this book is their ystory, not m story. if you want to see a living testament to the heroism to our soldie, sailors, coast guards men, go to section 60. it's where young men and women have been killed in the war on terror has been buried. it's g so many visitors, so many family members, so many friends, so many mementos, even though i know it's called the sad est acre in america, i prefer to refer to as it the noble est acre in america because it represents the best of us who fought for our safety.

>> i find walking at arlington national cemetery inspirational. thank youin for com on the show. much appreciate it. >> thanks, chuck. thanks for the interest in sacred duty. >> when we come back, why some votersy hurt b the trade war wi china will vote for trump, but there is a reason why the president is backing off some other tariffs. that's next. this is decision tech. 's screening technology that helps you find a stock based on what's ending or an investing goal.

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the war escalated this week whe when he increased goods and tariffs imported from china. he responded with tariffs of his own. d those chinese tariffs hit states politically that could be impactedn 2020. 2020. on the top ten states that will agricu tariffs, eight of them voted for president trump . which on the surface would be bad news for the president in 2020. and while he could lose supporta in ps like indiana or kansas these states are not likely to switch from red to blue. in fact, because thesesu voters or the president, they may

be more willing to take pain if it means pushing back against chin keep eye on the senate races, especi in places like iowa and texas which could also take a hit from these tariffs. now not all red states are created equal whic differ story when it comes to autoff tari this week the pres delayed hikes on auto tariffs by six months why? well, just look at whereof many these autoworkers live. it's states like wisconsin, michig and pennsylvania pres trump won each of these formerly democratic states by tiny margins. very little room for error. lose a few voters who don't like the president's trade policy and presid trump will likely lose those states and the election ov al look, president trump seems genuin do believe that trade wars a winnable and that tariff an a weapo and an answer but so far he's been careful to ma sure those tariffs don't fall where they could hurt him the most in the electoral colleg

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as we democrats don't like when the debate is about late term abortions and republ don't like when it and debate here is republican reaction to w take listen. >> it goes furthethan i believ yes. >> there is no exception for rape or incest. it's an extreme law. it will b. you know? and so forth. >> yes. senato ricrd shelby there from alabama. when h was a democrat, he actual supported and enacted

the se abortion. now he is pro-life as a publ in alabama. where is this headed? >> i think that you see so many republ responding this way. it was not just shelby. it was mccarthy and mcdonald and the president.st they underd this could fundam change the balance of passions in the culture wars in this country. chuck, i covered the won's marchnpr i also covered moderate republ women who believed that trump would never be a threat to abortion rights. while these laws that are passin are not just passing in one state, they're passing in multip states with no except for rape and incest. it is not just alabama. for nk this is a potential democr to reach out to these modera who by the way, a number of them actually did vote for democrats in the 2018 midter elections. but for moderate women, this is going be an issue for sure especi if the laws keep pushin the envelope even ife they d m to the supremcourt. so man of them are so similar.

>> rich, democrats are going to in the tv ads. >> i think any lon moveme forocial and moral reform has to strike a balance betwee purity and prague m i think the heartbeat laws perfor educative function and just driving home how early a fetal heartbeat is detectible. the pro-life movement since the supreme court has basically shut down democratic delibe on this issue for be time g has to be about public persuasion. i thin help. alabam doesn't. >> where are you on this? >> you know, i think, rich, i agree with you. i think the alabama bill is obviou extreme. it was designed to get to the suprem and get there rapidl so if it ultimately gets to that court the interaction betwee the court's calendar and

electi calendar is going to be very interesting. and i also agree with you. i think this is an issue that for the pro-choice side has never had the kind of urgency as it has passion as iton has the anti-cside. but this could flip foat. anthe life of me, i do not unders why you wouldn't even have a xrepexc for rape or incest >> they didn't fire up the left. it is one of these things that the right is sose la focus on in the grassroots in particular that it hasn't -- is the idea of roe on the ballot, does it -- >> i think the alabama law now is such a political misfire becaus number one, i'm not at

all convinced the supreme court could even take up this case. i think it's going to be struck down in the district crt level that the same result at the appeal court level. not sure th would even gnt cert on this extrem and this gives something, focal point for abortion right suppor to vote on. it's a iconic sort of thing. no exceptions, n nothing. it was interesting hearing senato cotton say unelected judges shouldn't b making these decisi infact, what is the altern there is no consensus on aborti in this country. t i don't thinkre is going to be. there' no morally consistent comproposition zbhch. >> i get the sense that democr candidates don't want aborti to be front and center but it's going to be. i don't it or plan for it to e, watch what happened within the past 48

hours. they'r denouncing this, especi for the w en candid that haven't had as strong a spotlight on them in this cycle. i think this is an opportunity for themto distinguish themse a little bit and, chuck, i think there is a broade framing here opportunity for dem ratsout what is pro-li what is pro momma? what is pro baby? the same states passing the nstrict abortioaws also have some of the country's highest infant and maternal mortality rates. >> all right. i have to leave it there.go before i want to take note of our friends at date line are launching 13 alibis, a series about producer dan's two year investigation convic murderer serving 20 years in a prison for a crime he said he didn't commit. you can get it where you get your podcast. that's all we have for today. thank for watching. we'll be back next week. becaus if it's sunday, it' "meet

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