this sunday, the trump pelosi feud. after speaker nancy pelosi takes onde presint trump -- >> we believe the president of the united states is engaged in a coverup. >> the president walks out of a meeting with democratic leaders. >> i walk into look at people that had just said that i was doing a coverup. i don't do coverups. >> then promises no legislating as long as democrats are investigating. and turns on pelosi. >> crazy nancy. she's not the same person. ce's lost it. >> what are thances of getting anything done now? plus, the democrats' impeachment debatebe while a numsay the time is

now -- >> i believe we have no other choice. >> speaker pelosi says, investations must come first. >> it may take us to a place that is unavoidable in terms of impeachment or not. but we're not at that place yet. >> my guests this morning, sarah sanders and two democrats on opposite sides of the impeachment ,debate akeemje reys and rasheeda talib. >> i declassified everythg, everything they want. >> the growing p concern over lit si politicizing. joining me are doris kerns go goodwin, pat mccrory and david maraniss. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press."

>> this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. we hope you are enjoying your weekend. day democrats are facing a dilemma. growing activists base is ng aski, what are we waiting for? democratic leaders warn impeachment could be a fool'ser errand. in 002, many chose to authorize an act they didn't believe in because the leaders thought it was good politics in the fall of an election year with a democratic senate that was in control by the democrats but sitting on the edge. it wasn't until it wasn't when the war went badly and democratic voters turned sour on those iraq war supporters. today's democrats face a similar situation. do they ramp up impeachment.um president tr wants that

remembering 73% for clinton. do they fight him trading insult for insult? hillary clinton called hispp suters a basket of deplorables. how did that work out? the president won't tinduct the naon's businesses. democrats won the house by promising to fihealth care and what happened to that? the path ahead is not at all clear for democrats. impeaching, fighting or ignoring, all have their political down sides. tt's a party divided with a base growing impatien for impeachment and a more cautious leadership saying, not yet. >> the only way we will beat him is to impet h him. how abthat? >> president trump can't stop talking about impeachment. >> whether they car the big i wo word out, i can't imagine that. the i word. the i word. can you? imagi

i don't speak to russians about campaigns. >> nancy pielosi told colleague she thinks mr. trump wants to be impeached, even as he denies it. >> i think what really got to him was th court cases and the fact that a house democratic caucus is not on a path to ac impeent. that's where he wants us to be. >> pelosi under pressure from a vocal minority of her own members to begin impeachment hearings now is trying to focus on the president's conduct instead. >> this president is obstructin justice anhe is engaged in a coverup. and that could be an impeachment offense. >> she's trying to placate moree progressiv members who say it's pastime to follow through with impeachment. >> this is no longer about politics. this is about upholding the rule of law. >> i believe we have no other choice. >> imp chment is ary divisive place to go in our country. unless we can get the facts to the american people through an

investigation, it may ta us to a place that is unavoidable in not.s of impeachment or but we're not at that place. >> in recent polling, a majority of americans oppose impeachment hearings. >> if we were to call -- to hold aninquiry, how would theyr? >> the president is raising questions about the fbi and ci a's role in the russia probe, using treason and ordering bill barr to declassify intelligence that led to the investigation. >> who specifically are you treason? of >> i think a number of people. look at comey. if you look at mccabe. if you look at probably people higher than that. >> on wednesday, the president walked out of an infrastructure meeting with democrats saying there will be no legislating as long as the democrats are investigating. for the president and for eause r pelosi, a clash may be

politically convenient. trump is trying to ensure democrats share blame for government dysfunction. re is there anything you willing to work on now with democrats? >> no, no. they have to go down their track. let them get rid of the nonsense first. >> pielosi focuses on the thing uniting them. >> i wisamthe fy or administration or staff would have an intervention for the good of the country. >> joining me is the chair of the house democratic caucus, congressman jeffreys. >> good morning. >> i want to start with what republican congressman justin amasha l out for his conclusions in that tweet storm last week. he said president trump engaged in impeachable conduct and he believed bill barr deliberately misrepresented the mueller report. do you agree with congressman amash's two conclusions? >> i certainly think there's

reason to blieve thathere was obstruction of justice. the mueller report laid out ten instances we need to look into separately as part of our investigation as to what may have taken place. it appears to be the case thate thso-called attorney jgeneral intentionally misrepresents the conclusions of the mueller report as part of an effort to fool the american people. we won't let that stand either. >> if that's the case, then why aren't you ready to start impeachment hearings? you are referring to an attorney general as a so-called. he is theey confirmed attorn general. i think he had a democrat or two vote for him if i'm not mistaken. if this is the case, then whyou aren't starting impeachment now? >> democrats can sing and dance at the same time just like beyonce. we have to keep our focus primarily on our for the people agenda, which we have been working on, lowering health care costs, strengthen the affordable care act,rotecting people with pre-existing conditions, driving down the high cost of

prescription drugs. these are areas where we passed legislation this month. we recognize in the new majority that the house is a separate and co-equal branch of government. we don't work for donald trump. we work for the american people. we have ao ctitutional responsibility to serve as a check and balance on a potentially out of control executive branch. we will notreoverh. we will not overve. investigate. we will proceed methodically yet aggressively to geo te truth. >> is it possible you are making political calculation about impeachment? and then that -- i opened my mologue about the iraq war debate. many were convicted to make a decision in the fall of '02 that they would regret. what seemed like good politics in the moment, in this case not impeaching seems like theight politics of the moment, how do

you know that and how do you know that isn't bad politics five years from now? >> the only way to proceed is make sure politics don't dictate a decision to impeach or a decision not to impeach. we need to follow the facts. we need to apply the law. we neeto make sure the constitution is the guiding principal in terms of the way forward. the zhjudiciary committee indicated through our chairman jerry nadler that we will conduct hearings on obstruction of justice, we will conduct hearings on abuse of power, we will con dukts heduct hearings e f corruption that appears to exist at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. we are in fact gathering mode. wetiill cone to work on issues of importance to the american people. that's what we promised that we would work on should wee win th majority. now that we're in the majority, we have to work to make life better for everyday americans.ha that's wwe're going to t ntinue to do. >> you talked aboue

investigations, abuse of power, his financial records. do you understand why maybe the country just looks li democrats are throwing subpoenas up against the wall to see what sticks? why is there not a focus on the mueller report? >> you have a variety of ttees of com jurisdiction who have important work to do. with respect to the mueller report, we have indicated that we want toth see full and complete un-redacted mueller report. we can't trust the attorney general's redactions to be presumptively legitimate. we want to see the underlying documentation. of course, we would like to hear from bob mueller who nee to tell his story to the american people. besides that, we do have important things to work on, like infraructure. the president didn't just walk out on a meeting with nancy pelosi andre infrastructu he walked out on the american people. donald trump is functionally a studio gangster. he pretends to be a tough guy. but he really is just playing that role on tv.

hopefully, he will have gotten his tempe tantrum out of the system. he can come back from japan. we have crumbling bridges, roads, tunnels, airports, mass transportation. we need to get to work to fix it. we have a plan. we would like do it in a bipartisan way. >> is there a point where impeachment becomes -- it becomes unfeasible because of the political lendar? we are at the very beginning of our new majority, as you know. this is the start ofclhe k. we just crossed into the 100 day point of the house democratic majority last month. so ihk we have to proceed methodically. we have to gather the information. then at a certain point, we have to me a determination how best to present that to the american people. >> is there a timetable? is there a realistictimetable? is it the summer? do you have to -- if by labor day you are still equivocat ag, then you probably not impeaching? >> i think that's a timetable that will be guided by the

facts. i don't think it will be guided by any political calendar. the presidential candidates are out on the campaign trail. they should make their case to the american peo we want to promote prosperity in every single zip code. hopefully, they will continue to do that. we have to do our work in the majority to govern, to pass bills, to send them over to the senates we have been doing. to try and get legislation to the president's desk to be signed into law. >> is there a point here in all of this where you are just arguing over is a msemantics? nadler said, what you are doing now, if you called it an impeachment hearing, it would be the sa? thing what should we take about that? you have opened an impeachment called that? >> there are troubling facts out the mueller repo we have to conduct our own

investigation separately because that's our responsibility. we cannot take whatas mueller done, because we don't have all of the underlying information. >> congressman, member of leadership, head of the democratic caucus, thanks for sharing your views. i appreciate it. >> thank you, chuck. joinin me now is democratic congresswoman rasheeda talib of michigan. welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you. >> you are one of the louderes voichen it comes to impeachment. i'm curious of your reaction to congressman jefferies. do you believe leadership is being methodical or do you tlieve that leadership is trclyinge to to ythe presidential election in order to take it off the tabl quietly? >> i can tell you as one of the newest members of congress, the traditional congressional wooversight process isn't ing. from subpoenas and trying to figure out what's going on with

children caged atted bore ethe from my colleags on the other side of the siaisle when we are asking for big pharma to tesosfy about high of insulin and they are telling them, you don't have to come before the committee, a lot of the corruption that you see through the oval office is seeping into the hallsesf congr i can tell from you day one, this president has misled congress, has ondermined his cabinet members and has lied to the american people. i have to tell you, this is a remarkable time intr our coun if you saw the largest class -- incoming class before our class was the watergate class. at that time, even though many people say that we didn't campaign on this, look at the fact that the majority -- the majority of states across this country saw a huge historic turnout of people coming ouvoto for the first time. i feel like in many ways, that's a referendum to stand up to a bully, to a president that subverts the united states

constitution every single day. >> i want to play for you a quote from an interview earlier this week from an ohio democratic activist who is a bit ustrated with all of the subpoenas on capitol hill. take a listen. i want your reaction on the other side.>> hey don't give a rat's you know what about his taxes and they don't really tre. i'm no saying that congress walk at ot chew gum and the same time. but the volume on issues, kitchen table issues, needs to be louder. because i wa to win this election. i don't want to lose. >> you hear, look, i have no doubt -- congressman jefferies ran down, i know you have other legislation and you do other stuff other than talking about the president's personal conduct. his pot was, it's the volume of conversation. it's the loud voice. he believes, win the election in 2020 and stop worrying about his tax returns. what do you say about that? >> look, this is not about the

2020 election. it's about doing what's right now for our country. president ng to be a that we -- when we don't hold this president accountable to the united states constitution, just look at the fact that currently, over a number of abuses of power, but the public's trust is at stake. we't can sit back and think that we can just pass health care reform and all of these issues which are critically important, but at the same time you have an administration not providing information, not following through on subpoenas. it goes hand in hand. we need to stop separating the fact that we're trying to change people's lives for the etter, but we have an administration that continues to violate the united states constitution. did you know, chuck --as he h not complied with the united states constitution when he took the oath of office by divesting in his businesses? have an upgraded version of pay to play. when i'm at the -- on the ground in my district fighting against the t-mobile and sprint merger, t-mobile is spending $195,000 at the trumpn hotel i d.c.

an upgraded version of pay to play to get access to the most powerful corridor to power, the president's office. so for me to fight back against big pharma, for many of my colleagues to pass reforms t, t are needed can't do it when the president of the united states continues to lie to the american people, continues to not follow through on subpoenas and give us the information that we need. >> why do you think you can't convince a majority of house democrats that it's time to impeach him? >> i thinkt's moving towards that. it's going to demand it. it already is. this is a time in our country that we can't look -- think about what just happened. the first time historically did we exercise our warower and said no more arm deals, no more interaction in helping the yemeni crisis through our relationship with saudi arabia. he turned around and pretty much ignorethe congress' decision, a bipartisan decision. understand again it goes hand if

hand. i think the american peunle rstand that we can't do our job if the president thinks he is above the law. i gotta tell you from the wall to the children at the border to migration reform, we can't be able to do our job if we don't hold him accountable. >> justin amash became the first republican essentially to call or at least believe that it's time to have an inqui inquiry. you invited him to meet with you and sign your resolution on that. did you meet with him? have you spoken with him? >> i haven't. i have to tell you ied workith him in the michigan legislature to for a term. he believethe constitution is brilliant. he is about putting country first. him.ve known that about he is one of the few that supported subpoenas towards the

trump administration about at least understanding what's going on at the border with chdren separated from their family. he is one of the more courageous people that does believe in the institution and believes in the rule of law. i respect that very much and continue to uplift his courage and for him to, again, put country before politics. >> i will leave it there. thanks for coming on andharing yourviews. >> thank you. when we come back, the perils of trying to impeach president trump and the dangers in not trying. as we go to break, as we do every memorial day weekend, we want to remember the american service members who died in t line of duty since last memorial day. ♪

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welcome back. panelists here, pat mccrory, doris kerns goodwin and david maraniss. he is author of a new book. nice to see you. let's start with this sound with nancy pelosi we have o-ne over a twnth period where she's going from defiantly to areopmo to it. >> they wanted me to impeach president bush. i didn't believe in it i then. n't believe in it now. it divides the country.

it's demonstrating on a daily basis his obstruction. this president is obstructing justice and he is engaged in a coverup. and that could be an impeachment offense. >> is she getting closer to impeachment or trying to keep others happy? >> if you speak to the pill to pelosi camp, she's saying we need to be in fact finding. they are in the middle of gathering information. the freshman class has more power. if you listened to her, why can't you convince the majority to go wi you, she said -- she sound ko sounded confident when she said we're moving that direction. we're hearing her language changed. i talked to someone at the white house who said, when the president heard nancy pelosi talk about a coverup, he started thinking about president nixon

and the idea what gave -- what took down nixon was the coverup. that sherce told me, s knows what she's doing. i think most people, including people in th white hous see that not just as a ship of rhetoric but her moving cler impeachment. >>david, you forced yourself to get out of washington. you go back to the lovely country of wisconsin. what do they say? what is the conversation there when it comes to trump and impeachment? >> i think it's nott hat differenom washington honestly. i think that there are a lot of activists who very much are pushingn that direction. the majority of people are not thinking about it. we define washington as just the political class but there' lot more to it here than that. i think that what's happening is at nancy pelosi -- there's a fine line between not acting out of fear and acting out of political smarts.

whenever you act just out of fear or not act out o fear, then it's a mistake. but she's trying to be mrit bein politically smart. >> does the president want to be impeached? that's been a question. does he want it or is he just creating the wedge? >> it's helpful if this continuek i don't thin's good for the country. >> you think it's good for the republicans. >> i don't think it's good for the country. it's not good for the presidency. speaker pelosi can no longer be called the adult in the room. she's pressured like her predecessor was in the republican party, speaker ryan, by a caucus that has gerrymandered districts. their fear isrom the left and futureot primaries in a general election. the same die namdynamics occur. right here in washington, d.c., she's trying to appease them,

trying to herd them into a coalition. today, look at the names called. studio gangster, dictator, misled congress, pay to play, obstruction of justice, at so-called torney general. this is not good for our country. >> i want to read something michelle goldberg wrote. were trump to be re-elected after such a, reckoni basically surviving a trial after impeachment, he might be further unleashed. it would leave demedrats humiliy their excessive caution. >> i think that the real challenge right now for the democrats, whether they do investigations or whether they move toward an inqui inquiry, they have to present a story to the american people that they understand what behavior is and how it reflects upon the constitution. one of the things lincoln said is that with public sentiment, nothing can fail. without it, nothing can succeed.

what we don't have yet -- we have a scatter shot, what you were talking about, of things against mr. trump. nl unless we understand the origins, not just that he is asking for, what is mueller going to say, why w people indicted, why were people so sensitive about russia, where is begin, middle and end? people understand a story. they are not going to understand scatter shotif ou can create public sentiment, you move the country along. >> who should do that? who is in charge of leading that conversation? >> not just the congress. it's the candidates on the campaign -- >> you think they should talk about it? >> it's not just a question of i'm for or against they have to argue. we need mueller there. we need the story to be told from mueller, not from until the american people understand -- this is what fdr did so great. he explained complicated issues so you understood them. it's up to the political class right now if they're going to go forward with impeachment or if they're not, to be able to

understand what pps haed, where is the beginning, the middle and end of the story? >> it's easier for one person to tell the story. >> the internet -- i agree. that's what leadership is. that's the most important part of leadership. wherever it cop comes from. >> i don't disagree with you on mueller, needing to speak. i also say,e almost need a church commission as many republicans think on rlly reviewing what are the guidelines now for investigat n investigations? i have been a governor whose administration has bedn investigatefore. it literally makes you l. temperamenta it brings down the staff. it dilutes work you can do on the side. you are nervous -- if you feel like everything you have done is right and not wrong. we have to make sure that we review what guidelines are used, especially if we investigate candidates in the future. >> doris is tarring about a ive. why you see jeffries is they are

furious because barr set a narrative for the president. the president is happy with bare and the peop talked to on the trump campaign and the white house feel as though they have a narrative. democrats are mad about the elltion. they w harass me. now they want to impeach me. the republicans have lined up their narrative. democrats as you see them now fighting over this issue of impeachment, they have decide whether they have ao t narrativs we. >> it goes back to the person best to make the case is speaker pelosi. >> she's beginning to. she's in charge right now. she needs to make the narrative no one has mad on the democratic side. you are right, the attorney generallhas made the narrative. they have won the messaging. >> she may simply by buying time in order tosay it's -- wait for 2020. we will see.

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tell yurr doctor to lower yodl and reduce your risk with repatha®. pay no more than $5 per month with theepatha® copay card. welcome back. this week, president trump made good on his promise to investigate his investigators. mr. trump gave attorney general withiam barr the auority to unilaterally declassify documents from the cia and other intelligence agenes. e president and barr have said the trump campaign was spied on. in the latest move, it raises concerns in the intel community about politicizing intelligence. joining me now from tokyo where president trump is on a state visit is white house press secretary sarah sanders.

welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you. it's great to be with you. >> before i begin with some of the domestic political back and forth, i want to start with something that's on the minds i think of a lotneof japa and that's the ballistic missile test of the north koreans. does the president agree with the prime mininer of japand his national security adviser that north korea has violated a u.lu resoon with these tests? >> look, the president's focus in all of this process ison continuing the very good relationship that he has with im chairman k and he feels good that the chairman will stay firm with the commitment that he made to the president and move towards denuclearization. that's our focus. that's going to continue to be our focus. some of the activity that's taken place as you can see from the president's twitter isn't something that's bothering the n pres he still feels good about the lationship that he has and about chairman kim's commitment

that he made to the president. >> the president has no qualms about not enforcing a u.n. resolution? if you don't enforce i what's the point of it? >> once again, the president's focus in this process is on continuing to mov towar total denuclearization of the peninsula. we know that the activities at no point that took place over the last several wks have been a threat to the united states or our allies. we're going to continue pushing forward to the ultimate goal and that's denucleization of the peninsula. the president still feels comfortable and confident in the relationship that he has with chairman kim and that he is going to stay true to the commitment that he made to the president. >> you referred to his twitter feed. i want to put it p. he did downplay it. north korea fired off small weaps which disturbed some of my people and others, but not me. i have confidence that chairman kim will keep his promise to me. smiled when he called swamp

man joe biden a low iq individual and worse, perhaps that's sending me a signal. can you explain why americans should note concerned the president of the united states is essentially siding with a murderous authoritarian dictator over a former vice-president of the united states? >> the president's not siding with that. i think they agree in their assessment of former vice-president joe biden. the president's focus in this process is t relationship he has and making sure we continue on the path towards denuclearizationhe that's what ants to see and that's what the people in this region want to see and arel hopehe president is right and that that relationship will be what helps move us further down that path. es>> the prent of the united states takes the north korean dictator's word about joe biden? what happened to speaking with one voice on american foreign

policy? is the president not setting up trying to have world leaders sort of pick which political party they should side with? i don't understand what message the president is sending here. >> the president doesn't need somebody else to give him an ceaseme assessment of joe biden. he's given his own assessment. i'm sure you have covered . the president watched him and his administration with resident obama fail for eight years. he has come in in 2 1/2 and cleaned up a lot of the messes left behind. we shouldn't be in the position we're in to have to deal with north korea at the level we are if they had done their job. that we'rein seeing moment after moment in relationship after relationship that the administration did nothing. they failed with iran, with north korea, on trade. we finally have a president that's being tough with these countries. we have put tougher sanctions on north korea than the obama administration ever did. at the same time, the president wants to develop that

relationship and he wants to actually get something snone. he d want to just talk in pretty rhetoric. he has been tough on china for the first time ever. s china isting down at the table and negotiating for better deals on trade. for the first time, we're seeing iran's economy crumbling. nobody has been tougher on russia than this psident. biden. if anybody an assessmene he failed to do the job in the number two slot. >> i'm trying to understand how your north korea policy is asu ess if he is launching missiles. i understand that you have had summits. nothing has come come of it. he is doing missile tests againa we're right where we began. >> it's not true to say nothing has come of it. there have been steps that have moved us tords for a strong -- significant period of time. there was no missile testing. we got hostages back home to the

united states. remains of american war heroes. i don't know how you can say that's nothing. to me, that's certainly something. i know it's something to the families of those individuals who those people came back home. this is a president who has made those things happen. he should never have been in this position in the first place. this is because of the failure of the administrations that came before him that never dealt with it to begin with. >> i'm going to ask you about the decision to give the attorney general this unilateral authority to declassify intelligr ce. the ordeys the attorney general should consult with relevant agency heads but not that he has to. why did the president not force the attorney general to consult with the head of the cia? here he is giving him authority not to doit, only saying, he should do it ut he doesn't have to. why? >>t the presidens total confidence in the attorney general and his ability -- >> but not the intelligence

community? >> tcertainly,t's why we expect that the attorney general will consult with them on matters that hee ns that guidance and advice from them. certainly, they work in lockstep on a number of things. i don'see this to be any different. the bottom line is there was corruption at the fbi and doj. we have seen more things that have come out of that. the president wants transparency. he's given the attorney general to put that transparency in place, make those decisions. we're not at all concerned that the attorney general is not going to do everything that is necessary to make sure we're protecting important intelligence that's vital to our national security. >> i'm trying to understand wham outce the president expects. he tweeted the following, my campaign for president was conclusively spied on. nothing like this has ever happened in american politics. a really bad situation. treason means long jail sentences.

this was treason. why did the president ask the attorney general to do anat investign if he has come to a conclusion, decided what the penalty should be? i think has determined what the jail sentences should be. isn't this the president already playing judge and jury and putting his thumb on the scale hereor whatever investigation he claims he wants mr. barr to do? >> that's rich coming from the media who relentlessly covered and accused the president for over two years of being part of this massive election in interferen interference. the idea that anybody says the president doesn't have the right and not only that americans deserve the right to find out where all of this started is absurd. for day after day, the media and democrats in congress called the president a traitor to his own country and said that he cheated to become president. the idea that isbsolutely outrageous that he had to endure that for two years.

now he wants to why and where it started. that's a big deaat th insane. >> i doesn't ask about him -- no, no, no. i did not ask -- sarah, i didn't ask whether he should ask those questions. he is not asking questions anymore. he has made a judgment. that's is different. will he accept a result of the r attorney gen saying, you know what, everything was done legally and on the up and up, will he accept that from bill barr? >> we already know that there was an outrageous amount of corruption that took place at the fbi. they leaked information. they lied. they were specifically working, trying to take down the president, trying to hurt the president. we will leave the final call up et the attorney general. he will g to the bottom of it. we think americans deserve the truth. the president asked for that. we should expect nothin less. >> the president is not going to accept exoneration if that's what bill barr finds?ng

>> i'm not goio get ahead of what the final conclusion is. we know that there was a highof level corruption that was taking place. we have seen that in the i investigation that's happened. >> not out yet. >> there's more we need to know. we will let the attorney general list jhis job. >> it sounds like the president has already determined the outcome.>> cluck, thathuck, that's the re granted the attorney general the authority to look at all the documents necessary is so we can get to the very bottom of what happened. once again, we already know abousome wrongdoing. in president is not wrong that. he wants to know everything that happen and how far and wide it went. we know there was corruption. >> does he expect criminal charges? does he expect -- he accused comey of treason. does he expect jim comey to be

arrested? >> again, we're going to let the attorney general make that determination as he gets to the conclusion of this investigation. >> the president -- >> we certainly expect the people that were responsible and were part of this out -- unprecedented obstruction and corruption at the fbi, those people should certainly be held responsible and be held accountable. the president expects that to take place. >> he expects an outcome he wants, not an toutcomehat the facts lead to? >> chuck, i think you are trying to muddy the waters too much. we already know -- >> i think -- >> there was wrongdoing. >> i think what's rich is who is muddying waters. >> i don't think it's crazy to want to ow how far and wide the corruption at the fbi was. >> sarah sanders, white house press secretary in ttokyo,hanks for coming on and sharing your

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we are back. data download time. it has been a month since joe biden officially entered the 2020 race. he has been at the top of the pack, climbing to an 18-point lead oer berni sanders. in one poll this week. in 2011, mitt romney held a similar lead. we have both party comesi icomi huge successes. in 2011, 90% of republican primary voters disapproved of president obama's job performance, much like the 88% of democratic voters wid dislike prest trump right now. at this moment, biden looks more like mitt romney in 2012 than like donald trump in 2016. that might be a similarity biden wants to actually kind of avoid. romn romney, being mr. electable on the right, wound up losing that

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without talking 2020. small pattern developing here. in the democratic primary polling, we have had a couple of polls, and there's one undeniable trend. bernie sandersg is gett squeezed from two sides. joe biden has got in, his numbers grew. bernie sanders got lower. elizabeth warren has been growing. what's interesting, the less you were paying attention, the more likely you were a sanders supporter. the point being, biden took sort supporters. warren is starting to get traction. bernie is a candidate all a sudden trying to figure out how to get traction again. >> this is the dilemma of 2020. sanders in 2016 was the flagship progressive candidate. if you liked warren, other people, you found your candidate in bernie sanders. now you have warren and other people talking about the same kind of legislation, sa policies. i was talking to someone from the warren campaign today. they wouldn't commen onpolls.

they made a point to say, she's been to 18 states plus puerto rico. she's someone who has held 81 town halls. that person was making the case, she's doing just as much as him. i was thinking about how senator warren has been setting herselft apart, apa from being the first can't to talk about impeaching the president, sheci ded not to go on fox and hold that town hall. i asked that campaign person, tell me more about that decision. nted me to the thread and said, she didn't mince words with fox news. they are a te-filled pr propaganda network. sanders says, i want to go after those voters. >> he was the firs to do a fox town hall. >> biden is trying to claim he is the most progressive candidate. that's going to be pushed ck on. this idea that sanders isn't tho t new kid anymore. that's interesting to say about bernie sanders. >> you can't be an insurgent twice. it's tough. there's part of this where you e

think, mhere's nothing he can do about it. hillary clinton is not on the ballot again. i say this to donald trump supporters who think, you know, hillary clinton is not o the ballot again. sanders without her as a galvanizing force, he didn't have as big of a following as we thought. >> it was inevitable as the other candidates, like you say, get on the ground and are -- it'sn the early states where those polls are more likely to show warren and harris. i think the real worry i ha that we do polls week after week, we have 19 more weeks of hing left. over a year and a half. sometimes i dream of going back to the old systemwhere -- if we had the parties choosing the candidates, it wouldn't be until the summer of 2020 we would begin to have conventions. labor day it would start. we would be living a life. these polls -- >> we get to be the gatekeepers. this is what everybodyhated. >> i know you can't go backwards. in 1912 when they introduced the first primary and it was a mess.

how can a weue like this? it's a blush to all of americans that we are seen arguing like this. go back to the old system which was rational. but the good thing is a lot of ideas are coming out. ndhowever many caates we have, we're coming out with good ideas. we can -- they have task forces. at least it's a respite from the obsession with the presidency. >> pat, i know the trump campaign -- donald trump is a terrible poker player.a he it clear he fears biden. he never hides what he fears. >> he cannot hide. >> are you concernedden is not getting sucked into the liberal debate or the progressive debate that you would?t he >> what joe biden is doing is what a lot of congressional democrats did in red states ay asg the last election, little as possible about details of issues, which the other 30 candidates have already done. it's got them in trouble. harris, for example, got in trouble with insurance and

health care and getting rid of private insurance. biden is saying nothing at this point in time. he is talking macro. the question is, how much longer can he get away with that? a lot of congressional democrats got away with that in the last election. it will be interesting if biden can stall for that period of time. >> david, i keep pinning you into wisconsin. i think about the madison activists. i think about them because that to me -- can joe biden win them over? if you win over the madison activists on the, my number plank is beat trump, and the madison folks buy into that, that's trouble if you are elizabeth warren or bernie sanders. >> i don't think he can win them over in the primary. if he wins the nomination, he can win them over. particularly depending on who he picks as his vice-president. i think there's -- i would -- there's a practicality to it where pele are saying we want to beat trump. i think there's plenty of alternatives besides joe biden for that among those activists.

>> before we go, everything in e uk seems to preview american politics by six months. brexit, trump. doris, this is a western democracy larger thing here. put it in quick perspective. >> what's happening is that western n democracies have answered the needs of people, the prosperity of their countries has not been shared by a lot of people who feel out of the system. people in the country feel split up from people in the city. they are blamingpl them on peo immigrants become a scapegoat. it's a huge problem if a democracy doesn't share prosperity and allow people to have mobility to rise to the level of their discipline and le ta. it's being felt. they haven't worked. they have to work at that before we are going to see this everywhere. >> a great way to end that. thank you very much. that's all we have for today.u thank yor watching. i hope you enjoy the rest of your memorial day weekend. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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