y3a5vy y16fy good morning and welcome toi a spe edition of "news4 your sunday," a conversation with bishop jakes. >> i am pat lawson muse. what do youo when life crushes you, when there's an event or experience in your life that is so devastating that you feel like everything is falng apart? our guest today knows that experience well. he's the founder of the 30,000-member potter's house church in dallas, texas, and television program, "the potter's touch" watched weekly more than 3 million viewers, and he has produced films and been a

preacher and teacher and a speaker and lecturer and intrapreneur and number one "new york times" best-selling autho. welcome >> thank you. it's a real pleasure to be here with you, pat. >> i know you are here promoting your new book, "crushing." the book takes then reader o a journey, the day where you had the experience that your 13-year-old daughter was pregnant, and this was many years ago. tell us about that day.th >> was a tough day and a shocking day. there was no warning. there was nothing in her behavior that would suggest thaf we wouldnd ourselves in that situation. i am used to ministering to people in that situation and all of a sudden i find myself there. it's a lot easier, i can tell you, to minister to other people than when it's you, your emotions are shattered and her

mother was devastated and i was shocked and most ofwe all were concerned about our daughter much more than what people would have thought about being embarrassed. was not about my representation or anything, andne i was concer my child and if she was going to be okay, and that was a fficult thing for a protective person, which i am, and it proved to be that life's crushings bring you to a day where she would not be the mother and the person she is today had those early crushing moments not happened in her life. that was onehi of the tgs i wanted to open up and share in the book saying this is not just theology or a reflection, although it's a strong reflection of we as christians,

and it's very open about suffering. chr christi >> you said the experience took you back almost to spiritual first grade and you had to learn some of the fundamentals of faith? >> in the moment of questioning, our sensitivities go down. scientists teach us wen we incure emotional pain it's just as bad as physical paincnd you go into shock when things happen emotionally and shutdown, and it's okay to bepset and

emotional and faithful or fearful or whatever the process is that brings you torust that all things really do work together for good. that takes trust. >> months before that, you lost your mother. >> yes. >> she was o of your bedrocks. >> yes.as >> that w a crushing experience. >> it was a crushing experience and sooth of them together made it a crushing season in my life, and i lost my mothero t alzheimer's, a antagonizing type of death and we were incredibly close, more than mother and son, we were best friends and i knew she thing about her and knew everything about me, an iso it was a very sad time for me to go through that, but many, many people go through that, and on the heels of that then facing the situation with my daughter, it s a lot all at once.

>> and then another crushing moment when your son suffered a heart attack. >> yeah, i was in nigeria and i had to fly back from nige a get to his bedside and he had two back-to-back, and all of this was going on while i was building ministry and preaching around the world and doing television and writing books and all this kind of stuff, and all of this was happening in the backmoop. >> for of us, one crushing experience can level you, but when they go back-to-back it can feel like it's piling on, the sickness or loss of a loved one, a bad diagnosis from doctor and maybe you are battling ouepression, and how do y get life out of what you describe as the muddy places of life? >> so many times we look at ople and we see them excel and

we think th excel because they are motivated by what they are going to, and sometimes there's more motivation w ofre you are coming from, and there are certain things that happen in your life that give you the fuel that increases your bounce back and make you tenacious, and if you didn't pull thew arro back it wouldn't shoot forward and if you didn't crush the grapes you wouldn't have wine, and understanding so many times in our lives you have a choice in that moment to get bittege or better, and to either use it as fuel to prove to yourself and to your god and to your family we're stronger than this, or you can wallow in it. you makehat choice. it's a decision, it's not a feeling. >> i want to talk to you about some of the issues we are facing in the country, bishop, a recent

"washington post" poll believe 8 out of 10 people believe the country is totally or mainly divided. what do you think it will take to pull people back together again, or heal the nation? >> i don't think the nation will be healed by television or by ho the white e, frankly. i think the nation will be used by coffee shops and people talking and just ordina people coming together and saying, wait a minute, we are better than this, we will not allow a few people to define who we are as individuals. i am optimistic, despite of the corruptionhat seems to rise to the forefront of the headlines every day, there are still a lot of good people in this country and they are concerned about the country and where this country is going and they have to break their silence. those people that have issuedit wother people, we have to learn to talk to people who differ with us, until we learn

to have conversations outside our tribes and group, we will never learn how to resolve issues. >> we live in a time when people arein star at their cell phones but don't look at each other anymore, and weon't list to one another and are not talking to one another, and how do we get back to that kind of community, sense of community? >> we have to demand it of eacha other, when my kids are sitting around the table and everybody is on their cell phone, i say th is a cell phone-free zone. pulling people out so that we can not lose the gif of communications, and so we decent have misunderstanding, and sometimes when we are on social media our worst self appears and emerges, and we don't see them

faceo-face and we attack them because they don't seem so real when they are tweeting, and we don't have to hear their reb rebuttal or see the pain in their eyes and we don't realize we are not that different and so it's a willful blindness that perpetuates itself, and in order for us to heal, we have to open our eyes. the most prominent healing over all the diseases is blindness. metaphorically we have to understand the insight is very important, and when you talk to a personou connect with them beyond verbal language and social media with all of its wonders and blessings, i use it, too, but it has taken away the human and eye to eye contact. >> on the subject of race, incidents of hate and race-related violence are on the

horizon and it seems the scab that was barely hanging on has been ripped off. what is the answer? is there an answer? >> i think there's always going to be a degree of it. there always was and always will be beneath the veneer of political correctness, and it has come to the forefront as horrific and painful and as terrible as it is to me and whoever else is a victim of it or has been a victim of it, i still think it'st, importan it's an important discussion and partly because before when we said something was racist, they said you are wining or you are a race baby, and n the ugliness has come to the top where you can't deny, you have to acknowledge the authenticity of the facts, and that's good because now we can talk with tht legacy where before d

politeness not allow us to obtain it. >> do you think it's the start of the healing? >> it starts withes hon and it starts with anger and in an argument. we can't always have a congenial conversation. those who seek to always be congenial seek to live in denial, anddenies us the right to be human. we will have a conversation and it's going to be emotional and it is going tong chal our belief system and it's going to challenge the nice and neatwa we have packaged ourself, and in the process of doing that there's more to unite us than divide us. our thought is somee outsid force doesn't come to unit us, because i hope it doesn't take e tra like 9/11 to remind us we're all americans and i hope

it doesn't take some bomb destroying a city to come and galvanize us to know we're together and wake us up out of the sleep. >> i have to ask you about the college admissions scandal. many believe it highlights and magnifies the gap between those who have and those do not have enough. what do yohe think about t message it sends and what do you think it's the lesson it teaches children? >> the gap between the have and have nots is very wide and it continues to show us the gap is widening in our country and we are losing middle graclass and middle ground and middle thinking and losing a sense of equity andc justi it has been said when you consider things like affirmative action, we donth need anymore, and we will need it as long as power and money can sway

the tables of destiny. we will need it as long as privileged -- white privilege exists in our country. we have to force ourselves to be fair. it's not always instinctive to be fair for any people, and it's instinctive to win and consequently we have a behavior that is perpetuated itself in this country that is win at all costs. i'm concerned about that and i think we have to put policies in place tot protec justice and fairness and to make suha we give each person an equal opportunity, particularly in education, because if wealth controls who gets the education than only the wealthy will get educated and the poor will get poorer and the rich will get richer an tthat has beenhe story for sometime. >> what about the moral lesson it sends to young people? >> it's a huge moral lesson.

we're not doing a good job with moral lessons for young people, and it used to be you could allow your child to watch the news and worry about vulgarity, and now you can't go into the store without hearing it because it is allowed in all places, ann whe you talk about the college admissions scandal, but what it says to young people specifically that i as a parent thought i needed toag levere my we wealth and you were not good enough to get there o your own, and i do not want to send that message to my cld, and it's important that a child knows their parent believes in them and they don't have to put their hand on the scale for you to have this pportunity. >> polls show a growing number

of children, young people, millennials are choosing spirituality over religion, and they don't work towards or dream of the post world war ii era of life where your work fo a house, a job, a savings account. hat about those that feel they cannot count on the future? >> tat type of cynicism that you can't count on the future is why suicide rates are rising in this country, and i think most people who feel that way feel t, t way based on their pa but when you commit suicide or you become cynicalr youust live in the moment, you are killing your future. you don't want your past to allow you to become so cy ycal that want to kill your

future. thesi plity of tomorrow, the chance that things will get better, the optimism that another dayght bring about another opportunity is something that made this country great and we have to get back to that here. >> a lot of young people don't feel they have a future to look forward to, not the future their parents dreamed of? >> they don't. the world shhas changed. a lot of people are saddled with debt, and they were told if you get a good education you can get a job, and they came out with debt and it's becoming more and more difficult for them to get s runningart. i can understand the despair theyeel at this point but we have to correct these things and stop bickering about minor things and start working on

leaving the world better than we found it, and begin to train down in t tenches with people who have not had the benefit of being in the right room at the right time to over hear the right conversations to have a more positive outcome. >> what is the key to transforming -- turning something good out of whest thing that has happened to you, the worst decision you have made or the worst thing yu ever have done? >> the first thing we have to celebrate is the fact that we survived, and that by itself is something that i live to tell about it or live to regret it, or whatever the feeng , we may have to adjust the feeling but the realitywe is survived, so let's celebrate that. number two, what did i learn about myself that i would not havead learned i not gone through what i went through?

start using that to become the building blocks o moving yourself forward to a more positive destiny. pressure creates power whether you are generating electricity or turning something into life, andif you are squeezing the garden hose, the more pressure the further the shoots. behind all those that i met in my lif in their background there's some horrible atrocity that pushed them forward atd thift that is left behind is what every reader and thicker and every viewer needs to look for even in the most painful moment. one point you resisted your own callings to the ministry and you wrote at one ut nt you tried to talk god of it. how did that conversation go?

>> not well. i didn't think i had a great choice. i think god has a great sense of humor, and he picks some of the mostik unly people and puts them in a position and so you know it's him and not you,nd i ddn't know that then, but i thought whyn't you get one of those people better suited for this. beauty for ashes, and the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness and the resurrection for every crucifixion, and that's the store y storyout of the ashes ofdi arity, it's out of the disadvantage that greatness emerges. rich people often give their children everything except what made them rich, and great peopli

their children everything except what made them great, ant that's tng you were running from to run into whatever you ran into, and then you make it easy on your kids and you wonder why you don't get the end result, you give everything except for the crushing that produces the tenacity, an then we have to not shield our children that makes themselves relying. >> we talk about the transformation and how you had to talk to god about your calling. getting back toour daughter, bishop, she's grown into a very successful pastor, teacher, preacher, and she's blossomed into something maybe that you didn't expect orn' feared would happen. how did she feel about your writing this book and your

telling of the story? >> i never spoke about it until e did, and i felt it was her story to tell. the reason why i am talking about it now, iam talking about it from a parents' perspective, and we all go through the same thing but we go through it fromt a diffeoint of view. there are a lot of parents that are tempted to give up because they feel i am not a good parent or my son is in jail, and my daughter dropped out of school or whatever it is that makes you think that their outme is your fault. i wrote it from the parents' perspective to say that it's possible that you have not given your child enough time to come out of the whirlwind they are in now and to ve theaith and tenacity to never give up. sarah became who she is because her mother -- first of all, let

me put her mother up front and then say, and i, and she never gave up on her child. her mother is abamlutely an ing person. she in the thick of it, in the throws of it, in the most nauseating moments of it, her commitment to walking our daughter through that process and her instinct of how to go through the proce was impeccable. i think when you hear a father talk about it, you know, most of us, so many of us particularly an african-american community have never heard a father talk. have never heard a father's pehepective. eitwe didn't have one or the one we had was silent or they were working all the time or for whatever reason we don't often get to hear a male perspective. as both a parent and a father to me, that was devastating for

and she made it and she turned into an amazing person that i k didn't evenw was there, and before she went through what she went through by getting d have t, i never wo guessed that was there and i really believe some of the aroma of who she hasme beco was made in the suffering, h and she not suffered like that she would not be who she is today and that's good news and hope for parents and grandparents who lay in the bed n atht like we did wondering if it would be okay or not. >> what is next for >> i don't know. >> another movie or another book? >> i am doing things for lifetime we are working for, and

i am excited to get to get out of bed every morning and know the sky is the limit to what you can be. don't allow people to put you in a box and compartmentalize you, and ays for instance, he's just a preacher and you are just a journalist and put a period where god put a comma, d it's endless what people can be, and when you wake up thinking like that you discoverehings li that defy age. >> bishop, what is the message of the resurrection and how relevant is the resurrection today, even to believers? >> the resurrection, it's transparent about pain and about doubt, and you see christ stumble intothe garden, what i

love about the faith message is that it is -- it's openly transparenthat resurrection does not come without crucifixion, and success des not happen without suffering, i wrote eason "suffering," because as christ raised t cup, the grape has to be crushed to reach its mst powerful state and the one that held it had to be crushed to reach his most powerful state, an the people listening to us today, at some point in your life you will go through psychological, physical, stress, not something you have to put your finger on, but when the pressure is over, it leaves a gift behind and when the pain recedes and the room clears there's always a gift of purpose orr power o tenacity that makes

us stronger or wiser or better than we were before. you may he scars left, and you may have wounds left, but that doesn't mean you didn't t. resurr don't allow your scars to talk to you to put you in your grave. >> thank you, bishop. >> it has been a real pleasure. >> to watch any of our programs go to our website and click on community. thank you for watching. it's so . it's affordable no .tter what your budget i saved a lot of money at floor and decor. we came in under budget, way under budget. yeah. it's really the best pricing.

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