tv Meet the Press NBC June 16, 2019 10:30am-11:30am EDT
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this sunday, election interference. president trump says yes, he would accept information on an opponent from a foreign country. >> let me call the fbi. give me a break. >> he insists everyone does it. >> i think i would take it. >> then gets slammed by democrats. >> that's just dangerous, appalling, unethical, unpatriotic. you name it. >> he does not know right from wrong. >> by some republicans. >> i'm calling the fbi. i think most people would. frankly, i think the president would. >> beforeking off. >> of course, you give it to the fbi. >> how serious is president trump about protecting our election? the democrats debate stage is set, both of them. 20 candidates, two nights.
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a brewing generational divide. >> it would serve us well to have a new generation of leadership stepping forward at the highest level. >> pple have a right to question all of our ages. all i can say is, watch me. just watch me. >> my guest, yor pete buttigieg. the u.s. blames iran for attacks on tanrsnd considers deploying ships. i will talk to steve scalise and richardor engel r from the region. joining me are mark leibovich, daniellepletka, george will andc heleper, pentagon corresponde correspondent. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is
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"meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. happy father's day t all the dads out there. we're going to get to presidentc trump and elon interference and poll numbers in a moment. we will start with the tension beeen the united states and iran. the u.s. is blaming iran for attacks on two tankers. iran denies it's responsible. there are fearshandliners will use the incident to push for a military confrontation. richard engel is in turkey with the latest. first, is the u.s. allegation against iran that theydid it being taken seriously in the region and with western allies? >> reporter: i think it is being taken seriously. i sources have been speaking to re not doubting the american's accounting of events. they think that the iranians did it. they think they did it in such a way to show their displeasure, to show their anger that they have been boxed in by sanctions.
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they think that the iranians didn't want to attack u.s. interests in order not to provoke at least at this stage any kind of shooting war. but sources i'm speaking to are -- i'm not hearing other accounts of who was responsible. >> richard, there clearly is divides in iran on how aggressive to get. ere's divides in our own country. i know there's concernf an accident happening. first walk us through the iranian divide. >> reporter: so the issue is not so much an accident. we talk aboute'this like w on a slippery slope tard war. we have been put in this position. there have been a series of events that have put us right where we are right now. let's start with the iranian side. there are hardliners in iran who said for a long time that they should be taking a ronger action, a more confrontational approach vis-a-vis the united st es, particularlyter the
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united states started to ratchet up sanctions, put iran into a corner, back them into a positionhe wre they fear they have no other economic options.- they have be those voices, those hardline voices have been losing out to moderates. but as the sanctions get tighte andtighter, the hardliners now -- they think it's a good idea, apparently, to attack commercial shipping in ord to show their displeasure and to show their strength. you also have hardliners in the united states who put us in this tuation, who may have made the sanctions on iran so impossible that iran felt backed into a corner and it i reacting. it is very predictable. i have been watching this for a long time. i could have told you if you ratchet up the sanctions to a point they are unbearable on iran, that iran would react and the hadliners would getthe upper hand. i think a lot of people around president trump, bolton among them, know exactly that that's how iran would react. >> very quickly.
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i assume -- is the u.s. navy going to be useden as esstially ata escort for tankers pretty soon? >> reporter: we could get to that stage. president trump said in that phone call with fox and friends that the straits will remain open almost at any cost. u.s. military escort would be an escalati escalation. let's see if it has to come to that. >>hard engel in istanbul, turkey. as always, thanks very much. turning to politics. it has become something of a cliche from the moment donald trump came down that escalator four years ago today, heas changed the norms of our politics. whether as a candidate or as president or declaring there was fine people on both sides of the neonazi protestsre the a familiar pattern. stem one, stay or do something
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startling. step two, public and press react with shock, outrage, approval or all of the above. step three, say or do something else startling. step four, public and press forget about step one. wash, rinse, repeat. the latest example, trump saying would take incriminating information about an opponent from a foreign government. many heard that as, mr. trump saying, russia, if you are listening, come on in, the water is fine, if you can help again, i will take it. perhaps the most remarkable thing about the four-yr sickle of this cycle is how steady and mediocre the president's approval ratings have remained. 44% approve of the president's job performance. 53% disapprove. always hoeldzing between 43% and 46% consistently. all of which is to say, mr. trump's style is a weakness and
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strength. a weakness because the controversy that kept his approval rating from reaching 50%. a strength because with each new controversy it becomes easy tof et what last week's fuss was all about. >> they have information. i think i would take it. >> four yrs after coming down that escalator and announcing his candidacy, mr. trump is preparing to kick off his -election campaign on tuesday in battleground florida. this week, he made it clear, if a foreign government offers him help to win, he will take it. >> this is somedy that said, we have information on your oppone opponent. let me call the fbi. give me a break. li doesn't work that way. >> the fbi director says that's what should happen. >> the fbi director is wrong. >> his campaign calls those comments a directive. >> the president's directive as he said, case by casebasis, he would likely do both, listen to what they have to say but also report it to the fbi. >> after some republicans condemned the idea of accepting foreign help again in 2020 -- >> it would strike at the heart of our democracy. >> i think it's a
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i think it's a mistake of law. >> the chair of the federal ection commission pointed out that taking information of value from a foreign national is illegal. >> it's actually a matter of black letter law. it's pretty straightforward. >> on friday, the president tried to backtrack. >> of course, you ha to look at it, because if you don't look at it you are not going to kn's if it bad. of course, you give it to the fbi or report it to the attorney general. >> still, mitch mcconnell hocked a bill would require fbi disclosure of any foreign assistance. while democrats competing to take onon trump pounced his comments. >> i believe he is wrong. >> he was willing to break the law. it's illegal. >> what he said was openly treasonous. >> i>>s terrorism. t's like the guy hates america. >> mr. trump's opponents are struggling with how far to go. >> would you want the department of justice, that he is no longer a sitting president, to go forward with obstruction justice charges? >> i believe that they should, yes.
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there has to be accountability. >> by friday, harris was trying to backtrack. >> you would psecute donald trump. >> no. i saidrthat the depant of justice will need to go and >>llow the facts wherever they lead. head of their first debate, the 2020 democrats are trying to prove they are best equipped to take mr. trump on. >> a gigantic mistake if democrats, 20 or whatever number we have, go after each other. >> former posivice-president bis rivals are playing up this. >> if we are perceived as replicating a system that let people down economically and politically, we could lose again. >> the same people say, we have to have somebody new. we have to change the system. guess what. systems work pretty damn well. it's called constitution. >> joining me now is the mayor of south bend, indiana, pete buttigieg. welcome back to "meet the >> thaou.
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nkess." good to be with you. >> i want to start with sort of the news of the moment that we're all dealing with as a country, what's going on in the middle east. do you believe the administration has provided enough proof that iran wasse behind theanker attacks? >> i think what we have seen is compelling. there seems to be more information that we haven't had a chance to see. it's a little distressing to think that because this administration's credibility is so low in general, i think a lot of people are thinking twice in a moment when arica's words should be decisive, when the u.s. says this is something that has happen and this is the consensus of our administration, that should be something that goes without question. of course, that's just not the case in an administratis that en extremely unreliable in so ma ways. that being said, this is not inconsistent with iranian behavior that has been aggressive and ofte lignant in the region. the real question is, what can we do given the facts on the ground to ensure a measured reonse that will deescalate rather than inflame tensions in
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the region. >>hat is that measured response that a president buttigieg would do at this point? i know you want to go back into the nuclear agreement. it did nothing about th iran. >> we would consult and coordinate with allies. erhay ods lanete paintee reyo. our closest allies in the middle east, saudi arabia and el ira dient acthan t un stas nn >> well,r alli i es tconcerned first anth their ow. need d mmofoewist s ure that we have tensions atdeescg rather than escalate when it gmes wt'has white house is something disturbingl reminiscent of the accelerating drumbeat that got us into the war in iran. it has some of the same cast of characters.
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i'm mystified who john bolton is said to be behind a lot of the policy on iran. it's not only allies in the region but allies across the globe who have an interest in stopping any pathwayoward the middle east becoming more violent, more unstable than it already is. >> do c you takemfort at all that president trump appears care about this. >> the president has said that he does not want a conflict. of course, it's very difficult to take the president at his word any time he says tything. to extent that we believe him, the real question is, is a dynamic underway in the administration just as much as in the middle east that could get out from control of the presidend i'm concerneout that. it's one more reason why we need stable leadership in the united states and a stable inrnational community where our alliances are steady and our word is taken seriously. >> do you think it's -- would it be appropriate if they ordered -- if they had the u.s. military essentially in the gulf
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of oman as a police escort for the tankers? >> it could be appropriate for u.s. to use our sea power to make sure there is safety and freedom of passagein's tt vital the world economy. >> you are making a generational argument during the campaign, being the youngest contender in the race. the youngest top tier contender in this race. it's an obvious thing for you to do.me le ask this about joe biden that you have been ducking all week long. what can joe biden do to convince you he is future oriented? >> i think every one of us is running our own playbook. a candidate of any age could speak about the future. i think not every candidate is doing that. thet future can't jus be a bump sticker word or vague idea we throw out there. i want us to be forming policies today that are going to make sense in the 2050s that we're going to look back.
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>> you think somebody in their 70s can't have aio good v of what 2050 is going to look like in america? >> of course they can. i have the best one. my plan is to go out and compete with it. >> that's a fair point. t me ask you this about the president's comments having to do with accepting foreign interference. if somebody offered your campaign dirt either president trump or a democratic candidate, what would you do with that dirt? >> you wouldn't do anything with u at dirt. uld call the fbi. this isn't even -- >> would you look at it? >> no. you call the fbi. the moment that you look at it, you have implicated yourself. i don't think you would want to do that. some things are complicated in politics and ethics. this is not. i thiss not theoretical. a hostile foreign power successfully attacked our democracy in the st election. there's no indication that they are going to back off from
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trying do it in e n. ext election. it's shocking to hear the president say what he said. he specializes in shocking us so we can't talk about anything else. i hope that while we are forcefully responding to the outrageous suggestion that he would do something illegal in that situation, it's not making us less able to talk about our own agenda of making americans' lives better off of delivering better wages, better living stand arardsnd health care. he needs us talking about him so we're not talkinabout voters. when we talk about voters, we win. we will call out his wrongdoing and return to our message, gobecause that's what'sg to make for a better america all the way to the 2050s. >> you responded to a question about the idea ofos uting a former president trump, possibly having the justice department lookt the obstruction case. you are open to this idea that if that's what the justice department says, then they should pursuei how do you -- if you are elected president, one of the reasons you got elected is you would have couninced the coy it's
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time to change the channel. how do you change the channel and prosecute the former president at the same time? >> america can do many things at the same time. it not the president's job to prosecute a foreign president. changing the channel means focusing on howe can make people's lives better. if in parallel there are investigations going on into criminal behavior by people who were formerly at some of the highest levels in our government, so be that's how the justice system works. the most important principle re is the independence of the judiciary, the ind pin independ the doj notmething this president respects. he treated it like it ought to be his personal law firm. >> this won't be a litmus test y for your attor general. look at it if you want to. i'm not going to tell you which way to come down on whether to osecute theormer president of the united states? >> prosecution decisions shouldn't be made by liticians. what i will say is any attorney general that i would appoint is somebody who will faithfully
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apply the concept that no one is above the law, that everybody ought to be held accountable, whether they are a former president or whether they are somebody who has never been anywhere near the halls of power. that's the point. it's that justice is blind. i w aloint an attorney general and for that matter justices and judges who uphold that. >> iere is -- final topic i want to get to is your ability to win this democratic nomination in general. ifhe t is one whisper that democrats have candidatec candidacy, but can he get african-american support. i want to read you a quote from a pastor at the uplift church in indianapolis. it's going to be an obstacle, the fact that you are married to another man. i guarantee it's an ob tacle.
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it's achy subject, especially in the american church. i think it could be overcome. were getting to a point of -- i don't wa to say accept, but realizing this is the culture we have to begin to live with and adapt to it. i know you are having these conversations with a lot of rican-americans. how are they going? >> they are going well. we are working hard to engage people across the party especially black voters who expect you to demonstrate, especially when you are new onen the sc what your values are and how you are going to promote policies that lift them up. i think we have a moment on our hands when we can do the exact opposite of what the president has done. the president has used identity as a wedge, used race as a width to divide people who have common interests. have an opportunity to reach into our own identities and use them to build bridges, to reach out to pe different from us, knowing that anybody who has been on the short end of an
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equation of exclusion has a way to sympathize with people who have had different experiences with exclion in thiscountry. if we build a solidarity around that, then people who have for whater reason felt aack of belonging or felt exclusion or felt discrimination in this country, even though those patterns ofon discriminatire very, very different, when all of us come together, we win and we are all better off. >> i do want , follow up i have talked to african-american congressmen who like you and want to support you where some of their more conservative religiousns cotuents who vote straight ticket democrat would have trouble voting for you. what do you say to those politicians in washington who want to get behind your candidacy but are nervous about this? >> i would invite them to look at what happened in south bend. i'm from a socially conservative community. when i came out, we didn't know what the effects would be. was during an election year. mike pence was the governor of our state. he was popular at the time. what happened was, i won with
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80% of the vote. what that tells you people if you give them the chance will evaluate you based on what you aim to do, what the tsults are, what policies are. i have every confidence that er american vot especially democratic voters, will not discriminate when the opportunity comes up to choose the right leader for there fu >> pete buttigieg, i appreciate you coming on, sharing your views with us. stay safe on the trail. >> thank you. >> thanks for coming on. i will talk to the house minority whip, republican steve scalise of l scalise of l openturning 50 opens theuard. door to a lot of new things... like now your doctor may be talking to you openturabout screeningheuard. door tofor colon cancer.ngs... luckily there's me, cologuard. the noninvasive test you use at home. it all starts when your doctor orders me. then it's asasy as get, go, gone. iyou get me when i'mour dodelivered...me.
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are now avaible at google.com/grow fyplaque psoriasis get clearer. with moderate to severe and stay clearer. most patients ao saw 90% clearer skint 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. don't use iftrou're allergic to fya®. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. dofore treatment, your or should check you for infections and tb. tell your doctor if yosyhave an infection or toms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. serious allergic reactions may ocr. tremfya®. stay clearer.ns jan can help you explore cost support options. welcome back. republicans have found themself in a politically awkward position on the subject of election interfence. youay think stopping foreign foreigners from interfering would be an easy vote. but mitch mcconnell blocked a
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vote. kevin mccarthy took pains to avoid criticizing president trump's i would take it comments. joining us is steve scalise whose book is now out in paperback. congressman scalise, welcome back to "meet the press." nice to see you. >> good morning, chuck. good to be back with you. >> let me start with this election interference bill. i know you voted against what the house democrats b led as hr-1, this large voting rights bill that they put together. they carved out the parts just on election security -- there was an election security portion requiring paper ballots, establishing better cybersecurity standards, also would include iat think wh mark warner wants to see, immediate reporting to the fbi, could you vote for that bill? >> well, i had a lot of concerns with hr-1, not the least of
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which were the first amendment violatio. you had everybody from the aclu all the way to national right to life come together against that bill because of what it did to limit the free speech rights and religious freedom rights of millions of americans. th bill isiddled with problems. it puts tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money into political campaigns, somhing i don't think most americans want to see their tax dollars used for. problems. had massive interesting that it was the very first bill nancy pelosi chose to move throughhe house was a bill that far left. it's been an example how she's run the house. not addressing real problems. >> let's go to election security. let's talk -- i'm asking about just the election security. this was not a small event. this seems to be not unreasonable ideas here when it comes to the cybersecurity portion of thebill, what mark warner is calling for. could you support that? >> there's a lot on cybersecurity i think wecoan to an agreement on.
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i would like to see details on how she would work with us on some of the things we tried t t through congress that are bipartisan dealing with cybersecurity, because there are concerns not only for election security but the corporate side. you have seen personal data, private data stolen through attacks primarily from foreign state operators, whether it's russia, eachina, north korr so many others. >> i want -- there's a new story in "the new york times" today that highlights a moregr agsive tact that the u.s. government is doing now against russia in planning potential essentially forms of malware into the russian power grid, taking a more offensive ra approach, er than just doing this on defense. do you support that new policy? >> look, you have to take every step possible first of allketo maure what happened in 2016 with t
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when obama was president doesn't happen again in 2020 or any other election. i'm glad that the has been taking aggressive action, including if you saw in the executive order the president issued a few -- over a year ago, allowing dod to be more aggressive at making sure they can protect not only our grid but go after anybody who is going to try to mess with our election security. >> it was interesting -- i want o point out one nugget in that story. aprently, the president was not fully briefed on this operation. i want to show youone part of this "new york times" story about that. it says, pentagon andll inteence officials describe broad hesitation to go into detail with mr. trump about operations against russia for concern over his reaction and the possibility he might countermand it or discuss it with foreign offials as he did in 2017 when he mentioned an operation to the russian foreign minister. the president was upset about the story, even getting in the public domain as he tweeted about it last night.
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do you believe that these officials made a mistake not iefing the president about this operation? >> chuck, the president and the white house have pushed back against a nueler ofents of the story. the bottom line is the president is taking aggressive action against russia. i wish that would have happened in 2016 when they were trying to meddle with our elections. i think e message is being sent now. if the russians try to take some action against our elections or any othecountry, we are already ready to go after them. it should have happened in 2016. i'm glad the president is being aggressive against any foreignw countris going to try to meddle with our election. >> do you think the republican campaign arm of the house ought to pledge not to use any stolen material, hacked tell? i know there's been attempts to get all -- both political parties to sign pledges. there's been hesitation on the house side. >> i'mre they will look at that. i think it's interesting that the entire basis of the mueller report was informationhat the democrat party got from russia.
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they solicited using foren spies of all people and used that to turn it over to the fbi and unfortunately, had you some people in the fbi with a political agenda against president trump who used that as the basis for an investigation to spy on then candidate president trump. there are a lot of concerns i think in things that need to rooted out within the fbi to makesnure that doe happen again either. >> let me turn to iran here. et what point do you think the president ns to go to congress to approve any sort of escalation with iran? where is your comfort level on what ye believe he has ability to do now and what he needs to come tong coress for? >> the white house has been briefing congress on what's happening in iran and how this has been building up. of course, this does go back to the iranian deal thatee was agr to in the previous administration. donald trump, when he was a candidate, expressed his real concerns withshat deal a so many of us in congress opposed
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it back then and even our allies like israel opposed the iran deal when it went through congress. you saw prime minister netanyahu give a compelling speech against it. what president trump has been doing to make sure that we'rein goto stand up to russia -- our sanctions have been very effective. that's why you are seeing an take action. this shows you, chuck, do you really want a nuclear-armed iran? this is why the worl not just america, but aour allies are concerned. this is what they did without one. >> do you think the president has the authority, due to the aumf, from in 2002, does he have the authority now to conduct am tary operation against iran? >> we don't want to see it escalate to where it is a military operation. he president g take action and make sure that we have protection against american interests in the middle east. including in the strait there
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where you saw this explosion, where the bomb was detonated. the president is making satre e is protecting american interests. i don't want to see it escalate just like i don't think anybody we have to stand up to iran. this is oneeore exampl of why we need to be concerned about heir actions. >> before i letu go, one thing about your book. you wrote about the issue of social media, talking about the person that shot you. his post dripping with scorn and hate toward the republican pares and ent trump fuelled him more. he was living a double assistance. he wasngry and confrontational online. a combatant when provided the anonymity of an online avatar. the same idea, social media sort of taking overhis man's life. how do you not violate the first amendment and have the social media coanies purge the folks before they commit violence?
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>> chuck, what i have always said is wee can hav political disagreement. when youross the line and start inciting violence against other people, that's where there's no place for that in awlitics. we st in the case of the shooting in my case with the baseball field shooting. as withothers, you saw somebody trying to not only disagree but where they took action and tried to take out people because of litical belief. fortunately, police were there on the scene. law enforcement made sure it didn't happen. thank god they were there and o manyer heroes and miracles i talked about. >> social media companies, can they get rid of these peoe fore they commit violence? do you think that's a violation of first amendment rights? that's up to each of them. you are seeing social media companies take action to try to stop people from inciting violence or in cases even like the florida shooting where they
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saw the kid say, i want to be a school shooter. that gets turned over to law enforcement. they dropped the ball on that case. they should have been able to follow through more. >> steve scalise, number two republican on the house side, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. you look at good as ever two years later. nice to see you. >> feeling great. happy father's day to u. >> happy father's day to you. when we come back, election interference plus the trump vers biden polls that the president said didn't exist. do.l, they do.l, they we have got them
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expect more from ai. ibm watson. welcome back. panelists here, george will, whose latest book is "the conservative sensibility," helene cooper, danielle pletka and mark leibovich. welcome, everybody. want to combine two thoughts here, george. we have election interference and what the president said at first and then he backtracks it. i want to read you something jameholman wrote that had to do with the hch act. president trump's announcement
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that he will not punish kellyanne conway captures his belief that the rules don't apply to him and his loyalists the way they do everyone else. it seemed to me these are connected in that if he thinks it has nothing to do with him or helps him, ignore it. >> article two is spare in describing the duties of the president and basically they come down to taking care the laws are faithfully executed. there's an asterisk over that. >> didn't the president real it? if he doesn't act, he repealed it. >> yes. it's caed a -- they call it enforcement discretion. the enforcement mhanisms are spread thin. with regard to the election interfe interfe interfer interference, he is a complete amateur in arican publ life
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and the rules and norms are mysterious to him. besides, he campaigned on the promise, we knew this promise was going to be kept, that he would continue to do what he did in campaign, which wasiolate all existing norms. no onehould be surprised. >> not surprising at all. >> the problem washington is that donald trump takes what are, i think norms and runs with them. the hatch act is violated every single day in multiple ways. i spent ten years on the hill. i can't cou the number of times i saw senators, theirf staf violating the hatch act. it's rather inconvenient. you can't do political business from your senate office. if you want to call a donor or anything else, you have h leave, youe to go elsewhere. of course, it gets violated. the toblem withrump is that he has taken what is sort of a bandwidth and just tossed it all out and said -- taken it to the
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logical end, which is violating it. >> the thing is that norms are things that are essentially respected within a very, very small bubble, which isas bically washington. the public life. most people in mesh don't know what the hatch act is. >> and don't care. i don't know if they care. wait, don't -- isn't kellyanne conway supposed to defend the president and attack his -- there's a level of common sense that isithink the predent does align with that does win over a lot of his supporters. >> and yet he is chipping away at these things. they are little ones. the consequence of this could be come november that the losing side, no matter, doesn't believe the result. >> i think that's absolutely true. i think that -- it's not just the hatch act. i cover the military. i pay a lot of atntion to tr trump as a commander in chief. he has gone so far on the whole
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violating thisrincipal of not politicizing the military. the whole thing with the uss mccain back in tokyo when he was visiting last month, was another example of this. when you have this sort of thing repeatedly, i wonder what happens to us once trump is dne what happens when you have taken so many of these accepted norms and ways of conduing ouelves and how does the next person -- >> i i have noa how you bring it back. let me turn to the president's political prospects. he is launching his re-electiond campaign tue. the infamous polls, we got our hands on pretty much all of them. let me show you them and why the president didn't like that they went public. here is virginia, maine, minnesota, michigan. 40 is the best he does in any of those with biden -- these are just biden/tru matchups.
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biden was the strongest. look at biden's numbers. look at this. north carolina, iowa, ohio. these were three states that trump carries. he is down eight in north carolina, seven in iowa, ohio just one. that tells you more about where ohio is headed. we also had ins,texa trump was only up two. in georgia, our source tells us that biden is up six. he had double digit i leadsn wisconsin, pennsylvania and florida. by the way, the campaign didn't dispute the numbers. campaign manager br parscale gave us this quote. all news isse completely fal the president's new polling is extraordinary and his numbers have never been better.my olleague is reporting right now with the trump campaign is going to beng firi pollsters, believing they were behind this leak. george, these numbers aren't surprising to me. >> no. shooting the messenger isn't
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surprising either. in fact, there are worse numbers in the sense that in aozen states he carried in 2016, his disapproval is over 50%. those are state s he carried. if you have to bet on, bet on anybody but trump. >> do we believe the polls? >> wow. >> sorry. >> the presi. nt doesn't >> i'm just saying after 2016, i'm not entirely sure that this soon in the game we should be paying any attention to any of this. >> except the president pays a lot of attention to this. that is what is sort of -- is h can' never let them -- he never wants to show weakness. >> a poll th -- where he has flatlined is the band between 42% and 46%. that's not -- it's not early to say that almost two years of this, that representsis hloor and ceiling. >> here is a bigger problem. the job number and his personal rating are all aligning.
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usually, a successfulec re-eld president has one as a positive way, a winning personality. he doesn't have that. >> right now, it's -- there's no choice. do you like donald trump or don't you like? donald trump a generic democrat -- he will run against a real person. >> this was against joe biden. >> joeiden is a stand-in for a generic democrat. >> fair enough. he will represent that remark. >> he is someone people know. people know what they're getting wi him. he will be defined. en, e goes against wa buttigieg, it's a different dynamic in the race. >> it is. we will see. the president -- i have a feeling, they will release new poll numbers that show just him winning. winning, winning, winning. when we come back, americans have never been more united on abortion. and more time.d at the same time.d at the same wait until you see the new
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en you dig into the responses, it shows a larger trend that has major implications for both political parties. overall, the number of america saying abortion should be legal all or most of the time has climbed to 56%. that is actually up seven points since 2008. 11 years ago. what's remarkable is the consisten unsistency. itamongst all groups. the percentage of men saying abortion should be legal all or most of the time has climbed two points, among women, 11 points. 13 points among democrats, four among republicans. but those numbers don't mean the country has made a final decision on this issue. we noticed another trend. a hardening of views on both sides. this poll showed a record number of people who want abortions to be illegal in all cases. but it shows a jump in the number of people who want t abortionbe legal without exception. legal in all cases is at 34%. that's up three points from lt year. illegal withouts exception is at
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12%. that's five points higher than march of 2018. you can probably guess what's driving this movement. the partisan divide shows up in the hardening of the views among core republicans. those that strongly back the y, part7% say abortion should be illegal with no exception. that's up nine points from 18% in 2018. among core democrats, 58% say they want abortion to always be legal. that's up eight points from march of 2018. yes, overall, the movement is towardl ality. not away from it. but underneath those numbers you see just another sign of the political reity in 2019. the middle ground has eroded. that might be because on the issue of abortion, there's not a lot of appetite for a middle ground anyway. when we come eback, dcrats running for president find a common target. common target. johnson & johnson is a baby company. but we're also a company that controls v,
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why? i can't handle beltway traffic anymore. i gotta get in the express lane. i can't handle beltway you're kind of freaking us out. you know what? just try waze carpool. who are headed in the it same direction -and riders that way you can say hi to the express lane, and share the cost of the commute. but what about davide? and victoria? seriously. download waze carpool. you could end up riding wi coworkers... or neighbors. it's that easy. ride together with waze carpool. back now with end game. we were tellin you the democratic candidates have a new target. it's not president trump. take a li to how comfortable some of the candidates are getting going after joe biden. >> joe biden the return to the past >> he is. that cannot be who we are going forward. >> does joe biden represent the
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future? >> no, i don't think so. i think we -- it's time for a new generation of leadership. >> democrats can no more turn the clock back to the 1990s than republicans can return us to19 e s. we should not try.oe >> j biden in the crosshairs. the rest of the field figured out joe biden is ahead. >> they have. it's natural political gravity. you can't talk only about donald trump. frankly, joe biden makes a pretty easy foil. he has run unsuccessfully for president twice. he was beloved but in a goofy uncle way. you do sort of wonder -- w he is going to work as a contrast item generationally and as all three of the democrats just said, as someone whous is jt the return to yesterday. these are three democrats under the age of 55. >> let put up the debate matchups here for our big first round of debates.
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night one, the big name is elizabeth warren. you have klobuchar, oker, o'rourke, people that six weeks ago would have said, this is the big night of the debate. look at night two, which is the z joe biden night. george will, you look at those lineups. should warren be happy she's not -- she gets a night essentially as the frontrunner of the debate she's participating in? >> sure. to not be on the stage with biden. she can assume the other ninele peho are on stage with biden will do their duty, which is to treat him as a pinata. she stands above it. there will b lots of other debates en she will be next to him. byllhen, he we scarred. >> it's interesting, held eveen.
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are you enthusiastic about the idea of this person running for president? this is just among democratic primary voters. we have been testing it all for the first six months. as you can bie, n and sanders, their enthusiasm up ins have dropped since march. elizabethrr wa's number has gone up since march. more enthusiastic among democratic primary voters than the other two. >> that was interesting seeing her jump over sanders as well. i think she has -- she has a lot of room to move up. i think on the biden issue, it's just -- to me, fee really obvious. these guys are going after biden because he's the guy to beat. is he not? there's a reason why he has assumed this frontrunner status. listening to buttigieg and listening to o'rourke, there'sla of concern. they feel this isre who they a going to have to defeat in order to win the nomination.
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>> this feels like -- >> you are so cynical. >> you know why? the republican party in the run-up to the last election was just such an awful spectacle. watching one person after another go after each other in this circular firing squad. i actually feel a little bad for poor old joe biden. of course, joe biden is old but so is bernie sanders. so ee lilizabeth warren. >> elder statesmen can be a double-edged sword. >> it can be. what we are going to watch for the next year and a half is the democrats going after their number one person in thepo s. warren, they're coming for you next. >> doesn't matter how many of the democrats attack biden. as long as trump keeps attacki biden, he can be happy. xon's campaigning around the country for leaders. he gets under johnson's skin.
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johnson denounces him as a chronic campaigner making him the focus of the republicans. he went on to be elected. >> that is something -- it's interesting here. the trump campaign has been trying to get the president to direct his tweets at people other than biden. go after warren. go after bernie. do something to make the democrats have o town the farther leth candidates ra than biden. >> i think that's right. donald trump looks at polls. we know that. he is very present, focused. he sees biden against him. he is going to focus on joe bin. i don't think the president really -- i think the president is struggling on how to dejone e biden. joe biden is such a known entity, certainly in america and the armocratic p. donald trump has an easier time talking about people who are out in the public sphere. >> he is not going to -- don't know why his campaign is second guessing him so much. this is the one thing th he
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actually has shown some -- >> he has a little gut instinct. >> a good feel for it. he is after biden now. he will be after whoever is next when the time comes. >> it's nteresting how is very dismissive of kamala harris and pete buttigieg. i don't understand why he is that dismissive right now. >> he knows joe biden. he is used to going after -- he hasn't been able to come up with a good enough name. buttigieg mbracednewman. sleepy joe hasn't worked that well. he is more comfortable going -- kamala harris will be problematic for him. that one -- he will have to rely temper his natural sort of sexist tendencies. >> that's my curiosity. i think he doesn't know yet -- you are right about harris. i think the same with buttigieg. they have not figured out how to go after this guy. >> that's right.
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sleepy? i want a sleepy president. no, i think that's right. i think he is uneasy when he cannot pigeonhole somebody. >> the other thing about warren, to sort of not talk about this as so much of a hors race, is one of the reasons she's doing better is people say she's runninru running a very good campaign. >> she said yesterday, i have a plan for that and people applaude people are noticing. >> exactly. >> she's playing tortoise here. it seems to be working. much. you very that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. happy father's day to all you dads out there. remember, we'll be back next ecause if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."
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