>>this sunday,mmigration crisis. democrats denounce conditions at immigrant deteion centers in texas. >> what we saw today was unconscionable. the whole system is broken. it's got to be fixed. >> and in florida. >> it's not temp'sary housing. prison camp. >> and president trump has an answer for them. >> you know how it could be taken care of?mb er one, tell them not to come because it's illegal. >> what's the solution? this morning, i'll talk to a as democrat who h long called for centers like these to be shut down, senator jeff merkley of oregon. and to the only republicanng ssman representing any part of the border, will hurd of texas. plus, as setoramala harris stays on offense, joe biden concedes. he was wrong to seem to praise segregationist senators. >> i regret it. i'm sorry for any of the pain or misconception it may have causeb any. >> as o scrutinyf democratic

candidates intensify, i'll talk to presidtial candidate, senator amy cloklobuchar. and americans debate ation, how to celebrate the fourth, even what it means to be an american. joining me for insight and anal is arec news white house correspondent peterex alder, kimberly atkins, senior washington news correspondent for wbur in boston, jonah goldberg, and sh h na thomas. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning, and happy july 4th weekend. this holiday is traditionally a unifying event, celebrating the country's tindependence and pride that comes with being an american. this week we witnessed a debate about what it means to be an american. we s democratic lawmakers denounce the conditions in detention centers, filled with undocumentedmmigrants hoping to become americans some day.

and we saw president trump tweet, ifmm illegalrants run hape -- arunhappy with the conditions, just tell them not to come. all problems solved. we saw a fight over how to count americans with president trump insisting ng includi a citizenship question on the census. and opponents arguing that's nothing more than an attempt to reduce theumber of representatives in congress for hispanic americans and democrats. separate july 4th celebrations on the washington mall with pro-trump crowds gathering to hear the president's speech at lincol memorial and those choosing to ignore mr. trump's speech, gathering by the u.s. capitol. collectively, these incidents illustrate the growing divisions in this country. perhaps none of those issues are more urgent right now than the migrant crisis at the border with lots of challenges and very few answers. >> i think they do a great job with those facilities, but you know how it could be takere of? number one, tell them not to come because it's illegal. >> reporter: president trump on friday responding to a report by

the department of homeland security's independent watchdog that warns of dangerous overcrowding and prolonged detention at border facilities in south texas. inspectors say 88 men were cr medto this cell with a capacity of just 41 people. children at several of the facilities had no access to showers or hot meals. a third of the children at the facilities were held for more than three days, in violation of federal law. last wk acting homeland security secretary denied that conditions at border facilities had deteriorated. >> sunstantiated allegations last week regarding a single border facility created a sensation. >> reporter: but lawyers have described deplorable conditions where children are left without accesssoap, clean water, showers, clean clothing, toils, toothbrushes, adequate nutrition, or adequate sleep. this photo was taken byn congressma joaquwa joaquin cast.

>> we saw that thete s is still broken and that people's human rights are still being abused. >> nohchildld ever be taken from their family. no woman should ever be locked up in a pen when they have done no harm to another human being. >> reporter: justice department attorneydhave argue in court that thoseon conditi are lawful. >> if you don't have a toothbrush, if you don't have soap, if you don't have a blanket, it's not safe and sanitary. ouldn't everybody agree to that? do you agree to that? >> well, i think it's -- i think those are --here's fair reason to find that those things may be part of safe danitary. >> not may be. are. >> reporter: the new reports have sparked protests around the country from tex to south florida to washington, d.c.st laeek congress passed $4.5 billion in new funding, but it

failed to include oversight provisions supported by some house and senate democrats. >> i've seen some of those places, and they are run beautifully. they are clean.e they'r good. they do a great job. >> and joining me this morning are democratic senator jeff merkley of oron, who's long called for centers holding children to be shut down. he'll be joining us from portland. and from san antonio, w representativel hurd, the only republican congressman who represents a district on the u.s./mexico border. senator merkley, i'd like to start our conversation with you. you've been a leading voice on this before others had. you had made pilgrimages to these centers before others had gone down there. why hasn't anything changed, and why has it gotten worse? >> well, i tell you, when i hear a member of the administration say that the reports on there conditions aunsubstantiated, i'm just like, what world are they living in? because we've had the inspector

general, who worked for these dv departments, do these reports. we've had journalis do extensive interviews and report on the conditions. we've had the flores settlement agreement lawyers who have special access go in and report on the conditions. from every direction, you see that the children are being treated in a horrific manner, and there's an underlying philosophy that it's okay t treat refugees in this fashion. and that's really the rot at the core of the administration's policy. >> senator merkley, what would happen if we could get our cameras in there? i mean, i don't mean to be this crass about it, but are pictures what are missing here for weaction? >> , certainly we have a visual picture from these various reports. an actual camera might make a difference. >> why is the administration not allowing -- because that, to me, is a sort of -ly potential comes across as damning. why do they prevent -- why do they take your cell phones if

you're a member of congress going in there? they clearly are afraid of pictures. why? >> well, it's because pictures portray a very graphic representation that people can't argue with. so they don't want that information out. i will say, thoh, the conditions are probably always better when members of congress visit. they've required ex ensive notice in advance. they clean up the facilities. they decrease the number of people there. so that's why it's valuable to have an inspector general who can drop in at a moment's notice and who works for the administration to give a report. but let's think about that settlement or the bill that was just passed. it did nothing to change the il blockade of chen at the border being left in mexico. it did nothing to change the for-profit system of homestead where 3200 children capacity, the largest child prison in american history, is being established. the company is paid $750 a day to lock up children, no incentive to get them into homes. this process of then

brutalizat refugees and particularly children is part of a philosophy of saying if we ll at them like this, w discourage them from coming. there's just no ethical framework or religious tradition that allows you to mdrtreat chil in this fashion. >> let me ask you this. the president seems to say -- this is what he tweets, and i'm curious if you take at his word. he seems to say that if democrats will agree to his changes in the asylum laws,hat he'll perhaps, you know, move on this issue. democrats must change the loophole and aie lumbsylum laws they probably won't. they want open borders, which means massive crime and drugs. are there changes to the law at you would agreeo? >> well, let's get rid of the myth that democrats are for open borders. we've suppor border security. that's a red herring thrown in there. but the change they want is to get rid of the s florestlement agreement that says you can only lock up children for three days

and you need to movethem into a state licensed childcare facility or into a home. there is no way under any set of conditions that democrats are going to support the indefinite lockup of children. we knowrom all the child experts that this does traumatic injury, that that trauma can have lifelong effects. it's a horrific strategy on their part, on the part of the administration, and the answer on that is absolutely not. flores, in fact, needs to be teplied to the influx facilities like homes where it's not being applied currently. so we need to expand that application, not eliminate it. >> look, it feels as if we're in this stalemate here where he's -- if the president's not going to budge on this, congressional republicans are likely not going to move. thin would move if he's wi to move. we've seen that politically on some other issues. walk me through how this is going to -- how do you fix this? how do you expedite this?

it just seems to me 're in a cul-de-sac here. >> well, we are trapped. we're trapped between a philosophy that says let's discourage immigration by mistreating refugees and an argument that let's be a country, as we have often been, that treats migrants and h respect. it doesn't mean that they're able to stay. it's very hard to go through this process. most applicants are turned down. but there's no reason to mistreatndividuals as they're awaiting an asylum hearing. i don't know how we can get to phat core change unless we have some real leaders from republicans inside congress who say enough is enough. >> i want to get you to respond to something that jeh johnson, president obama ee's secretary homeland security, wrote in "the washington post." he said, we cannot, as some democratic candidates for president now propose, publicly embrace the policy to not deport those who enter our remain in

is country illegally unless they commit a crime. this is tantamount to a public declaration repeated and amplified by smul lers in centerica that our borders are effectively open to all. how do yo respond t secretary johnson's critique that the idea of decriminalizing coming over the border feeds into thit, notion thayeah, it's open borders? >> well, previous to the trump administration, it's a civil offense, not a criminal offense. that's the distinction they're speaking of. that doesn't mean you get to testay in the united sta indefinitely. you still go through an asylum hearing. we maintain the family case management program where 99% to 100% of families showed up for their asylum hearings. they were treated with respect and dignity. if they establise,d their cas they're able to stay. if not, they're deported. in between, they're treated as fellow human beings who are fleeing difficul circumstances. and they're treated with respect

and decency. >> before i go, one political question for you, senator merkley. four years ago, this is what you wrote about bernie sanders when you endorsed him for president. it is time to recommit to that vision of a country that measures our nation's success, not at boardroom table, but kitchen tables across america. bernie sanders stands for that america. so i stand with bernie sanders for veesident. you ot endorsed this time. there was a reference this morning in the "new york times" that you probably have heard about that senatorve sanders called you to ask for your support again. where do you stand on the presidential race? >> well, we have a lot of capable individuals w are running who do understand the kitchen table, and i'm really looking forward to them laying out that vision, getting america excited about returning to the fundamentals of taking on health care and housing and education, infrastructure, living wage jobs, the things that have been incredibly neglected and set aside by this administration. >> so why not sanders this time? >> well, i feel tha there are

many capable individuals who are making this case, and i'm looking forward to hearing each of them lay it out. it's both the vision that you have and your ability to carrya thision into the momentum that allows you to make these changes once you're in office. i think a robuste debatmong these individuals is -- this is no longer hillary cl ton and bernie sanders. hillary clinton is not a candidate. we have a different set of cards this time, and i'm looking orward to hearing from all of them. >> all right. senator jeff merkley, democrat from oregon, thank you for coming on and sharing wheyour >> thank you. >> let me turn for another perspective. congressman will hurd of texas. as i said, the only repubtican repres any part of the border. you're joining me from san antonio. nice to see you, sir. happy julyekth wed. >> thanks, chuck. i appreciate being on. >> let me start with what the inspector general's report said of these border facilities. serious overcrowding, 31% of children held longer an 72

hours, adults have been given wet wipes to maintain personal hygiene. some single adults were held in standing room only conditions. that's just the government and what they've admitted here. as you know, in the "new york times" today, the facility in clint, texas, in your district, here's their description. the stench of t children's dirty clothing was so strong, it spread to the agents' own clothing. the children cried constantly. one girl seemed likely enough to try to kill herself. the agents made her sleepn o cot in front of them so they could watch her as they were processing new arrivals. congressman, i know you're not happy withhese conditions either, but at this point, do we need to stop this, and how do we stop it? >> in that "new york times" report, that's the agents telling "the new york mes" reporter. these facilities shouldn't hold anybody for any length of time, let alone children. we should be handling people

with care and humanity when they are in our custody. but the ig report, which you were talking about, that came out i think on july 3rd, there was also an ig report in maylk tag about these facilities were not prepared for the load that they re having to deal with. and these are temporary facilities, and unfortunately the solution here is we need i.c.e. and hhs to have additional re when it comes to caring for children. hhs is the federal entity designed to handle children. border patrol, because of the flores settlement, is supposed to have these children ready to ansfer within 72 hours. right now they're having them ready within 42 hours. but i.c.e. and hhs doesn't have the capacity in order to take folks. and is unfortunate, you know, when many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle voted against an amendment that

i put forward, about $2 billion more for hhs to deal with this crisis. they voted against that. i tried to get 100 more judicial teams. because the backlog of these immigration cases, we have 900,000 people that are still trying to get through the system. we should be able to get an immiation case done within nine months. they voted against judicial -- increasing the judges. >> but isn't the issue here that the democrats haveot really with your amendment but lack of trust with the trump administration. they don't -- you could make a idrong argument that the decision to pull arom the central american countries, which i know you're a huge critic of, but to pull that ai to create family separation, they've made the problem worse. so the lack of trust that they can handle this when you have an administration that clearly is micromanaging things. i would sit here and say, fi you have connce in the leadership, but everybody is acting. there's no confirmed member

anywhere it seems in this process. >> chuck, that's absolutely a problem. the number of acting folks, are they willing to make tough decisions when we need to. so yes, there is a lack of trust between congressional democrats and the executive branch, but thatoesn't change the reality that we're dealing with right now. facilities, people that are overwhelme border patrol is not -- they were trained in order to handle chilen like this. ey weren't trained for the medical issues that they're seeing. they were trained to be in between our ports of entry and grab people and apprehend people that are coming into our country illegally. but some of the things that we need to do to fixthis, i've said many times, we should nominate and select a special representative for the northern triangle, el salvador, guatemala, and honduras, to work with those three countrie on the rootcauses, which is violence, extreme poverty, and

lack of economic opportunity. should be making sure that usaid and state department resources -- we shouldn't be decreasing resources toem. >> but congressman, you're at odds with the administration here. they seem to have no interest in that. w do you convince -- >> that's why i'm -- >> does the president reach out to you for advice on this or no? >> he hasn't reached out personally, but i have many conversations with folks throughout the administration. i'm going to connue to articulate the solutions. you know, the other thing we're not focusing on, not enough people are focusing on is human smuggling. i spent almost a decade as an undercover officer in the cia. i chased terrorist groups like al qaeda, prevented intelligence services from stealing our secrets, put nuclear weapon prolive rpr priferators out of business. we have their phone numbers. we have license plates of buses that have moved people to el paso. we need to make sure that

countering human smuggling is a national intelligence priority so we have the cia, the nsa, the fbi working with our allies in those countries to stop those root causes there. they're the ones that are facilitating these perous journeys for young women, for kids, and for these families. and we're not putting nearly ough attention on that in order to dismantle the infrastructure that is moving people here illegally. also, we should be streamlining legal immigration, right? i had a proposal, it was he only bipartisan immigration proposal out there to streamline legal immigration so people that want to co -- you know, the united states of america has benefitted from the brain drain of every other country for the last couple. decades let's benefit from the hard working. let's do it legally. >> okay. let me ask you about the census and the supreme court decision d then the president's attempt essentially to go around the supreme court. where are you c on thetizenship question? do you think it should have been

added or not? >> well, i think that the supreme court has.ruled i think we can't wait. we need to make sure we accurately count everybody. an accurate count is important for cities, for counties. >> so you are against -- sounds like you're against the citizenship question because it could lead to a miscount. >> well, we don't want there to be a miscount for sure. everybody needs to be counted. m also concerned that does the census bureauriave the t capabilities to protect the information that is being collected. you know, i used to serven the committee that oversaw this in the last congress. there were problems with their cybersecurity dense. so we have a lot of broader problems. so let's -- the supreme court has ruled. let's move forward. we shouldn't stall the census, and we need to make sure that the information we're collecting is protected. >> iant to ask you about somebody who you have voted with a few times, against your own

party. that's justin amash. here's what he wrote on independence day, dlaring his independence. the founders envisioned congress as a deliberative body in which outcomes are discovered. we're fast approaching the point, however, where congress exists as little more than a formality t legitimize outcomes dictated by the president. number one, is he right, and have you thought about leaving the republican party? >> it's unfortunate tt justin believes that the party is not big enough for his position and his ideas. i think t republican party should be a broad party. i shouldn't be the only african-american republican in the house of representatives. >> you had a pretty colorful quote to the washington blade where your advice to republicans was don't be an expletive, don't be a homophobe, things like that. >> absolutely. we need to make sure the republican party is growing. look at my state. it's purple. just because we don't have a

statewi statewide elected democrat doesn't mean we're not purple. the republican party in texas needs to start looking like texas. that goes for the rest of the country as well. t we have an opportunity because i know independents and center-left democrats are concerned with the direction of the democratic party. and we have an opportunity to intrigue those folks that have interested in solving probls in the future by empowering people and not governments. >> will hurd, republican from texas. as id, the only republican that represents a district on the border. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. f course, chuck. take care. when we come back, we're going to talk about the crisis at the border. as we go to break, here's some pictures of captivity drawn by children who had been held in thank you is what we say. but we mean so much more. we mean how can we help?

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news white house correspondent peter alexander, kimberly atkins, awna thomas, bureau chief for vice news, and los angeles times columnist jon jonah goldberg. welcome, all.aw sh, i feel like -- and i worried about this going into both of those interviews, that i would come out of it with no answers. and we're in this cul-de-sac. it feels as if -- and i think it's because of the president, gebut i don't know how we out of this cul-de-sac. >> i think secretary -- former secretary jeh johnson's op-ed in the post was interesting because he basically said comprehensive immigration reform is super hard. we ted ituring the obama administration, didn't get it done even though there was some bipartisan agreement. >> they tried it in the bush administration, and it didn't get done. >> even though there was bipartisan agreement on what to do. the thing i keep wondering is the same question you asked him, which is, okay, republicans and

democrats, you both acknowledge that kids in cages and those photos you swed before weent to break is terrible. this is not how america treats people. we don't have enough space in hhs facilities to movepeople, which is why it's taking so long. what are you going toyo do? anare going to have to get together and maybe force the president into doing something. i think the other thing we know is the president thinks this is a deterrent. and every time we put these pictures out there, it's a deterrent. and he is not -- >> is it? >> well -- >> what's the evidence it's a deterrent? right? >> but he's hoping it's a deterrent. and if people come out and their stories are terrible, maybe he will end up getting what he wants out of that. >> jonah, i have a feeling if the president -- capitol hill could solve this if the president were involved. >> oh, that is a true statement about many things. telling. it's that video you showed at the tiginning of sarah fabian, the trump administra lawyer,

defending those conditions, what's left out in a lot of media coverage is that was a case from the obama administration. the point being that tis actually a bigger problem than trump. the nature of the immigrants who are trying to cross the border is different than what our s system was up to deal with. it used to be able-bodied, single men, mostly from mexico, coming across the border. we have a legal system to deal with that. now because of the flores decision and other aspects of our law, you have central americans bringing small kids. they basically are using these kids, sometimes they're nth r own kids, sometimes they are, obviously, using these kids as a pass to get across the border. and jeh johnsote is absolu right. will hurd is absolutely right. if we don't deal with the problem as it actually exists rather than the one we imagi it to be, it creates -- as the obama administration discovered, it creates a perverse incentive to send more people to the rder. >> but the incentive is also being exacerbated by the trump administration and by trump and his policies and rhetoric itself. talking about cutting aid to these countries.

using kids, i don't know if they're much usingids. the vast majority of the time, children come with a family member. if it is not a parent, they're treated as if th're an unaccompanied minor. these are people coming as families, escaping atrocious conditions. if they see what's happening at the border, if they know, that just tells you how atrocious these conditions are. but the president sees this not only as a deterrent, but he sees it as a political advantage. he sees he's being tough on im'sgration. thathat his people want. that's why he stood up in 2017 and 2018, he had an opportunity to do immigration reform. he could have said, i did what bush and obama couldn't do. and he walked away from it, both times, because he thought it was political. >> i'm struck by a couple things. first of all, the president had a different reetion when h saw those syrian children. obviously the circumstances were different. he saw the images of what wasng takilace to these children overseas. he thought the solution was easy. i could bomb these runways. didn't hurt anybody and iot to the hero. why hasn't he had the same impact -- why hasn't he shown

the smethy to some of these children in the united states? i spoke to a trump ally who said it's because the president thinks this is more complicated, some people say he's the bad guy. so clearly the bad guy has to be the democrats. the president is so focused on marketing and selling, right? so this is allhbout -- t's why he put out the tweet saying we're going to deport mlllions and mins of these undocumented immigrants. chuck, they have 6,000 deportation officers in the country. you're not deporting millions of people. >> but he'll keep saying. >> of cohese, because t bottom line is the message. >> which brings me to the census. why does he continue to fight this? he needs to be seen by his base as fighting, but if he was trying to make a legal argument to get it back, this comment here destroyed any chance of that. take a listen. >> well, you need it for many reasons. number one, you need it for congress. you need it for coress, for districting. you need it for appropriations. where are the funds going? how many people areeyhere?

are thitizens? are they not citizens? you need it for many reasons. >> shawna. >> yeah, i mean, number one in this country, when we redistrict based on the census, we do it based on persons, not citizens. what everyone is saying is when he saysthat, is he trying to turn this into a ploy where we redistrict based on citizenship? if that's the case, what a lot of people have said is that means republicans are an advantage. white people have anad ntage. but the federal government has specifically said in this case that it had nothing to do with the supreme court didn't even take that part up. they didn't let them take that part up. now the maryland judge is letting them take that part up. now the people on the other side, the plaintiffs, have this. >> but jonah, i don't mean to be this cynicalehere, but president is going to continue to talk about it, and even though it won't be on the form, many hispanics may hear that it is on the form or may fear that it's on the form.

he has now said it enough, and maybe that's -- the damage is done. >> maybe. there's w aiff of four-dimensional chess that you're describing. >> well, and he's never a four-dimensional player. >> we should be clear. i actually think the executive branch has everyonstitutional right to actually ask about citizenship and nativity, which it did for about 190 years. this was a completely unforced error which justice roberts basically said if you hadn't screwed up the way you did this, you could ask it. the problem is trump is not sstting that mee, and they're not getting their ducks in a row. if they just were less on the crazy train, they could get some of the things they want done. >> it's a difference between growing pains and the pains of not growing. i was struck by whate lawyers said when they were discussing this. the lawyers said, as the tweet came out, this was the first time the lawyer heard aut it. quote, i'm going to do my absolute best to figure out what's going on here. >> by the way, i want to takeuo

that q -- we should quickly put it up. it could apply to every tweet he has evid sa to any administration official. here it is. the tweet this morning was the first i had heard of the president's positionthis issue, just like the plaintiffs and your honor. i do not have a deeper understanding of what that means at th juncture other than what the president has tweeted. but obviously as you can imagine, i'm doinglu my absote best to figure out what's going on. >> it's also the c versation we all had with our bosses. >> it is the -- that is, to me, the quote of the administration. >> the bottom line is he has the perception of fighting. that's why there's all this shifting going scenes to figure out what to do. >> joshua gartder idner, you ge mic drop moment here. he was the person whoat uttered th statement. when we comebr 25% of yr mouth.

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welcome back. the broad brush takeaway from last week'eb democratices was that the party is moving sharply to the left. from health care to decriminalizing illegal immigration, most of the 20 candidates staked out positions well to the left of where the party had traditionally settled just in the last couple years. one candidate who bucked that trend is senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. she's presenting herself as a bit more of a pragmatic democrat, or a pragmatic progressive, who can win back those midwesterners whoor suppd both barack obama twice and donald trump once. senator klobuchar joins me this morning from the town of whitefield in northern new hampshire, where she's glad to be coming in july. just wait until february, senator. >> i can handle it. remember my announcement in the snow. >> that's right. that's for sure. you'd be very comfortle up there. let me start with this debate

about where is the democratic party headed. during your debate night, i want to play for youat bill de blasio said about how he thought the democratic party should be defined. take a listen. >> this is supposed to be the party of workineople. yes, we're supposed to be for 70% tax rate on the wealte'. yes, supposed to be for free college, free public college for our jungwe people. e supposed toreak up big corporations when they're not serving our democracy. >> is his assessment of the democratic party concur with yours? those are hisviews, and i would certainly agree with parts of what he said. he said we are the party of working people. that is true now, and it's certainly true when you look at the republican tax bill. and when it comes to how weove our country forward on health care, you know i want a public option and i'm very concerned about some of these plans that would kick half of america off of their insurance, i don't agree with that.

d i think that we should make college much more affordable, but we want to make sure that that money is going topehe le that need it and not to a bunch of rich kids. and i have made that very clear. but what i do know is that we are much more unified against donald trump, and we have things that we disagree on, but in the end, we'll come together. the republican party, by the way, they basically are saying right now to donald trump, how far can we jump? how high can we jump to be just like you? i'm glad we have some differences. that's why we have the debates. but the most important thing is that we put a cndidate on top of that ticket that's going to be able to unify us and win and beat donald trump. that's what my numbers have shown. i've won in all those red districts before. and i believe we can do it. >> let me ask you this. could you carry the state of minnesota if you were the party of giving -- havinglt your hea care plan cover undocumented

immigrants, for instance? if you're thenominee, i know you didn't necessarily propose that, but as you know, that's t how they would to run against any democratic nominee. are you concerned that it paints picture of the democrats as too out the center for, say, the state of minnesota? >> you know, in general, our party is where the country is. we're the party of opportunity, not chaos. when you look at the discussion you just had on immigration, all i can think about is it was not this bad before. comprehensive immigration reform, which would bring the deficit down by $158 billion, you use a chunk of that money to help, as t republican congressman was saying, with those countries in the northern triangle. you let people seek asylum where they are in thos countries. you make sure you're not separating parents from their kids, something i would do in my first 100da as president. and then you bring in comprehensive immigration reform. i am convinced, chuck, that with my experience dealing with these

immigration bills now twice, i can gethis done in the first ye s. those wereupported by the cio.er, afo, we can get this done with a president that wants to get it done. >> as you know, the argument against you in the primary is going to come from the left that says, you know, u vote with president trump too much or you worked across theisle too much. some of these compromises are being painted as apitulations. you hear too often that the democrats have gone too far for the republicans to cut a deal. look, i'm not saying those are fairti csms. that's how you're going to be painted by some progressives. what do you tell them? >> i tell themok that i l people in the eye and i tell them the truth. that i'm honest about how we think we can -- >> does that mean your primary opponents are not telling them the truth when they say free college, or free this? >> there's a lot of people making promises, and i'm not going to make promises just to get elected. i am not running for chair of

the democratic national committee. i am running for president of the united states. and that means you bring people together and you find that common ground in our own party, and there are bold plans here. i want to double the pe willl grants. lp so many kids when you go up to 12,000 a year, double the eligibility up to $100,000 a family, where you can grants.y get those i want to move forward with a public option and finally take on the pharmaceutical companies that areoosting up the cost of insulin so regular people can't even afford it. those are big, bold things that done.t be and some of my colleagues, yes, they have -- i guess you can call them bigger and bigger promines. but i th what's most important to the people of america is we actuallyet those things done. >> let me ask you this about the back and forth between two of your opponents, senator kamala harris and former vice president joe biden. do you thinksenator harris' criticism of biden's record is fair? >> i think it is fair to talk

about the fact that if you're dealing with a racist or a segregationist as he was that you have to call them out. he has now apologized for not doing that at the time and apologized for his past statements on bussing. but you know what, i really want to move our country forward. what's happening right now with the african-american community when we still have public schools that are crumbling, heat not working in some of our schools in baltimore. that's why i came out with an infrastructure plan th includes our schools. that's why i think we need to support our public schools with higher teacher pay and that we need to put a bigger percentage of our federal budget into that and less giving away to the wealthy people. i think our tax bill that was just passed that i opposed gave way too much help to the people at the top. i called it all foam and no beer for the middle class.an i still by that. >> let me ask you this. at what point should a politician's past positions be

held account? what is the statute of limitations politically? what's fair game and wt isn't? when is it okay to switch your position and when isn't it? i know that's in the eye of the beholder. in politics, a is fair, period. >> i think people understand that over time you learn new things, you have differe views on things, you take a vote and you realize, you know what, now i've learned new things and it's not the same. buin a presidential race like this, with so many candidates, yes, you have to explain your past tes. it doesn't mean that every single person did every single thing right. your other alternative is to have somebody who has no experience at all and has no votes and has done nothing. i don't think the american people want that. they put someone in the white house that didn't have any kind experience in working with washington, and what do we have? chaos,gridlock, not moving on infrastructure, not working to bring the cost of prescription drugs down. so i think that experience,

while it always calls you on it sometimes, i think that's important. that's what i'd say about what i've done. >> senator amy klobuchar, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. stay safe on the trail. >> thanks. great to be on, chuck. when we come back on this july 4th holiday weekend, where liberals and conservatives like to go on vacation. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely. but allstate actually helps you drive safely... with drise. it lets you know when you go too fast... ...and brake too hard. with feedbac help you drive safer. giving you the power to actually lower your cost. unfortunately, it can't do anything about that. now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? sir, you're a broker. what do you charge for online equity trades? uh, i'll look into it. (phone rings) lisa jones! lisa: (on phone) hey carl, what are you charging me

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simple, right? om expect more fr your cloud. ibm cloud. welcome back. data download time. summer travel season is in full swing, and like almost everything else in our lives nowadays, how you spend your vacation days can say a about your political leanings. according toata from i simmons, self-described liberals are more likely to leave the united states or at least have the ability to. 57% of liberals have passports compared to 48% of self-described conservatives. then there's the difference in how ch group spendstheir down time. liberals are more likely to go to the beach by eight percentage points and more likely to

vadulge in fine dines. while conserves are more likely to go fishing or play golf. and when you travel within the united states, you might feel like youto run in people with your same political leanings. just look at the state people choose to visit. park county,wyoming, the so-called eastern gateway to yellowstone, sees visitors from mostlyib lal strongholds and big cities. denver, new york, minneapolis,ty salt lake ci compare that to branson, missouri, where visitors hail from springfield, missouri, kansas city, st. louis, little rock, and oklahoma c that's all to say when you take your vacations this summer, maybe it's time to mix things up. try to be a cultural tourist too. reach out to talk to someone across the political ideological spectrum. figure out why you disagree. maybe that can help bridge this bitterly divided country. >>when we come back, "end game." sorry seems to be the hardest word. joe biden said it, sort of. now what? that's next.

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>> announcer: "end game," y brought toou by boeing, proudly supporting our nation's veterans. now, was i wrong a few weeks ago to somehow give the impression to people tt i was praising those men who i successfully opposed time and again? well, yes, i was. i regret it. should that misstep define 50

years of my record, for fighting for civil rights, racial justice in this country? i hope not. >> he did it in south arolina, non accident. kimberly atkins, enough? >> well, we'll see. what exact did he apologize for? he seemed to apologize for giving somehow the impression that he praised people who -- >> the old i apologize you were offended? >>x etly. so he actually did give praise to segregationists. i think he needs to be forceful with'st. i think itbout a week and a half too late. but it's something he does have to do. you're right, he's in south carolina speaking in front of a largely african-american group of people. that's who he's concerned aboutt particularly that last election. but i think that his biggest liability isn't just the fact that he has to explain his e record. becais is coming again. he's going to have to do this with the crime bill, with his work on senate jiciary with anita hill. this is not the last time it will happen. he said he was

this and that he allowed his opponents to successfully make him look like this relic of the past when the democrats are fighting over what the future looks like. >> so clearly he needed to neutralize this. obviously it took 2 1/2 weeks for him to be able to do that here. but the bottomtline is tha biden, the challenge for him is to show he can spaharply respon in moments like this. i thought what was most strikint about whe did yesterday, the apo apology and also for the first time he invoked barack obama, having been the vice president . to barack obam this is what his own campaign aides, this is what other democratic strategists said he should have done from the very beginning. so where was that on the debate stage tnen? >> o of my favorite tweets was at one point during one of biden's early speeches, remember biden was famous for rying abouty giuliani, now andre for. >> it's not just his history. it's that we're in a moment

where we're talking about race right now. that is not going away from the democratic party, even if you just look at the makeup of all the teem who are going to be on stage again for the cnn debates. he needs to only have an answer for all of his positions, all the things that you talked about, he needs to know and be able to tap into, if you will, feel people's pain about where are we going to go forward in this country when it comesto this issue. other than saying, hi, i was the vice president to barack obama, that means people are going to be able to continue to attack him. >> and jonah, how much of this is a little bit of style as well? meaning, people are looking at joe biden, you're struggling to deal with your record among people who are eventually going to support you. how are you going tona handle do trump? >> i think that's right, which is why i think in some ways he would be better advised to show so righteouson indignati, maybe performative, but just to say, wait, are you telling me barack obama picked a racist as his vice president? how dare you.d anst like drop it like that. >> interesting. >> at the same time, and i think

yoghre absolutely ri there's literally no democrat who could -- who is biden's age who is activethe '70s and '80s that would not have these problems. bill clinton would have these problems. he talked about william fulbright being his mentor. >> they kept nominating people from the south. you know, it is interesting, this d -bate aboutand i got into it a lot with amy klobuchar. here's what was written. all these positions would be serious liabilities in a general election. what's more, none of them would appear to stand any plausible chance of enactment in the next administration. they're not laying the groundwork for sweeping new progressive agenda they can pass in 2020. kimberly, i thought the most interesting line from amyha klobucwas when she said i'm not running to be chairman of the democratic national committee. pushing back objen the left witt

criticizing. >> that was very salvvy. i think we're seeing this debate playing out in the primary. this is happening really in the democratic party. it's real. you have a lot of candidatesimn a really rtant election year. so it's playing out publicly. this idea that democrats are somehow beating each other up or moving too far to the left to really that's going to hurt them in the general, i'm still skeptical of that. >> what if the republican party minated donald trump in 2016? they'd never win the general election. >> right. and if you lffk at the diences between all 20 of these candidates, the difference between all of them compared to the diffetween any one of them s donald trump is much smaller. >> let me put up those polls from "the washington post" this morning. very quickly, matchups between trump and the democrats. big lead, biden leads by ten. everybody else would be margin of error. sanders, harris, warren, buttigieg. shows you the strength of biden, or at least a brand of generic democrat. maybe that's what biden is right now. ec it also shows you the strength of namenition and frankly being the vice president

to barack obama. it's really early. i have a team of people who's at essence fest right now. mayor pete is speaking this morning. they were talking about payor pete down in new orleans. d me.oducer tex she was like, mayor pete's black roblem is no one knows who he i get the polls are early. let's figure that out. >> he has a lot of moy, by the way, to introduce himself now. more so than anybody else. >> exactly. >> and introducing himself down there today. >> we shall see. thank you, guys. at a great independence day weekend panel. i really appreciate it. and thank you, all, for watching. that's all we have for today. enjoy the rest of your july 4th holiday. remember, we'll be back next week because i it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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this morning a billionaire with ties to some of the world's most powerful people will face a judge in connection with charges related to sex trafficking and girls as young as 15 >> iran is one step closer to developing a nuclear weapon, as president trump issues a new warning. >> california residents remain rattled after annx aty-filled weekend following a major earthquake and aftershocks that have left many with ptsd >> the u.s. women are the champions of the world, as the ladies bring home the cup ahead ofay wednesdke