nation." 15 days until they start voting in iowa and 23 until they start voting in new hampshire. and it's getting feisty on the campaign trail. donald trump and ted cruz have stopped being friendly. >> finally went off the wagon a little bit went a little crazy. it's very -- a lot of nervous energy. >> for whatever reason donald doesn't react well. when he's going down in the polls. >> dickerson: on democratic side surprising surge of bernie sanders continues causing hillary clinton to scramble we caught up with bernie sanders in

>> what will amount to, will >> dickerson: not if hillary clinton can help it we'll hear from clinton this morning as she prepares to confront sanders in tonight's democratic debate in charleston. check in with marco rubio and john kasich both battling it out to stay alive after the voting begins. all coming up on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. breaking news this morning, three americans including washington reporter jason, part of the prisoner exchange with iran announced on the day sanctions were lifted on that country as part of the iranian nuclear deal. and this video shows three of houston. this is a swap that's already sparked controversy on the campaign trail. we start with former secretary of state, hillary clinton, who is in charleston this morning. good morning, secretary clinton. after this prisoner exchange

if you take an american hostage, barack obama will cut a deal with you whether it's bergdahl now what he's done with iran. your reaction to that? >> well, i think it's just typical political rhetoric, overlooks some very basic, important issues, number one, we always try to get americans back who are unjustly held. i certainly did when i was secretary of state. and when i was a senator i advocated for the bush administration to do the same for people who have been unlawfully held in foreign counsel trees. secondly, the important news here is that the iranian agreement to put a lid on the nuclear weapons program of iran is being implemented. iranians have so far fulfilled their side of the bargain by destroying centrifuges, shipping

uranium out of their country, even making one of their plutonium reactors under construction no longer able to be ever used because they poured cement into it. so, the real issue here is, if you're committed to making the world safer and show strong american leadership you have to engage in patient, persistent diplomacy with people who are not your friends, they are on the other side of a lot of the issues and values that you hold very dear, that certainly true for the united states. >> dickerson: former fbi agent is still in iran, do you believe that the iranians know where he is and if so why wasn't he a part of this deal? >> well, i regret deeply that bob levinson was not on his way home either. i hope and expect that the iranians will continue to be pressed very, very hard to give up any information they have and

levinson to his home and family. >> dickerson: switching to the topic of gun control, you said bernie sanders should support the idea of lifting immunity block on gun manufacturers, now says he'll support the legislation you pushed him to. so hasn't he done what you wanted him to do? >> well, i am pleased that senator sanders has flip-flopped on legal immunity for gun makers and sellers, now i hope he will also join members of congress to change what's called the charleston loophole that enabled the killer in charleston to get the gun that he used to murder nine people at bible study here in mother emmanuel church, that's something else senator sanders supported that we need to change. so, now i'm calling on him to also flip flop in the right direction and sign on to legislation to change the charleston loophole. >> dickerson: you at once in 1939 when you were first lady

the senate finance committee a 25% tax on guns, you're not supporting that now or promoting that now. how have you evolved over the years in terms of your support for the second amendment? >> i do support the second amendment. that is always been understood. i just believe that like any amendment to our constitution there are reasonable steps that can be taken. we have reasonable restrictions on certain kind of speech or certain forms of assembly. for goodness sakes we ought to be smart enough and do so consistent with the constitution to have more gun safety measures to try to save some of the 3,000 lives that we lose to gun violence every single year. this is something that i have spoken out about. that i have advocated for right now. i think there is a consensus in the country on comprehensive background checks, closing the gun show loophole, closing the

reversing the immunity given to the gun industry, certainly prohibiting would-be terrorist on the no fly zone, that's the common sense approach that we should be boxing to achieve. >> dickerson: the stories out of flint, michigan, lead levels in the water have created an emergency there. senator sanders called for rick schneider, the governor to resign, what is your feeling? >> well, john, this is an issue i've been involved in now for couple of weeks. i am horrified by what happened in flint. i started calling for immediate action, calling for federal intervention, i sent two of my top campaign aides to meet with the mayor of flint as you may know, i appeared on show this past week and demanded that governor schneider ask for the help that michigan needs to deal with the horrible consequences that children and their families

i saw that governor schneider turned around within two hours finally asked for the help that he should have asked for some weeks ago. i don't want to get caught up in the political back and forth here, i want to help the people of flint. and i particularly want a comprehensive health analysis of what's hamed to these children, lead is a poison, it destroys your brain. it interferes with your learning and your behavior. whatever it takes for michigan and the federal government to come together to fema through health and human services, the epa, whatever it takes, we now have to fix a problem and help these kids and especially their health and education development probably for years to come. >> dickerson: topic of health care back at the national level, your daughter chelsea in which son said senator sanders universal health care plan will dismantle obamacare, dismantle children's health insurance programs and series of other things would dismantle.

taking into account that those things would be replaced by an actual plan that senator sanders has put forward? confusing because he hasn't put forward a plan. and the only way we know what it is he's advocating for comes from looking at the nine bills that he's introduced in the house and senate and congress. in those bills every kind of health care is rolled all up together and handed over to the state which bear a financial responsibility to match what the federal government provides in order to administer health care. so, it's not a traditional kind of single-payer system as i understand it. it is a state-based system kind of similar to medicaid, if you will. and i do think there are very legitimate questions that can be raised, because we don't have an up to date plan from senator

figure out what it would mean for everybody to be put into that new system. >> dickerson: senator, excuse me -- secretary clinton that may come up this evening when you're on stage. >> great to talk to you again, john. >> dickerson: now we turn to bernie sanders who we caught up with in his hometown of burlington, vermont. hillary clinton said because she understands wall street she told me this last week, regulate wall street like the nixon going to china. >> nixon going to china is exactly the opposite. hillary clinton somebody who received significant sums of >> dickerson: she went to wall street told them to put it out. >> you know what, cutting it out is not good enough.

paying a $5 billion for their duplicitous work on subprime mortgages. what the american people are see ing is huge bail out for wall street, while the middle class continues to disappear. >> dickerson: switch to taxes for a moment. your tax plan you haven't put out your rates for personal income, could be as high as 90%. >> that's a lie. trump said that over and over again. i don't want to shock you on this one, john. just because donald trump says it may not be exactly the truth. that happens to be total lie. let me talk about that. because we are probably put out more information on taxes than any other candidate in the race. what we are saying is, that we're going to end this outrageous position that allows big money interests like wall street firms, to park their profits in the cayman islands and other tax havens not in a given year. in a given year pay nickel in taxes, going to end that. wall street may not like it.

on wall street speculation so that we can make public colleges and universities tuition free and substantially lower interest rates on student loans. so we have already put out a number of tax proposals i believe more than any other candidate which will help us transform american sewed, demand that the wealthy and large corporations pay their taxes. but this is nonsense. >> dickerson: you've raised questions about hillary clinton for paid family medical leave what is your concern? >> here is the concern. she doesn't have a plan, that's the concern. >> dickerson: she said the same thing to you about taxes. still waiting to get your rates. >> but there's a difference, we have presented i think more specific tax proposals than any other candidate. but in terms of family and medical leave what is what you got. united states is the only major country on earth that does not guarantee paid family and medical leave.

senate, what it says we will guarantee three months paid family and medical leave, is it free, of course it's not free. we will -- cost of it will be about $1.61. a week for the average american worker. i think that's a pretty good invest: hillary clinton chooses not to support that legislation. >> dickerson: she has her own plan, her plan to tax people who -- >> no kidding? i had not seen that plan. >> dickerson: it's out there. >> it's not out there. dickerson: she'll take the money from taxing those people who benefited from the economic inequalities which sounds like bernie sanders plan. >> it's not a bernie sanders plan, doesn't go far enough. it's a vague idea. if you want something to be long lasting, the people have ownership of it, they know nothing is free, have to pay something for it. when you do something like vague idea, we'll tax the wealthy on this one. it could disappear tomorrow. >> dickerson: health care. when you hear chelsea clinton say that you want to dismantle

children's health insurance program, dismantle medicare, dismantle private insurance. >> millions of people out there with no health insurance at all. spending my entire life making sure that as many people as possible get health insurance, that is just unfortunate statement. that chelsea clinton made. affordable care act which i helped write, voted for, has done some good things, no question. but we have got to go beyond that. we've got to join the rest of the industrialized world, healthcare as a right we can save the middle class families thousands of dollars a year in the health care costs. >> dickerson: donald trump says unless he wins all of his efforts will be wasted. already had achievement? >> we started this campaign as you well know like 3% in the polls. we are now ahead in new iowa. i think we have good chance to win both those states. i think we have good chance to win this election. i think the reason that we are

sick and tired of status quo politics and economics. they want a president who has guts to stand up to the billionaire class and start representing working familiar glees. >> dickerson: when you were at state the union, that could be me up there? >> the thought did cross my mind. it's a very humbling experience, feeling. but we're running hard to win. we think we have a good chance at iowa and new hampshire. and we think we have good chance to what will amount to the, one of the great political upsets in modern history. >> dickerson: you just think about it that's it or start making plans? speech. not quite. it's a long way to go before we talk about inaugural speech. or state of the union speeches. >> dickerson: you have suggested you are the more electable democrat, what is it about you, more electable?

young people, to working class republicans, to democrats obviously, to independents. i think what we are seeing in the sanders campaign is a great deal of energy and excitement. it will translate into a large voter turn out, large voter turn out not only means winning the presidency it means recapturing the senate, doing well in the house, winning governor seats all over the country. >> dickerson: there's a perception you have weakness on foreign affairs is that something that you need to improve as a skill to be president or people just misinformed? >> i don't think i have a weakness on foreign affairs. is it true that hillary clinton was secretary of state for four years, of course. great deal of experience, obviously it does. but not just experience, it's judgment. i voted against -- not only against the war in iraq i helped lead the opposition. war. one of the worst foreign policy blunders in the modern history of the united states. you know what, judgment counts when you are talking about foreign affairs.

trump is pathological liar, why specifically? >> give you one example. when he goes around telling people that i want to raise their taxes bid 0%, that's a lie. never said that. it's not true. number two more important look. trying to divide this nation. he tells us that the mexicans who are coming in to this country are drug dealers, they're rapists, they're criminals, that's just a lie. even worse, he goes around saying i, donald trump, i saw on television thousands of muslims celebrating on 9/11 when the twin towers went down. that's a lie. there is no evidence, there was never anything on television. it never happened. he has not apologized. he is pathological liar. >> dickerson: thanks very much, senator sanders. our full conversation with bernie sanders is on our website at facethenation.com we'll back

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>> dickerson: turning to the republicans we spoke to marco rubio in sioux city, iowa. we asked him about the prisoner swap. >> they're not prisoners these people were hostages, none violated any real laws, in fact some weren't even charged one was a reporter, the other one was a pastor. they have done nothing. let me just say bob levinson still missing, we believe they know not being cooperative we should not forget him and his situation. going back to the point, these he'll were hostages. people america is releasing they were convicted in a court of law after due process of helping violate sanctions. the president is pardoned them in exchange for rees lease of wrong. proves once again that now nations and enemies of america around the world know that if there's a price for americans, if you take an american hostage, barack obama will cut a deal with you. whether it's bergdahl, what he did with the castro brothers and now iran.

but never should have been held prisoner. >> dickerson: what about the quick resolution of the ten sailors earlier last week, john kerry secretary of state said that is another instance which depp ploy ma see helped solve that faster than it would have in the past. >> . >> image fin they wandered into egyptian waters, there wouldn't have been anything going on there, an incident. they would have had their motor repaired sent back on their way instead of what happened, iran grabbed them, put them on their knee, hands behind their heads. forced them to apologize on video. made the female sailor wear a burka. filmed them in cap pivot in that room, all effort to show how powerful they are how weak we are and huge propaganda score. they are notarial lice or friends, ultimately they achieving what they wanted. to prove that if they wanted to they can grab american sailors and subject them to miss extreme.

main state of the union said, that with isis, when republicans say too grave a threat it plays right into their hands you said it's a clash of civilization. are you playing into their hands as president has charged? >> i think playing playing into their hands would be ignore reality of what isis has become. isis is not just some group of radicals on the back of pick up trucks. this is a group that's grown in both influence and sophistication, they have very sophisticated propaganda program that are recruiting foreign fighters. they have a sophisticated understanding of foreign immigration practices, you've seen how they have been able to insert people into europe, refugee crisis, there's group control significant territory in iraq and in syria. this is a serious threat. can we defeat them, absolutely, only if we have real war against them to find them and destroy them. if you capture any of them alive send them to guantanamo bay find out everything they know. >> dickerson: you said this threat has changed nature of the immigration debate. you said during the debate

was 24 months ago but during the immigration debate that you were very much of part of there were two amendments, one that dealt with visa over stays because of possible terrorists using that visa over stays another one about securing the border first before any kind of a deal. you voted against both of those, weren't people worried about security at the time and not just because of isis in terms of terrorist threats? >> let me correct you about those amendments because they had already been dealt with in other amendments, john cornin had one that i supported and cosponsor of largest border surge in american history. 20,000 new border agents. completing 700 miles of fencing as part that have there was a biometric entry-exit tracking system that is required to prevent visa over stays to identify people that evestayed, no where they were be able to remove them from the country. all of that was dealt with or about to be dealt with. >> dickerson: the threat is not --

we clearly have in the past always had terrorist groups that had an interest, but never had group like isis that has in depth understanding of foreign immigration practices, for example, we know that one of the killers in san bernadino entered the u.s. on fiance visa, something that most americans didn't know existed. that process broke down. we didn't have the refugee crisis that we're now facing. i've always had terrorist groups but even al qaeda some of the other groups that are out there are regionally based they strike at america as they have in the passion on different occasions but their focus was on the middle east. this is a group that has global ambitions, of conquering. flying the flack flag of isis over the white house. the isis situations is dramatically different from any other terror threat. the most active, sophisticated, well funded terrorist group we have ever confronted they need to be defeated either they win or we win. when i'm president we'll win this battle. >> dickerson: let me ask you about becoming president, a political question. there are a lot of people who are nervous about ted cruz, are

like to coalesce around one candidate. but there are lot of other candidates that you're competing with, why not just make the argument say, don't vote for anybody else because we'll split the vote, back me as an alternative to ted cruz and to donald trump. >> well, actually i've been saying now for awhile i believe i'm only one in the primary field that can unite the republican party which is critical. but also attract new voters who haven't voted for us in the past. but i believe i am best positioned to take our principles of conservatism and convince people that haven't voted for us in quarter century that we're a better choice. i know this, hillary clinton does not want to run against me, their attacks are constant from their campaign, i cannot wait to run against her if i'm our nominee we will defeat her turn this country around. >> dickerson: lot of people buying firearms recently, you bought one on christmas eve, why? >> well, first of all i'm not very home. those are one of the few days i was there.

my family, previously firearm holder as well this is additional one. gibb, i think many americans feel the same way. i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment, i have a right to protect my family if someone were to come after us, in fact if isis were to visit us or our community at any moment, last line defense between isis and my family is the ability that i have to protect my family from them or from a criminal or anyone else that seeks to do us harm. millions of americans people that way. >> dickerson: senator marco rubio, thank you. >> thank you. dickerson: we'll be right back. your path to retirement... may not always be clear. but at t. rowe price, we can help guide your retirement savings. for over 75 years, investors have relied on our disciplined approach to find long term value. so wherever your retirement journey takes you, we can help you

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>> dickerson: another physical shat candidate, john kasich is standing by.

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>> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. president obama appeared in the cabinet room this morning spoke about iranian nuclear deal implementation and prisoner exchange. >> as president i decided that a strong, confident america to add vans our national security by engaging directly with the iranian government. >> dickerson: we want to go to republican presidential candidate and governor john kasich who joins us now from columbus, ohio. governor, you talked about the importance of diplomacy. how do you evaluate this recent release of prisoners and in addition the ten sailors that

>> well, john, it's sort of funny i woke up this morning, it's interesting that i would be thinking about the iran deal as i was getting ready to come over here. the iran nuclear deal. i was sort of sick to my stomach about it because what is going to happen, iran is going to get a ton of money. this money they can use to spread a lot of trouble in the middle east, in fact there have been reports from some other arab counsel trees that they're more worried about the economic gains of iran than they are what they think potential development of a weapon. i've heard this from various people. look, i just think it was a terrible deal. that they did, in terms of the release i'm glad these people are out, but they were there on trumped up charges, you know that reporter who was held there for a very long time who every journalist in america said, was falsely taken, they trump up charges, it's a bad situation.

but, excuse me, we don't want to have the iranians grabbing people then try to get their own people out. we ought to focus now on this iran deal. john, my sense if i were president today i'd be meeting with everyone of our allies around the world and saying we're going to monitor this dealf they violate one crossed to one dotted i. we need to slap the sanctions back on. if they violate the deal money is going to talk some of these counsel trees are going to move forward and excuse iran that's just simply not a good development. it's a bad deal, period, end of story. >> dickerson: before briefly you don't think that diplomacy release here is beneficial result in all the negotiations that were put in, the argument that secretary kerry is making. >> look, the fact that they're communicating, these folks got released i guess could you make an argument like that.

who was arrested under trumped up charges. i was down at that white house correspondents dinner where every single speaker called on the president and iran to just get that gentleman out of there, they have. but the guy -- there was no business being held. where is the great victory here. it's for the families, i'm thrilled for the families that their relatives have been released but to say this was some great thing i think is overstating it by a long shot. >> dickerson: let's talk about pom particulars. moving up in new hampshire, are you going to win? >> i have three endorsements here within the last 24 hours of three significant newspapers in new hampshire. i'm running second in three out of four polls. i want to be a story, i just got to have john dickerson talking about me the day after the primary. if that happens then people are going to finally begin to hear me. right now i'm low in the national polls, people don't know me, but we're doing okay,

we got -- there's no question the greatest round game in that state of any campaign, maybe one of the greatest ground games they have seen in modern political times. people are everywhere. it's impressive. >> dickerson: national review, article saying you should maybe be donald trump's vice president shall pick what is that a sign of? you're in the conversation but think you should be his vice president? >> obviously people who have too much time on their hands. didn't have anything else to write about. >> dickerson: you're doing well in new hampshire, do you have the structure to be able to continue on, a long slog after new hampshire. >> we have people on the ground in south carolina, we've got people on the ground in nevada. trent lott in mission miss is my chairman. greg harper the congressman. i have the governor in alabama. we're doing well in other southern states, we're on the ballot now in over 30 states. and, john, some point it's going to go to illinois, michigan,

who do you think is going to win there? i think we will move forward and, look, people didn't think i was going to get in. didn't think i'd make the debate. didn't think i'd make the money, look what happens. we're like the little engine that can. keep an eye on us and if we come out of new hampshire as a story, i'm just going to tell you, i believe i'll be the nominee. >> dickerson: i want to ask you about something, governor nikki haley her response to the state of the union, today we live in time of threats like few others during anxious time it can be tempting to follow the call. we must resist that temptation. what was your reaction to that? >> loved it. loved her comments. the other thing is, john, i don't know if you noticed the debates i travel around and people say, you know, you're the adult, one that makes sense, you're the one with the experience. how do we get you more attention, how do we get you more time. in this campaign i'm very proud of it. i'm proud of it because we're

you know, what happens today in american politics is that if you don't yell or say something really extreme, the media ignores you. so i said one little funny thing about bernie sanders i said, you know, bernie is. no knee. that got more attention than everything else i said in the debate. you know what, at the end, the people themselves they do good analysis. that's why we're rising in new hampshire. that's why we're going to do so well. >> dickerson: okay. senator kasich, a little engine, we'll see you at the depot. >> governor. stop downgrading me. >> dickerson: i apologize i got senators coming and going over here. thanks, we have lot more coming up. >> i might start talking about bob schieffer if you keep it up, dickerson. >> dickerson: all right, governor.

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j joining us for the analysis and united states robin wright, the wilson center here in washington she's also contributor for "the new yorker." and cbs news foreign affairs correspondent margaret brennan is also with us. robin, start with you, two big deals happened yesterday. coordinated, not coordinated, release of the prisoners and the lifting of the sanctions. >> well, two and a half years ago the united states initiated diplomacy with iran on the controversial nuclear program. at every session they brought up the cases of the americans imprisoned in iran after a year of getting no place they realized they better establish a secret second channel with the different set of players.

members of the nuclear team didn't know about it. it was supposed to be a parallel track but to move at their own pace. in the end one influenced momentum of the other they came to fruition at the same time. >> dickerson: margaret, the sanctions have been lifted, now the swap has happened. where are -- where is the united states now with respect to the deal but also relationship with iran. >> that's the big question. who other than john kerry can speak to the iranians right now. there are no relations with iran this is really in so many ways a test case. let's she how this deal plays out, if inspections are unfettered if over the next ten years all iranians do what they have promised to do. but it's really a question of, you look at this two ways. one, iranians have made a business of hostage taking you could argue that has paid off to their benefit. secret channel with iran started in the first place over three hikers who were taken prisoner many years ago.

hundred at that. >> and john kasich. this is a triumph of the moderates in iran really persuading the supreme leader that this is a track they should pursue. the thing if you go with that argument it's hard to conclude that thought at this point because this was not ideological deal. this was economic choice by iran. it was kind of too hard to tell yet if this is really a new age. it's certainly a new stage that we're at in u.s.-iranian relations. >> dickerson: secretary kerry when this deal was announced we're going to continue to be hard on iran on other issues as we ever have been. well, this question of testing missiles, intercontinental ballistic missiles from iran what is the test there, to see if the united states being as hard on them as they said they would be after this deal was agreed to. >> iran conducted missile tests in october and november which were in violation of the u.n. resolution. as a result of the united states today poe posing sanctions for those missile test.

move into a different era, we do want to clean the deck on our past and disarm iran from most deadly weapon in the world. they have made progress on that front but united states message we're going to continue to be tough and we will impose new sanctions when warns it. that's what they have done. >> dickerson: margaret, what is the reaction in the region when this deal was signed there was a lot of republican saying that, israel is going to make react, what do we know about that reaction? >> well, up to this point argument about piece of paper. now the deal has to play out. and so this is going to be the test case over whether those arguments about iran sort of getting the payday, which iran only 30 billion of 100 billion is going to be liquid, not necessarily the payday that some would argue they're getting.

money is going to be invested in other ways for iran. so, it's going to be sort of wait and see. but there is some truth to the argument that whether it's saudi arabia, israel, whether it's others, they are less worried about the nuclear program than they are about empowerment of iran to continue to interfere and that is their problem for the united states. it is interesting how white house say this week what happens with syria is another test for iran, can they be helpful on the diplomacy to end the civil war in syria which they are direct players in on the ground. so that is the next sort of test. but still unclear, when president obama leaves office what is the relationship that united states will have with iran. >> dickerson: and who will wick pope john paul relationship who seconds. former research assistant of yours one of those released. >> yes, he worked for me in 2009, a young man who spent many

iraqi kurdistan, he had been to iran on vacation thought it was interesting, he learned bit of farsi in afghanistan wanted to go back to take intensive language class. was just finishing up his four month course when he was picked >> dickerson: thank you robin, great piece of the new yorker. margaret, thank you also for helping us understand this.

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we bake it in store every day with pride with some publix. where shopping is a pleasure. >> dickerson: we're back with our panel. tavis smiley on pbs and has new book out, the covenant with black america, ten years later. michael gerson is a columnist for the "washington post." we're also joined by molly ball of "the atlantic." and washington bureau chief of seib. set the stage for the democrats having debate in charleston, set it up for us. >> we're in new phase of this race. we have two, there's a national race with hillary clinton still very good shape. we have poll she's leading points. but state races in iowa and new hampshire in the short term

national picture their bernie sanders is basically evened thing up they have to fight. i don't think hillary clinton wanted to get into fights with bernie sanders she wants that energize base that she represents to be with her in few months within she presumably gets the nomination. now she has no choice. they will argue about wall street, and be arguing about gun control, who is tougher on gun controls, litmus test issues for that base that bernie sanders talks to all the time. >> dickerson: is it close because of something bernie sanders has done or something hillary clinton has not done. >> yes. i think it's both of those things. i think you have, number one, an attempt to coronate -- especially when democratic base is today. the democratic base is in much different mood than it was eight years ago when they were just hoping to get rid of george w. bush. this is a real sort of rising lib balance tide in america, there's really -- real sense

agenda, bernie sanders has become the sort of unlikely mess eneverything for that. in way that he didn't expect, in a way that i didn't expect. and it has to do with hillary's deficiencies and what bernie is offering and be consistent message that he represents having talked about these issues for decades. >> dickerson: do you think there's something hillary clinton should have done? she's at the stage getting lot of second guessing articles appearing in the "washington post" and "new york times." something she should have done, seen this coming and taken on sanders earlier or something? >> i wonder how she must feel in 2008 she was -- in 2016 now about old white guy from the left. didn't see it coming either way. what molly said a moment ago, that she's out of step in some records with the electorate, bernie sanders tapped into something around the issue of poverty, income equality, economic immobility. what she should dove done

i got in trouble when i suggested asking the question whether or not she ought to be challenged we thought this was going the to be coronation as opposed to election. i want her to be challenged. number one, make her a better candidate in the general, number one. number two, might make her a little less hawkish in her policy positions. number three, bit more progressive on the issues that she ought to be addressing i'm glad that bernie made -- black voters have to decide this democratic, you love the fact that you vote matters, people are fighting over you. >> dickerson: more progressive but more hawkish. bernie sanders says he's the electable candidate in the general election. republicans i talked to the candidates say this if they ran against bernie sanders, we win all 50 states, what is your assessment? >> i agree with that. this would be very much a moment over in britain, the labor party

to vote against blairism. eject the middle ground positioning. if democrats were to do -- but i think interesting thing about hillary clinton how poorly she's doing among young voters, among young women voters which is just extraordinary. she's losing in large numbers, millennial voters to sanders. she's got some real problem. >> dickerson: molly, secretary clinton would like debate to be about guns. is bernie sanders who has shifted his position just in the last few days on this question of immunity, is he in trouble on that issue? does she have an opportunity there? >> i this think she's put him in a very if you have spot on this issue. it's clearly, political ploy but effective, because this is the one issue where bernie sanders is significantly out of step with that liberal base that he otherwise so in tune w. he facing impossible choice.

cake his position he's had for long time there by get rid of his aimage for consistency and being ideological rather than political or stick with the position that's very unpopular ish utah democrats care about. they get energized around this issue of gun control that they sort of put in the deep freeze for the past decade because of the thought that it was hurting them in rural america. and so given the choice between as hillary said earlier on this show, flip flopping to the right position, or sticking with an unpopular position finally gave in. that's been very interesting. you'll see her nail him on that by saying, look, this man who you see is so pure is just another politician on this issue. >> dickerson: and bernie sanders street. >> exactly. as we did story in the journal yesterday the difference between them is that both want to go after wall street but bank wants to do it with a mall lot and she

she's saying, let's regulate smarter, dodd frank plus, all the smart things, she's got the ten point plan he's got the one point plan. this happens to be year where the one point plan seems to be have been. >> you remember last democratic this. she did not have a good answer that's why she came back to the 9/11. >> if the question is who w.h.o. is more anti-wall street. she didn't choose to go back represent arkansas she represented new york state. and the u.s. senate. those are her people. she is associated with them, she is going to have to move to other issues in order to win the debate. >> dickerson: ask you question about your book and this lead in the water in flint, michigan, there is a sentence here chapter nine assuring environmental justice for all. it reads if a community happens to be poor, black or of color it receives less protection than does an affluent white community. flint has majority african american community, do you think that is what is happening there?

are politically, economically, socially disenfranchised forced to live in certain pockets, this is precisely what happens. seems like after thought when you raise the issue that something is wrong with the water people don't take you seriously. so on the environment, on health, on education, on some of the other issues african americans and poor people continue to lag behind. this book points out that in the last ten years, black people have lost ground in every major economic indicator category. every major category, black voters, the president's most loyal constituency lost ground. environment is one of those issues. environmental racism real we'll see these cases come up more and more, we see it in a community out in california, but in poor communities this is an old story, it's making national news right now, timing is right, wrong, but right in terms of the presidential election. but these things happen all the time, this kind of exposure. >> dickerson: maybe they will in the debate tonight. let's switch over to the

michael gerson, the trump and cruz friendship has gone through dissolution. where do you think that fight right now? >> well, i think unfortunately from my perspective donald trump had his best debate. there's very little question about that. particularly on this question of values, he bested ted cruz who left in the split screen clapping for trump, which was assertion of dominance. that is engaged now, lot of republicans, however, think of this as the iran-iraq war. they want them both. someone in third lane that can challenge these two very developed constituencies right now. >> dickerson: quite crowded. >> and that's big problem that the establishment people around this town are worried about which is to say, maybe marco rubio will emerge or chris christie or john kasich but

other up right now. meanwhile ted cruz and donald trump proceed down the path. >> somebody has to emerge. we all have to say, this is in politics, that republicans can continue to win gubernatorial races, congressal races but will continue to vehicles them if they can't find way to expand their base and cruz and donald trump do not expand the base. some regard much to do about nothing. >> one final point. we have to remember this this pack tougher like all these can change rad idly once voters start having a say. the two weeks before new hampshire and iowa and two weeks after can look quite different. we never are quite sure how. idea to the point about expansion of the party. there is race going on between republican candidates and nikki haley gave response which she said, very warm things about undocumented workers, saying they shouldn't be treated

anger taking over too much. it seemed like republican party was sending a message to its own party. >> it really -- was really profound to see the president in the end of his state of the union saying that we shouldn't listen to these voices calling us to tribalism and so on. then the republican response, the official response not just random politician sounding the same note. there is a sense in which the professional political class collectively is panicked by the forces that they see trump having unleashed that they see cruz also sort of riding along with. cruz is extremely well positioned here and i am not convinced that trump actually won that exchange with cruz in the debate. because the goodwill that ted cruz has with sort of talk radio faction that's been giving donald trump the free pass going to rep him now that they are in conflict. >> dickerson: last 20 seconds to you. >> concentrate on the horse race element, big issues at stake.

to be the party of exclusion. really deciding whether this is normal, whether this is acceptable. i think that's where we vote. >> dickerson: thanks, michael. thanks to all of you. we'll be right back. the intelligent, all new audi q7 was engineered... ...to help sense danger before you do. because when you live to innovate, you innovate to live. the all-new audi q7. a higher form of intelligence

>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. we leave you today with someone. bei bei panda who made public debut here in washington last week. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh