make it a great sunday. mr. trump will join me in a few minutes on this that issue. we'll start with the democrats where a more traditional split has developed. think clinton/obama, gore/bradley. if the clinton folks think they've seen this before,

clinton's big lead in iowa and a big lead in new hampshire seems to have vanished. again, the handwringing among her supporters have begun over what's going wrong. if that weren't enough, "the new york times" is reporting thatt michael bloomberg is again considering a run at the white house in part because of clinton clinton's troubles. this morning there is some good news, though, for clinton. she won the endorsement of the ," as did marco rubio on the republican side, but one would argue the "des moines register" will probably have a greater impact among democratic caucusgoers. joining me is the former secretary of state, hillary clinton. welcome back. >> thank you, chuck. good to talk to you this morning. >> you got it. let me start with this. your opponent is 74 years old. calls himself a socialist. started this campaign with next to zero name recognition. you have 38 of 44 u.s. senators endorsing you, 12 of 18 democratic governors. he has zero. what happened?

save me the we always knew this was going to be a close race answer. >> i think it's actually good for the debate that we're having that there is so much interest i feel on my side and i know so does senator sanders on his. we have a big choice to make. it's exciting. i had a great couple of events yesterday. i'm puring the opportunity to reach every single voter in iowa and we'll see what happens. i feel good about where we are. we'll find out a week from tomorrow. if you look at the differences between senator sanders and myself, we c c't wait to make progress on t myriad of issues we'll be facing in the next administration. i want to buildn the promise president obama has made and he has a different approach. that's what voters are trying to determine, which they prefer.

about passion, enthusiasm. something in "the new york times" from gaylyl collins. hillary clinton is the candidate of the aging democratic establishment whose supporters pray for a low turut on the election day. it is not the kind of image that makes you go whistling into the election booth. by the way, she wrote that in 2008. she wrote that in 2008. is there a deja vu happening here? >> no, there isn't. i can only react to what i'm doing, the responsns we have from people. i feel great we have the level of enthusiasm that we do and we also have a really good team on the ground that has been working for months to make sure it's not just here today, gone tomorrow. but people are involved. they are really reached out to and we believe they're going to

the speculation and all the rest of it is entertaining, i admit that. but we're going to keep moving forward and do the work we think is going to be successful on february 1st. >> are youorried that experience, your long resume, is not an asset in this wild year? >> no, i'm#really not. i think at the end of the day people take this vote seriously. they know they're voting for who they prefer to be the next president and commander in chief and i believe that when i am out there talking with people about what we have to go up against here at home, get economy working for everybody, not just those at the top, begin to raise incomes, which hasn't happened, deal with health care, going from 90% coverage, which is what we have under the affordable care act now, to 100% and i lay out what i intend to do to get there, i can only tell you they see people nodding, i know people are signing up as they leave my events.

it's very personal and people look and they think, can we imagine this person to be president and commander in chief? and because of my experience, particularly my years as secretary of state working with president obama, i think that's somethininthat people really take into account. >> what are you willing to -- you know, it's interesting, your husband used a lot of political capital -- you and your husband used a lot of political capital to do health care. president obama, auably, used all of his political capital to get health care passed. what is it? what is the one issue you are going to be willing to use all your political capital to focus on? you and i both know you basically have one big shot at one big issue. what is it that you're willing to use all your political capital to do with? >> welel chuck, first of all, i don't agree with you on that. i think there are several really important issues, health care being one of them. we've got to get costs down. i met a man on friday who no

hiv medication. i met a woman yesterday whose bill she has taken for 25 years has gone from a couple hundred for $14,000 for the same amount of the drug. that really hits my heart. i know what people are going through. i'll use whatever tools i can to get us lower prices, cap prescription drug companies an take that on. but i'm also going to focus on the economy because unless we create more jobs and get incomes rising and fix the tax system so that it doesn't in so many ways tilt toward the wealthy, people are not going to get ahead, they're not going to feel they're getting ahead and they're going to still believe the governmeme is rigged against them which is bad for our democracy. >> as you know, your opponent senator sanders has been hitting you on wall street contributions and including some paid speeches yoyodid for goldman sachs among other banks. let me ask you this -- why do you think one of these big banks paid you over $200,000 for a

>> well, look, i gave speecdes to a wide array of groups from health care groups to auto dealers and many, many more, and i think what they were interested in because what we talked about was the world coming off of four years as secrcrary of state in a complicated world, people were interested in what i saw, what i thought, they ked questions about matters that were on their minds. a lot of interest in the bin laden raid, how such a tough decision was made and what i advised the president. you know, i think americans who are doing business in every aspect of the economy want to know more about the world. i actually think it's a good conversation for people to be having. >> you don't think they expect anything in return? >> absolutely not. you know, first of all, i was a senator from new york. i took them on when i was senator. i took on the carried interest loophole. i took on what was happening in the mortgage markets. i was talking about that in 2006.

and i'll tell you, chuck, it's really interesting to me that now karl rove has taken money from the financial interest influence democrats not to why? ask yourself why. he knows number one i know what must be done and number two i know how to get it done to make sure that wall strtrt writ large, not just the banks but the investment banks, hedge funds and everybodelse, no longer can wreck our economy the wathey did in 2008. >> two more quick questions. the "des moines register" editorial, in praising you and your experience, did bring up the e-mail issue as one of those things that they're frustrated with how you responded to it. let me just ask you this question. last week you were asked about the fbi investigation. are you concerned? you said you haven't been contacted by them. are you concerned this investigation is taking g o long? that it's putting an extra cud over your candidacy and until it gets behind you, you're going to have these issues and michael bloomberg even cited it as a reason why he's thinking about

>> no, i'm not concerned because i know what the facts are. i never sent or received any material marked "classified." i cannot control what the republicans leak and what they are contending. and i thought it was interesting, chuck -- you'll as a political observer understand why -- back a couple months ago kevin mccarthy spilled the beans that the benghazi investigation was all about bringing me down, something that i suspected but i went ahead, testified for 11 hours, answered all their questions, and even lhey admitted there was nothing new. and now senator grassley shows up at a trump rally yesterday in iowa. he's the chairman of the judiciary committee who has -- and his staff have been behind and pushing a lot of these stories, and announces he's there for the simple reason, to defeat me. i can't control what t t republicans are doing. but i know what the facts are and i will j jt keep putting them out there. this is something that i think

happened and i know it will be over a resolved at some point. but i can't control what the republicans and their allies do. but i think it's important voters know what they're doing. >> and michael bloomberg? your reaction to his potential candidacy? >> he's a good friend of mine, and i'm going to do the best i can to make sure that i get the nomination, and we'll go from there. >> so you're not worried about him getting in? >> well, the way i read what he said was if i didn't get the nomination he might consider it. we, i'm going to relieve him of that and get the nomination >> madam secretary, stay safe on we'll catch up with you soon. >> thank you, good to talk to you. >> now let's turn to her chief sanders, who's also on the cam >> now let's turn to her chiefef opponent, senator bernie sanders, who's also on the cam trail in dubuque, iowa. senator, good morning to you. i want to start with getting your reaction. this. your colleague, senar claire

ready. essektially "they won't touch him right now because they can't wait to run an ad with a hammer and a sickle." what do you say to her? >> well, what i say to her is that if she would look at the matchups taking place between bernie sanders and donald trump right now she would find that we were 15 points ahead of them nationally, that in states -- tossup states, battleground states like iowa and new hampshire or even further ahead of them, that i would very much look forward to a race against donald trump, a guy whw does not want to raise the minimum wage but wants to give hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top two-tenths of one percent who thinks wages in america are too high and who thinks that climate change is a hoax invented by the chinese. chuck, there would be nothing more in this world that i would like to take on donald trump. we would beat him and we would beat him badly. >> but as you know, a lot of democrats are concerned and not a single one of them has

read through that. not a single democratic senator has endorsed your candidacy. not a sing democratic governor has endorsed your candidacy. what does that tell you? >> it tells me that we are taking on the political establishment, we're taking on the economic establishment, the financial interest in this country and we're taking on the corporate establishment. that is what is unique about this race: that, in fact, we are trying to make a political revolution bring millions of people into the political process that washington and all of these p liticians have significantly turned their backs on. so yes we have the establishment pporting secretary clinton. that's not a secret. but the reason that our campaign is generating so much interest and enthusiasm is people think it's time that we take on the establishment. take on wall street, take on big money interests. and that's why i believe we're

>> well, you have been calling for political revolution and there have been some critiques% over it, though, that you're sort of narrow in where you call for revolution. ta-nehisi coates, one of the re respected thinkers in the civil rights movement these days wrote in the "the atlantic" why aren't you fororeparations for having to -- because of slavery for african-americics when you're calling for economic justice on so many other levels? why do you stop short on that issue? >> well, for the same reason that barack obama has, the same reason i believe that hillary clinton has. that is that it's absolutely wrong and unacceptable that we have so much poverty in this country and it is even worse in the african-american community. that african-american kids between 17 and 20 who graduate high school have unemployment rates and underemployment rates of 51%. that 36% of african-american children are living in poverty.

got to address. and my intention as president of the united states is to be very aggressive in dealing with those issues. to put our kids to work rather than see them go to jail. to improve our schools. that's what we have to do and i think that's what the american people want. >> i understand that. but t u didn't understand the question why you were -- why you weren't in favor of reparations. >> well, again, the same reason that the president is not t d i think hillary clinton is not. >> what is that reason? >> we have got to invest in the future. what we have got to do is address poverty in america, something that very few people talk about andspecially poverty in the african-american community and the latino community. if y/u look at my record, and if you look at my agenda, raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour, focusing on highates of youth unemployment, i think our candidacy is the candidacy talking to the issues of the african-american community. >> well, let me ask you, though,

and some will say okay, he talking about mar economic justice but an african-american raises his hand and says can't get that through congress, can't deal with this because it's politically very difficult, a lot of your other plans will be politically difficult if not impossle. >> well, look, this is what i think: that is looking at politics today as a zero-sum approach. and what i am try dog in this country is say, you know what? in the last election, 63% of the american people didn't vote. 80% of young people didn't vote in the midterm elections. that is why the rich get richer and that is why billionaires were able to buy elections. what we are trying to is do the say that in american democracy maybe it's a radical idea but congress should represent working families and the middle-class rather than just wealthy campaign contributors. so, chuck, what i am trying to do now is change the dynamics of american politics, bring millions of young people,

up and fight for theirights. when you that, yes, we can raise the minimum wage, we can create jobs. we can make public colleges and universities tuition free. that is what we have got to do. >> in 1988, you talked about a major difference between yourself and, at the time, the sort of insurgent candidate on the democratic party, jesse jackson. and you simply said "jesse believes that serious social change is possible within the democratic party. i don't." do you still believe that? >> well, obviously not, i'm running for president of the united states in the democratic party. and, by the way, when you talk about my relationship to the african-american community, check out how many white public officials, elected officials, supported jesse jackson in 1988. i did. and he won my state of vermont, he came to vermont, jesse jackson is a friend of minin i thought he ran a brilliant campaign. but what my view is right nono and the decision that i made as the longest-serving independent in the history of the united

are going to win this race, we have to do it within the decratic primary process, that's what we're doing. >> and if you win, apparently you're going to have a third candidate in the race. michael bloomberg has voweif you are on your way to the nomination, he's running as an independent. what's your reaction? >> well, my reaction is that there will be -- if donald trump wins and mr. bloomberg gets in, you'll have two multibillionaiais running for president of the united states against me. d i think the american people don't want to see our nation move toward an oligarchy where billionaires control the political process. i think we'll wiwithat election. >> bernie sanders, i'll leave it there. from dubuque, iowa, we'll see you next week, i imagine, as we head to iowa to find out what happens. thank you, sir, stay safe on the trail. >> thank you. when we come back, trump versus cruz, each guy knows the other is the obstacle to the

donald trump joins me next. welcome to the world 2116, you can fly ross town in minutes or across the globe in under an hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought thatatas amazing, you just wait. i have asthma... ...one of many pieces in my life. so when my asthma symptoms kept coming bk on my long-term control medicine, i talked to my doctor and founa missing piece in my asthma treatment. once-daily`breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo opens up airways to help improve breathing for a full 24 hours. breo contains a type of medicine

from asthma problems and may increase the risk of hospitalizationn children and adolescents. breo is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on a a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. once your asthma is well controlled, your doctor will decide if you can stop breo and prescribe a different asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo could be a missing piece for you. see if you're eligible for 12 months free at mybreo.com. welcome back, as tight as the democratic contest is, it's the republican race that's become to resemble the end of a quentin tarantino movie, think "reservoir dogs" where everybody winds up shooting everybody else. jeb bush spent millions attacking marco rubio. rubio has blasted chris christie with super pac adds. christie has questioned rubibi's

donald trumpmp ridiculed bush for being low energy. bush called trump a jerk. and then the non-aggression pact between trump and t@d cruz crashed with each attacking the other. in fact,there's the latest trump ad going after cruz on immigration. . >> sounded like you wanted the bill to pass? >> of course i wanted the bill to pass. what -- my amendment to pass. what my amendndnt did -- >> you said the bill. >> -- is take citizenship off tt table but it doesn't mean -- it doesn't mean i supported the other aspects of the bill. >> and here's a cruz ad hitting trump on greed. >> i think imminent domain is wonderful. >> it made him rich, like when trump colluded with atlantic city insiders to bulldoze the home of an elderly widow. trump won't change the system, he's what's wrong with it. joining me on the phone right now is donald trump. mr. trump, welcome back to "meet the press." >> od morning, and i have to tell you, his ad is wrong

i wanted to get the house to build a major building that would have employed tremendous numbers of people but when the woman didn't want to sell ultately i said forget about it. so he's got me bulldozing down a house, i never bulldozed it down. it's false advertising. >> all right, i tnk the accusation was that's what you wanted to do -- >> no, the accusation was i wanted to and did do it. you know, if you didn't have eminent domain, you would haven't highways, the keystone e pipeline because they need it if it's going to be built. you wouldn't have roads, schools,hospitals, i mean, i don't love imminent domain but you need it or you don't have a country. >> this race between you and ted cruz, hent wants to make it about who's the real conrvative. here's what he said yesterday when it comes to you and conservatism. i want to get you to react to it. here he is. >> 0perhaps one of the reasons that the washington establishment is rushing so quickly behind donald trump is

he gave $100,000 to the clinton foundation. he's actively supported hillary clinton as a political candidate. suppted chuck schumer, he supported andrew cuomo, he supported emanuel eded rahm emanu so they know he will cut a deal. >> i know you've embraced the idea of cutting a deal but some conservatives fear you're not a conservative, that 60 years you weren't a conservative, you've only been one the last eight or nine. >> most conservatives love me or i wouldn't be having the poll numbers -- fox juststame out, their numbers arar through the roof. i would haven't the poll numbers i have that. i am a conservative but i get along with people. ted cnnot get along with people at all. the biggest problem he has, he's a nasty guy, nobody likes him. notne republican senator. he works with them everyday. not one republican senator endorsed ted cruz. when you think of it, that's impossible to believe. not one. >> i'm curious. you've been theying into cruz

for six months you talked about how much you liked ted cruz. >> he was very nice to me and i kept saying when is it going to happen, ted? i was waiting because i want to counterpunch. i don't want to be the first one. and during the debate which everyone said i won he got nasty and stard hitting me and i hit him back. anything i said was okay to him. anything i said and he was really -- look i had people that have been terrific on the stand. i like the candidates on a personal basis. during that period of time i sasad come on, ted, when is it going to happen? i understand ted, ted is a nasty guy who is not a very well-liked person. >> it sounded like -- you said he's the nominee. is that true? >> i talked about the fact that i'm not sure that i can vote for him because as you know, he has a major issue. in fact, illinois is looking at it seriously. i don't know if he's going to be okay to run in illinois in the state of illinois.

born on canadian soil, he was a citizen of canada -- >> can you sign a pledge? >> chuck, chuck -- >> can you sign a pledge that you will support the republican nominee? >> that was relating to canaa. the question was that and relating to canada. the question is whether or not he can run. i tell you something, from the standpoint of voters in iowa and new hampshire and all these places that have to vote, how can you vote for a candidate -- how can you do it when you don't even know if that candidate is able to run. laurence tribe from harvard said it's totally unsettled law. a number of top constitutional lawyers have come out recently over the last few days and said he's not allowed to run, he was born in canada, he can't run. o there's a real question and i said he should get a declaratory judgment. he has to do something because how can you have a campaign when it's very possible you are not allowed to run. >> let me ask you about "national review," i've seen your tweets, i know how you feel

feel a aut this issue. let me get you to respond to one quote from erick erickson. he writes this "like the angels in heaven who rejoice for every new believer, we should rejoice for donald trump's conversion to conservatism, but we should not put a new conservative in charge of conservatism or the country. what do you tell c cservatives that will make them believe you won't leave the ideology if it's convenient or unpopular. well, that's not an insulting quote. it really s. i was going to hit him hard. it wasn't an insulting quote. the "national review" is a failing magazine and you get that. they did it because i'll get nice publicity. i'll say this, ronald reagan, he was a somewhat liberal democrat and over the years he evolved and became a fairly conservative -- not overly -- but fairly conservative republicans.s. he became a great president also

people changed positions on things over the years and by the way, ted cruz has changed his position. he was a very, very -- he was very weak on illegal immigration. and now all of a sudden because of my stance he got strong but cruz was weak on immigration now he got stronger. so let's see what happens. but i use the term "ronald reagan, i use the name ronald reagan and that's pretty good to me. >> you know, just about -- well, about 15, 20 minutes ago mitt romney put out a tweet saying four years ago today he put out his tax returns and he believes that every 2016 candidate should release their returns before the first contest. just so you know, every nominee, mr. trump, has released their tax returns going back to 1980, but clinton, by the way, hillary clinton, we have every tax return that her name has been on since 1977 in the public domain.

returns for the public to scrutinized but? >> well, we're working on that now. i have very big returns and i have everything all approved and very beautiful and we're working on that over the next period of time, chuck. absolutely. >> what's the period of time? before the voting begins? >> i don't know, this is not like a normal tax return, this is a big tax return and i will say this and i'm very oud to say it, i think the country is run horribly, i hate what they do with our money and unlike everybody elser i try and pay as little tax as possible because i hate what they do with myax money. i hate the way they spend our money, the way they give it to iraq, the way they give it to iran, the way they give it to -- everything. they give it to everybody. >> you aa going to release it? >> i hate the way our politicians spend our money. i hate the way they give it away to everybody but us. we have to rebuild our country. >> but you will release it? >> and i say it and a reporter said "that's the most refreshing answer i've ever heard o" taxes." because everyone tries to build it up, like mitt romney, he

how much he pays. it doesn't work that way. at the appropriate time you'll be satisfied. >> finally i have to ask yoyo about bloomberg. what do you make of the idea at if you're the nominee, if sanders is the nominee, that would inspire mr. boomberg to go third party. >> michael has been a friend of mine over the years. i don't know if we're friends anymore. i would love to have him run. i would love that competition. i'd do very well against it. i would love to see michael bloomberg run. >> all right, you embrace its. mr. trump, i'll leave it there. stay safe on the trail, see you next week in iowa. >> thank you verer much. >> you got it. back in a moment, folks, with more on the republican race and the republican party's bank shot strategy of late. support donald trump now to defeat cruz then hope somehow you can defeat trump later. good luck with that. we'll be back.

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it's possible the republican field can be narrowed down to two candidates. both camps are making the electability argument. who's right? let's look at cruz. according to our latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll, among these five groups the republican party has struggled to win, cruz is underwater across the board. more people have an unfavorablele view than a favorable one.

but now here is how trump's numbers look among t same groups. the negatives are much worse. look at where he is among african-americans. his net negative rating@is 72 points in the wrong direction. in fact, trump's best numbers in these groups of voters, independents, suburban voters and latinos, his worst numbers are still better than cruz's worst numbers -- excuse me cruz's worst numbers are better than trump's worst numbers. so looking at it by the data at least suggests trump would start a geral election campaign in a much deeper hole than ted cruz. when we come back, the republican party's double bank shot plan to support donald trump now in order to beat him later. and can you explain why you reremmend synthetic over cedar? "super food?" is that a real thing? it's a great school, but is it the right one for her? is this reallyny better than the one you got last year? if we consolidate suppliers, what's the savings there? so should we go with the 467 horsepower? ...or is a 423 enough?

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. welcome back. whii the democrats are experiencing the traditional mainstream versus insurgent split, the republican party is in a much different lace. it appears totally talk from which you ared. the establishment is willing to back trump, at least temporarily, in order to beat ted cruz now. then they'll worry about how to beat trump later. let me bring in the panel,r. fix, political reporter for the "washington post," two of our campaign reporters, i got them to stay here for t blizzard, kristen welker who has been covering the clinton campaign a lot and sie hunt, we've had you all over the place, most recently with mr. sanders and david brooks, columnist in for the "new york times." welcome to you all.

have this great little trump versus cruz this week. it's nasty and personal. take a look. >> right now the washington establishment is is abandoning marco rubio. they made the assessment marco can't win this race and the washington establishment is rushing iver to support donald trump. >> his new line of attack is that i've become establishment. give me a break. [ laughter ] because bob dole is a terrific guy and said trump will do better than cruz which i -- believe heme, i will do better than cruz. >> if, as a voter, you think what we need is more republicans in washington to cut a deal with harry reid and nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, i guess donald trump is your guy. >> guys like ted cruz will never make a deal because he's a strident guy. "no, you cannot have that." >> as our poll numbers haveve surged, as donald's numbers keep dropping, he's getting more and more rattled. >> he's a very trystrident person, nobody likes him.

"national review" came out, you came out earlier in the week beggings by clay all of the -- the governing wing of the republican party you called this'm to revolt against both. >> this is going to go on for a long time. this is the irin/iraq war, i want them both to lose. i think that's going to happen. i'm the last person in america. this is not trump/cruz. this is going to go on for months and months and months. if you have a attacking b and b attacking a - - >> who's c? >> it'm telling you, it will be ubio. right now you have the conflict between the philosophical conservative wing, which is the "national review" crowd, and the rogue wing, which is talk radio and trump. so it's interesting to see how that breaks down. right now trump has the advantage in that because the conservative movement is less than it was 10 years ago. the financial crisis has hit people hard and they want a government on the side of the liberal guy as long as it's not filled with liberal valu but trump in the short term.

there will be monthsf this. wait for rubio. >> if you are part of the republican establishment, you should not go through this scenario that you juju talked about, chuck, this triple bank shot. what you want is in my opinion trump versus cruz for an extended period of time. this idea that well, okay, we'll get rid of cruz and handle trump, if trump wins, iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, there is no handling. the race is effectively over. i think you want cruz to win iowa, then trump wins new hampshire, , en it's a muddle. that's the way that a rubio emerges. this idea that trump will win the first four or five states, we'll get rid of cruz and insert our candidate, that doesn't seem to be likely. >> kasie, you've been covering the republican side for a while. david -- i feel like he is the last man standing. i am starting to question whether the establishment can even find a candidate. >> i think that's why you're seeing so many of them turn and focus on trying to figure out, okay, would i be okay with donald trump? mo of them feel that trump --

interview, trump's attack, that cruz is a nasty guy, is ultimately right. they all feel lime he's a nasty guy and they feel like while some of those numbers you schroedershowed showed trump's egg in tifrs overwhelmingly, they feel that it could be worse. >> i think ha what's interesting in my conversation with republican members of the establishment, they have shifted their own when they talk about trump. they're now saying he's the best person to make deals, he's sosoone who we can work with whereas cruz is not. and he's also -- >> that's panic! that's establishment panic. >> that makes no -- >> we have such a sum establishment. >> by the way, you will get universal agreement. conservatives love to go after you, on that they will. >> that is just embrace ago poison. i mean there will be an inauguration ininjanuary, 2017 and a man or woman will be standingngp there, that's where abraham lincoln stood.

that's where ronald reagan stood. donald trump is going to stand there? do not believe that. >> you sound like the "new yorker" cove. i should put it up. it was quite cute. it has all these former presidents watchingng donald trump on television with fdr with the remote and they're all like aghast at this. >> so there's -- i talked to a smart republican consultant who worked for a presidential candidate -- not one in this race but in past races and he said, look, yes, this trump thing is real, it's going to go on, the one q qstion i have -- and i think this is interesting -- there the a can i imagine thisis person being president in a hurrican in a blizzard, being the empathizer in chief after a mass shooting and that trump -- it's impossible for the majority of america to conceptualize donald trump in that role and at some point, though it won't be on february 1 and it probably won't be on february 9 and might not be until march or april or may, that reckoning will happen at

have someone who looks the role of the president, whether it's rubio or jeb, which is unlikely. but someone else other than him. >> that's the a aument the republican establishment has been making ever since donald trump got into this race. >> june 16, yes. >> and here we are. and the reality is, the challenge for these establishment candidates is that you stillhave to prove to the voters that youre big enough to run for the presidency before you get to the point where you're handling hurricane and none of these guys -- marco rubio, jeb bush -- none of them hae been able to stand up in a way that makes them seem bigger than donald trump. >> if he gets an electoral victory under his belt if trump were to win iowa i i think that perceptions but starts to change. and based on my reporting his ground game is more robust than initially thought. >> i'm j`st wondering, david, early-state voters, they don't vote with their head. they've been conditioned to vote idealistically. either on the left or right. so this is where i think the establishment -- both hillary clinton and the establishment are suffering. >> well,, at some point but then you get to later states. at some point these early states

going to make the change, who will deliver. >> because they've been fed this. >>this is like a big cultural event in these early states. the later states i think emotions are lower and they are more pragmatic, second -- something willlappen in the middle east. events will happen and third cruz and trump going after each other week after week, that will start to look ugly. >> well, that a buy and then the question is is there a candidacy left? that's the question. let's take a pause. we'll be back in a moment and talk about the democratic race with my fine quartet here and how hillary clinton's 2016 run

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with just over a week until the iowa caucuses, a lot of peoe are thinking what about is best suited to lead the country. my next guest, robert gates, has a unique insight into what it takes to becommander-in-chief having served under eight presidents, most recently as secretary defense under both presidents obama and bush and in his new bo it has a topical title "a passion for learship." secretary gates, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. >> let's talk about that leadership test. what is it you wish voters would use as a test to decide who to support? >> i think it's the question of who can lead the country and equally who can run the government. government is different and especially the federal government is different i many

anything else and people who have never run a government often have no idea how complicated it is and how difficult difficult. if you're a ceo, you don't have 535 members on your board of directors. >> you may have 12 or 15. you're here, we should talk about isis. i won't tell you which candidate is saying these things, i just wa you to assess the different ideas. one candidate "we won't weaken them, we will utterly destroy them, we will carpet bomb them into oblivion." another candidate says "you take away their wealth, knock the hell out of the oil, take away their oil." another says they nt a no-fly zone. another coalition says you have to bring together a muslim coalition, sunni and shi'a fighting side by side. what's realistic? >> i think bringing in some kind

help, creating some kind of humanitarian corridor or safe haven. they're both tough but you could do them. the first alternatives, i think, are completely unrealistic. and further more wouldn't accomplish the job and i can't figure out whether those who are arguing that really believe they can do that or whether they're being cynical or opportunistic. >> the first two you were cruz and trump, the seconon to two that you say are realistic are clclton and sanders. voters are told they can find a coalition to do this but are they cynical and think nothing ever changes in the middle east? is that why voters are more susceptible to bold or brash? >> or simple. and the problem is most of these problems are not simple and it requires -- firstst of all building coalitions in washington. it will be useful in terms of

security to have coalitions in washington where washingto speaks with relatively one voice, one sum unity before we form coalitions around thehe world. >> only eisenhower, ford and bush 41 did not evoke deep animosity. the next president will be polarizing. just due to the nature of our politics. >> but it doesn't need to be that. >> okay, i hear it doesn't need to be but your examples, two them couldn't even win -- one couldn'win a full term on their own and the other couldn't win reelection. polarization hel these guys win. that's part of the problem, isn't it? >> well, i think the question is who can move country and that will require reaching out to the other side and we have had polarizing presidents that nonetheless were able to reach

the country forward. after all harks very i, harry truman was one of the most unpopular presidents in amican history yet established extraordinary things. >> you said until you were 10 you didn't know his first name. you thought it was "gosh darn." so you should be on the michael bloomberg side of the aisle. he is a potential candidate that is saying he wants to create a campaign that would have people onnoth sides. >> practically speaking, i don't see how a third candidate works. how a third candidate can be elected. >> but you must like the message. >> what i'm interested is a candidate for president who talks about how to bring us together as people, who says we have a common destiny and who can emphasize that we can work together to address problems in the country. >> wise words fm you. we'll see if the voters will

out how to decide who can lead this country. robert gates, congrgrs on the new book. >> thanks, chuck. >> thank you, r. we'll become be in a moment with our end game segment and one washington resident who thought the blizzard of 2016 was the best thing that could possibly happen. - you can collect rainwater to s`ower with, but there are easier ways to go green. like taking shorter showers, which conserves water and lowers your bill. you'll sing long ballads in the rain

the more you know end game time, the panel is herer the democratic side, david brooks, what did you make of clinton v. sanders this morning? >> if i didn't know anything about these t race until i saw these back-to-back interviews today i would think sanders has honed his message and captured authenticity and joy and hillary clinton hasn't honed her message. there's a lot of chinese menu stuff, a, b, c, d, so you can see why he's doing well. you have to pick that message, hone , deliver it, velocity. >> i think they have a message but they don't -- they know it doesn't fire voters, which is experience counts. >> i was struck, chuck, when you asked her what her top priority was going to e, the number one

political capital on, i don't feel like she had a clear answer most about. she in some ways backed into it, talked about health care. >> i was surprised she made it health care in an odd way. really? we're going back to the 1990s. >> the whole argument is this is about the fututu not the past. when i was watching these interviews back to back, it's remarkable that a 74-year-old former mayor of burlington vermont, avowed socialist who on your show refused mnthsing too say i'm not a socialist, he's the change and future candidate. it's -- the way that she has found herself in this race, it's deja vu all over again. her only benefit is bernie sanders does n equal barack obama in that bernie sanders at least don't have support in the black community anywhere near barack obama. so she may benefit from that. from her perspective. who she is as a candidate is still the same, that's the problem. >> the primary calendar is her

there's a lot of states th large african-american voting blocks. she continues to invoke health care because she continues to hug president obama and his policies. it might not be as effective in a place like iowa and new hampshire but it matters in a place like south carolina. she's very focused on building up a f fe ball that the south and in those supertuesday states in case she does lose in iowa. >> it feels like she's setting up a march message. going to your point, the federal message is idealism and she doesn't have it. >> i think the same is on the republican side. we'll get more pragmatic, both races will be long, some big terrorist blow up somewhere, she'll look a lot better. but right now lacking the joy. >> i just -- i mean this with trump and hillary, this idea that you can simply lose to a socialist 74-year-old who no one thought had any chance of being anywhere close to her. the idea that you can lose iowa and lose new hampshire and people are go on their merry

david may be rikht, that it's an extended race with twists and turns that she eventually wins. that's the only pass that she wins a race -- >> you know the last pull to pull that off? their last name waaclinton. i'm just saying. bill clinton has familiarity. >> much lower expectations, though, chuck. >> he had his own bernie sanders. jerry brown. stay. >> stayed forever. >> and his own billionaire. ross pro. >> second round of the come back kid in new hampshire. >> but, chuck, if you're a hillary clinton supporter, they've been saying this from the beginning, this is the toughest part for her, the campaigning, the getting out there and selling her message. >> connectivity. >> being authentic. but they say she has built a ground game in iowa very much modeled after barack obama's ground game. they still think they'll get the people out. >> "new york times" -- paul krugman had a great piece, he id "bernie sanders is theary aryary

heir to candidate obama, hillary clinton is the heir to president obama." >> if people want somebody who can manne, they'll go for her. there's'some part of the count dry that does nt that. >> we'll see where they are and if they live in iowa. we spent a a t of time talking about how politicians in washington can't agree on anything but here in this town we can't agree on how much snow fell this weekend. there was a mixup in the measuring process at reagan national airport meaning the official numbers underestimated the amount of snow which had fallen. some people think our deficit gets ss dealt with that wa too. but one thing we can agree on, it's impossible not to smile of d.c.'s most famousus chinese rrident, tian tian tian tian, the panda having a lot of fun in the show. that's what i did on my way to work yesterday. >> looks like my six-year-old, genuinely. with fur. >> just a little bit more of this in our lives and we'd be happier.

next week we'll in in iowa. everybody will be in iowa. i can't wait. see you then.