now, "this week in defense news," with vago muradian. >> good morning. welcome to the show. i hope everyone's having a great independence day weekend. what challenges lie ahead as the united states pulse troops and equipment from iraq? first, america's complex overseas military relationships often hinge on weapons exports. the deputy undersecretary of the air force for international affairs is one of the key officials involved. he's a retired submariner who holds the distinction of negotiating the only military to military deal between the pentagon and china. bruce, welcome to the show. >> thank you, vago. earlier this year the

government of kurgistan wanted the government to vacate operations, but officials changed their tune and u.s. forces can stay there. can you tell us what happened to change their mind? >> that's correct, the agreement has been negotiated and this is very important for the support of u.s. forces, coalition forces in afghanistan, logistics, the ability to move troops in and out, so this is a good thing for the united states and for our coalition partners as we continue to stabilize afghanistan and help them move forward in their democratic process. >> and the agreement is limited to support. is that correct? it's only going to be support functions that go through that base now? >> yes. >> let's move to how foreign military sales in particular help the air force.

why is it in the air force's interest to help foster these kinds of deals, and as wellr there any dangers with potentially putting technology in the hands of those who could some day be potential adversaries? >> great question. what it's really about is relationship, partnerships, and building partnership capacity. the clear pleas son, in my view of 9/11, as great as our air force is, indeed all of our armed forces, we cannot do this alone. we need friends and partners to help contribute to stability tin region, and when appropriate, we're all sovereign nations, join us in coalitions. it's important that we not only have the right capabilities, but they're interoperable capabilities. it's not just the hardware, and you'll see where i'm going with this in a mome. it's not limited to weapons and equipment. it's about the techniques and

logistics. but at its most basic level for us, it ace training together, operating together, flying together, which translates to if it is appropriate we can fly and fight together seamlessly as one. it's about the training that we provide whether it's in the united states, or with a mobile training team, and in our foreign partner's country. you can have the best airplane in the world, and it's not going to fly very long if you're not trained to operate it and you don't have spare parts. the airplane, flying the same airplane that we do becomes the center piece of the relationship and ten abler of all those things i talked about. >> let's go for a second to some of the fighter competitions out there. you've got brazil looking for aircraft, india, one of the largest competitions, an switzerland and other countries are interested. can you update us on what the

u.s. air force's prospects are or the prospects for your aircraft, namely the f-16 or the f-15 are in any of these markets? >> again, this is an opportunity for us to build a stronger relationship with a partner air force. and you mentioned a number of countries and a number of regions in the world. india is a very important relationship. a strategic relationship, a growing strategic relationship. we establish the first significant foreign military sales case with six c-130-j theater transport aircraft with india. it's been very successful, moving forward, a foundation for us in future endeavors. you're right, the f-16 is an entry into the medium multi- world aircraft. so is the fa-18 super hornet and a number of foreign aircraft. most importantly, we want to go further in this relationship with india. i think the prospects for an

american-built fighter are very good, and we look forward to furthering the air force to air force relationship. you mentioned brazil. the fa-18 is the entry there, and there are a number of foreign fighters, an it is, of course, the fa-18 is a navy airplane. a we the air force are supporting the navy in every way we can. >> again, it's an overall relationship question. take a look at the f-22. obviously the decision has been made by the administration to terminate with the understanding and acceptance of the air force leadership at 187 aircraft. congress is still debating the future of the airplane. but two extremely close u.s. allies, japan and australia, are very interested in an export vearnt of the f-22. can you tell us whether and how this is likely to be resolved over time? i know that it probably comes up in virtually every meeting you have with your counterpart. >> occasionally it does come up. first of all, export of the f- 22 is forbidden by law, cod

fide in the amendment. number two, even if that didn't exist the f-22 was not designed to be an exported fighter. >> that's right, because its systems are not tamper proof, as are any of the other systems. >> and i'm not going to go into details of what makes a fighter exportable, but there would have to be significant redesign. it would take time, a lot of expense. but let's go to the fifth generation fight there is really available, and that is the joint strike fighter. in many ways, you take the f-22 technology, advance that by 15 years, you have the f-35. with all of the characteristics of the fifth generation aircraft, the combination of stealth, stealth speed and maneuver anlt, full sensor fusion, the inherent network centric capabilities, full self- diagnostic capability. what amazes me as an aerospace

engineer by training is that partner air forces are going to be able to acquire the f-35 for about the price of an f-16. that's remarkable. it gives aus tremendous opportunity for partnership beyond the eight original joint strike fighter partners around the world. >> bruce, thanks very, very much for joining us. >> my pleasure. what challenges lie ahead for u.s. troops as they pull out of iraq? stick ahead to find out. you're watching "this week in defense news." fios guy! where ya headed?

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(announcer) switch to verizon fios tv, phone and internet today and get an ultra-sleek compaq mini netbook. call the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 800.974.6006 tty/v u.s. troops pulled out of iraq cities last week, the first step to tray matily drawing down the american military presence in the country by 2011. what challenges lie ahead especially as the withdraw excel is rates next year? here to talk with us the director of the kay toe institute and the author of "t he power problem, how american military dominance makes heus less safe, less prosperous, and less free." welcome to the show. >> thank you, vag go. >> what are some of the challenges facing u.s. troops as they prepare to withdraw

from iraq? >> a lot of them are the same challenges they've been facing from the beginning. this is an unfable security environment. there have been some improvements along the way but we've also seen the ability of terrorist groups and insurgents to launch fairly dramatic attacks. sometimes those attacks attack american troops. that's inevitable, and i think that's like toll continue. the concern is that as u.s. forces draw down, as more and more responsibility is put on iraqi forces, who may not be as capable, certainly are not as capable as the u.s., that that will increase the risk both u.s. troops and to iraqi personnel. that's the great danger. >> is there a sense -- or how long and how many american troops are going to be remaining over the long term, whether in germany, japan, korea, united states forces have remained for decades. >> right. i think the key difference -- there are many differences, of course, between germany, iran, and iraq, but the status of forces agreement which was

negotiated by the bush administration and by prime minister al-maliki, endorsed by the iraqi government, and in states quite clearly that u.s. forces will be out of iraq by the end of 2011. we did not after similar agreement with either the germans or the japanese, and still don't, frankly. the reason, of course, why so many troops stayed behind in germany and japan was fear of the soviet union, which is is a different -- obviously doesn't exist, and you have a different dynamic in iraq. clearly the sentiment in iraq is for wanting to take control of their own security as quickly as possible. you still don't have that same sentiment in germany and japan. of course, the question for americans should be whether even in germany and japan, is it in our interest to still be there, but i think most americans agree that it's in our interest to get out of iraq, according to a timetable. >> so you disagree with this proposition that there will be 60,000 troops for the next decade that will be in iraq.

>> first of all, i don't think it's necessary for u.s. troops to remain in iraq in those numbers. i think the time line stipulated is fine. it could even be faster, frankly. but generally speaking the united states does not need that kind of a presence to ensure our security, certainly here at home, and even our interest there in the region. we don't need that presence. >> do you think there's anything that would actually keep us in iraq, for example, an escalation of violence, or do you think this is something that's basically revocable? >> i'm a historian. nothing is irrevocable. the emphasis must be on putting more responsibility on the iraqi people, the iraqi government, and on iraqi security forces. no country around the world, our military is absolutely the most capable in the world, so there's going to be a gap between what we can do and what they can do, but it is, after all, their country, and it's been their country for some time. it's more their country because

we took it away from saddam hussein and handed it to a new group of people. >> the premise of your book on the 23rd anniversary of the nation -- 223rd anniversary of the nation, that somehow america's global military dominance makes us less safe, less prosperous and less free what. do you mean by that? >> the founders had a very wise and very well grounded fear of a dominant military. they worried that a military that was so strong that it would shift power from the state -- from individuals to the state, and that was a very important concern. and i think it's a valid concern. look, i'm not a pass is a fifty. i served -- pacifist. i served in the military. what we don't need is a military so strong that it does for other governments what it should be doing for itself.

iraq is clearly a test case. but we have been providing services that normal governments should be providing for themselves. this is something we set out to do, even after the end of the cold war we basically communicated the message to the rest of the world, look, we'll take care of this for you. the burdens have been borne disproportionately by the american people and by the men and women in the military. >> even in the u.s. governmental construct you have the defense department playing a larger role. >> clearly there's so much money invested in the military relative to other departments that that's why the military is called on to do things that frankly it would not otherwise be doing, not military missions, frankly. >> chris, so many more questions, so little time. we'd love to have you back any time. thanks for joining us. up next, our exclusive interview with the chief of the italian military. stay tuned. the distance from the field to your table just got shorter.

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continuing to produce 70% fewer smog-forming emissions while delivering greater power. a fact not lost on the world around us. the all-new 2010 lexus rx hybrid. goo italy's military is small by u.s. standards but it's forces are deployed world i would from. lebanon to the balkans to afghanistan, and rome ranks as one of america's most steadfast allies. i caught one the dheef of staff in paris and asked him how the world economic crisis is affecting his budget. >> i would say that the budget situation in italy is somehow better than it shows, because we have some extra funds coming

from the military industry in order to sustain technological development, and these funds go directly into the procurement of some military equipment of the highest level of technology. also, we enjoy the fact that our mission, kosovo, lebanon, afghanistan, have specific finance which also covers from this year the maintenance which is required to prepare in order to deploy, and the maintenance which is required in order to bring back the equipment to the original efficiency. >> i asked him how much of the italian defense ministry's procurement costs are covered by the industry ministry. >> it varies according to the

fiscal year. recently, we are between one- third and something less of the total procurement budget, which means that some of the major equipment total paid off by the industry. the euro fighter, for example, paid off by the ministry of industry, which reduces the pressure on other systems, and allows us to look forward to other programs. >> i also asked him to describe his top procurement priorities. >> my procurement priorities in terms of systems can be summarized in increasing the ground forces capabilities with new protected vehicles, and let

me quote the mtlv, which is smaller humvee, with exceptional protection capability. in afghanistan we had no casualties whatsoever with the people on board this type of vehicle, notwithstanding the i.e.d. we are encountering daily. for the air force, joint strike fighter is for sure the next largest procurement we are looking forward to, and the navy, we are increasing our capabilities in the patrolling environment. we are expecting the new aircraft carrier to enter service, so funds are also available for that, but the new construction will be related to improve our capabilities to

patrol the adjacencies, which are our strategic priority. >> given italian troops have served both in iraq and afghanistan, i asked him what lessons have been learned. >> the lesson learned is that we need more jointness. i use the term frugal tee, because everybody is talking about jointness, but to really see this type of concept is something different, and we are learning day by day and improving day by day our capabilities in order to operate together, notwithstanding the uniform every single soldier, airmen. >> one longtime and coughly problem for italy has been the large number of its corps men. >> we are now working on

radical plan to reorganize the forces. we are probably the final outcome of the status we are making now will be reshaping -- i will not say reduction -- reshaping of the age profile of our men and women in service is. but let me correct you. the problem is not between procurement and manning. the problem as another factor which is main nance and training -- maintenance and training. i would not give up men for procurement. i would give up some men for increased capability in training and maintenance, so

that we have the proper number of troops to operate, and we have also the proper training for the troops to be able to operate them in a stately and effective manner. >> italy's operations and maintenance budgets are tightening. i asked the general whether there is a danger that he will have the equipment he needs but not enough money to adequately train to use it. >> as i said, this is a -- one of my greatest concerns, and fortunately, recently the political authorities have fully understood the need to sustain the process. as i mentioned, the funds which were made available this year for the operations abroad for the first time include also funds for maintenance pre and post deployment, which has substantially eased the

problem. i expect this concept to be embodied farther in the future. so in a way i am concerned, but i'm not worried. >> finally, i asked general camparini whether the italian military has shortcomings that worry him. >> i would say i'm quite happy with the capabilities we are now capable of delivering. for sure, i want to underline the fact that this is true in the present situation. i am a little bit less confident in case of very high intensity warfare. i want to improve capability in terms of situational awareness and in terms of, as i said, jointness, which is still better to be one. >> coming up in my note back, why pulling all u.s. gear out

of iraq will be harder than most people realize.

after six long and often bloody years u.s. forces began pulling out of iraq cities. the first step to cutting the presence by 2011. another challenge will be pulling out millions of tons of military equipment. some gear will be given to iraq, some will be scrapped, and some will return home. the question is this. how much is so worn out that it should simply be scrapped rear than shipped home? cleaning up and removing years of accumulated waste, worn out tires generated by 150,000 soldiers at war will be another challenge. under the u.s. agreement with iraq america must clean up its mess before leaving, all of which will proof pricey. after so many years of grinding use the pentagon must demonstrate its wisdom to scrap what should be scrapped and save what should be saved without either giving away great national treasure or wasting funds fixing things

that aren't worth fixing. thanks for joining us for "this week in defense news." i'm vago muradian. i'll be back next sunday morning at 11:00. have a wonderful 4th of july weekend.