from washington, "the mclaughlin group." the american original. for over tw death of anme an ic.onic senator ted kennedy. on balf of the group, we offeron our deepest sympathies to theie mivibethrsngf oe kennedy f , lycio ally t, the senar'ves lylobed wife and tildren.lo tor kennedy's politicalse history and his monumental achievement. pin. preat

issue one, $5 billion race to the top. >> better standards, better teaching, better schools. data-driven results. that's what we will reward with our race to the top fund. america will not succeed in the 21st century unless we do a un better job of educating our sons and daughters. >> as children across the nation return to their classrooms this week, one fact is clear. education is vital for america. and it needs reform. so says the u.s. president. the centerpiece of the obama reform is a $5 billion cash surge. it will be used to overhaul america's underperforming schools. the $5 billion will not flow automatically to the u.s.'s 50

states. they must compete head-to-head, and justify whatever money they get. >> this competition will not be based on politics, or ideology, or the preferences of a particular interest group. instead, it will be based a simple principle. whether a state is ready to do what works. >> question: president obama has an education reform package. does it foster competition between the states? or facilitate federal control over education? pat buchanan. >> it will do both. i mean the states will compete for the federal money expect that will give the federal government a whip hand here. but john this is a drop in the ocean. 4 to $5 billion in terms of the enormous education budget, state, local, federal we have got right now. george bush's no child left behind. i'm a bit of a cynic but test scores have been dropping since 1964 in this country. sometimes up a little bit. basically the trend line is down. the collapse of the family, the culture has affected this.

you know, -- from kids coming to school without aptitude and interest and things like that. i don't think we're getting at the basic problem at all. we're throwing more money to a industry that has fundamentally failed america. >> eleanor? >> this is the most discretionary money any secretary of education has had. it probably combines the sums that all of the several recent secretaries have had. o to set up a competition among the states in terms of charter schools, innovative projects, i think it is what has made america great the sort of innovative spirit. the only downside i see is you have some states like mississippi and alabama who don't like federal control, and will see this as a dangerous way for the federal government to interfere. they don't like federal standardized tests and it will just keep those folks at the bottom. but i think this is a brilliant idea. race -- america loves competition. and our schools need modernizing. if harry truman came back and walked into a classroom today he would feel right at home

because they look just like they did in 1945. >> how do you like the president's education reform plan. >> i like it on paper it looks great. competition, free market principles into education. this is something conservatives have been arguing for a very long time. problem is is that there is so much money already being thrown at the education system in america. last school year, 2008-2009, $667 billion, total. spent on k-12 education. that doesn't even include the $100 billion extra in the stimulus package going to education. i think the real challenge here, for president obama, and on paper his plan looks great and i support it. it is going to be all about school choice. school voucher programs. charter schools. introducing more competition at the ground level, for our students. because all of the charter schools and voucher programs show increases in tremendous educational outcomes for less cost when you have some competition. >> let's get -- >> the challenge here for obama, though, is to be able to

stand up to the teachers union, the nea and american federation of teachers because they don't like this part of the equation at all. >> let's get we turn to clarence and he can take it up. what works for president obama? >> what works for president obama? competition. all50states in direct competition, racing against each other to enact reform. or any state to access the $5 billion war chest, it must sub instantively alter its status quo by putting in place the following. one, more charter schools. the schools receive public money but are more innovative with far less bureaucratic regulation. two, standardized testing. a single yardstick to evaluate students in all 50 states, not the scattered standards of the u.s.'s 14,500 individual school districts. three, data mining.

use test results to identify successful teachers, weeding out bad ones. >> four, teachers get paid based on student performance. aka, merit pay. use the market dynamic to reward teachers who get results. conversely, when students are habitually not succeeding, fire the teacher. ignore tenure status. the biggest sticking point of course is number four. of course. merit pa direct linkage of student test results and teachers' salaries. >> let's put the teachers salary aside and talk about standardized testing. >> okay. >> do you think standardized testing. that is a single yardstick developed by the federal government for the evaluation students in all 50 states is a good idea? does it have a downside? aren't the states post to be incubators -- >> there is not that much money

to defeat everything. however there is enough money that the states aren't going to turn down the feds. they are willing to go along. >> the test is standardized. >> you know why? because we don't really know what a diploma is worth any more if we don'-- this is something george bush started as you know. i talked with arne duncan here recently new secretary of education who came to washington from chicago. and he will tell you, one of the first things he will tell you it was george bush's biggest contribution was in getting some kind of stand nationally so, we know what a diploma is worth. too many kids weren't able to read their own diplomas. but you're right there is a danger if you start teaching to the test. and that's a problem we have seen happen here and there -- and you don't want that to happen. but there is value to it. >> what do we think ofs have a dossier on every child, johnny, sophie who goes through school for inspection on how they performed on their essays -- >> you make it sound so dire, john. >> how much are we going to

have on people's background. >> yeah, you make it sound so dire, john. no, no, you have to have -- >> you want that on -- >> you said you want merit pay, right? how are you going to judge merit pay if you don't look how effective the teachers are. that is one thing duncan has made progress on with the teachers union. >> i am talking about standardized testing. >> and the -- >> that's part of it. >> in the old days. >> there are arguments on both sides. in the old day the dossier was called a report card. thank you. >> but there is all available on the computer by the federal government. >> well, not by name, though, but by individual. >> by name. >> not to the public. >> the first president. >> not for the public but there for inspection by the cia. >> how will you grade the schools, john. >> the first president bush. the first president bush, george hw bush, called himself "the education president." and he proposed a federal standard. and he was defeated probably within his own party. and everybody set up their own standards and governors dumbed down the test to make sure they had better numbers and it is

completely phony. unless you have federal national stabbed you don't know how you're comet competing. if you're going to compete in a globalized society we have to turn out students who will be able to make it with those standards. >> let me just say -- you say if a teacher doesn't produce, fire the teacher. sometimes the kids are not good students. sometimes you got wonderful teachers, and very difficult schools, black board jungle, remember, that john? some of these kids are doing -- >> that was easy compared to schools out there now. >> that's like a day care center compared to what they are now. >> should not be any automatic control over whether teachers survive or not. why don't they leave it to superintendent of school. the principal of the school to decide. >> some of the schools. >> well, some of these report cards now are phony. you find out the kid gets all as. he takes a tough test and can't pass it. i agree we used to have national merit scholarship things when we were in high school in those days standardized tests nationwide. that really weeded folks out. >> there is another part of this equation we haven't talked

about which is parental responsibility here. and -- having parents becoming increasingly involved, and interested in their own children's education, which has been on the -- >> nobody -- nobody is against that. nobody is against that. >> no, it is worth looking at what duncan did in chicago. like just for first day attendance over a month in advance working with the parents to get the kids out and they improve year by year the attendance substantially. there are things you can do to -- >> exactly. >> and also on the question of federalism and should the states be incubators, on obama's proposal to putting out the 4 to $5 billion to have the states compete there have been at least four states i know off the top of my head, massachusetts, rhode island and tennessee who have put legislation in place to increase the number of charter schools schools because they want to compete for that money. the real question is there these states follow-through. if they get the money will they follow-through on charter schools. that is yet to be determined i >> okay. education is essential. >> in a world where countries

that outeducate us today will outcompete us tomorrow, the future belongs to the nation that best educates its people. >> which nations best educate their students? in a global study, of science education, of 15-year-olds, the u.s. ranked 29. repeat 29. out of 57 countries. china, japan, korea, are well ahead of us as well as ex- communist nations like latvia, croatia and slovenia. >> question, education is key to competitiveness in the work force. that is what mr. obama tells us. but no amount of education will keep u.s. jobs here. all we will have is a highly educated pool of unemployed people. data shows that jobs for college educated are rapidly being outsourced to cheaper labor markets. so education is not the key, excuse me, to competitiveness in the work force. >> pat buchanan?

>> john, first off we saw all the manufacturing jobs for these kids that don't graduate from high school, or just get out of high school, great jobs, they are gone. now allen binder the economist said $30 million to $40 million white collar jobs, accountant, medical -- people doing medical diagnosis. all these other jobs -- done abroad send it bit computer. 30to40million are at risk. we have one of the highest standards of living in the world and these jobs will go to places, quite frankly, where they don't have to pay as much money and they can get an equal amount of good work done. >> every study you -- you read, shows people do better if they have high school education, much better if they have a college education, even better if they have a graduate degree. i don't think you can take that away, even with your argument that these jobs are going overseas. and then you have to look at the rest of the president's education proposals and that is the community colleges. and he's putting a lost money and a lot of energy into community colleges to train

people for the jobs that will exist. here we get into the green economy. i know you can but -- >> the economy is coming and retro fitting and there will be the 21st version of those mar manufacturing jobs will come back. >> $10 billion more than we spent on education since the gi bill. we're talking about community colleges, we're talking about a medical technology, nursing, police and firefighters, people going back to school for continuing education. it is a really diverse student body out there. geriatric care is going to be big. >> yeah, a lot of us will be going there, too. if education is not the answer, what is pat buchanan? >> what is to the american economy? >> yes. >> economic nationalism. >> the work force. >> oh for the work force? , john, i will be honest, i don't have -- i mean i don't think education is the answer. i believe the divides united states has to make itself as a nation, separate from other countries because, quite frankly, if you want to

maintain the highest standards on earth, you cannot have cheap products coming in and all your jobs going out. >> what about -- what about ross perot and what he had to say. >> ross perot was very true when he said you can get workers for $2 a day in yucatan and that is where they are going. these white collar jobs. >> folks at wal-mart -- >> they are all sure -- >> they will be at your door saying i want my cheap clothes. i want my computer, laptop. >> they are all made in china. yeah. the salesmen will be in wal- marts but they are all made in china. >> that is where education comes in. more education you have the more choices you have in life. just to re-- repair those computers. >> economic protectionism and pulling in and -- >> let me finish. >> building a moat around the country is not the answer in the 21st century. the answer is education and innovation and americans have been very good at that in the past. >> economic nationalism built america. >> i totally agree with eleanor

on this. >> welcome! welcome! >> education is the key. the united states cannot remain the world's global super power without a highly educated work force. but you have a couple that was -- with an -- couple that with an understanding that not every kid is bound for college or should go to college. you have to put a stress on trades and vocations. >> what about a level playing field which is what ross perot insisted on and fair trade? >> that is why ross perot did so well this presidential run, right? >> well, -- >> he had the -- >> i have always supported fair trade but you know over the -- the fact is we are in a global economy. >> that means the rule of law, it means environmental stands, exactly what we have here. we should make those world wide, they won't do it, john, 'chinese -- you're exactly right. put environmental stands here, tough ones and -- >> re-- work place safety. >> work place safety. all those on american business. the price and cost of producing here goes up. you move the factory to china, you avoid all that and the goods come back. >> also -- as well as we owe everything to china we are not going to be able to put machine

pressure on them. >> you're not taking consideration of the union. >> i am taking consideration of the union. look how unions have been on flat on their back because of taft-hartley. >> you think education is the key? >> education is still the key. >> for a kitch work force. >> america has grown not through protectionism but innovation. we're the innovative nation even if we don't get as many straight as kids. >> we're the most protectionist nation on earth until 1948. >> well. >> i think education is a good thing. i do. it is not 1948 any more. >> fine! >> don't overextend yourself. >> well, if you think salvation lies there, what has happened the last 50 years? >> well, we fell behind on some -- jobs are dynamic. you know -- >> do you think that obama was motivated at all by the fact that the teachers union is so radically -- left? >> i think obama is well motivated on this but i do think he is responding to pressure. he knows he. >> you don't think the teachers union as his constituency lock

stock and barrel. >> sure the teachers union. >> do you think this is pork to them. >> it is not pork because he's also gotten into merit pay and that is a key because -- >> you know. >> being able to fire -- have the power to fire. look what is happening in d.c. with the superintendent, and firing teachers. >> they buil when we come back, puerto rico, will it become the 51st state bringing with it two democrats in the u.s. senate and six democrats in the u.s. house of representatives. when planning for retirement these days, the forecast is full of ifs. if i'm too exposed to downturns. if i'll go through my savings too fast. to help you feel more confident consider putting a portion of your savings in a metlife variable annuity. when the market goes up, it gives your assets a potential to grow. while protecting you if the market goes down with a steady stream of income. let america's number one annuity provider help you stay on course with guarantees for the if in life.

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to move us all ahead. this is the power of human energy. chevron. issue two, the 51st state? >> what i want is for puerto ricans to have the same rights as other americans to determine your future. >> since 1898, 111 years ago, the end of the spanish-american war, puerto rico has been a

possession of the united states. politically for the last 57 years. since 1952. puerto rico has been a commonwealth. a self-governing entity, but not a state of the united states. and now it is one step closer to becoming the 51st state of the united states. puerto rico has a population of 4 million. and the gdp of $70 billion. ranking 79 out of 229 countries. ahead of nations like oman, uruguay, jordan. it is roughly the size of connecticut. puerto rico has a representative in the u.s. house of representatives named pedro pioluisi. pedro is called resident commissioner of puerto rico. he is allowed to serve on house esmm house t vote on th flr.oo in may, three months r.ago,

representative pioluisi, introduced a bill called the puerto rico democracy act of 2009. last month, the house natural resources committee aroofed the measure by a vote of 30 to 8. the bill authorizes puerto rico to set up two refernda for puerto ricans to vote on. the first ask whether puerto ricans want to keep their current political status of commonwealth, yes or no. if a majority choosing no, we want to change, a second referendum will be triggered. puerto ricans will then decide whether they want to become an independent nation, or a u.s. state with full u.s. state rights, or an associated sovereignty. still a part of the united states, but not a state, and more independent than it is now. okay. the politics. puerto rico is rootedly democratic, not republican. and it is even more proudly so

since one of their own heritage has just taken a seat on the united states supreme court, justice sonia sotomayor. if puerto rico chooses to become the 51st state, that would mean, two more democratic senators in the united states senate. and atsix new democratic representatives in the house of representatives. question: what is president obama's position on puerto rico's status? do you know, monica? >> well, i would assume that since he's a liberal democrat he would love to have full- blown statehood for puerto rico for the reasons -- >> you think he's a political animal? >> he's a totally political understand. as is every american president, john. there is a president as well as the leader of their party. he would be remiss politically if he didn't argue for that. i have not heard him go out very strongly in terms of this decision and i really don't think he needs the headache right now. >> no, the appropriate position is to be hands off.

it is up to the people in puerto rico. and i would be amazed if this legislation saw the light of day. i live in the district of columbia. we don't have representation, because that would be too political. >> the advantage of puerto rico becoming a nation? >> that is an excellent idea. puerto rico should have been let go just like the philippines. it is a small nation, entirely different -- >> they don't want it apparently. >> but look, what do we want here -- >> no plebocites. >> we have a right to decide. i don't think america should become an official bilingual nation because that is an empire not a country. >> you know -- you're so alone in that position. >> well, -- i mean, puerto rico wants to be a state that really -- every referendum points in that direction. full independence gets maybe about a they can't become a state -- >> eight electoral votes for the democratic party every presidential election. wethe sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. the mclaughlin group is brought to you by mississippi development authority.

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