>> schieffer: today on "face the nation" an angry nation, a nasty debate and what to do about health care and so much more tens of thousands of conservatives marched in washington yesterday protesting what they called socialism and the president's health care plan. how indicative of is their demonstration of the nation's mood? and what happens on health care reform now? we'll ask president obama's top advisor david axelrod. then we'll talk with senator olympia snow, the main republican who may hold the key to finding a bipartisan approach. we'll bring in syndicated columnist kathleen parker and

roger simon of politico to round out the discussion. and then i'll have a final word on what this debate is telling us about us. but first white house advisor david axelrod on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs "face the nation" with cbs news chief washington correspondent bob schieffer. and now from cbs news in washington, bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning again. senior white house advisor david axelrod is in syracuse this morning. republican senator olympia snow is here in the studio. the demonstrators who poured on to the industries of washington yesterday capped off an angry summer. it saw the president's popularity go down as tempers went up. even on the floor of congress where a back bencher congressman called the president a liar. as the president was calling for unity. i want to go first to david

axelrod this morning. mr. axelrod, what do you make of this demonstration yesterday on the streets of washington? do you think it's indicative of the nation's mood and what message do you have this morning for those people who were on the streets here yesterday. >> first of all, bob, i don't think it's indicative of the nation's mood. in fact i don't believe that some of the angriest, most strident voices we saw during the summer were representative of the thousands of town hall meetings that went on around the country that came off peacefully, that were constructive. people voicing their points of view. but one of the great things about our country is people can express themselves even if they're not representative of the majority. your own poll which was taken after the president's speech suggests that they don't represent a mainstream view of this health care plan and so, you know, i don't think we ought to be distracted by that. my message to them is they're

wrong. the president made it very, very clear that he wants to build on the system that we have. he wants to fix what's wrong with it so that insurance company bureaucrats can't rule arbitrarily over the lives of their customers in ways that are very significant. so people don't go broke because of out of pocket costs from the insurance companies. and we want to make sure that people who can't afford health care today because they don't get it from their employer can get health care. at a price they can afford. right now they have to pay three times as much as anyone else. that's what this is about. we are focused on what it's about and not on distortions of it. >> schieffer: all right. in an interview that's going to be shown tonight on "60 minutes," mr. axelrod, steve kroft asks the president what he thought of all this anger that sort of erupted over the summer. here's what he said about it. >> the truth of the matter is

that that there has been a coarseening of our political dialogue. i will also say that in the era of 24-hour cable news cycles that the loudest, shrillest voices get the most attention. one of the things i'm trying to figure out is how can we make sure that civility is interesting. >> schieffer: that entire interview is going to be seen tonight on "60 minutes." let's go back to what the president said the other night to the congress, mr. axelrod. david brooks, a columnist from the "new york times" said that basically the president had praised the so-called public option. that is this government insurance plan that many people want. and then effectively buried it. why doesn't the president just say, we don't have the votes to pass this. we have the votes perhaps to pass a lot of other things. and just put that aside and say he's not going to push it. he said, you know, he didn't think it was crucial to the

plan but he still liked it. >> let me say again that he believes that it will add an element of competition where there is none in some places in this country where there's a monopolistic situation with insurance companies. we believe competition and choice will help bring prices down and improve care and give a better deal to consumers. he continues to believe it's a good idea. he continues to advocate it. i'm not willing to accept that it's not going to be in the final package. but what he also said and what we've all said is that this is not the whole of health insurance reform. we should not let the whole debate evolve into this one question, circulate around this one question and lose the best opportunity we've had in generations to do something very significant about a problem that just... that is just getting worse. >> schieffer: one of the other things he said the other night

was that he thought that this program could be self-sufficient. how can he really say that he can put all of this into effect without add to go the deficit. we don't have any other programs that haven't added to the deficit like medicare or like social security. >> look, one of the reasons we have the problems we have is because over the last eight years congress has passed a series of things, two major tax cuts for the very wealthy funded two wars, prescription drug coverage for seniors without funding any of it. that's why we have the tremendous deficit problem we have today. what this president is saying we need to move forward on this but we need to do it in a fiscally responsible way so we need to say how we're going to pay for it. the president has identified a series of savings that he feels can be made in our public health programs. the congressional budget office has certified that, yes,

these are real and legitimate savings. now we have to discuss how we close the rest of the gap. he embraced one idea on wednesday night relative to fees on insurance companies on high-end insurance policies. there are a menu of other things that will be we'll be discussing with congress but he is absolutely committed that he will... he will not sign a bill unless he can say to the american people honestly that this bill will not add to our deficit. >> schieffer: do you sometimes wonder, mr. axelrod, if perhaps the president just tried to bite off too much. we had all these severe problems with the economy. maybe that's what caused people to wonder about all this? has he tried to bite off more than the country can chew at one time? >> well, as to your last point, bob, health insurance reform, health care reform has never been an easy issue. that's why it hasn't been resolved 100 years since

theodore roosevelt first raised it. i wouldn't ascribe it to him or anything in the current debate. we were faced with an economic, potential economic catastrophe when we came to office. we had to fact to stem it. senator snow to her credit was a part of that effort. by the way for those who believe in civility and politics she's a great example of that. but, no, i don't believe that. here's what i believe, bob. around kitsch... kitchen tables, in small businesses and large around the country people are wrestling with this issue of health care. it is a greater and greater burden. more people are losing their insurance. more people are being crowded out of coverage. even though they pay for it. and it's only going to get worse. costs have doubled in the last ten years. they're going to double again unless we act. everyone knows we have to do something. >> schieffer: all right. thank you so much for being with us this morning, mr. axelrod. >> great to be with you.

>> schieffer: we will turn now to senator snow. did the president take the public option off the table the other night or should he be more specific about that, senator snow? >> he should be more specific. in fact, i urged the president to take the public option off the table because it's universally opposed by all republicans in the senate. therefore, there's no way to pass a plan that includes the public option. so i think he's recognizing that because it is a roadblock to building the kind of consensus that we need to move forward. even chairman baucus has indicated no proposal could be passed in the senate that includes it. so it would be best to just move forward. >> schieffer: you just heard what mr. axelrod said. he's not willing to take it off the table. >> i think it's unfortunate because it leaves open a legislative possibility that creates uncertainty in the process. i think it could get real momentum to building a consensus on other issue. i appreciate the fact that the president did demonstrate flex

iblt on the question in his speech wednesday night but it does leave it open and therefore unpredictable. >> schieffer: you first broached this idea of the so- called trigger option and that is setting a deadline for these private insurance companies to come up with plans that could cover everyone who needed health care. and then if they didn't get that, then consider some sort of a public option. do you still feel that way? >> yes, i do. i think it is a possibility. you know, bridging the gap at some point in this process as we move forward. in fact i recommended it to the president months ago. even before health care was at the forefront in congress. because it's a way of assuring coverage, not instituting a publics option but making shall you are that people have access to choices. if the health insurance industry doesn't perform under a newly restructured market similar to what we did in the prescription drug benefit which actually it worked. there were so many choices we never triggered the fallback in fact.

>> schieffer: well, you are a part of the senate finance committee and part of the group that's trying to put together some sort of a bipartisan group. will that be in the plan that the finance committee puts forward? >> it's not on the table. it won't be. we'll be using the co-op as an option at this point. as the means for injecting competition in the process. >> schieffer: senator snow, you of course are a key vote in all of this. maybe the only republican that will wind up being for it. will you vote for it if you're the only republican because senator grassley, another key republican, said he's not going to vote for it if he has to be the only republican. it has to be a broader plan than that. would you be will to go vote if you're the only republican that's for this? >> i'm focusing on getting the best strategy so we can maximize the support among republicans and democrats and of course the american people. we're working mightly within this group of six. the only bipartisan effort i might add in either committee of the house or senate that's

working for the more than three months to exhaust i havely examine all the issues. we debate the issues not political philosophies. frankly we have to take the time to do that. that's what the american people expect us to do. i view time as an ally not as an enemy so we can build that spor. that's the key here. i want to be able to craft the very best policy for access, affordability and addressing costs both to the consumer and to the government. >> schieffer: would you vote for a bill that you believed in. >> i'll do what's right based on what is the right policy. but i think it is important to build support. that's what i'm looking for. that's what we're all looking for. both senator grassley and the other members, chairman baucus and senator conrad and senator bingham. it's a real tribute to chairman baucus and senator grassley for engaging in this effort that has truly been bipartisan. we have been working, as i said, deliberately and intensively to maximize the

potential for a bipartisan agreement. that would engender broader support in the senate n.the congress and in america. >> schieffer: you do not believe at this point a public option, a plan that included a public option could pass the senate. >> correct. i do not. >> schieffer: this morning kathleen sebelius the secretary of health and human services said that the president would specifically support language that prohibits using money for abortion. >> that's an important statement. we certainly are working on that issue. within the group of six. i think that there should be a specific prohibition similar to what is in current law. the amendment applies currently to the medicaid funding. they should be explicit that funding isn't provided for tax subsidies and other benefits in the health insurance and those ones should be segregated. >> schieffer: let me change the subject just slightly to these demonstrations that we saw yesterday. this back bencher congressman

who got up on the floor the other night during the joint session and shouted out "you lie" to theate president. what is your sense of what's going on here? >> well, you know, it's a good question, bob. it was unfortunate and disgraceful incident that occured in the house of representatives. i've served 16 years here. i've never witnessed that. i think it is unfortunate that it brings disrespect to the institutions and to elected officials. i think it's, you know, for the american people to express themselves is appropriate. i think the question is how we conduct ourselves as elected officials within the legislative process. frankly, if there was more civility, we perhaps could get more done for the american people. that would set an example for everybody else. that's what i like about this group of six. i wish the american people had a chance to see, have a window into our daily deliberations. it's what the legislative should be all about in bringing republicans and democrats together to discuss

real ideas irrespective of our differences. we could, i think, so much better off in addressing the major issues of our time. we have to demonstrate to the american people we have the capacity to address the major issues of our time. >> schieffer: senator snow, it's always a pleasure to have you with us. thank you for coming by. >> thank you, bob. >> schieffer: we'll be back in just a minute with a round table. i'm ed whitacre, the new chairman of general motors. before i started this job, i admit, i had some doubts. probably a lot like you. but i like what i found. i think you will too. car for car, when compared to the competition, we win. simple as that. i just know if you get into one of our cars, you're gonna like what you see. so we're putting our money where our mouth is. buy a new chevy, buick, gmc or cadillac and if you are not 100% happy, return it. we'll take it back.

that's our new 60-day satisfaction guarantee. and as always you'll get our 100,000-mile, 5-year powertrain warranty on every vehicle. that's how strongly we feel about our cars. and how committed we are to you. so put us to the test-- put us up against anyone and may the best car win. >> schieffer: we're back now with syndicated columnist kathleen parker and politico's roger simon. has the president taken the public option off the table or hasn't he? and if he hasn't, why hasn't he? >> go ahead. >> thank you, kathleen. i think he's going to let the u.s. senate take the public option off the table for him. >> yeah. >> the publics option is popular in his party. it's a misconception that the left wing of the democratic party wants the public option.

the left wing of the democratic party wants single- payor, what they have in canada. it's the democratic wing of the democratic party that wants the public option. and that is the wing that barack obama slowly has to use. he's going to use the senate and say we can't get it passed. we're not going to lose this whole bill over it. >> i agree with that. that's exactly right. why would he remove it? as roger says, somebody else is going to do it for him. he can say, look, i did my best. he doesn't alienate, you know, his own party. in the process. it's off the table clearly. but it's not his fault. >> schieffer: all right. so once it's off the table, he still has a whole bunch of democrats over there in the house that say we don't like anything unless it has this public option, as you say, roger. you have these senators who say no way, no how. will they come together? can he bring them together and get them to pass the other

things that he wanted and that he can probably get passed or can he? >> his argument is going to be, look, you're never going to have a president who is more popular right now, even though my numbers may be dropping. if we don't do it now, we're not going to get it done. we've been talking about this thing for decades. your constituents want health care reform. they want insurance reform. are you really going to be the person who goes back to your district and says i'm denying you health care reform in your lifetime because it wasn't exactly what i wanted. or are we going to take what we can get? >> you know, this is... without the public option, this is still vast reform. this is a huge, huge step. i think what the president will say is look how far we've come. you know, we really have... backing up just a minute. if you talk to anybody in this process along the way they've known all along sort of where we were going to wind up. it was going to be just, you

know, the public option was really never going to be taken seriously. certainly on the republican side. a lot of the moderate dem vats have been hoping that this group of six would save them so that they could vote for something that they believed in and that they could go home and defend. this is actually in the end going to end up pretty much where people sort of knew it was going to end up but they had to go through this process and play the political game along the way. >> schieffer: do you think in the end that any republicans will vote with this with the possible exception of senator snow, kathleen? i know you have very good sources on that side of the aisle. >> well, you know, there is this sort of assumption that there are no republicans that could support health care reform. that's not true. that may be true in the house side but there are plenty people on the senate side who, if we have something included that is a republican idea, then they're going to come on board. yes, i think some republicans will vote for this. >> i'm not sure. you may be right.

but we're in an era of hyper partisanship. this is clearly going to be a democratic health care bill. the dem kralts are going to take credit for it, for doing this historic act. and there's very little up side if you're a republican for adding your name to it. and possibly a lot of down side. no one knows how it's going to work. most importantly especially to republicans no one really knows how we're going to pay for it. >> schieffer: do you think, roger, that the president is simply trying to bite off too much? the question that i asked david axelrod. i mean, in addition to health care, he's launched all of these other programs. i'm not saying that any of them were not programs that perhaps needed to be done. but is this too much too quickly here? >> he was elected as a change president. that was his message. after eight years of portraying a president who didn't do much except plunge us into a foreign war, this is

what barack obama sees as his mission. it's what his party wants. and i think at this point it's& still what most of the country wants. >> i do agree with you. i mean change is what he ran for obviously. but it has been a lot at once. this comprehensive health care reform plan that is so complicated. anybody who has read it, you know, realizes that it's almost incomprehensible in parts. the house bill certainly. and so, you know, americans are... they're uneasy. there's so much else going on. they've lost their jobs and they see this huge growth of government cost. and then now we've got afghanistan escalating. so that adds another wrinkle. you know, if he had taken pieces of reform and done it incrementally i think there would be less unease but yet, you know, it wop have been what he promised. >> schieffer: there's no question he's the best salesman. >> oh, yeah. >> schieffer: but does he run the risk of overexposing

himself? i mean, he has done so many speeches now. yet there's another one and then another one. does he lose some of his power by talking too much? >> well, i do wonder. they're going to have to change it to obama-span because he's on tv giving a speech all the time. we never get off the notetaking ticket. there is always that risk of overexposure. yet if you watched his speech yesterday in minneapolis, he sort of redeems himself every time he goes out there in front of the public because he is so good. >> it is a risk. he keeps topping himself. every time you think this guy can't give another speech that's better than the last one, he gives another speech that's better than the last one. he's achieving his purpose. it wasn't really a bipartisan speech to congress. it wasn't really to unite democrats around a plan. it was to unite democrats around him. as a man who can get this job done. >> schieffer: all right. i want to thank both of you. i'll be back with a final

thought in just a moment. so, what's the problem? these are hot. we're shipping 'em everywhere. but we can't predict our shipping costs. dallas. detroit. different rates. well with us, it's the same flat rate. same flat rate. boston. boise? same flat rate. alabama. alaska? with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits, it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate. dude's good. dude's real good. dudes. priority mail flat rate boxes only from the postal service. a simpler way to ship. most people try to get rid of algae, and we're trying to grow it. the algae are very beautif. they come in blue or red, golden, green. algae could be converted into biofuels... that we could someday run our cars on.

in using algae to form biofuels, we're not competing with the food supply. and they absorb co2, so thm,oble w elas l.reenhopre m,le as well. and they absorb co2, we're making a big commi. just how much algae can help to meet... the fuel demands of the world. just how much algae can help to meet... crime in new york city has dropped 27% since 2001. response times in madrid... ...have been cut by 25%. cities all over the world are getting smarter... ...and safer. every time an emergency happens... ...data is generated. smarter cities fight crime...

fires... flu outbreaks... ...by capturing the data. detecting the patterns. sharing it across departments. ...responding to emergencies... ...even preventing them. making cities safer. that's what i'm working on. i'm an ibmer. let's build a smarter planet. >> schieffer: finally today, that was not a state of the union speech we heard the other night. but it had all the trappings. when that congressman hollered "you lie" at the president, we did get a snapshot of the nation's state and it was not a pretty picture. the country is in an angry mood. people are frustrated. tempers are short. congressman being shouted down at town hall meetings where constituents sometimes show up with guns. and at rallies like the one yesterday in washington where people carried signs such as "bury health care with kennedy." the irony of a congressman& trying to heckle a president in the midst of a speech that was, among other things, about the need for civility, is just one ugly sign of the mindless

meanness that has settled over our politics. how different it was in the aftermath of a far more difficult time, those days after 9/11 whose anniversary we marked on friday. i remember watching then not far from where that congressman hurled his insult as senate republican leader trent lot put his hand on the shoulder of his democratic counterpart tom daschle to announce the senate had passed a $40 billion emergency appropriations bill and passed it unanimously. that day the country came together as it had not done since world war ii. it made us proud to know what we could do when we had to. it brought out our best. put aside who is right and who is wrong in the current debate and ask yourself, can anyone really be proud of the side of america this argument is bringing out? back in a minute.

and that's our broadcast. watch "60 minutes." tonight and see president obama's interview with steve kroft. thanks. we'll be back right here sunday. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

coming up on this week in defense. how the united states can get better at implementing national security strategies and the looming threat of bioterrorism. it will devastate food production. deplete water supplies worldwide. millions of climate refugees on the move and social and political upheaval will create breeding grounds for war and terrorism. scientists and military experts agree.