tv 60 Minutes CBS April 11, 2010 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT
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second shot into 13 was incredible and played solid coming in. he has been through a hard time and he deserves a break or two. >> you have come so close in major championships recently. what do you think is missing? is it something where you feel like this is what i need to do to get over the hump? >> i think i need to just keep doing what i am doing. finished second or third in the last three majors. >> you went through a slump during your career. was there doubt you might not get back to get this type of opportunity? >> there was a time i didn't want to go out and play and practice. having been through that bad patch, i can appreciate what it is like to play better than most people out here. when i am playing like this and contending for major championships, i feel like a
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lucky man. >> when you look back will be a disappointment or will you consider it a success because you were able to contend again? >> i think when you come as close as i did today there is a tinge of disappointment but that doesn't last long. phil said he kept finishing second and third. it is one of those days i will get the break and i will become a major champion. >> you had a great week. thanks so much. let's go down to butler cabin and join jim nantz. >> thank you, bill. at this point right here, mickelson on the 12th, the hole that really damaged his cause last year. he made birdie at the 12th. and this most daring, fearless shot at the 13th.
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the top 16 all will return to the 2011 masters. that will be especially meaningful for some on this list as you can see the top seven here. that would be and to the likes of ricky barnes, who tied for 10th and jerry kelly. ryan moore and steve marino finishes in the top 16 in his masters debut. it is time now for the green jacket presentation. for that, we go down to butler cabin. >> hi. i am billy payne. jim, congratulations on a great week and a wonderful, wonderful
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25 years. jim: what a day this was. >> jim and i will repeat the long-standing tradition of the award of the masters champion green jacket. before we do i would like to take this opportunity to thank our television viewers across america and in over 200 countries around the world for your long-term and loyal support of the masters. i now welcome three very special gentleman with wonderful smiles on their faces. this year's low amateur, our new champion, phil mickelson and last year's champion, angel cabrera. congratulations. phil, proud of you, sir. angel, good to see you, sir. please have a seat. i know jim has a few questions. jim: we want to recognize the amateur, a long time tradition here. to be the youngest player to ever compete here and now the youngest player to make the cut, how special is it for you?
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>> it was a very special week for me. i came here without expectations. i just wanted to enjoy. actually i enjoyed it a lot but i also played good. it was even better for me. where jim: for 16, pretty sensational. you are going to turn professional soon? >> yes. three weeks, the first week of may. jim: we wish you well. congratulations on a great showing here at the masters. we turn now to phil mickelson. in butler cabin as the third time winner. i know they are all special and sweet, but how about this one today? >> jim, it feels incredible. i can go on and on. but to win this tournament it is the most amazing feeling. this has been a special day. i will look back on this day as very memorable. jim: there were so many shots you played out there that was
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remarkable. you didn't have a single bogey. up and downs that were special. the daring efforts at 13 and the shot over the water at 15 as well. what was on your mind? >> i needed to make birdies. when we get to the birdie holes we had to do something. the key was 12. i knew that putt. i ended up making that giving me an advantage. fortunately i was able to reach those in two and make 1/3ies. jim: we talk about dedications victories sometimes in sports. how much was that on your mind to go win one for the family? >> it has been an emotional year. i am proud of the fight and struggle my wife has been through. it has been a difficult year. to come out on top in this tournament is very emotional. jim: looked like you didn't want to let go of her. for her to come out and see the
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finish, i know it is one of the greatest memories of your career. >> it is one of the best things that we have gone through. in the last year we have been through a lot. it has been tough. to be on the other end and feel this jubilation is incredible. jim: congratulations. billy, time for the green jacket. >> yes, sir. angel, if you will do the honor. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> congratulations. >> it fits. jim: it a week that had so many storylines that it is impossible to define. it began with such a and setting on thursday morning, 80-year-old arnold palmer joined on the first tee my 70-year-old jack nicklaus. did we know a soon to be
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40-year-old come sunday evening would be the man who would ultimately define this week, joining sam snead and jimmy demarot, gary player and nick faldo as ones who have won three green jackets. it has always been about the family for phil. green may be the primary color but today it was imbued with pink. he electrified everyone yesterday and today it was all about emotion. congratulations, phil. you are again the masters champion. k1ñ óó [ male announcer ] when you look closely
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the story more closely than the f.b.i. it's the first extended tv interview john gotti jr. has done. he talks about his life as a gambino crime family and following in the footsteps of his father, the dapper don, john gotti, certain. >> obviously he spent a lot of time in prison for murder. how can you justify that? >> i don't know if you can justice murder but i can make some type of argument. you want to hear it? >> sure. >> okay. >> the unveiling was a major happening this past thursday. >> ladies and gentlemen, there is a new species of human ancestor. >> he lived almost three million years ago and his skull is so well preserved you can count his teeth, which are very much like ours. he was found by a 9-year-old boy and he could change our understanding of where we came from. we were given rare access to the discovery, which is already being described as one of the
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most remarkable of our time. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bob simon. >> i'm morley safer. >> i'm byron pitts. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories and andy rooney tonight on "60 minutes." makcoespd i mt akhaestho ea br eai'thm inbr i c anso j ioi cn anth jeu . nn ou nc(aernn)ou a ncco wpdit,h cl ud ison,chitis, em phys emema,ph oysrem a, onews. ad n re gca vair hadelvapsir s higelnipse o va air iadom m osfrt omot mhe caus e beth a n boanthti a-in ni
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la'tce r st -a ctfa caus e beth a n boanthti a-in ni y ha vema ay hhaigvepncec reaspo orostsieosporosis a d so mean e pr meey do yctouorr idof ctyooru i f yoonondition or h ig h orbl hooigd h prbla adi' ym ougl ycaoume gl ad or h ig h orbl hooigd h prbla adi' ym ougl ycaoume gl ad is c soptid llis m saktiinllg m ak,reathe, nn(ou nc(airyostur ll p refu d as. slim-fast gives you proven weight loss, not celebrities. introducing the new slim-fast 3-2-1 plan. the clinically proven way to lose weight now. slim-fast. who has time to slim slowly? sfx: car crashing ♪
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♪ this is onstar. i've received a signal you've been in a crash. i'll contact emergency services. >> kroft: for nearly three decades, the name "gotti" has been synonymous with organized crime in america. according to the federal government, john gotti, sr., and later, his son, john, jr., ran the gambino crime family, the largest, most influential mafia family in the country.
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gotti, sr., who died in prison eight years ago, was a ruthless gangster who craved celebrity. the son, if you are to believe his story, wanted out, and john gotti, jr. wants people to believe his story. after the federal government put him on trial four times in the last five years without getting a conviction, he agreed to sit down with us and talk about his family saga in his first extended television interview. he wanted to be the only person we talked to on camera for this story, and to have his lawyer by his side to make sure he didn't say anything that could be used to indict him again, because no one is likely to be watching this story more closely than the f.b.i. >> john gotti, jr.: he was my cause. my father was my cause. if my father wasn't in that life, i probably wouldn't have been in the street life, either. whatever he was is what i wanted to be. and if he decided the next day, "you know what? i don't like this anymore, i'm
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going to be a butcher," i would tell him, "i hope you have a smock for me." that's the way i feel. that's the way i felt. >> kroft: you can tell he still worships his father. >> gotti: handsome as ever. handsome as ever. >> kroft: not just with the love of a son, but with some of the same misguided romanticism that has long drawn the news media and the public to the mob culture. and john gotti, sr. was the most famous mobster of his generation. he ascended to the top of the gambino crime family by organizing the assassination of his predecessor, paul castellano, outside a popular manhattan steak house. it was stylistic statement that gotti, sr. would accentuate with $2,000 italian suits and hand- painted ties, earning him a certain brand of celebrity, and a nickname, "the dapper don." in new york, a city that worships power of any kind, gotti's reached beyond gambling and loan-sharking into the garment center, the garbage business, and the construction
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industry. and he wanted everyone to know what he did, as long as they couldn't prove it. now, a friend of your father's told me there is nothing he loved better than being a gangster. >> gotti: nothing. nothing. >> kroft: what did he love about it? >> gotti: everything. there was nothing he didn't like about it. my father lived that life 24/7. 24/7. in fact, his wife and kids were second to the streets. he loved it. he loved the code. he loved the action. >> kroft: was that more important than money? >> gotti: he hated money. he used to say, if a guy was saving money or putting money away, and he was a street guy, he would say, "what's on his mind? what has he got planned? you know, at the end of the day, we're all going to jail. what's he going to do with that money?" ( laughter ) >> kroft: is that the way he looked at life? >> gotti: he felt that anybody who really truly lived in the streets-- not the fringe
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players, not the frauds, not the pretenders. if you really, truly lived it like john did, at the end of the day, you got to die or go to jail. that's the rules. that's the way it was. >> kroft: it was part of the gangster ethos that permeated the working class italian neighborhoods of new york 50 years ago, where john, jr. grew up with his brothers, frank and peter, and sisters victoria and angel. his father was absent for most of their childhood, serving a stretch at lewisburg penitentiary for cargo hijacking. junior was told his dad was off on business, but all the kids teased him that he didn't really have a father, until one day in 1972 when his father came home from prison. >> gotti: almost on cue, this brown lincoln continental mach 4 with smoked windows, at the time when nobody had smoked windows, comes rolling down the street. and it stops right by me. then, the window rolls down. and i turn and i says, "there's my father." everybody was in shock. he goes, "where's the house?" because he didn't know where we lived.
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so i says, "the second house with the corner with the green awning, dad. i'll see you over there." and he pulls away. he's got chocolate brown suit on with a chocolate brown overcoat and a cream colored mock neck. and he looks the part. he's beautiful. he looks beautiful. everybody came out on the block to see him. and he turns down the block and gives like... like a regal wave, you know. gives one of those waves, and he goes in like he owned the place, like he always belonged there, like it was... always was his. >> kroft: did he talk about what he did for a living? >> gotti: no, he didn't sit at the table and say, "you know, by the way, my take from the numbers rackets are up this week," you know? it didn't go like that. >> kroft: and he didn't have conversations like that with the... with some of his friends. >> gotti: no. other than my father being away from home, you know, being incarcerated, and the hours that he kept, our house was a pretty normal house. >> kroft: gotti says it wasn't until he was 14, when he was shipped off to boarding school at the new york military academy, that he found out exactly who his father was and what he did.
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and he learned it while watching a news program with his fellow cadets. >> gotti: and i remember it was 1979. and we're watching a show, and they're saying, "this man's a captain in the gambino family," and this, that and the other thing. and they're talking about him. and i'm mortified. i'm in the back row, and i'm watching this. i'm not saying nothing. and they says, "john gotti," and they... and they're talking. so now, suddenly, the... the other cadets start turning to look at me, say, "he's got the same name as you." "yeah, he certainly does." another kid says, "hey, wait a minute, that guy was here last week." and at that point, you would... you... it's there, you know, there. now, it's all on the table, you know. >> kroft: what was the reaction of your classmates? >> gotti: i guess maybe some of them were intimidated. but most of them thought it was pretty cool. "does your father...," they said, "your father kill people? does your father beat people up?" "not around the house." >> kroft: at some point, you must have come to the realization that he did, outside of the house. >> gotti: probably.
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but in front of me? no. >> kroft: how did you... how do you, as a young man, react to that? >> gotti: i'm howard beach. i'm from howard beach. pretty much, we're taught, from a young age, that you don't call the cops for nothing. we take care of our own problems. and pretty much all your uncles, cousins, friends, father, they're all bouncing around the streets, in some shape or form. and this is the way it is. this is the way it is. >> kroft: you knew people were breaking the law. >> gotti: sure. sure. >> kroft: and what you're saying is that wasn't considered necessarily a bad thing? >> gotti: no. no, not at all. >> kroft: because? >> gotti: because everybody did it. you know what? the guy next to you was a car thief. the guy next to you on your left-hand side, he was a bookmaker. that's everybody. >> kroft: it was the summer after he graduated from military school that gotti discovered what he thought was his calling-
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- hanging around his father's headquarters at the bergin hunt and fish club. >> gotti: i'd go to the bergin hunt and fish club all the time. i wanted to be around him, and he had that kind of personality. and i would just watch. so you're sitting around the social club, and they'd be playing cards, and they're hanging out. and they're breaking balls, and cooking, and laughing, and commiserating, and everything's going on. and you're right there, and you're saying, "this is where i belong." >> kroft: but it wasn't all pinochle and pasta. and as these prison videos show, john gotti, sr. had a sadistic streak, even when dealing with his ten-year-old grandson, who he thought had showed him disrespect. >> john gotti, sr.: you will get an ass-kicking from me. i ain't your father or mother. i know how to raise children. from me, you'll get an ass- kicking you'll never... you will never forget the ass-kicking you will get from me. >> kroft: this one shows gotti telling his daughter how he would have dealt with an incident involving a neighbor. >> gotti, sr.: you should of went there and told the mother, "listen, you want me to tell my father? you want him to handle it his way? do you want to wake up in the morning and not see your son no more? is that what you desire?
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do you want us to cut his tongue out of his mouth?" >> kroft: and you had the sense he could do it. he had a temper. >> gotti: volcanic. >> kroft: was that ever directed at you? >> gotti: when i got in trouble as a kid, once or twice, he'd give me a swift kick in the backside or... or a nice crack. yeah, sure. >> kroft: by 1982, john, jr. could dish it out as well as take it. according to law enforcement, he served a six-year apprenticeship learning the various rackets-- shakedowns, illegal gambling, loan-sharking, eventually drawing the attention of fbi surveillance cameras. in 1988, with the encouragement and strong endorsement of his father, john, jr. would become a "made man" in the gambino crime family. when you became a made man, when you were formally inducted in... into la cosa nostra, was that a... was that a big deal for him? >> gotti: you like the way that word sounds, "la cosa nostra"? how it flows on your tongue? >> kroft: no, i... i'm trying to
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find another word. you... you don't like "mob," you don't like "mafia." >> gotti: i was a street guy. i was in the streets. >> kroft: okay. >> gotti: and, you know, when my father embraced me, put his arm around me and looked at me as a street guy, as a knock-around guy, a bounce-around guy like himself, proudest moment of my life. was proudest moment of my life, because i was slowly becoming like him. >> kroft: so, when you were finally made, he was happy. >> gotti: i think he was very happy. i think he was as proud as a father would be if his son just made all-american. >> kroft: he would soon trade in his t-shirts for suits, and graduate from the mob rank of soldier to captain, according to the f.b.i., in charge of his own crew. the only person unhappy with his new career was his mother. >> gotti: she didn't talk to my father for a couple of years as a result of that.
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she looked at it as, "i left a son in the street." you know, "my son frankie died in my arms at 12 years old." she took it personal. the death of junior's younger brother, frank, in a traffic accident was considered the most traumatic event in the family's history, and it would have serious consequences for the neighbor who killed him. what happened, exactly? >> gotti: he was riding a mini- bike. unfortunately, he jetted out into the street, coming off the belt parkway. and a car hit him, car hit him and killed him. >> kroft: what was the effect on your father? >> gotti: he didn't show much emotion. but my bedroom, the vent was attached to his den, and i would hear him cry. i would hear him cry. >> kroft: the person that was driving the car... >> gotti: right.
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>> kroft: ... disappeared. >> gotti: correct. >> kroft: do you think that was something your father was involved in? >> gotti: probably. knowing john and how he was and how he felt about a lot of things, especially regarding his own children, he probably was. do i know with certainty? no, i don't know. he'd never discuss that with me, never discussed it with me. but knowing my father, there's no way you're going to hurt one of his without him hurting you. it's just not going to happen. there's just no way. it's not going to happen. >> kroft: it would not have been the first or the last time that john gotti, sr. had someone killed, but it took a long time for someone to prove it. despite years of video and audio surveillance, the fbi needed the testimony of gotti's underboss, mob rat sammy "the bull" gravano, to finally put the dapper don away for five gangland slayings. obviously, he spent a lot of time in prison for murder. how do you justify that? >> gotti: i don't know if you
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can ever justify murder. i don't know if you can justify it, but i can make... i can make some type of an argument. you want to hear it? >> kroft: sure. >> gotti: john was a part of the streets. he swore that that was his life. he swore, "i'm going to live and die by the rules of the streets, the code of the streets." and everybody that john's accused of killing or may have killed or wanted to kill or tried to kill was a part of that same street. that was a part of the same world, same code. and my father has always said, in his mind, "you break rules, you end up in a dumpster." "if i break rules"-- meaning himself-- "they're going to put two in my hat and put me in a dumpster. that's the way it works." so, am i justifying it? no, i'm explaining it. >> kroft: and you were comfortable living in that world? >> gotti: when you don't know much else, yeah. yeah, i guess so. i guess so. when you don't know much else, i guess so. >> kroft: you thought you were capable of killing somebody? >> gotti: i don't think anybody... i don't know if anybody ever thinks of themselves as capable of killing anybody, until they're put into
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that position. >> kroft: you know, i want to ask you, "have you ever killed anybody?" but you're not going to answer that question, are you? >> gotti: first of all, it's a ridiculous question. second off, if you go by the government, who didn't i kill? >> kroft: with his father in prison for life, federal investigators turned their attention to junior, who they say became the acting boss and de facto head of the gambino family, a title and characterization that gotti and his lawyer charles carnesi quibble with. >> gotti: i was my father's son, i'd be his eyes and ears. i'd handle the lawyers, i'd handle the monetary issues, to a point. >> kroft: would it be incorrect to say that you were the acting head or the head of the gambino family after your father went to prison? >> charlie carnesi: i don't think that... that that's the title that john ever accepted. i think that's something that law enforcement may been suggesting.
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i think it may have been, at one point in time, his father's desire for him to succeed him. >> gotti: i more or less call myself a loyal son. that's my title. that's a title i like. >> kroft: it is a fine but important linguistic distinction under federal racketeering law. if john gotti, jr. were to acknowledge that he had responsibility for running a criminal enterprise like la cosa nostra, he could be prosecuted for any criminal act committed by that group during his tenure, regardless of whether he was directly involved. did you ever talk to him about any of this stuff? >> gotti: no. no. my father tried his best to shelter me from certain things. >> kroft: i mean, that seems kind of hard to believe. >> gotti: there was no communication between my father and i regarding that. there was none. >> kroft: in part, because the conversation would have been recorded. >> gotti: absolutely. absolutely. >> kroft: gotti says all of his
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business conversations with his father were relayed through emissaries. whatever you call that "loyal son period"-- which lasted for seven years-- it did not go smoothly. when authorities found $358,000 in the basement of his home, along with a list of recently inducted mafia members, his father was taped calling his son an imbecile, and the new york tabloid press had a field day. they used to make fun of you, that they used to say that you weren't ready for the job. people were unhappy with you. that you were kind of the dopey don. did any of that get to you? >> gotti: no. not at all. not at all. first of all, every time the gottis were in the tabloids on the front page, the sales would go up about 8%, i believe. and that's proven. it was 8% or 10% increase in sales. so, it... >> kroft: for the paper? >> gotti: for the paper. so, it made a good read. who cares? "dopey don." who cares? have fun with it. >> kroft: but over time, gotti says, he began to have second thoughts about the life he had chosen.
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when did you begin to sour on this whole thing? >> gotti: before i had my children, i really didn't care if i died in jail. but then once you have children, your perspective completely changes. now, you live your life for them. and i looked at my son and i looked at my daughter, i looked at my other son, all my children. and i would say to myself, "wow, if i'm gone, what are they going to do?" >> kroft: by the late 1990s, he learned that the federal government was preparing to file charges against him for racketeering, and he began to wonder whether he had the stomach for the job. i mean, there was a lot of treachery. >> gotti: oh, absolutely. there's treachery in every... there's treachery in the corporate world. equally... i have to say, i can't say "more so"-- equally so in the streets. >> kroft: still, it was dealt with a little differently on the streets, though? >> gotti: careers are made and broken. guys are bankrupted. yeah, i can see where you're going with this. ( laughter ) >> kroft: did you ever worry about getting whacked?
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>> gotti: every day. every day. that's a possibility. it's a possibility that something could happen to you every day of your life. and you know something? when... when you hang out in the streets, you're hanging with a different type of a person. you know, you don't know what's going to happen. you know, you can be with... tony's here today, then tony's doing ten years tomorrow. billy's here today, and then you never see him again. who knows? anything's possible. it's a volatile existence. >> kroft: when we come back, telling his father he wanted out of the family business. >> and good evening. the european union offered greece a $40 billion bailout at below market rates. u.s. regulators may impose a second penalty on toyota on top of last week's $16.4 million fine. and it's a virtual tie at the
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i always wanted to make a whole city out of toothpicks. so after being unemployed for like, 3 months, i had been toothpicking. and then a museum in spain got interested in it, and then they bought it. i'm just a giant kid at heart. and so to do something, like play with toothpicks, and make a living at it, it is definitely an aha moment where i never thought i'd be doing this. [ female announcer ] mutual of omaha. proud sponsor of life's aha moments.
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>> kroft: in 1998, john gotti jr. was indicted by a grand jury and arrested by fbi agents on federal racketeering charges stemming from his role as the acting head of the gambino crime family. after a series of negotiations with the government and nine months in jail, gotti, jr. decided he wanted to enter a guilty plea, serve his time, and hopefully retire from a life in organized crime. but to do so, he felt like he needed the blessing of his dying father, john gotti, sr., who was serving a life sentence for murder. he received permission from a federal judge to travel to the u.s. medical center for federal prisoners in springfield missouri, for a face to face meeting with his ailing father. it was taped by prison officials, and would be the last
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time the two would ever see each other. the extraordinary meeting took place in a prison conference room, with the father, badly disfigured by surgery for throat, neck and mouth cancer, sitting directly across the table from his son, who wanted to turn his back on a life his father had pulled him into. >> gotti: and my father starts off by saying, "i received a message that john wants closure." and i looked at my father-- and again, we're being monitored, so we have to be very careful how we communicate. >> kroft: he says the agenda had been discussed with his father in advance by family attorney joe corrazo, and that closure meant not just pleading guilty, but quitting the mob. the don responded by making fun of the word. >> gotti, sr.: joseph told me john wants "closure." i said, "joseph, that word is not in my son's vocabulary. that's overeducated, under- intelligent mother [no audio], that word 'closure.' it's a new '90s word that i don't like."
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>> kroft: for gotti, sr., the idea of giving in went against everything he believed in. >> gotti: he's, you know, fight, fight, fight. if you accuse me robbing the church, and the steeple's sticking out of my backside, i'm going to deny it. and i can't reach him. and not only that-- with the closure, he talked me out of the plea. i know your feelings, dad. i would follow you off a cliff. i'd follow you off a cliff. >> kroft: john jr. left the prison and returned to new york, where he told his attorney to begin preparing a defense. >> gotti: and then, last minute, the day we're picking the jury, i sat there. i left the house that morning, getting ready for trial. and i saw my wife, and i saw my kids, and i saw my whole family, and i says, "i got to try to end this. i got to try to end this." and i went and spoke to my lawyers. and i says, "get me the... i'll take the plea." >> kroft: what did you plead
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guilty to? >> gotti: racketeering. >> kroft: specifically? >> gotti: i believe it was extortion in the construction industry-- gambling, taxes, loan-sharking. >> kroft: all things you did? >> gotti: things i did do, yes. correct. i was a loan shark. the fact that most of my customers joined witsec pretty much bankrupted me in the loan- sharking business. >> kroft: joined what? >> gotti: the witness protection program. >> kroft: oh, right. >> gotti: they chased me out of that industry but quick. >> kroft: gotti took the plea, believing the government would leave him alone once he had paid his debt to society, and that he would be able to quit the gambino family and get on with his life. well, first of all, did you think you could get out? did you think people would let you out? >> gotti: sure. why not? sure. why... why couldn't i? >> kroft: well, because there's this old saw. i mean, it was part of one of your trials, that you can't get out of the mob. you can't get out of the life.
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>> gotti: who said? >> kroft: all the movies. ( laughter ) it's all the lore. >> gotti: yeah, the movies. it... it makes great reading, you know. >> kroft: the federal government. >> gotti: and what makes them an authority on this? >> kroft: gotti was serving his six and a half year sentence at the ray brook prison in upstate new york, much of it in solitary confinement, when his father died. when he had the opportunity to make phone calls, they went to his wife and children in long island, and not his gambino family. he even arranged for regular parent-teacher conferences with his son's school. >> gotti: i made them, in chains, drag me out of my cell every friday. and they put me in a room, belly-chained and handcuffed, and i had a conference, a parent-teacher conference every friday at 2:00 with my son frankie's school, every friday. and it's the only time they ever heard me. if they forgot me to come get me for that call, that's the only time i bucked. i would buck in jail when i did that. otherwise, i was a model inmate. >> kroft: but his deal with the federal government didn't work out the way he had intended. you thought you were a free man when you got out?
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>> gotti: absolutely. >> kroft: but it didn't turn out that way? >> gotti: no, it didn't turn out that way. it was several weeks before i was supposed to get released, and they indicted me again. >> kroft: the new racketeering charges alleged that john, jr. had ordered an attack 12 years earlier on curtis sliwa, a talk show host and anti-crime crusader who had railed against his father. sliwa was shot in a new york taxi cab and seriously wounded, but survived. gotti denied any involvement. the case was tried three times, each one ending in a mistrial with the jury deadlocked. >> gotti: after i wasn't convicted, that's where it should have ended. then, it just kept on. so now, everybody was just putting a target on my back, and everyone was gunning for me. didn't matter how it was going to happen, but it had to happen. >> kroft: last year, he was indicted again, this time for allegedly participating in or authorizing three murders, all committed before 1992. gotti was held in jail for 16 months without bail awaiting trial on a case that was based almost exclusively on the word
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of former mafia associates who received sentence reductions or favorable considerations in exchange for their testimony. chief among them was john alite, a drug dealer and confessed killer, who said he had murdered three people on orders from gotti. there was a confrontation in the courtroom. >> gotti: right, right. >> kroft: with mister alite? >> gotti: yeah, after he testified, he got off the stand, and he walked towards me, and he smiled and laughed. and that's when i called him a punk and a dog. he always was a punk and a dog. he was a junkie. he was all of those things, miscreant. he was a trash pail then, he's a trash pail now, and he'll always be a trash pail. >> kroft: that trial also ended with a hopelessly deadlocked jury. today, gotti is a free man, and back living in his family's two- acre compound, with a swimming pool and stables, in the fashionable village of oyster bay, long island. this is a very nice piece of property. >> gotti: thank you. >> kroft: he claims the property was purchased with income from
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legitimate businesses, and the government has been unable to prove otherwise. he says it is heavily mortgaged, and he is deeply in debt after spending millions on his legal bills. he says the family is getting by on a modest income from commercial real estate properties. >> gotti: this little guy was born on the first day of jury selection in my third trial. >> kroft: at age 46, he is married, with six children ranging in age from three to 19, and trying to acclimate himself to normal family life. you a strict father? >> gotti: it's not easy to be a father of an 18 year old daughter. no... notice i threw "daughter" in. son, i can some, like, grab him by the arm and say, "come here. let me tell you something. let me read you the riot act." a daughter? what do you do? i don't know what to do. i can't grab her by the arm, read her the riot act. so i look at her and she tells me, she says, "mind your own business." if a guy told me that, i wouldn't have taken a backward step. so, i guess my parenting skills leave a lot to be desired in that respect. >> kroft: what do you think it's like for the boys that are going
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out with your daughter? >> gotti: she doesn't have any boyfriends. >> kroft: so people are afraid to ask her out? >> gotti: yes, it's awkward. and my daughter says... she keeps blaming it on me. "me? what did i do wrong? i just got here. what did i do wrong?" she says, "well, it's the reputation. they read the newspapers." "sweetie, i can't help that. i don't print those newspapers. i don't know what to tell you. i don't know what you want me to do." >> kroft: there are reasons to not want to get in trouble with this family, cross this family. >> gotti: maybe in the past, for what we were, yeah. now? yeah. you had to treat the women in our family a certain way, okay? i would never disrespect a man's daughter. i expect the same. that's the way it has to be. and if you don't, well, then you'll see a side of me that you hope you never saw. >> kroft: so you have this other side? >> gotti: yeah, i do. i do. i was never known to take a backward step in throwing his hands. i don't think that's changed. i still got my temper, unfortunately. >> kroft: gotti has explored the possibility of leaving the new york area for north carolina or florida, but some of his children are resisting.
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he has been working for several years on a book about his life, but don't expect him to bad- mouth the mob or the people who were loyal to him and his father. they know where he lives, and he says they were happy to let him go, just like he knew they would. it's more money for them. >> gotti: i'm blessed. blessed. >> kroft: why do you feel that way? you're alive. >> gotti: i'm alive. i'm free. my children are healthy, which is most important. i have the liberty to get up every morning and embrace my children, spend time with my family. i'm blessed. if tomorrow morning, i walked in and saw an oncologist and he told me, "you have terminal cancer," i'm ahead of the game. i can't complain. i won't complain. ♪
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>> simon: where do we come from? that's often the first question a child asks, and it has bedeviled scientists for centuries. well, today, we're a little bit closer to answering it. this past thursday, it was announced with great fanfare that the remains of a nine-year- old boy were found in south africa. he is almost two million years old. he's being called "sediba," which means source, and he stands somewhere on the road between ape and human. he lived in a period when our ancestors climbed down from the trees and started living on the ground. he belongs to a previously unidentified species, and anthropologists will be studying him for decades. before the announcement, we were
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given rare access to the discovery, which could be among the most important of our time. ( applause ) his unveiling was a major happening this past thursday, when he appeared at a press conference in johannesburg. >> professor lee berger: ladies and gentleman, there is a new species of human ancestor. >> simon: professor lee berger, an american paleoanthropologist at vits university, named him astralopithicus sediba. and the most astonishing thing about him is his skull. 1.9 million years old, so well preserved that you can count his teeth. so very much like ours. where did sediba live? in these hills, just 50 minutes from johannesburg, in what is called the cradle of humankind. after all, we humans came from africa. and scientists here have spent the better part of a century looking for fragments of our earliest ancestors. >> berger: there's probably nowhere else on planet earth
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that has a denser, better record of... of human origins than... than this land right here. >> simon: yet berger had been searching for fossils in caves here for years and hadn't found much of anything. so he started a mapping project using a very modern tool, google earth. he discovered some 500 caves in the region, which no scientists had ever explored. >> berger: and then i started walking. and i walked a lot, hundreds of kilometers. >> simon: berger was walking through the malapa nature reserve with his trusted dog tau, his nine-year-old son mathew, and his colleague, job kibii. and you came up with mathew and job. >> berger: that's right. >> simon: sounds like a biblical expedition. >> berger: it...( laughs ) it does, doesn't it? >> simon: they came across a cave, and that was the beginning of an astonishing series of events. >> berger: i literally said, you
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know, "here's the site. there are bones here. let's look around." mathew got up, ran over in that direction. a minute and a half later, he called me. >> simon: mathew found something which he knew would excite his father. >> mathew berger: here's a rock that looks about the same size, and when i turned it over, there was a fossil. >> berger: i looked at that fossil in that rock and knew exactly what he had found. >> simon: he had found a clavicle, a collar bone. >> berger: that clavicle alone would've been a great find. it would have been enough for me, certainly. you know, most people who do what i do, do what job do go through their entire careers and never find even a single piece. i had found a few dozen fragments-- i mean, fragments-- before this. >> simon: it gets even better. on the other side of the rock, there was a jawbone... and a tooth. a canine. >> job kibii: that was amazing.
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we would turn to the clavicle. we high-fived. we turned to the canine. because we knew that we have hit a jackpot. the site is... >> simon: you hit the jackpot. >> kibii: yeah. >> simon: hitting the jackpot without even digging. why was it so easy? a hundred years ago, miners blasted these caves, scattering rocks and unearthing fossils-- fossils including a skull. you found it... >> berger: right here. it was lying on its side, sticking out of the wall in this area. its body's, in fact, all the way up there. its foot is still in the rock just up at the top, there. >> simon: berger sent the rocks to his lab at the university of witwatersrand, where workers began painstakingly extracting the fossils. the dating of the rocks showed they were around 1.9 million years old. analysis of the bones revealed that what the scientists had in their hands was not one skeleton, but two. a nine year old boy and a 30
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year old woman. >> richard leakey: i... i think it really is a most remarkable set of finds, and... and particularly the quality. i don't think we've found anything like this before. >> simon: when richard leakey, the world's most renowned paleoanthropologist, examined the bones, he said they were almost too much to digest. >> leakey: it... it was a "wow" experience. i mean, there's a lot of stuff there. and it's spectacular. it is so full of information, so much data, that when, you know, i had to say to him after... after an hour, i said, "lee, i've had enough." >> simon: lee is still finding bones in that cave. has he struck a gold mine? >> leakey: yes, he's... he's got a treasure trove. no question, a treasure trove. >> simon: back at the site, berger and a team of geologists were trying to figure out exactly what had happened 1.9 million years ago. what had these creatures been doing? berger's best guess-- they were searching for water and
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accidentally fell into this cave. >> berger: this is a single event. this is not something that happened over years or decades or hundreds of years, which is often the case with other fossil sites. this is a moment in time. it happened in seconds, minutes, days or weeks. >> simon: how do you know that? >> berger: because it's one single unit of geology. everything is together, and everything is articulated so that, you know, almost for the first time in history, we can tell you that these two individuals looked each other in the eyes when they were alive 1.9 million years ago. >> simon: a glance frozen in a fossil? berger thinks so. but he's been accused in the past of letting his imagination roam a little too freely. nonetheless, he says it's probable that these two creatures were related. >> berger: they are just primates, like we're just primates. primates live in troops, and these troops are very often related to each other.
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>> simon: could they speak to each other? >> berger: i don't know whether they could speak to each other. but maybe we'll know one day. >> simon: did they have tools they could use together? >> berger: given what we're seeing in their shape and form, there's no real reason to suggest that they might not be capable of manufacturing complex stone tools. >> simon: fire? >> berger: my guess, probably not. >> simon: but whatever they could or could not do, they are some of the rarest objects on earth. their value-- priceless. for berger, the thrill is putting the bones, the jigsaw puzzle, back together. >> berger: it's like reconstructing her life. >> simon: and young sediba? his relatively long legs tell us that he could walk, and run, on two feet. his long arms and powerful hands suggest that he also felt at home in trees. and what about his skull? i get very nervous to see it
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coming out of the box. >> berger: ( laughter ) isn't it extraordinary? there's a face from 1.9 million years ago. >> simon: how old is moses? >> berger: a few thousand years. nothing compared to this... >> simon: a few seconds. >> berger: a few seconds in the relation to the time this has been around. it's almost... it's almost a work of art, isn't it? >> simon: but how do you compare this work of art to something more contemporary? you told me before that this chap is 40 years old, and this chap is almost two million years old. how do you compare them? >> berger: you can see that little sediba has a nose here. the face is very similar in shape. and even, surprisingly, the teeth are almost the same size. >> simon: sediba's brain is smaller than ours, but larger than an ape's. berger calls him a hybrid, a strange mixture, an entirely new species. what is special about this species? >> berger: oh, well, this one doesn't just fall in that bi
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