9 news now will not be seen at this time so we can bridge you the following special presentation. from 9 news now, "washington post" live and wamu 88.5, this is a special campaign 2010 presentation. the maryland gubernatorial debate. >> welcome to the maryland gubernatorial debate. i'm mary jordan, editor of "washington post" live. the division of the newspaper that host forums and conferences. today our media partners are wusa channel 9, which is broadcasting this live, and wamu, 88.5, which will air it tonight at 8 p.m. we are also streaming live right now at the "washington post" post live.com and we are encouraging viewers to submit questions and some of them will

be posed to the candidates over the next hour. thank you, governor martin o'malley and former governor ehrlich for coming today to answer our questions. just 19 days before voters go to the polls and decide which of you will be the governor for the next four years. this is a matchup of two people very familiar with each other. martin o'malley, a democrat who's been governor of maryland since 2007 and bob ehrlich, republican, who was the governor from 2003 to 2007. i guess you really like this job, both of you [ laughter ] >> some would question our sanity. >> i will moderate today's debate and i'm joined on the panel by two well-known broadcast journalists, derek mcginty, anchor of wusa and greg bush, wamu 88.5's maryland reporter. our debate will last one hour and we have a live audience here at the "washington post" building and we have asked them

to hold their applause until the end. the candidates have kindly agreed not to filibuster and to cut their remarks when we have asked them to move on. i thank you in advance for trying to be succinct. we know politician and reporters and all of us will try to keep on point. so now we will start with opening statements. one minute 30 seconds. governor o'malley won the coin toss and elected to go second. so governor ehrlich. >> mary, thank you. i want to thank the sponsors of the debate, particularly the post, mary, market, thank you very much. i have brought two ladies with me today that are integral to my life, mary cane our lieutenant governor is sitting in the front row. mary, thank you for being here and my first lady, kendall ehrlich, thank you, babe for being here. we have a minute for opening statements and we will get in to the substance of this debate. i want to be governor again. i love this state and it's

important, obviously because governors are quite impactful, 6.5 million people in the state of maryland. we have different definitions of progress in this state. over the past four years, we have seen a lot of job loss in the state. we have doubled unemployment, 3,000 small businesses shut. the largest tax increase in maryland i history and driven debt to historic highs. i believe we can do better. we have done better during our tenure. we can create jobs. we can lower taxes and we can retire our debt. the bottom line to today's debate is about who you trust. we have seen a lot of negative ads out there. it is a silly time. some of these ads are just over the top. and we are going to talk about those ads today and taste that's why, mary i appreciate the opportunity to have this confrontation and debate about the issues of the day and ads that have been running. who do you you trust to lead the state forward over the next four years? it is my pleasure and honor,

humble, obviously to represent this state in 2003 to 2007. governor, thank you for being here today. i look forward to our debate this morning at the "washington post." >> thank you. >> governor o'malley. >> thank you so my wife and kids for being here, as well. i want to begin by thanks the people of maryland. i want to thank you for giving me the honor of serving you during these very challenging and difficult timeses for every maryland family and every maryland business. but as a national recession comes to a close, maryland is moving forward. we are creating jobs again, and we are creating them here in maryland by retooling our economy through invasion and education and we are doing it better than most states, but we have a lot of hard work ahead of us. that's why you have an important and clear choice to make at a critical time. the choice is whether we move forward to better days, or whether we slip back. and i humbly ask for your support to move maryland forward. every decision that i have

made, over the course of the last four years and moving forward, will be based on one interest and one interest only, and that is what is best for the people of maryland. i have fought every battle on your side, standing up to big banks and big mortgage companies, for moms and dads fighting to keep their homes out of foreclosure, standing up to big utility companies for maryland consumers with fiscal discipline and decisiveness we have cut spending more than any other governor has over a four year period of time and brought people together to protect the priorities that allow us to make this transformation, a change in to a new economy. improving education, making college more affordable, investing in invasion, making tough decisions guide by science that are working to improve the health of the chesapeake bay and a vision for transportation that includes mass transit so we can grow in smarter, cleaner, greener, more sustainable ways. i love our state and i'm optimistic about the better

future you and i have by moving forward now. >> great. now we will begin with a series of questions on jobs an the economy in general. this is, again by coins to toss. the first question will be answered by governor o'malley. voters have been clear about one thing. they want more jobs. can each of you tell us what is something new -- what is your best, most innovative idea for creating new jobs, again, something new, something not out there right now. governor o'malley? >> we are doing a number of things to harness this invasion in our economy and state, mary. we sit in a corridor of science, discovery, healing and learning the likes of which with with the quality of life we have exists in few other places so we have to create jobs, save jobs and we have been holding on to our job base better than most other states and are creating new jobs. this year, so far, we have had the best year so far of net new

job creation we have had since 2007. >> can you talk about something we haven't seen now to get more people employed? >> yes. >> okay [ laughter ] >> and part of the reason for this. -- the private sector is where jobs are created but there are things we have done as a state and in advance of other states we created a $5,000 tax credit for any business that hires aers and off unemployment roles and gets them back to work and pushing a new idea of invest maryland where we allow large insurance companies to forward pay their tax liabilities at a discount and invest those in to creating more venture capital in the maryland venture fund for startup businesses in our state. we have put together the largest public-private partnership of any state last year in order to modernize the port of baltimore. so when the bigger ships can come through the panama canal they don't pass by maryland but instead maryland is a winner in

global trade an a winner in the new economy. those are a number of things, along with increasing our biotech tax credit, extending the research and development tax credit and launched an initiative called bio 20/20, which is $1.3 billion vision to increase maryland's lead in biotechnology. we have moved up in the course of the recession from fourth to second place in biotech and the jobs created at metimmune and human genome sciences and we have the same thing to do where cybersecurity is concerned. senator mikulski is part of the and we are moving forward to make sure the jobs stay here and are filled with maryland workers. >> a small business bill of rights because small business owners are hammered in the state of maryland today. you know it. we have been hammered. we have one of the most hole host tile business environments in the country wretch close to 50 with regard to our business

climate. i have had 70 to 75 small business round tables around the state of maryland over the last year. thousands of small business people step forward with regard to your agencies. they are getting hammered. they are treated like a sheriff. not as a partner. when you call a state agency, when you ask a state agency for help, you should be treated as a partner. for the folks out there, the most small business people are interested in contract making a buck, creating a business, expanding their business and creating jobs in the state of maryland. we have lost jobs in this state and 3,000 small businesses have shuttered the last three years we have the most hostile regulatory and tax environment in the country with regard to the r and d tax credit research and development, they were our initiatives. >> can you talk about what you would do as governor to create jobs. >> a small business bill of rights with regard to the impact that these agencies have on business, on business

people, entrepreneurs in our state. small business should be able to get a consistent enanswer and a quick answer with feedback from the private sector today is we don't get those answers. we don't get consistent answers. we get hostility. our unemployment trust fund is broken. the regulatory environment, which is directly the responsibility of the governor, not the legislature, it's the executive branch of government. it's very broken in our state, and that's not my opinion, that's the direct feedback from the small business community in the state. they deserve a small business bill of rights. they deserve to have time frames put on state officials to give them consistent answers with regard to their questions about state regulation and state law. >> reporter: thank you. >> governor o'malley, i want to follow up on something that governor ehrlich said in terms of maryland ranking -- in terms of your tax friendliness to business. you are ranked 45th according to the tax foundation and virginia next door is ranked 15th for example. virginia's unemployment rate is

4.8% and yours is a half point higher. you are going to be a job's governor, shouldn't you be friendlier to business in your state? >> we have friendly to business. in fact we are not for business none of us would be able to protect our homes and have jobs. the better indicator of whether a state is good for business is whether or not as we come out of the recession we are actually creating jobs, whether we are making the investments and protecting the investments in the greatest assets that an invasion economy has, and that's our people. all of these rankings -- let me give you a couple more rankings. the u.s. chamber of commerce, mao hardly a mouthpiece for the maryland democratic party said that maryland ranks one of the top two best states in america for invasion and entrepreneurship. the kauffman foundation says that maryland ranks third on their new economy index. that is the ability to create and save jobs in to this new economy. so, if you stack up maryland's job retention over the recent

years we have held on to our job base better than most other states including better than virginia. if you look at the year so far, we are creating jobs at a faster clip, faster than virginia. so we are in a strong region. what we are not in competition with is the past. we are in competition to win the future, and there's going to be states that win and states that lose in this competition. and the ones that win will be those that protect their investments in the skills of their people, in making college more affordable rather than jacking it up 40% as my predecessor did. they will be the states that understand that invasion is what will create jobs for the future and if our people are going to fill those jobs we have to be improving education and creating more affordable college opportunities. >> derek, let me -- >> excuse me -- >> this question is for governor ehrlich. if you return to annapolis you propose repealing the sales tax increase that governor o'malley approved. that would mean a drop in revenue of hundreds of millions

of dollars in the state. give some specifics of how you will fill in that drop? >> let me take both questions together because they are relevant. our business environment has gotten hammered. those numbers that you suggest are true are true. we are a fly over state for corporate headquarters. virginia chamber of commerce made fun of us when we passed the tech tax that you signed in to law. we have had millionaires taxes, we have had wal-mart taxes, the fourth higher personal income tax rate in the country. we have become a tax hell for business folks and virginia is taking advantage of it. the maryland chamber of commerce yesterday, you may have seen the news this morning, governor, that we are now out of four in the mid- atlantic region with regard to any variety of business criteria. business people -- can we move on? >> sales tax is relevant to this. you pass the most aggressive tax that a governor could, a sales tax. it hurts poor people, working

people disproportionately. passed the largest tax increase in history. first of all, matt as a predicate i believe we will have more people consume in maryland so we don't have the tax loss that a static analysis would have you believe. i believe in dynamic analysis. when he passed the millionaire's tax they scored it at $106 million to be brought to the state. we lost $257 million. we lost 33% of our qualifying families and montgomery county particularly was hammered. class warfare is not good economics. it costs us job and business reputation and costs what we should be about. this state should be leading the country. with have the smartest people per capita, phds per capita, college graduates. a sales tax hurts retail maryland and border maryland. >> again, the question is, if it is dropped, from 6% to 5%, we are going to lose a lot of money. what do you do to make up the short fall. >> i don't believe we will lose that much money because people will consume more.

let's get to the budget. i suspect we will get in the budget here, as well. it has come time for real. governors around the country are talking real with regard to the budget. it is time for pension reform and we know it. although we have been kicking the can down the alley for years. at any particular time there is one to 4,000 empty funded job positions in maryland. we need an innovative governor as we did under the man dell commission and i believe you recall saying very positive things about the man dell commission and recommendation. >> thank you. we will move on. >> another question. >> we care about our tax and tort and regulatory environment. they are the constituent elements of what makes your state pro business or antibusiness. >> thank you. so we will go on now to a question from the on-line audience. we have gotten hundreds of questions and several of them asked both of you if you have any plans for youth programs or youth jobs. >> governor o'malley first? >> yes. and i believe the answer to the

last question asked repeatedly is he has no idea how he would make up the 700, 800 million [ laughter ] we have done a number of things thanks to president obama's courageous leadership in preventing our country from sliding in to the second great depression and i think all of us can agree we have lost a lot of jobs in our country. and we need to continue to work hard. but president obama helped us getting more summer jobs happening in our state and we have also created something called the civic conservation core in our state where we serve 600, 700 young people and get them doing important works in our parks and our state parks, repairing trails and streams and doing things of that nature. we work with all of our individual offices of employment development in order to get young people to work. we also are improving our career and technical education offerings that we have in our

high schools because in this new economy, where you have to earn in order to learn and learning is a life-long process, we want to make sure when our children come out of high school they have not only the ability to go on to college in terms of their levels, their scholastic levels but we want them to have the ability to get a job. and so those are a couple of things we have go done on youth -- we have done on youth jobs. >> i guess your idea of getting the budget corrected is to ask the federal government for more dollars which has been the mo in annapolis over the past four years and by the way, the spigot is stopping november 2nd. that's the message for the american people and the people of maryland, as well. with regard to jobs, it is all about jobs. jobs is the issue in this campaign. whether you are young or old. we want young people to stay in maryland. so, that jobs environment that we discussed earlier is a key for young, middle age people, they need retrained because their business may have closed 0 the economy changed.

i would ask respectfully every listener today, everyone watching on of the compare the jobs under our administration to the o'malley administration. under 4% unemployment, one of the best and fastest job creation records in the country. a very positive business reputation. when i was elected governor, the question to the business community was is maryland pro business, does maryland create jobs? the answer was in the low 30s. when i left the governorship it was in the 70s. it is now returned to the 30s because of the issues that we have talked about already in the debate. for young people to stay in the state we need to create a positive environment, a culture of entrepreneurship -- thank you, governor. we are going to close out the section with one question and move to another section. >> governor ehrlich, i have to ask you you have been criticizing governor o'malley over and over again saying he is going to raise taxes, but in a time when our economy is crazy, nobody can predict what is going to happen. does i make sense to issue a

blanket statement say nothing matter what happens if i have to furlough american workers for ten weeks i'm not going to raise taxes. >> $32 billion budget we do not raise taxes. you do not hammer taxpayers. you do not hammer small business people. you do not hammer entrepreneurs in one of the worst recessions in our country's history. national unemployment rate 9.5, maryland doubled over the last year. we have lost 3,000 small businesses. it's the last time you want to talk about even raising taxes. people are feeling the hurt. middle class, working class poor people have been really hit by the sales tax. by the increases in fees throughout our university! , increased 35% over the last four years them last thing the american taxpayer wants to hear today is about taxes. >> is that a no. >> that's a no. that's a blanket no and i'm the only candidate giving a blanket no. >> can i respond briefly. >> very briefly. >> the former governor's credibility on this issue is

nonexistent. he made the same pledges eight year ago when you got in you raised property tax and college tuitions by 40%. you raised 30 tolls and fees. you imposed a new tax called the flush tax. i don't recall you ever sending away one federal dollar that came to maryland at that time. and further more more, during your four years, we actually lost our share of the nation's jobs was actually declining. during these tough years our share of the nation's jobs have been rising and you are always talking down maryland. i don't think that is good for business. i don't think that's good for job creation. under your leadership you slip below the national average. >> thank you, governor. >> that's the stuff that's been on tv that drives people down, that depresses people that makes people cynical about politics and politicians. >> but those are things you did when you were chief executive of the state. >> you raised the property tax, bob. >> you know, governor. >> you raised 30 different

tolls and fees. you have the biggest increase in state spending of any governor. >> okay. >> i think we have. >> let senator ehrlich respond here. >> i think we have focused on the problem. the governor doesn't understand the fundamentals of state government. the state, it appears. >> please hold your applause and all comments. the governor doesn't set the tax rate. fees and not taxes have nothing to do with the general fund and by the way the largest fee is the chesapeake restoration act so i would ask you to tell the people of maryland how you claim to be an environmentalist and you run around to press conferences and claim credit for septic upgrades, sewer treatment plant upgrades and crops and where do you think those dollars come from the same fees you are campaigning against. with regard to college tuition,

let's talk about i. it is the subject of a lot of misreporting. 30 second attack ads on tv. the cost of tuition at a university system schools has gone up dramatically the last four years, not tuition, associated fees. like to talk about fees 35%. 16,000 to 22,000. >> thank you, both. we're going to move on to a section -- many of the viewers live in the washington area. they live in montgomery county, prince georges county, two of the largest jurisdictions that maryland has in our area. so i want to ask each of you to tell us one thing that you would do as governor over the next four years that would specifically benefit montgomery county, and then separate one thing that would specifically benefit prince georges county residents. governor o'malley, please begin. >> only one, huh? >> only one. just something you prompt to do that would really help montgomery county residents and

something that will help prince georges county. >> i can't talk about protecting record investments and public education and record investments. >> reporter: that's right. you can't. >> you can if you want. >> if i have to choose only one, and i can't pick those things for making college more affordable, i would say moving forward with a better balance and manassas moving forward with the purple line which will benefit both montgomery county and prince georges and prince georges county specifically is finding and forging the partnership that allows us to create a world-class hospital at prince georges county hospital for the future. >> reporter: great. thank you. please hold the applause until the end. governor ehrlich. >> i want to build the purple line in the way i can look you in the eye and say we can plan it. we can fund it. we can build it. and people will use it and that's obviously rapid bus and that was our planned alternative during our administration. governor o'malley can talk about light rail all day long.

red line to baltimore, pumple line in dc. can't fund it. can't tell you how he would fund it. it has been around for decades. like the itc you weren'tent too proud of when you were mayor and now suddenly you blessed it. ehrlich icc maybe the appropriate name for the road. >> you have jump odd them purple line talking able the importance of the line in montgomery and prince georges counties and you have different plans for it. yours is rapid bus and yours is light rail. why is your plan the more viable of the two? >> this is an interesting philosophical difference between u.s. and i understand why governor o'malley may support light rail. the fact is, however, if you look at what happened the last few years, what is happening in dc today, we have mass transit broken in maryland. we have marc broken and we have metro and metro matters an we funded metro matters and the

"washington post" gave you a hard time about your stance on metro matters in the past. and i can look you in the eye and say we can build it, we can fund it and people will use it. with regard to scarce resources in time we should fix what is broken first and then build what we can on time so people aren't cynical about waiting 60 years for the intercounty connector. people will use rapid bus. it will be popular. not everyone in this community is for the light rail alternative. we have a receive solve call difference on this issue. >> talk about light rail and why you think it is a better option. >> this has been the subject of a lot of engineering study and the subject of a lot of harings and the preferences from prince georges county, county executive ike leggett was for the purple line to be light light rail and the reason is this, while it is more expensive to build up front, it is less expensive to operate over the long term and it has a bigger economic and job

creating impact that is beyond just building of the line itself, which is why the greater washington board of trade has supported the purple line and why they supported our campaign, as well. so the purple line, doing it as a bus rapid transit is a metaphor for the former ehrlich administration. it's more expensive and less effective. so that's why we are in favor of the light rail. the way we build this is we have already put $90 million in to the six-year capital plan for the planning and engineering and design up front. the federal government will need to decide which of these lines go forward or if both go forward. the purple and red line in baltimore. what remains to be filled in is whether the not federal government will partner with us on a 50/50 basis or 80/20 basis and we will have to do a number of things to get it financed, including tax incremental

financing and looking a public- private partnerships like the one we pulled off in the port of baltimore but we still have the capacity to do meaningful and important things for our region. >> derek, you did not get an answer to your question. only thing that gets you there is massive tax increase or major infusion of dollars in transportation costs which you have not talked about. >> derek has a new question. >> we are talking about billions of dollars. >> let's talk about something you mentioned and that is the pension issue. >> yes. >> reporter: since 2002, maryland has never fully funded the pension of government workers and now you are 35 billion there's behind. and i don't see a plan from either one of you to how you are going to fix this over the next few years when budgets are as tight as they are. how are you going to come up with money to make sure they get their pension and health care. >> it is time for honesty with regard to the care issue. with regard to people you are

not hired yet and not invested in the system, the time is here. for people we haven't hide yet. with people who have vested in system, present employeest employees you are not going to touch them. that's a legal vested right they have and illegal and immoral to touch that but the era of must come to the public sector must if it does not those people who are vested who have made lifetime decisions with regard to their income over their senior years are not going to receive those dollars. secondly with regard to teachers retyrement. president mill ertalked about sharing the burden with the locals. which is may major issue. everyone is scared to talk about it. we are not.

>> where are you going to get the $35 billion. >> teacher retirement is a part of what you are talking about. by the way when i left we were in the 90s vested. now in the 60s. that's not his fault but that's market and the downturn but the fact is you have to begin the discussion with regard to sharing with the subdivisions in annapolis. i think they are ready for it. do it fairly, incrementally, balanced and not overnight. >> governor o'malley. >> where do begin? this is a complex and difficult challenge and we have appointed a commission in statute to come up with recommendations and they are working right now. the difficulty here, derek, of course, is -- there are many of them, but we need to do the responsible thing and we need to do it in a responsible way. ideology will not solve this problem. >> governor, night cut you off but governor ehrlich stepped out and said defined benefit

plans for government workers in maryland should come to an end. do you support the idea for balancing this? >> no, i don't. i think what we have to do is wait for the commission to put a menu of options and it will be a combination of things. i'm sure. we have had a better performance this year on our investments, a better rate of return, 14% and trying to predict what that variable will be in the future is part of the difficult work, but we know that we have to address it. we have to bring people together to address it. it was something the former governor never took at shot at addressing during the four years he was in when that gap continued to grow every year. the first order of business when i was elected was attacking the structural deficit that the former governor left to us at $1.7 billion. and then the recession hit us and we have been protecting our priorities but mindful of the fact we need to bring people together to address the long- term sustainability of our

pension options and do it in a way with everyone at the table. nor am i in favor of privatizing social security. i don't think that ideology will solve this complex problem. we need to bring people together with dignity and respect. look at the menu of options and figure out a way to move forward. >> i don't know how many cliches can be place in the one sentence but you set the record. leaders lead, politicians give you that. that's the difference in this election. what you just heard. >> matt has a question. >> talk some football. here in the district the movement is slowly growing and will only increase in the next four years to bring the redskins back in the city where where they currently play in maryland. as governor, would either of you, if anything, offer the redskins to stay in prince georges county and ileal start with governor every lick. >> the owner of the redskins is a redskins fan and contributor. we will have those discussions. having two franchises in

maryland is fantastic. there's issues with regard to the stadium as we know traffic is a mess. it's an all-day affair. and redskins fans are the best in the country. we know that. so that would have to be a function of discussions with mr. snyder and with the relative players in prince georges county and the players in annapolis, as well. obviously we love having two franchises located in maryland, it helps redskin and rfk was a fantastic environment for professional football. i have been to a number of games there but there is no clear answer to this. we will see where the franchise wants to go, where the owner wants to go and what the taxpayers have to say about it as well. >> i don't know the answer to that question but we'd like to keep the redskins playing in prince georges county. >> the first time we asked that question. >> now we will switch gears once again. governor o'malley, is there anything, what would you say is the most important thing in your background that prepared

you for being governor? was it being a song writer and vocalist in a celtic band that toured the state, being a father of four or baltimore mayor or something else. something in your background that really helped in the governor's mansion? >> probably my upbringing by two of the most loving an caring people that god ever put on this planet, my parents tom and barbara o'malley. that's probably the most important thing. i guess one of the perspectives i have been able to bring to this job in the most difficult of times is i grew up in the washington area and then i moved to baltimore in law school. and met the love of my life and therefore stayed. i have a perspective of both metropolitan areas. i understand the challenges faced by moms and dads in montgomery and prince georges county and i also have a very -- i have been lessed to have serve as mayor the isty of baltimore and see the potential there. i suppose the understanding of

both regions has served me well but most important are the values i was raised with, a belief in hard work, in tough choices and a belief we are all in this together. >> reporter: governor ehrlich, same question for you. what is it you did before you were governor that really helped while you were governor, being the captain of the football team at princeton? talk show host, member of congress [ laughter ] >> cohost. >> something else? >> what is in your background that helped while you are in the governor's montgomery mansion. >> the predicate i share with governor o'malley is loving parents and being raised in -- princeton. but to answer your question, being elected to the legislature at a young age and learning the craft and understanding how annapolis work and the committee system, congress less, though. clearly the experience,ing ayear necessary maryland general assembly when there were no republicans around and i was adopted by senior democratic leaders down there,

i was included in a back room group, a small group that decide which issues go to the house floor. i was included on conference committees. i was befriended and adopted by senior democratic leaders that great conservative moderate pro beeswings of the democratic party that used to dominate annapolis before the last 10 to 15 years. that experience was priceless. it prepared me to go to congress. it prepared me to be governor and i'll never forget it. >> thank you. so now we will have a variety of questions and matt is going to start with one on immigration. >> to governor o'malley a hot button issue. would you support cutting state funding to any group in maryland that receives state funding if it is proven they aid or harbor illegal aliens? >> the -- if it is proven they aid or harbor illegal aliens? i think what is the problem with our nation today is the

fear of politics and the politics that shift blame for a lack of comprehensive immigration reform. no. we will not support groups that conspire to break the law. but let's be honest here. we are talking about a nation that has not been able to come to a consensus on immigration reform. people who are here should have a pathway for becoming citizens for obeying all the laws and paying their taxes. new americans, and every wave of new americans has made our nation a better place. sadly as a political football, there's this nativism rising and a desire to blame new americans for the problems in our economy. new americans didn't run wall street in the ground. new americans didn't destroy our savings or manipulate intelligence information to get us in to conflicts that we might not have otherwise gotten in to and i think we need to look at each other and give

each other dignity and respect as we work through comprehensive immigration and reform. only the federal government can protect our borders and they need to do a better job but congress needs to come together for reform. >> your correct answer is yes. you have celebrated casa demaryland. if casa de maryland was interested in philadelphiaing the original mandate which is to help assimilation of new americans, if somebody breaks in to my house is that a new member of my family that night. it is not new americans. if you are illegal and you know casa de maryland has used tax money to produce booklets to assist illegal immigrants from the reach of the law. you know that. and you were there celebrating the opening of that building.

it is wrong. -- with all due respect it is my time here. matt, the answer is we really do have to draw the line in this country. i agree with the governor in one small respect. it has been a bipartisan failure at the level level. republican administration, democratic administrations have failed in this regard but to pretend new americans, use that term when you are referring to illegal immigrants is wrong. with regard to legal immigration we should welcome new imgrants we are about assimilation. that's what the sculpture is about. we talk about nullity culturallism we have a multiethnic society but a single culture premises on the other hand english, capital. a, equal opportunity, living the american dream, i'm living it. you are living it but we did it the right way our families. we have to do it the right way. governor o'malley i vetoed in state tuition help supports it.

he signed the bill in to law that gave illegals six years to comport with federal law. >> thank you, governor. >> we have two tiered license system in the state and casa de maryland is a gross example of what this mind set leads us to. >> i disagree. >> it is not nativism. it is following the law. sovereignty must mean something. that is what this election is about. >> improving health outcomes making sure people can deliver their children with prenatal care. i don't think that clothing people and making sure that we reach out with basic dignity is services is un-american and i think that is a gross and unfair mischaracterization. >> the law, matt. >> can you hold the applause in the law require those services to be provided. nobody has a problem with that. >> derek. >> i was going to ask something else but i'm going to get to this because this conversation

reminded me of what you threw back and forth at the last debate and then we heard about coded words and racism. you said governor ehrlich that o'malley called you a racist dc -- came close to playing the race card. >> what do you mean by that? when you talk about cities and urban and these things a lot of people take it to mean black people. >> we have to be unction afraid. you know that. we have to be unafraid to care about baltimore city schools. we care in different ways i guess we have different remedies but you have to be unafraid today. when i talk about race, when race is brought up, the audience is silent. everybody gets real nervous. we have a african-american president. enough of this. we need to talk and have debates. we disagree about a lot of things. that's what is great about this campaign. we disagree on just about everything. that's what politics is about. that's good but i'm not going to put up with being treated,

as i have begun to be treated in the last debate with respect to race. there's 11 schools we talked about in baltimore city that are dysfunctional. the kids are being deprived 0 their constitutional right, they are mostly african- american. it's not right. it is not a discretionary function of government. it is a matter of the constitution. we need to care about the kids. we all care but it was very difficult, i guess for the o'malley administration. members of this black caucus, teachers association, what, to pretend otherwise because it was an election year and ebb convenient and i surgeon lip wasn't going to put up with -- certainly wasn't going to put up with that card who allowed thousandses of african- americans in baltimore city, one in six citizens of the city of baltimore arrested and most by the way thrown out, arrested, taken off the street and thrown out. talk about deprivation of constitutional rights. i wasn't going to put up with

it. i will never put up with it in my life. >> governor o'malley, were you calling him a racist. >> we were starting finally to make progress on city schools. we have -- as a state because of the tough choices and the increased funding for education, we have actually in recent years cut the achievement gap between black and white students in half in elementary reading and math. the former governor has said that he would cut education funding this are that would put big holes in montgomery and prince georges county schools. how on earth is that going to help us improve our schools by cutting education funding? and i do believe there's a calculation of blaming the city for think challenges that we face as a people. blaming newly arriving americans for the challenges we

face as a country in order to take people's eye off the ball or the phak that it was his party and former president bush that drove our economy in to a ditch. and i think that it is unhealthy for us to turn on one another, and practice that politics of division and fear. i believe that we are all in this together. >> four points real quick. you have mandatory president bush mention in, congratulations. secondly, dci is the program he's talking able. he doesn't fund either. stimulus dollars came in to fund that. he didn't think it was important to fund. in fact, i have an interesting headline from the annapolis capital. o'malley to reduce education spending with regard to that particular program in 2007. not very consistent there. third with regard to those schools. these are schools. these are not regular schools. these schools are graduating relatively few percentage of their kids and they were

passing kids pro efficiency rating at four, 8, 18, 15%. >> let's give governor o'malley 30 seconds to respond. >> wait. >> she said it was my turn. >> he can have as much time as he wants. he can't explain it. >> it wasn't a takeover. our plan was -- which is our plan was to go public charter and i believe you didn't know what public charter schools. last time you were at the "washington post" tour award or private vendor. that's the answer to those schools. you were depriving those kids of their constitutional rights and that's not right. >> nine years ago not one grade in baltimore city scored majority proficient in reading or math and today it is a school system that is improving and that is recognized by people around the country. there are few major cities that are improving as well as baltimore city is and that's what this is about.

it is about outcomes for kids and achievement. it is not about constantly putting the city down and city children down. i have never heard you say one kind thing about the progress that was made in city schools. i have never heard you acknowledge the fact that baltimore achieved the third largest reduction in violent crime over the last ten years. >> i want to follow up quick with you. governor, he suggested you came close to playing the race card. could have a response to that? >> i find it almost amusing the way the former governor is recasting his record and his deep concern when all of us remember four years ago the shameful incident when homeless black men were put on a bus in philadelphia and shipped to prince georges county, left at poles to give out fraudulent election day information. and i find this sort of trashing of the city, this downing of poor people, i find it offensive and i think it is unbecoming of someone that would purport to lead our

state. >> you know what downs poors people, raising the sales tax. that's what downs poor people. >> let's go on to on line questions. there were many that were phrased in different ways but the gist of which were it has been said that you two don't like each other very much [ laughter ] >> why would anyone get that idea? >> i'm not sure. but this person wants to know if each of you can, in your most positive chivalrous way, could you describe how your opponent has done something to move maryland forward? what wants to start? >> why don't you start [ laughter ] [ applause ] >> i think the implementation of the flush tax was a good thing. we could debate over whether how progressive it was when the wealthiest among us pay the same 2 a 0 a month as a senior

citizen on a fixed income but that was a good move forward for maryland. >> i appreciate that very much because it is a big-time positive step for our chesapeake bay. you know what i admire about him? he does this. this is tough. it's not easy. nobody deserves a medal for this but putting yourself out there, putting your ego and your family out there, we both have young kids. we see commercials impact our kids. this isn't easy to do. sitting in front of the tv, radio, public life, many many commentators see public life as easy. you live in a nice house, i lived there for four years. there's perks no doubt about it but every day you go out there and your chief executive you are answerable to everyone, 6.57 million people. you go out there -- i had to

talk to kendall, kids about running again because i know the criticism the attack ads. my point is i really like that. this is a nice thing and i mean it. for any public official particularly at this level, to put yourself in this position is not easy particularly given our situation with young kid and successful lives. and i would say that the governor is going around and talked a lot about the cover crops and nitrogen issues with respect to the bay and getting farmers involved and we have to do that an that's a good thing and aappreciate it. >> these are specific to each of you. answer on your own. they deal with the same thing. no longer the relationship with talking to each other but local leaders in the dc suburbs. we will start with governor ehrlich. your relationship with the local leaders in montgomery and prince georges county can be termed frosty. if you return to annapolis are you going to work with them?

>> my relationship with the local leaders during my tenure was pretty good. jack johnson, doug duncan and don't take my word for it, ask them. particularly, ask jack johnson to compare and contrast how prince georges county has been treated by the ehrlich administration opposed to the o'malley administration. i won't call him, i promise matt, but i will go with his answer if he will tell you and i think he will. with regard to doug duncan he was running against me and we became friends and that's what politics should be about by the way. we built the intercounty connector when we know you were against it. >> i wasn't against it. >> we will have to go to the fact checkers. you were over time by the way. we had a terrific relationship with doug. got a lot of things done. i was cochair of the house of biotechnology and we have that

together. particularly prince georges county ask the elected official and sam dean and derek davis, ask those folks how the ehrlich administration treated this county opposed to the o'malley administration. i will go with their answer. >> for governor o'malley, the national move the campaign season is voters want to see more diversity among leaders. there's not one elected republican in montgomery or prince georges county and the state house and the state senate are controlled by democrats. if you are re-elected one party rule continues in maryland. why do you view that as a good thing? >> regardless of party what we have to have is leadership on our side that brings us together, that serves no special interest but the public interest. and is able to make sure that people, whether they are democrats or republicans are brought together to face these very challenging problems that

we have. and each of us served in different times. in much easier times the former governor did not -- was not able to get much done. could not forge any consensus. he increased state spending by more than any other governor in maryland history and increased $3 billion in taxes and fees but there wasn't a lot of progress to show for it. in tougher times, we were able to bring people together to address the big deficit that we were left, and yet we have also made progress. we have greatly increased school construction, which when he was in office, in easier times he chose to cut that went to prince georges county. we have increased school construction in prince georges county to an all-time record high. it is 67% increase. we have increased school operating funding for prince georges county to an all-time high of 4.1 billion. we have in the toughest of times sustained prince georges county hospital and much tougher times than what he had we have increased by four times

the amount of support that goes to prince georges county the key to any leadership is not partisanship, ideology, dividing people, turning them on each other but bringing people together. >> did you get your answer? >> we are having so much fun but we are starting to run out of time. >> we need another hour. i demand another hour. >> i would love to do that, but now we have entered the rapid fire questions. we just have a few minutes left. please, this is the last few questions. keep your answers quite short. >> i will ask one. here in dc they allow gay marriage. what do you think of gay marriage in maryland. if someone is married in dc should they be able to have the marriage recognized in maryland. >> no. >> firmly opposed. >> to recognizing 0 allowing it. >> both. >> i think, however, bundles of rights should attach to nontraditional relationships. we passed the bill when i was governor. >> i supported the attorney

general's edition that we should recognize them and further more i think what we need to focus on is protecting rights equally. were a bill to come to me will protect rights regardless of the label applied to the union providing there were protections for religious freedom i would sign that bill. >> in one sentence, this is another on-line question from bill in frostburg. how do you propose we can make the baltimore orioles better? [ laughter ] >> power hitting first baseman, another start and we're going to be there. >> great. >> governor. >> practice, practice, practice [ laughter ] >> very quickly to put it mildly pepco had a bad summer in the dc suburbs and their decline occurred both of your terms as governor. what can you do to make sure the power stays on? >> i directed the public service commission to go an investigation on that. and they will be coming out with recommendations i believe not to presuppose what their recommendations might be i

think we need reliability standards. i think the carriers in the deregulated market have an obligation to provide reliability and when they don't do it there should be consequences. >> you have an obligation to be honest about utility rate and you should have known you were dema going on the issue and you have been found out. >> after you bragged about giving the public service commission a lobotomy. is that the one you were talking about. >> when the bill passed and you promised 72% and it went up 80 and you said sorry, didn't mean it. >> you were the one that touted us with that one. >> governor, in 1999, just check the record, i was in congress, trust me. i didn't draft that bill. it was mike mill and your leadership. >> i opposed the deregulation [ applause ] >> here we are again, sorry, matt. that's an important issue and

demonizing will stop in three weeks. trust me. >> please hold your applause. >> please please please. >> don't have a lot of time. >> reliability obviously makes sense. appropriate oversight from the public service commission. there's been raises they should be working harder. >> last question briefly. buff in the public eye a long time. can you tell us one thing that a most people might not know. >> i'm really good on 70s and late ' 60s music trivia [ laughter ] not very good musician. he beats me there. >> who's your favorite late ' 60s musician. >> stylistics early philadelphia soul ' 70s and stylistics i had them play at the republican national convention when mike spoke. >> you are a song writer. you can take this however you want. tell us something people may not know about you or your

favorite song. >> favorite song or something they may not know about me. my wife says that i work too hard. and that i need to come home earlier more nights of the week. as far as favorite songs, i don't know, i think i will pass. >> okay. >> now i think we will head in to our closing statements. we have asked you to keep these brief. governor o'malley is going to go first. >> thank you very much. our country is in a fight, and it's a fight for our economic future. it's a fight for our children's future, and there are going to be some sate states that win in this state in our economy and some states that lose. the states that win will be the states that are able to bring people together in order to protect our priorities of education, affordable college, invasion, all of the things

that are fueling this invasion economy in maryland with small and large businesses, family- owned and corporations alike that are working on the most urgent problems facing us as a world. that invasion is also creating jobs every single day. in order to make this change, though, we need a governor who's on our side. the big banks. the big mortgage companies the big utilities, the big casino interests have all of the lobbyists and governor affairs specialists that money can buy. we need a governor who's on our side, who's able to bring people together to be straightforward, to attack complex problem and move our state forward so we can be a winner in this new economy. i love the people of our state. i am optimistic about our future if we have the courage to join together and move forward. thank you very much. >> thank you, governor. >> governor ehrlich. >> to some extent what you heard is why i'm running and those casino interests are supporting you, not me. and when the dust settles in

this campaign, a quarter million marylanders looking for work have lost 3,000 small businesses, have had the largest tax increase in maryland history and we spent $23 billion more over the last four years than the prior four years. that's a dismal record and we can and should do better. when you come down to it, why we do this, it is how the state views you. how the state views you. do they look to you as a source of revenue enhancement? more dollars, more regulation, more government or as a source of job creation to get those young folks in the work force and get maryland moving again. we will compare and contrast our records and governor o'malley has been relitigating and relitigating the past. today people are hurting. it's a serious time, folks. record unemployment, record taxes, record debt. it's not think time for overthe top ludicrous negative ads. people are hurting.

small businesses have been hammered. 401-ks have been halved. they are looking for leadership and vision. a serious time for serious people, serious dialogue by serious leaders and i hope you saw that today from me. thank you very much for watching and god speed [ applause ] >> and this concludes the maryland governor's debate brought to you by "washington post" live and wusa 9 which will rebroadcast this tonight at 7 p.m. on their digital channel and wamu 88.5 which will air it tonight at 8. thank you governor o'malley and former governor bob ehrlich [ applause ] of your visit, right? >> kyle: it's not a visit. mom says we're moving here now.