policy in just one week. the weekended on a serious but controversial note at last night's cbs news national journal debate. >> if i were president, i would be willing to use water boarding. >> this is war. that's what happens in war. >> we will not allow iran to have a nuclear weapon. >> schieffer: but that came after a week that ran the gamut from herman cain fighting off sexual harassment charges to rick perry forgetting his own plan to reduce the size of government. >> the third agency of government i would do away with-- education, the.... >> commerce. >> commerce. and let's see. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. >> schieffer: that was christmas in november for the comics. >> that is not the four-letter word i would have gone with. >> schieffer: but last night perry got serious. >> the foreign aid budget in my administration for every country is going to start at

zero dollars. zero dollars. and then we'll have a conversation. >> schieffer: even israel, democrats are asking? who is up and who is down now? >> it is a wide open race. >> schieffer: we'll get analysis a all of us from mississippi's republican governor haley barbour, south carolina's republican senator lindsey graham and maryland's democratic governor martin o'malley. plus republican candidate jon huntsman. on our round table conservative columnist kathleen parker, bill clinton's press secretary dede meyers, national journal's major garrett, one of last night's moderators, and cbs news political director john dickerson. another campaign week for the record books. it's all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs

from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning again. well, last night's debate in south carolina was all about foreign policy. the things that got most of the attention, what to do about iran's nuclear capability and also who should we give foreign aid to. as we just saw rick perry got a lot of attention when he talked about zero-ing out of foreign aid to everyone, and at some point people began to ask, including israel? well, here is what he said. >> every country would start at zero. ( applause ) obviously israel is a special ally. and my bet is that we would be funding them at some substantial level. but it makes sense for everyone to come in at zero and make your case. >> schieffer: so, governor haley barbour down there in mississippi, you've been in politics for a long time. you well know when you start talking about cutting aid to israel, it's sort of like talking about cutting people's

social security. it's one of those third rails of american politics. did rick perry set himself up for a new controversy here with these remarks last night? >> well, if i heard him right he said we're going to have what jimmy carter calls zero- base budgeting and everybody will have to justify every year what they get. i don't think... he talked about the special relationship we have with israel. i don't think there's any way in the world that a republican president or a republican congress would have a zero balance for israel at the end of the day. but the idea of zero-base budgeting, starting every account out at zero is not new or partisan. a lot of people think it's a good idea. >> schieffer: governor o'malley, you're a democrat. i must say after those comments last night, boy, the twitter lines and all the internet lines began to light up. what's he talking about? what's your take on that? >> i think what has happened in the course of these republican presidential debates is a lot of sort of

erratic statements, a lot of behavior that is not really in keeping with some of the longer traditions of the party of lincoln. so you see a real pandering to extremists. you see a pandering to the tea party extremes of the republican party. so this is another one in a long series of things that don't really add up to a lot of practical sense. >> schieffer: lindsey graham, i want you to listen to this because something else got a lot of attention last night was iran and what to do about its nuclear capability. we saw mitt romney who is one of the republican frontrunners say if push came to shove and nothing else worked we'd have to take military action against iran. listen to what he said here. >> and if all else fails, if after all the work we've done there's nothing else we can do besides take military action then of course you take military action. it is unacceptable for iran to have a nuclear weapon. >> schieffer: okay. senator graham, does that mean that we might get in a war with iran over whether that

would be required to take out their nuclear capability? would you be for that? >> totally. absolutely without any doubt the iranians if they develop a nuclear weapon, bob, the whole region is going to want a nuclear weapon. then you march down the road of armageddon. you open pandora's box if you attack iran. if they get a nuclear weapon you empty pandora's box. that's the world we live in. i support the option of a military option as a last resort. now their capability is so redundant you'd have to do more than go after the nuclear program. you have to neutor this regime, go after the revolution guard and try to get people in the cup country to overthrow the regime. if they get a nuclear weapon we need a regime change and the world will go into darkness. >> schieffer: you know, one of the things that the people have been asking about all week is, did rick perry sort of end his chances to get the nomination with some of the stumbles he made when he couldn't remember some of the things that he himself had advocated to reduce the size

of government. i want to get all of your takes on this. that came up last night when scott pelley of cbs news one of the moderators asked him a question. >> if you eliminate the department of energy.... >> glad you remembered it. (laughing) >> i've had some time to think about it, sir. >> me too. (laughing) ( cheers and applause ) >> schieffer: he got a big round of applause. governor barbour, is rick perry back in the race now or what's the deal here? >> we'll see. i mean, he obviously is right to be self-deprecating about it. to make fun of himself for making a mistake. americans appreciate that. that you can admit you're wrong and make light of yourself. how he comes back remains to be seen. bob, we do have the habit this

election year in the republican side for thinking that whatever happened in the last seven days means we know what's going to happen in the next seven weeks. that it will show us that path. that hasn't been the case. i don't expect it to be the case. so we'll just have to see if rick perry's strategy now, some people are saying he's going to focus totally on iowa. if he does, you know, does he get it back going there? he's a guy with a really good record as governor, who has stumbled. we'll see. >> schieffer: senator graham, what's your take-away here just on rick perry and where he is now? >> he did better last night. i think it was a reassuring debate. i thought he was very good on foreign policy. time and mow... money. if you've got time and money, anything can happen in politics. he has a good record, being the texas governor. he needs more good debates but newt was gone just a couple of months ak. i've been with mccain where he was out, sixth in a five-person

race. you never know what's going to happen. he has time and money and talent. i think he can come back. >> schieffer: governor o'malley i suppose you have some thoughts on what you hope happens here. what is your take-away from these debates so far from the democratic side? >> well i think one of the more jarring things i mean for all the humor and the self-deprecating back and forth that you just saw in that clip what was really disturbing is how little serious thought many of these republican candidates who hold themselves out as the commander in chief who would be responsible for managing this big, complex organization, how little thought they've given to what it is they would actually do. that's what i took away from the debate so far. there's been no ideas about job creation, no new ideas about growing our middle class, no new ideas about reinvesting in this great idea of america. until that happens, you're going to see a very fluid field over there. that's why you see the rise of people like herman cain as a protest vote because no one on

their side yet is offering any new ideas for real solutions. >> schieffer: i have to say that on one point that governor o'malley makes here, nobody seems to be creating much excitement, including mitt romney, who seems to be sort of stuck just below 20% in the polls. governor barbour, what do you think... who is up and who is down right now and where does that race go from here? >> well, bob, as i've told you before, this reminds me of a lot of past democratic presidential contests like jimmy carter in '76, bill clinton in '92, where there is not really a frontrunner. mitt romney is the best known of our candidates. not a true frontrunner. what we see people doing more than i've ever seen in my life, is instead of saying which one agrees with me most, which one do i like the most, they're saying which one has the best chance to beat obama. that's what matters to me. i was going to say it looks like a lot of people set romney to the side and say i

know a lot about him. i want to learn more about these others. that's why we're kind of going through cinderella trying on the slipper. it looks like maybe newt's time is next and we'll go along. then after we've gone through that cycle, people will seriously focus on, is it really romney who is the most electable or is there somebody else that has come out that i think has the best chance to beat obama? this election is about president obama's policies and his record. whoever we nominate will get elected. >> schieffer: i want to ask you, senator graham, in about 30 seconds, what is your take- away from this? where do you think this goes? >> last night ronald reagan would have loved this debate. six months ago i was really worried that our party was drifting. last night was a hawkish debate that talked about listening to commanders and not basing decisions in iraq and afghanistan on polls. this president has rejected solid military commander advice to help his own re-election. i know we're going to win because the policies that he enacted, president obama

enacted in his first two years have damned this economy for now and in the future. so we need a solid person on the economy, someone who will say i will listen to the... not make poll-driven decisions. he's going to be a one-term president if we get a solid nominee. >> schieffer: i want to thank all of you. we are trying to have at least one candidate on every week and jon huntsman joins us today from spartan burg. governor, both newt gingrich and rick perry said last night that when it comes to foreign aid that every country should start out at zero. we decide from there who gets foreign aid. people immediately began to ask, does that also include israel? governor perry said at one point yes that he did. his people walked that back a little bit. what do you make of that? >> it's called sound bites campaigning. these are easy sound bites. they get an applause line. the fact of the matter is we're broke as a country. we're going to have to look very, very carefully at foreign aid.

but we also have to look at it through the prism and through the analysis of what kind of return we get on our national interests. so when you've got aid money that goes to israel that's balanced somewhat with the palestinian authority, that's important. for the ongoing peace process. when you have aid money that is targeted toward expanding rule of law, for example, in parts of the world that don't have it, enhancing human ryes there are certain areas that i would argue are in america's interest. if they're in america's interest we get some return on that invested dollar. and i think we have... you know, it's fair enough to say we have to start with a zero base budget approach but let's also be smart enough to say that we do as a people get a certain return through foreign aid. we have to carefully identify with that return is, explain it to the american people. but to say we're just going to wish it all away i think is a political sound bite. >> schieffer: should we give aid to pakistan in light of what's been happening? >> that's terribly problematic p we have nothing more than a

relationship with pakistan that is transactional. it's a very challenging and difficult situation. they have nuclear weapons. the 160 million people with the youngest demographic in south asia influenced by the madrassah movement increasingly being radicalized, they very well could be a candidate for failed nationship. i say because of their precarious state of affairs, we've got to have an ongoing relationship with pakistan that allows them to move in a direction of stability. nuclear weapons, the fragility of the domestic situation, something that would tie aid money-- i'm not in favor of $4 billion particularly the money that winds up in the hip pockets of the general and his crowd. but something that is tied to reform, something that is tied to stability, something that is tied to steps toward expanding the marketplace because in the end in pakistan

the only way they're going to be able to save themselves is by providing more in the way of economic opportunity to their people. >> schieffer: let me ask you a political question here before i let you go. despite all this exposure, despite all these debates, search out of ten people that we've surveyed say they still are undecided about who they think the republican nominee ought to be. the people who are leading now can't even get 20% of the voters. why do you think that is? governor, is it just a very weak field? >> no, i think it's not unusual at this point in the campaign. first of all we're early. we for get for the political junkies they're saying how come this thing hasn't solidified? for the most part people are just beginning to tune in. that's why i like our chances. people say you're hor in the polls. what gives? and how are you going to handle this? toward the end of december, toward early january even in a state like new hampshire people don't begin coalescing around the candidates until about 10 days before the vote. so you're going to see

continuing positioning on the part of the candidates for the next several weeks. then you're going to see the people. when they have to stair down the ballot box, bob, they ask a very important question. that is, who can i vote for you? who can actually do the work of the presidency of the united states of america? who has the vision? who has the track record and temperament? >> schieffer: thank you so much, governor. >> thank you, bob. >> schieffer: and when we come back, our distinguished panel of political analysts and reporters. in a minute. i'm kind of a fixture in different parts of town... some folks call me a rock star, some call me the mayor... and i love it. and, i make everybody happy. i keep my business insurance with the hartford because... they came through for me once, and i know they've got my back. for whatever challenges come your way... the hartford is here to back you up. helping you move ahead... with confidence. meet some of our small business customers at: thehartford.com/business

i don't think about the unknown... i just rock n' roll. >> schieffer: and we're back now with our panel. kathleen parker, of course, is the columnist for the "washington post" who writes kind of from the conservative side, i would say. dee dee myers, president clinton's press secretary. national journal's major garrett who moderated the debate last night along with our own scott pelley. and our cbs news political

director just named to that post yesterday john dickerson. congratulations, john. kathleen, i want to start with you. herman cain was not much of a presence at this debate last night. but he had a very rough week going into it. and i must say his support among women does seem to have fallen somewhat. it was about 28% support among women before. now it's down to 15%. do you think this is going to blow over for him or will he weather this storm? >> i think he's counting on it blowing over. there's not, you know, there's a precedent for that. americans have a very short attention span. he's hoping that as he just continues to blow reporters off and focus on the things that he wants to talk about-- essentially 999-- you know, that eventually people will just forget. he's also playing kind of the victim card. he's suggesting that all of these people are out to get him. that resonates with a certain part of the republican party. they're very happy to say, look, don't pick on our man.

the more you pick on him, the more they're going to support him. he's feeding on that. >> schieffer: dee dee myers, you were president clinton's press secretary when he went through some serious allegations involving women. how do you see this playing out? >> well, i think that a lot of cain's base has more men than women. i don't have the numbers to support that. that's my reading of the situation. i think that's one of the reason that his support hasn't dropped more. but i think this is the kind of thing that starts to sow doubt about who herman cain is and whether he's really the best candidate to be the republican nominee for president. i think we'll start to see more scrutiny of him on other issues. last night he looked uncomfortable talking about foreign policy. he didn't want to be there. this is not his strong suit. he gave answers that if the bar had been higher would have been more controversial. he would defer all the big decisions about foreign and military policy to his advisors or to the generals. he would be commander in chief. that's not a very satisfying answer. >> schieffer: major garrett, you were one of the moderators

last night. i would just ask you, what do you take away from this? who is up and who is down now? >> i'll leave that to the american voters. what we tried to do was ask think questions not recite questions. we really wanted to try to force the candidates to think on their feet and adapt their present view of the world to circumstances they would actually confront as commander in chief. i agree with dede that herman kane did not appear to me from where i sat to be comfortable with those questions or have ready answers for the complexities that he would confront as commander in chief. the voters can draw their own conclusions about newt gingrich, mitt romney. i thought we learned a lot last night about iran, covert activity that mitt romney said was a good idea. so did newt gingrich and rick santorum. they don't want to get involved in syria. maybe they would help the opposition. rick perry said that the communist chinese government is going to fall on the ash heap of history. this whole thing about foreign aid i think a lot of things were gleaned from that debate last night. that was our intention. i think people for the next

week or so are going to be chewing over a lot of different answers that came out last night. >> schieffer: if you had to sum it up, john, how would you sum up last night? >> it was hawkish. the major mentioned there was talk about iran. also you had water boarding come back again. michele bachmann, herman cain, rick perry said they were for it. they supported it. you also had an interesting take on pakistan. rick perry saying i'm going to zero out foreign aid and senator santorum and congresswoman bachmann saying wait a minute we have to keep giving foreign aid to a country like pakistan because they have nukes. in terms of the politics this is newt gingrich's moment he was very forceful. he comes out on top when asked who could better h best hannah crisis 1% of the people said that. when he was in this debate he looked like a person who... he put that forward to voters and that probably worked pretty well. >> schieffer: kathleen, do you see gingrich now being the alternative to romney, various ones that have been put in that position and have risen and then fallen shall where do you see gingrich? >> he's certainly the flavor of the week. newt gingrich does very, very

well in debate. he's not really much of a campaigner. in fact he's been described as a... that would be interesting to have a miss and tlop as president. he does very well on the debate format. he's rather refreshing i have to say because he'll cut through all the garbage and say what is clear and succinct and obviously true in many cases. >> schieffer: dede, you're a democrat. who do democrats want to see win this? >> well, the most unelectable candidate would be just fine, thank you. i think people, the democrats were pretty excited about rick perry. the general consensus is he's too far right for most of the country. we'd be thrilled to have newt gingrich be the nominee. not only is he a misanthrope. he's mercurial and not particularly disciplined. a good proportion of his ideas are way out there. he's be fun to run against. there's a wealth of opportunity in the republican primary field for democrats to have some fun. probably the one that people think is most... looks like

the toughest candidate is mitt romney. >> schieffer: and the white house seems to be thinking that because they seem... i'm sorry. we've run out of time. thanks to all of you for being here. back with some final thoughts in just a minute. ♪ [ male announcer ] how could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.

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>> schieffer: finally today the fall of icons are the stories that always hit us the hardest. when our heroes let us down it forces us to question our own judgment for elevating them in the first place so it was when we learned that the legendary football coach joe paterno and a lot of other people above and below him at penn state either looked the other way or, at worst, covered it up when they learned that one of paterno's top assistants was a child molestor. we said what that kid said to joe jackson, one of the players accused of fixing the 1919 world series, "say it ain't so, joe." joe was a barely literate man who claimed he was duped by gamblers, but it is hard to believe that anyone who had an inkling of what was going on at penn state did not understand its significance. but they had bigger fish to fry: protecting a football program that brought millions

of dollars and national attention to their school. paterno was a great coach who now says his heart goes out to the young victims. but it's a little too late for that. as the catholic church learned when protecting the institution is put ahead of protecting those it is intended to serve, it is eventually the institution that is put at risk. that is unfortunate but let us remember those the institution forgot, the victims, children who may have been scarred for life. they deserve to know those who wrongd them and those who knew about it are being brought to justice. yes, that includes the icons. back in a minute. ♪ [ male announcer ] we're not employers or employees. not white collar or blue collar or no collars. we are business in america. and every day we awake to the same challenges. but at prudential we're helping companies everywhere

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and it's on a really good corner. let's see if we can buy the property." and the branch manager said, "all right, i will take a chance with the two of you." and we've been loyal to bank of america for the last 71 years. >> schieffer: that's it for us today. we thank you for watching. we'll see you here next week on "face the nation." me a rock , some call me the mayor... and i love it. and, i make everybody happy. i keep my business insurance with the hartford because... they came through for me once, and i know they've got my back. for whatever challenges come your way... the hartford is here to back you up. helping you move ahead... with confidence. meet some of our small business customers at: thehartford.com/business i don't think about the unknown... i just rock n' roll. captioning sponsored by cbs

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