secretary of state. michael lewis, author of boomerang the explosive best seller about wall street. and walter isaacson, the best selling author of the new biography of steve jobs. they're all ahead on face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs from washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. good morning again. well, we are all here and i'm going to start with kathryn stockett because, among those of us who write books from time to time, you are the hero. how long is that book... how long has that book been on the best seller list? >> i try not to keep track of numbers like that, but it seems like it's been a very long time. >> schieffer: back to 2009, right? >> it came out in february of '09. and somehow i am still on book tour. i need to write another one. >> schieffer: and it is still number one on the paperback

list, isn't it? >> yeah. i mean, it's hovering around there somewhere. but i know this is short lived. >> schieffer: it's not short lived so far. i'll tell you that for sure. it is a book that i must say, it is pitch perfect. i grew up in that era. i grew up in forth wrt. this is is the story about these black women who raised white babies across the south. it is simply a remarkable story. you've really caught it exactly right. why... how did you come upon or how did you get the idea of writing this book? >> living downtown in new york city and was, you know, trying to write a book. 9/11 occurred. i became so home sick. and the voice that i really wanted to hear was that of dmitri. she was an african-woman who worked for our family for over 30 years.

she had been dead since i was 16. the best way i know as a writer to channel the voice of the dead is to write in their voice. >> schieffer: so you went back and you did all the research of that era and that period. >> yeah, for me it really was just like playing a tape recorder back in my head. so the research was kind of... it was reminiscing for me. you know, i get a lot of criticism for writing in such a heavy dialect. but for me that was how i remembered dmitri's voice. >> schieffer: condoleezza rice, you grew up in the south, sort of the other side of town. how did that shape you? >> well, growing up in the south segregated birmingham probably the most segregated big city in america shaped me fundamentally because my family had to persevere under those circumstances to educate all of us and to insist that we might not be able to control our circumstances but we could control our response. when i read the help, it was really for me a south that i didn't know very well.

you're right. i lived on the other side of town. the south was very strat stratified. in our middle class community it was a very different world than the one that kitty wrote about so i loved her book too. >> schieffer: what brought it home to me is that growing up in fort worth in those days which is not exactly the south. it's if west. but it was very segregated. the black people lived on one side of town. we lived on the other to extent that i did not actually shake hands with a black person until i was the secretary lieutenant in the united states air force. it had such an impression on me, i can still remember exactly where it was. it was in the passenger terminal at travis air force base. it wasn't that i didn't particularly didn't want. i just never had the opportunity. it was that divided. walter isaacson, you grew up in new orleans. you grew up in the south. and now you're written this remarkable book about steve

jobs. but let's talk a little bit about catherine's book first. what was it like for you and how.... >> if you grew up in new orleans, you really do have an antenna for race. i remember vividly the first time it came into my consciousness i was walking through a park with my cousin. he said he wanted to go to the merry go round. we were with a young african- american kid who was the daughter of somebody who worked in the family in the neighborhood. i remembered a sign on the merry go round that said white only. i was six years old so i never focused on what that meant. boom. it kicked me right then. oh, my god. that's what that sign means. i kept insisting we not go there. that was burned into me so i think i grew up always feeling those sort of vibes that... even in the park then, they had closed the swimming pool because it had been ordered integrated. we led a group of young kids and forced them to reopen the swimming pool. >> schieffer: wow.

michael rue weiss, you also grew up in new orleans. in fact, you went to walter isaacson's high school. i guess he's considerably older than you are. was he always a role model for you? (laughing). >> we all grew up in walter's shadow. i have a hard time imagining walter back then as a civil rights leader but maybe he was. by the time i came along, it's very interesting. the nature of racial desegregation because i can remember when i came along institutional new orleans was still very, very segregated. but street life was not. i mean, you got out of school and you were playing with black kids and white kids on the street. you didn't really think about it. when it was... when this idea that you weren't supposed to be together was reimposed at the institutional level it seemed outrageous. but, yes, i grew up... you asked me a question. walter was a kind of... he was

everyone who went to the newman school was forced every couple of years to listen to a speech from the head master about how we were all supposed to become like walter isaacson. >> schieffer: (laughing) >> michael, you're still embarrassing me after all these years. >> schieffer: condoleezza rice, i want to go back to you because i do want to talk about your book as well. but it does kind of tie in to this tie to the south that you have. you were really in the bush administration among the first to recognize the real problem that katrina presented for the administration. you tell a very touching story about you were in new york when you realized what had happened and what it all meant. talk a little bit about that. >> yes. absolutely. i just want to say one other thing too. walter mentioned the segregation of pools in new orleans. i didn't learn to swim until i was 25 because bull conner wouldn't... segregated the pools in alabama. i think we have some common

experiences with segregation. yes, i was, in fact, during katrina i knew that a big hurricane was coming. i was really tired. i had been secretary of state for nine, ten months. i went to new york for a vacation. i was going to take in a show, go to the u.s. open. maybe do some shoe shopping which i'm known to do. as the hurricane unfolded i did what i thought the secretary of state needed to do. i made provisions for our passport office in new orleans. i made sure we had a way to receive the contributions that were coming around... coming in from around the world. but then that morning on thursday morning when i woke up, there i was in new york and i thought, how could you have been so stupid? to have not realized that you are not just the secretary of state. you're one of the president's closest add advisors. this is a national tragedy. most importantly you are the highest ranking african-american in the administration and

katrina has a tragically black face. what are you doing in new york? and i got a plane back to washington that afternoon. >> schieffer: what did you do? you actual uwe went down there, didn't you? >> well, i did. i first went to the white house and talked to the president about what i said was our race problem. i talked to ruth gordon who was then the president of the naacp, set up with him to meet with the president. he was gracious about doing so. and then i did go south. i went to mobile actually. to my home state of alabama. i talked with people there who had lost everything. went to an a.m.e., african methodist episcopal church that morning for church. because i really wanted it to be seen that the president of the united states had not just come packs but real concern... not just compassion but real concern for this unfolding tragedy in new orleans. >> schieffer: i want to talk to each of you a little bit about each of your books. michael lewis, you write these

great books because you can explain the most complicated things. whether it's football and, as you did, in that great book about michael orr, the blind side. or whether it's about wall street. you did it in the big short. this is kind of a follow-on. where do you think right now we are, this country? and our financial footing? how do you see all this coming down? >> we are blissfully irresponsible. we can kind of afford to be. i mean, this collapse in discussion about reducing the debt at the level of the super committee is a really good example of this. for that matter, the s&p's reduction of the credit rating of the united states treasury. we are unlike european countries, we aren't yet vulnerable to this vicious cycle.

where when markets... where markets actually considering the possibility that we won't repay our debt. when one of these things happens it's really bizarre what's going on right now. the congress fails to address the problem of our deficits. and the treasury bond market rallies. the markets' response is to throw money at the treasury. we're basically being paid to borrow money. i think that as long as that's true, we're okay. the risk is that at some point the markets wake up and do to us what they've done to greece and what they're doing to other peripheral countries in europe. they're saying sorry we don't believe you any more. we're going on jack up the rate of interest. when they jack up the rate of interest, all of a sudden we're in that cycle where we can't afford to repay our debt. >> schieffer: catherine, as a novelist, someone who sits back and takes the long view of all of this, what is your sense of where america is

right now? it seems to me we're in kind of a meantime. we seem to have lost patience. we're kind of a fast food society. we demand perfection at every turn. which is never going to be possible. how does it look to you? >> well, look, you know, what michael said, i wonder about. because nobody is throwing money at me to take out a loan. i live, you know, by my father and my grandfather's standard. that is you don't pay interest. you pay cash for it. if you can. if you can't, then you just don't buy it. i know aate lot of americans don't have that kind of money sitting around. you know, there was a whole generation that palsed us by that used to live that way. you spent what was in your pocket. and no more. i would like to see america go back to those values. >> schieffer: walter, what do you think is going on right now? has our culture changed? has this communications revolution that steve jobs had so much to do with, has it changed our culture?

and the way we are? >> yeah. at the moment particularly we've become very dif vis i have as a culture. we can't get things done. steve jobs used to talk about the difference between leadership in the private sector where if he wanted to create a new product he and people would decide what to do. if he wants to have a factory built in california it can't be done because just too much to go through. he ends up outsourcing the jobs. we're going to end up with a country that doesn't really have a great manufacturing base if we don't watch out with our education system and our ability to build factories. i think that's easily reversible because we're very creative culture. we're very imaginative. we know how to do what steve jobs did which is connect imagination to technology but we have to make sure we're doing that this century like we did last century. >> schieffer: condi rice, what about our politics today? there's not much to be proud of there, it seems to me? what do you see happening here? >> well, i'm afraid that our politics has sort of sped up and gotten very loud. our politics, our system needs

compromise because our system, our institutions, are naturally slow. divided powers. two houses of congress. it seems to me the ability to reach across the aisle and compromise has become a bit jaded. we've become a bit jaded as a country. but, you know, i think we've got a deeper problem, bob. it speaks to the way that, for instance, i and my family got ahead. i think the biggest single problem we've got is the k-12 education system. i'm worried about the deficit. i'm worried about spending more money than we have. but when i look out there and i see that i can look at your zip code and tell whether or not you're going to get a good education, that's going to go right to the core of who we are as americans. yes, we will have unemployable people. yes, we will continue to have the statistic we have now, only 30% of the people who take the basic skills test to get into the military can pass it. but i think it's going to drive us into class warfare

like we've never seen because education, even in the segregated south, was always the way that you got out. >> schieffer: i must say i could not agree more with what you're saying. we're going to take a break here. we'll come back. i'm going to give each of you a chance to ask someone on the panel a question when we come back. or creates another laptop bag, or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $13.2 billion to small businesses across the country so far this year. because the more we help them, the more we help make opportunity possible. tle emotional here? aren't you getting a little industrial? okay, there's enough energy right here in america. yeah, over 100 years worth.

okay, so you mean you just ignore the environment. actually, it's cleaner. and, it provides jobs. and it helps our economy. okay, i'm listening. [announcer] at conoco phillips we're helping power america's economy with cleaner affordable natural gas... more jobs, less emissions, a good answer for everyone. so, by reducing the impact of production... and protecting our land and water... i might get a job once we graduate. >> we're back with our panel of distinguished authors. they get a chance to turn the tables here. kitty, your question and who would it be to. >> to dr. rice absolutely. i'm in the middle of reading your book. i have to tell you, one of the parts that really rang home with me is when you were at the conference for the middle east and you set your speech aside and said, look, i know what it feels like to be palestinian and be told that you cannot walk down the highway because of who you are.

at the same time, i understand what it feels like to be an israeli mother and wonder if your house is going to be many boed and your children will be killed. i thought that was just... it was just so honor of you to expose yourself that way. my question for you is a question that i receive all the time, and that is, are things better today among african-americans and whites than they were? and i'm asked that question. i always feel like that's kind of like, you know, walter pinching michael and someone asking me what does that feel like? but you still have family in birmingham. what do you think about that? >> it's a very good question. i'm asked it all the time too. i always say that, first of all, we're never going to erase race as a factor in american life. it is a birth defect with which this country was born out of slavery. we're never going to be race- blind. but we have gotten to a place

that race is not the limiting factor that it once was. i don't think that we necessarily look at somebody who is of a different color now and say, oh, i know what they are capable of. we have a black president. we've had two black secretaries of state. we have black ceos. obviously african-americans are pushing way into territories that probably my grandparents would never have thought possible. but again, i think it goes back to whether or not race and class-- that is, race and poverty-- is not becoming even more of a constraint because with the failing public schools, i worry that the way that my grandparents got out of poverty, the way that my parents became educated, is just not going to be there for a whole bunch of kids. i do think that race and poverty is still a terrible witch's brew. >> schieffer: all right. michael lewis, do you have a question for the panel? >> yes. i'd like to... can i ask

everybody one question. it's a quick question and i'd like a quick answer. that is, everybody on this panel grew up in the south. and left. kitty has come back but everybody has had this experience of leaving the south. i wonder, i'd love to hear what the other three panelists think would have happened in their lives had they never left where they grew up. what would you have become? >> schieffer: i would answer first and just i wouldn't have gotten to go to work at cbs. i mean the reason i came to washington is because i was offered a job. i needed the money. >> what would you have been if you had stayed home? >> schieffer: i have no idea. i suppose i would have worked at fort worth star telegram which is where i worked before i came north. walter? >> well, you know, down in new orleans i was there all last week. you used to say 100 years ago new orleans was a very entrepreneurial culture. after the storm perhaps we could get that back. i was surprisesed at how vibrant and entrepreneurial new orleans now is. if i had stayed there obviously i would have been a

writer and a journalist. i worked at the picayune. i would have maybe even tried to write fiction like catherine did but wouldn't have been as successful doing it, i'm sure. >> schieffer: what about you, dr. rice? >> i would have been a school teacher like all my relatives. not a bad profession but i think i would have been a teacher in the birmingham public schools. >> schieffer: kitty. >> i would still be living in jackson mississippi wondering why i got kicked out of the junior league. (laughing). >> schieffer: condi rice, would you like to ask a question? >> i'd like to ask a question of my friend walter. walter, you've done biographies about people who you couldn't interview like einstein and ben franklin. then this wonderful biography of steve jobs. i'm always struck by whether people could have been something else. we tend to think of these great figures as destined to do what they did. is there anything else that you could have imagined steve jobs doing other than what he did? >> you know, he talked about dropping out of college and

going into the intersection of art and technology, which is what he did. but he said he almost thought of going east. he tried to do that. what would i have been if i had gone into a different field? i think he would have... he had two sides to him, the artistic side and the geeky-tech side. i think he would have been more of an artist if he had gone east. >> schieffer: walter, i'm sorry we don't have time for your question. we'll have you next time. but i think any of you could now be the moderators of "face the nation." you asked very good questions. i want to thank all of you for being with us today. that's our broadcast. we'll be back in a minute. [ mujahid ] there was a little bit of trepidation, not quite knowing what the next phase was going to be, you know, because you been, you know, this is what you had been doing.

you know, working, working, working, working, working, working. and now you're talking about, well you know, i won't be, and i get the chance to spend more time with my wife and my kids. it's my world. that's my world. ♪ [ man ] we've been in the business over the course of four centuries. [ woman ] it was a family business back then, and it still feels like a family business now. the only people who knew about us were those in new england, that moment that we got our first web order... ♪ ...we could tell we were on the verge of something magical. all of a sudden it just felt like things were changing. we can use this to advertise to bakers everywhere. [ man ] browns summit, north carolina. crescent city, california. we had a package go to kathmandu once. the web has been the reason this entire section of the warehouse exists today.

we were becoming more than this little flour company in vermont. [ woman ] we're all going after one common goal, which is to spread the joy of baking throughout the whole world. ♪ ♪ ♪ congratulations.

congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon. >> schieffer: finally today christmas has its music. the fourth has fireworks but i like thanksgiving best because it's the one holiday we celebrate by doing what we shouldn't, having a big second helping. thanksgiving is the one holiday that isn't about someone or something else. it is just about being with those we love so we gather, give thanks, and then dig in to a great meal. there is a formal run-up to some of the other holidays. easter is preceded by good friday. christmas eve is the set-up for christmas. but thanksgiving has not just

a run-up, which begins with get-away day on wednesday but also a run-out, as it were; that is, observe ed with the same discipline. the day after thanksgiving is black friday for shoppers and leftover day for the rest of us. and then there is today: sunday. go home day for the in-laws or out-laws as some call them. the day when they say we love 'em but it's time for everyone to get back on their own boat. there is no better way to celebrate the home day than to go to the fridge right now and see if there are enough scraps to put together one more turkey sandwich. a little turkey, a little mayonnaise, some salt and pepper on white bread. all you need to end a great weekend. back in a minute. avionics... tactical telecommunications... squad leader. i think the hardest transition as you get further into the military is... you know it's going to end one day. chase hired me to be a personal banker. i'm a business analyst...

manager. i'm very proud to work for chase. when you hire a veteran, you get... great leadership... decisiveness... focus. chase knows, when you hire a veteran, you're hiring america's best. chase is proud to help 100,000 veterans find jobs at home. your core competency is...competency. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm getting an upgrade. [ male announcer ] as you wish, business pro. as you wish. go national. go like a pro. now through january earn a free day with every two rentals. find out more at nationalcar.com. this was the gulf's best tourism season in years. all because so many people came to louisiana... they came to see us in florida... make that alabama... make that mississippi. the best part of the gulf is wherever you choose... and now is a great time to discover it.

this year millions of people did. we set all kinds of records. next year we're out to do even better. so come on down to louisiana... florida... alabama... mississippi. we can't wait to see you. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home. [ man #1 ] i was fascinated by balsa wood airplanes since i was a kid. [ man #2 ] i always wondered how did an airplane get in the air. at ge aviation, we build jet engines. we lift people up off the ground to 35 thousand feet. these engines are built by hand with very precise assembly techniques. [ man #3 ] it's gonna fly people around the world. safely and better than it's ever done before. it would be a real treat to hear this monster fire up. [ woman ] i think a lot of people, when they look at a jet engine, they see a big hunk of metal. but when i look at it, i see seth, mark, tom, and people like that who work on engines every day. [ man #4 ] i would love to see this thing fly. it's a dream, honestly. there it is.

awesome. that's so cool! yeah, that was awesome! [ cheering ] i wanna see that again. ♪ >> schieffer: that's our broadcast. we'll be back right here next week on face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org