>> today on "face the nation," the republicans may not have their nominee yet, at least not officially, but the general election campaign is already underway and we'll devote the next hour to it. >> this is not your father's republican party. this is a different party than i'm used to. >> the vice president took the fight directly to the republicans this week and set the tone for the coming campaign in an interview with us. >> speaking of flexible -- governor romney is a pretty flexible guy. >> the vice president was on the stump with his sites set on romney because the white house is convinced that romney will be their opponent next fall. >> just seems to be uninformed or stuck in a cold war mentality. >> but what do the republicans think about that?

we'll talk to two of the candidates -- newt gingrich ang paul. romney himself is taking nothing for granted. >> i have a ways to go before i get 1144 delegates. i'm not counting the delegates before they hatch. we'll get hanl sis on that and the supreme court arguments on health care from our political roundtable. romney adviser, kevin madden, pbs's gwen ifill, our political and legal correspondent, jan crawford and political director, john dickerson. this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning, again, and welcome, as we begin the new one-hour edition of

"face the nation," and we start with the vice president, joe biden, who sat down with us for an interview earlier this week in milwaukee, wisconsin. well, good morning, mr. vice president. >> good morning. >> schieffer: and welcome to "face the nation." we did some checking. this is your third appearance as vice president. your 55th appearance on "face the nation." that's more than any other democrat. you still haven't caught up with john mccain, who is the leader right now. well, let's get right to it. you really laid into governor romney this week. you said he was consistently wrong about everything. does this mean that you and the president have decided that mitt romney is the nominee, that he's who you are going to be facing come fall. >> bob, i can never figure out who the democratic nominee is going to be in the primary. he seems like the frontrunner. what he is saying is not fundamentally different than santorum. >> schieffer: but you would be

really surprised if he was not the nominee. >> yeah, i guess i would, but it's really amazing. i'm not being facetious. i have been surprised by this whole republican primary process. >> schieffer: why do you think he has had such a hard time closing the deal? >> i really don't know, bob. look, this is not your father's republican party. this is a different party than i'm used to. i have been around for a while, both in the house and the senate. it's a different party. and my guess is, the electorate -- the republican electorate is different than it's been the last 10, 12 years. so, you know, that's the change that i'm most fascinated with watching is how much has it changed? how far right has it gone, or how anti-government has it become? i mean, it's just a different -- seems there's almost a different language. >> schieffer: it is very clear how mitt romney, if he is the nominee, is going to try to frame this election. he's going to try it make it a referendum on barack obama.

here's what he has been saying. >> people are unhappy with the results that they have seen so far under this president. gasoline prices have doubled. the deficit is massively larger. the president said he was going to cut it in half. he has doubled it. the national debt -- the president, by the end of his four yirs, will have put in almost as much debt on this country as all of the prior presidents combined, and of course, you have 24 million people out of work, or underemployed, and so, this presidency has been a failure, and at the center ofpiece of this failure is this piece of legislation back here -- obamacare. >> schieffer: so, what is your take on that? >> i think that governor romney is a little out of touch. look, everything that he said that the american people don't think the policies have worked. romney argued about -- not an exact quote, let detroit go bankrupt. wasn't a very popular action the

president have took. now they're hiring people, hundreds of thousands of new people instead of losing 400,000 jobs. general motors is the largest corporation in the world again, 24 straight months of economic growth. americans going back to work. the unemployment rate dropping by a percent. i understand the republicans talking about obamacare. i get that. they have been against it from the beginning, but you know, you go out there and take a look, bob. everywhere i go in the country, there's millions of people out there that are benefit being now. there are those people with chronic diseases like cancer that don't have to worry about getting a phone call saying you're cut off, your insurance has run out. there are tens of thousands of several million kids on their parents' insurance policies that wouldn't be there before. and what is -- what is the romney answer? there's nothing. all they argue is -- cut. get rid of that. get rid of that. i just think that -- look, this is about the middle class, and what affects middle class

people? their jobs, being able to own a home, being able to live in a safe neighborhood, being able to send their kid to college. it's about their dignity. this is about the middle class and none of what he is offering does anything. it's just returning to the old policy. >> schieffer: well, i take your points, but the fact is unemployment did go up after the president took office and so did gas prices. >> gas prices, look, we're pumping 650,000 barrels of oil a day more than we did when we took office. there are more oil rigs and gas rigs running in the united states today than all of the rest of the world combined. we are importing less foreign oil the did the last time it was this slow was 16 years ago. these guys, what are offering $2.50 gas. i think one of them is offering that, that's what's going to happen? what's their policy? continue a $4 billion tax cut for the oil companies? drill more? where are they going to drill

more now to produce something now? and they're going out there and they're emasculating all of the efforts to deal with reaniable energy. so, they have no policy. >> schieffer: let me go back to health care. governor romney continues to say that the centerpiece of president obama's failure is health care. we are seeing these arguments in the supreme court this week. what do you think the impact would be if the court decides to throw this thing out, or if it just decides to throw out the part about the mandate that you have to buy insurance? >> well, first, i think we should bring the temperature down. you and i have watched the supreme court for a lot of years. no one has made any money betting an outcome of cases based on the oral arguments and the questions asked. we think the mandate and the law is constitutional. we think the court will rule that way. and what this is really about is the republican alternative, which is what -- they are going to continue, no matter what the

supreme court does, to go after trying to eliminate or strangle this law. in the meantime, all of those folks i mentioned before, all of those folks that are benefitting now. all of those people that are about to benefit as more kicks in 2014, they're in real trouble. this is about them. and i don't know what is the alternative these guys are offering. the ryan plan, the further go in there and take on medicare and social -- i just -- i don't get their position. >> schieffer: well, what would happen, though? i mean, if this whole thing was thrown out? if you had to start over? >> i'm not going to speculate about something i don't believe will happen. i don't believe it will happen. and so, i just think we should focus on what is the law doing for people now, and what would happen if in fact the republicans were able to repeal it. >> schieffer: you called mitt romney. you really called him out the other day for saying the

president was out of touch. here's what you said. >> governor romney has called the president of the united states out of touch -- that's a quote, out of touch, for encouraging young people to try to get manufacturing jobs. out of touch? romney? [ laughter ] i mean -- [ applause ] pretty remarkable. pretty remarkable. there's an old friend of mine says, that's hutzpah. >> schieffer: what did you mean by that? >> when you have -- i can't remember a presidential candidate in the recent past who seemed not to understand by what he says what ordinary middle class people are thinking about and are concerned about.

whether it's his comment of say, well, we ought to just let the foreclosures hit bottom, just let them go. i don't know if he understands there are millions of -- there's 12 million people out there paying their mortgage payments. they have done it on time and all we want to do is give them a chance to refinance at a lower rate. he says, no, that's not a good idea. we talk about kids going to college, and being able to get an opportunity to get a tax break to send your kid to college, orb -- or increasing the number of kids with pell grants from $6 million to $9 million. here's what i don't think governor romney seems to understand -- it's not just about the kid that doesn't get to go to college because we're not willing to help him, that's about that parent, that proud parent looks at his kid, and knows there's nothing i can do to help this kid. we are stripping people of their dignity. it's not just the kid that doesn't go, it's the family. i don't know that he understands

there are people like my dad who were -- felt ashamed that he wasn't able to borrow the money and apologizing to me. the worst thing in the world for a parent is to know that they can't help their child, whether they're sick, because they can't get insurance for them, because they have a pre-existing condition, or they can't help them get to college. i mean, and that's the part that seems to me to be missing. i don't think that they understand that piece of it. it's about dignity. these things are about people's dignity. >> schieffer: are you enjoying this republican primary? i know you said one day, god love 'em, i hope they have another 20 debates. >> well, look, i find if -- look, the one thing, bob, and by the way, remind myself of my grandfather's admonition, he said, joey, any team can beat any other team on any given day. so this is not because i'm so sure we're going to win. what i do find is of all of the times i have run for office,

bob, this is the first time the republicans are not hiding the ball. they're saying exactly what they think. they're not talking about compassionate conservative. they're not talking about the need for health care in america, but we have a different way. they're not talking about public education being the key to economic growth and stability in the country. they're just saying straight-up -- straight up what they believe. and so, in that sense, i think this is going to be an incredibly stark choice the american people are going to have, not just on the economy, but on social policy as well as educational policy. i think across the board, they have been very straightforward about where they are, and so, in that sense, god love them, they're not hiding the ball. they're just saying exactly what they believe. >> schieffer: let me ask you about -- we now know about the president's now famous unguarded moment before the microphone when he told the russian president, look -- i'll have more flexibility after the election to deal with missile defenses and so forth.

governor romney really hit him hard on that. he said he was alarming -- he said, what else is he going to be flexible about. what do you make of all of that? >> speaking of flexible, governor romney is a pretty flexible guy on his positions, but look, and by the way, i know a little bit about unguarded moments with microphones, and -- but look, here's the president just stated the obvious. the idea in this election year, we're going to be able to deal with an agreement on the russians to further reduce the nuclear arsenals and the environment we have in the united states congress now is difficult and what the president is doing is stating the obvious. it's going to be difficult. we're not going to have the flexibility and sit down and talk with people in this congress and this are going to be able to listen and work with us. probably between now and election day. so -- the second thing is,

governor romney's answer i thought was incredibly revealing. he acts like he thinks the cold war is still on. russia is still our major adversary. i don't know where he has been. we have disagreements with russia, but they're united with us on iran. the only way we're getting one -- one of only two ways we're getting material into afghanistan to the troops is through russia. they're working closely with us. they have just said to europe, if there is an oil shutdown in any way in the gulf, they'll consider increasing oil supplies to europe. that's not -- this is not 1956. >> schieffer: you know, but didn't it play to the republican allegations, because i hear this from conservatives all the time, if you don't like barack obama now, wait until he gets re-ele t re-elected because if he's free to do whatever he wants to do he is going to raise our taxes. he is going to put in gun control. he is going to do everything from -- you know, authorized gay marriage to whatever, just once he gets past that election.

>> well, look, every opportunity i get to try to seed that argument, they do. i agree with you anything that is said that allows them even -- the patina of saying that's what he is doing, they use it. but what i think is most revealing about it is the governor's response. the governor talking about this hurts israel. he either hasn't been informed yet or doesn't know that this missile defense system we put in, and i was responsible as you remember for going to europe and selling the new sis tim which better protects them, also better protects israel and in terms of the early warning capability. i mean, he just seems to be uninformed, or stuck in a cold war mentality. so, i think what the exchange did, it exposes how little the governor knows about foreign policy. >> schieffer: mr. vice president, we'll continue this

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up exactly where he intended, and where he began, which was that one, every woman in america should be able to have insurance coverage for birth control, if she so chooses. and that the catholic church and other churches should not have to pay for it, or provide it. that's exactly where we stand. >> schieffer: for the record, is that what you advised the president? >> yes, but that's also where the president was on the front end. a, the catholic church, catholic hospitals, should not have to provide for pay for this coverage as a matter of conscience for them. that's exactly where this thing ended upthey're saying that we should -- women should be prescribed or states can prescribe or individuals can proscribe. women say, you can't use birth control? i think it's totally out of touch with reality, and totally out of touch with what the independents and the right of

women to decide for themselves whether or not they want to use contraception, and i just find it remarkable that the argument is even taking place. >> schieffer: what was your -- just your personal reaction when you heard about the robert bales case, this sergeant, this american sergeant, who killed all of those people in afghanistan? >> it was -- it was just one of a sense of -- you know, my god, what a tragedy. i had a -- i immediately thought to be -- about those kids, those children, and then i thought how many of our troops who are incredible, incredible troops are going to be put further in harm's way because of this lone act. i got to admit to you, i thought a little bit about when my son was in afghanistan, when he was in iraq for a year. incidents like this actually

increase the danger for every american troop out there, and 99.9% of these kids, most remarkable generation of the world, are doing their job, they're doing it well, they're doing it for people, and it's just -- i just have this sinking feeling like, oh, my god, this is -- >> schieffer: what is our mission now in afghanistan? how long are we going to be there, and i mean, it seems to me, and ever poll suggests, the american people's patience is kind of growing thin here. >> well, you can understand why it is, it's been ten years. we set on a policy that set the course for ending our participation, military participation, in iraq, and i know we're criticized heavily by governor romney and others for setting dates. we have done the same thing we did in -- as i say, iraq, afghanistan. we have done the same thing we did in iraq. this is winding down, not kicking up. we have withdrawn 10,000 troops

of the surge so far. 23,000 more will be drawn by the end of september. the pace will continue apace until we get to the end of the process which will be out of this -- our mission will have ended as we know it now by 2014. >> schieffer: you and i have both been in washington for a long time. what's happened to our politics, mr. vice president? it's just not the way it used to be. things always looked better in the rear view mirror. >> no, i know that. i wonder myself. i sound like the guys i used to serve with, the guys who when i got there at 30 were 65. you know, it really is different, but it wasn't sort of this personalized -- you're good, you're bad, you're evil, you're -- you know, you're this -- it's just a different place. i think the leadership in the republican party is prepared to actually work with us, but think it's kind of the tale wagging the dog here. and -- >> schieffer: but you don't think it's all the republicans, do you? >> no, no, no, no, no, no.

let me put it this way. i do think -- i do think the idea of compromise is still alive and well with the democrats and the congress. they're prepared to compromise. they're prepared to make difficult decisions. but with enough of a minority in the republican party, controlling the majority, there is no -- no room for compromise. i mean, none. none. and it's never been like that before. at least not in my experience. i have been there for a long time, and but i think we'll change, bob. the american people, you know -- we -- we go through phases like this, and everybody says, you know, the politics is broken. it's always the case we have been broken. it comes back. and i think that that's one of the issues in this election, and i think the american people are going to send a message to all of the parties. guys -- you got to at least start to talk about broad

compromises on problems that we know are real, and they're going to continu to continue. >> schieffer: mr. vice president. thank you. hope to see you again before the election. >> i hope so, too. >> schieffer: i'll be back with this week' commentary and we'll get the republican take on all of this.

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the white house concluded a couple of weanings ago that mitt romney was going to be the republican nominee and that's why you saw vice president biden on "face the nation." baseball season hasn't even started yet and republicans haven't officially selected their nominee, but what we used to call the fall campaign is up and running, which means we're finding out earlier than ever how the two sides will frame the contest. republicans will try to make it a referendum on barack obama, who they will picture as a failed president, who couldn't keep his promises but is determined to raise taxes. democrats will say it's about fairness and they will paint romney as an out of touch rich guy determined to keep taxes low for his friends at the country club. voter also listen to all of this for a while and then about the time of the world series, they'll begin to think about more serious things, the economy, mostly, and who in the white house they would feel most comfortable with in times of crisis, and then as they always do they'll pick the next

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>> schieffer: welcome back now to "face the nation" and our new page two. at the top of the page today, the republican side to all of this, and we begin with newt gingrich, who has been a frequent visitor to "face the nation" during this campaign. thank you for coming again, mr. gingrich. >> thank you for having me. >> schieffer: you have the awesome responsibility of being the responder to the vice president this morning. he talked about your proposal to get gas to $2.50 a gallon. he said, though, that republicans are emasculating all efforts to deal with renewable energy, and that in fact, you have no policy. >> well, our poll i is pretty straightforward, if you look at natural gas, we have in fact pumped a lot more, volume has gone up 11%, the price has dropped so dramatically since

2008, that if the same thing happened to gasoline, it would be at $1.13 a gallon. now, i have argueded that we ought to have an american independence energy policy, so no future president will bow to a saudi king. i have argued if the president would open up the federal government's land, open up offshore drilling, and sign the keystone pipeline which will bring 700,000 barrels a day to houston from canada, that combined series of things would bring down the price of gasoline dramatically. >> schieffer: but isn't it very difficult for this president or any president to bring down gas prices because the big factor here is the fact that the chinese now need so much oil. you have turmoil in the middle east. you have this situation going on with iran. some of these things, the president can't control. >> no, but that would mean you would want more american energy because you want a margin or of error for the things you can't control. in world war ii we pumped 83% of the world's oil.

we were enormously powerful as an oil producer. the new technologies allow us in north dakota to jump from 150 million barrels in reserve to 24 billion barrels in reserve. nobody in washington has noticed the revolution in technology which should make america the leading oil producing country in the world if president obama weren't so anti-american energy. he spends money on solyndra while attacking companies that could bring down the price of gasoline. that's an irrational policy if you care about the pocketbook of the american people. >> schieffer: let's talk about what mitt romney said about the open mic where barak obama told the russian president, look, give me space here, i'll have more flexibility after the election. the vice president says, look, he is just stating reality. >> first of all, i thought you getting biden to explain obama's open mic was such a nice shift of direction from obama having

to explain biden's open mic it was almost worth watching just for that. people have to worry about when a president who has already proven he is a radical says to a russian president, give me some space so i can get re-elected because then i'll have real flexibility, you have to wonder, real flexibility for what, and you also have to ask yourself how many foreign leaders has he said that to without an open mic. how many other countries are counting on barak obama to be, quote, flexible after the election and what flexibility is it that you doesn't want to right now. >> schieffer: but when he says that, just to be the devil's advocate here, i mean, it's -- nobody ever gets much done in an election year, in washington. i mean, that's -- that's pretty much a true fact. wasn't that really just stating the obvious? i mean, it's embarrassing. i think -- >> i don't know. the last time we had an open mic incident with a foreign leader, it was sarckozy complaining of

israel, and obama saying i have to deal with him every day and if i was the israelis and i was watching this president wander around the planet, i would be a little worried and i want to know, what he is going to be like after the election. if you look at his policy, he will be more radical. this by the way, is a president whose environmental protection agency declared war on coal this week, and despite vice president biden's effort to apologize for it, his attack on the catholic church is certainly seen by the catholic bishops as a direct frontal assault on their religious liberty and they do not agreet with the vice president's interpretation of that radical assault. >> schieffer: do you think it's good politics for republicans to be campaigning against birth control. i take your points on the catholic side of it. >> this is a canard. nobody is campaigning against birth control. nobody is blocking the young lady who testified from having access to birth control. the question, is first of all, the obama rule includes

abortifications, not just things that include birth control and you can have total freedom as an individual without having to coerce a church or synagogue into doing something against its religious beliefs. is the government of the united states have the power to coerce religious institutions against their religious beliefs. that's a pretty fundamental question. >> schieffer: you are you know, i want to talk a little politics and personal politics about you. >> all right. >> schieffer: and i'm going to say in the beginning, i have learned my lesson about counting you out in this campaign. i think i declared you dead about twice, and both times you came back alive and were still in there. but right now, it looks to me like it's going to be very difficult for you. i mean, sheldon addleson, who give you $10 million or gave your super pac-10 million said the other day, he thinks you have reached the end of the line. where do you go from here? >> i think we keep campaigning and governor romney, as he himself said in the clip that you used, says he has to earn the 1144. we're not going to concede it to him. kansas last night set the second

record for coming from behind. they were down 9 points at half. that is the second biggest margin to come back from in the final four series. so, i'm going to take kansas as a model. st. louis last year was 10-and-a-half games out and going against. as an atlanta braves fan that was a very painful less opinion subpoenagovernor romney gets to 1,144 not counting disputed delegates in arizona, florida and idaho, if he gets to 1,144, he will be the nom neigh. >> schieffer: will you endorse him. >> absolutely. i will do everything that i can to elect him. if i became the nominee, they would help me. we are all committed to defeating barak obama. we think hess re-election would be a disaster for the country. >>schieffer: having said this, this has been a very personal and very tough campaign. you, yourself, have said some hard, and harsh things. i mean, one of the most arresting moments in this campaign came when you were on the cbs morning show with nora

o'donnell and i -- let me just show you what you said. you will remember. >> are you calling mitt romney a liar? >> yes. >> you're calling mitt romney a liar? >> well, you seem shocked by it, yes. i mean, what -- >> why are you saying he's a liar? >> this is a man whose staff create the pac. his millionaire friends fund the pac. he pretends that he has nothing to do with the pac. it's baloney. he's not telling the american people the truth. it's a pretense that ease not a conservative. >> schieffer: so, how do you do that, mr. speaker, you call someone a liar and you say, oh, yeah, i can endorse him. >> because there's an alternative. you didn't say to me in an ideal world is mitt romney the person i'd like to have as president, first of all, that person is newt gingrich. second as a realistic thing, barak obama, in my judgment, and i mean this you not just as a partisan. i believe he is so radical, and

i believe his policies are so dangerous to the united states that i am determined to do everything that i can to help defeat barak obama, and there's no question in my mind that mitt romney would be a dramatically better president, as would rick santorum, than barak obama in terms of the values that i hold dear. it comes down to a question as if end up with those as your two choice, i would do everything that i could to defeat barak obama. >> schieffer: mr. speaker, i want to thank you for being with us this morning. you have been very forthcome, and direct as we just saw in this campaign and we appreciate it. >> good to be with you. >> schieffer: we're going to texas to hear from another republican contender, congressman ron paul. mr. paul, welcome to "face the nation." let me talk to you first a little bit about what the vice president said about afghanistan, because basically what he said is -- we're going to stay the course there. now, i know a lot of people in your party don't particularly agree with you on foreign poli y policy, but has afghanistan been

worth our time and treasure? >> no. absolutely not. we went in there improperly. it was a waste. there's not going to be a happy ending. i think the republicans have dug a hole for themselves because they're trying to outmilitarize. the president says we should do more and 75% of american people have said, we have had enough. it's cost us too much money. it's time to come home, but this was obama's cherished position. he says, this is the good war, and now we have been there ten years. it's a sad state of affairs. i think when you see innocent people dying. when you see all of the collateral damage. you see 16 people getting murdered. that's a tragedy. but thousands of innocent people are dying, and they just call them collateral damage because we endlessly drop these bombs around and all of the people who died in iraq opinion now, it's time to change the policy. this is my argument, is the american people want it changed. they're tired of it. it's costing us too much money, but we're not offering anything

differently. so, if this is to be an issue, the other republican candidates offer nothing more than a continuation of the status quo, or actually, increasing the militarism that we have around the world. so, i think that's a losing position. >> schieffer: what are your plans now -- it seems clear to me and you can tell me i'm wrong. it seems clear to me there's no way that you are going to get the nomination now. do you intend to continue hanging around? >> obviously, yes. you know, the conventional wisdom is there's no guarantee. you were talking earlier on about romney being the candidate but that's the conventional wisdom and i would admit that, but no, the votes haven't been counted. there's quite a few states right now, there are six or seven states that we're doing quite well through the delegate process that we don't even know who is getting what so far and who knows what will happen on the first vote at the conventi n convention. so, i would say that -- it's very encouraging, because i am talking to a whole generation, which is expanding, you know, as

far as age goes, but when i can get 5200 people out on a college campus as wildly enthusiastic to hear the message of liberty and freedom and less wars and curtailing the federal reserve, there's no way i'm going to quit speaking out on this. there's no way i'm going to give up on the effort to get the republicans back to their roots. you know, in some ways they say, well, why don't you give up and this will help the republican party. the truth is, i'm trying to save the republican party from themselves, because they want perpetual wars. they don't care about presidents who assassinate american citizens. they don't care about searching our houses without search warrants, and these are the kind of things that people care with about, and if the republicans would take a different position, they may say to themselves, but right now, i see they're going to be in big trouble. what about the deficit? sure the democrats spend too much money, but the republicans say our propose is to balance the budget in 30 years.

i say cut the budget by 30 million. you have a debt crisis the worst in the history of the world and we won't cut spending, we have a problem. >> schieffer: i must say, hearing you this morning, you sound like somebody that might not support even the republican candidate come the fall. is there any way or any chance, are you thinking about maybe heading up a third party effort after the republican convention? >> no, i don't have any plans for that. i didn't hear gingrich mention that he was thinking about it, either. but, no, no, i have no plans to do that. i'm trying to win the nominati n nomination. the votes haven't been counted. i think that the views i hold are very, very popular. i think that we're in the -- we represent the future. the other candidates represent the past. the president represents the president. we represent the future about what freedom really brings us, free markets and sound money and civil liberties and a sensible foreign policy and this idea, they're living with their head in the sand to think there's not

a debt crisis. there is a debt crisis. and have to cut spending. this idea that you need to spend more money and print more money when you get into trouble is absolutely bizarre. i think common sense tells us that you just can't keep spending. this is why you talked a little bit about this discord between republicans and democrats. it's because they refuse to admit there's nothing left in the treasury and they're fighting. before we were very rich. the middle class was rich and the revenues came in. but there's nothing there, and that's why this is -- this is why this conflict is going to get much worse until we admit the truth. >> let me ask you this quickly -- some -- i think i heard somebody say, you have publicly said you'd like to be on the ticket with "sunday morning," if he gets it. would you? >> i haven't said anything like that, and i don't see how that would happen. there's too many disagreements. i like mitt romney as a person. i think he is a dignified person and i -- i -- you know, i -- i have no common ground on economics.

i mean, he doesn't -- he isn't worried about the federal reserve. and he isn't worried about the foreign policy. he doesn't talk about civil liberties, so i have a hard time to expect him ever to invite me to campaign with him. >> schieffer: would you vote for him or would you support him? >> well, i haven't made that decision yet. i'm still campaigning. >> schieffer: you haven't made the decision on whether you would support mitt romney if he get the nomination? >> no, i have not. >> schieffer: all right. well, mr. paul, thank you very much for being with us this morning. always a pleasure. >> you're welcome. >> schieffer: and we'll be back in one minute with our political roundtable. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands

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our political director, john dickerson. jan, i want to talk to you, because you were off the campaign trail this last week and up at your old haunt, the supreme court. i think vice president said it exactly right -- you can never tell how the court's going to rule based on their oral argument, because sometimes the justices just play devil's advocate, and sometimes i think they just play around with the lawyers if they're talking to there. but it was very hard to cam away from this thinking that they had much enthusiasm for the mandate, the requirement in the health care law that would require people to buy insurance. what was your take on that? >> no, that's exactly right. that's what you just said justice kennedy, the key swing vote, the human jump ball that will go with the conservatives sometimes and the liberals sometimes looked like he was quite hostile to the requirement that all americans buy health insurance and sometimes the entire law itself. you can never predict what the

court is going to do because sometimes they do change their mind. that said, it does appear that there is a majority, the 5-4 majority of conservatives with justice kennedy to stlik down that individual mandate and possibly the entire law. now, we heard the vice president in your interview say, he doesn't think that's going to happen. that he thinks that the court will still uphold the health care law, but people who are close to the president and some of my sources over the weekend i talked to said the president doesn't see it that way. he never thought this was a slam dunk. he thinks it's constitutional but he always knew going in there's a chance the court would strike this down and if it does and it's 5-4, they will characterize it as a ideological partson exercise. >> schieffer: what is your take, gwen. i know you have spent a lot of time on this week. >> endless hours of tape. the nerd side of me came out. the thing we know with this court is chief justice roberts is always trying to find the middle ground. he is trying to rule as narrowly as possible. the idea of striking down the

entire law would be judicial activism a at its most extensive and i think justice kennedy worried about aloud. the other hand, the political side of it, i don't know if i have seen anything in president obama that says he is the person who wants to declare on the supreme court and run on that. that's one theory going around in the white house but these are two men who like to find middle ground when it's poob. >> schieffer: you said ooh. >> she did! >> i'm thinking about the state of the union when for the first time with the president with six justice sitting in the chamber, took on the supreme court with justice kennedy who wrote that campaign finance decision sitting there, that's when he really and many -- you could argue, he kicked off this war,ings are i think working against the administration's interests by picking up a fight with the supreme court, and now we're seeing it play out. i don't think the justices are going to base their decision based on a fight the obama administration picked with them over campaign finance reform, but i do think that they have shown a willingness to stick it to the supreme court and base on what senior administration officials are telling me, that

is hoi they will characterize this decision, if it's 5-4 against the administration strikes it down. >> schieffer: gentlemen, i will get to you in a minute -- >> i want to say one thing. democrats like the idea of running for the court. if you vote for this person, there is what you will get in a supreme court nominee and it never works that way. that's not how people vote. they vote on health care issues and on what's important to them and it's to the degree that they want to run on what the court does or doesn't do, will be on that. >> schieffer: you're a romney man, plain and simple. what do you -- >> look, i think the health care bill is on the ballot in the court of public opinion regardless of what happens in the supreme court, whether it strikes it down or not. any relitigation of this legislation is not favorable political terrain for the president. there is going to be a very important debate on the campaign trail about the size and cost of this bill and that is really what is really made it very

unfavorable in the eyes of many voters. $1.7 trillion when we feel like we didn't have that type of money and then when it did to small businesses and the taxes that came along with it. it puts us in a very good position in this 2012 framework. >> schieffer: john, talk about the impact on the two campaigns and on the candidates. >> the president has shown a willingness to kick the supreme court in the shins. that was kind of a one-off. if he continues to fight and if this goes down in some way and the supreme court and president talks about it a lot and independent voters are going to look at it, the supreme court which they'll look like has given the thumbs down on the law, why is the president going on this is more of the obsession with health care that turned us off on him in the first place. but if there is some sense that the supreme court gives a tossive seal of approvalpproval think kevin is right, the republicans will feel energized. them say we can only way we can kill this beast is to get rid of barak obama. the independent voter also say, this thing that the president is

concerned about, if the supreme court gives this a thumbs up, and they will see that as an approval of the law and it might be a talk about size and spending and so forth, that will be -- >> 2010 hurt him with inked pent voters. -- independent voters. the size of the bill and the cost 67 the bill and the fact it had not done anything to change the health care law. >> schieffer: kevin, let me change the subject a little bit. governor romney continues to pick up delegates slowly but surely, why is he having a hard time connecting with the right side of his party? >> first of all, i disagree with the premise of the question. >> schieffer: most of the primaries more people have voted against him. >> primaries are always about the differences within a party. and when you have a battle like we have had in this party between the purists and the pragmatists. i think the divisions start to come out in the primary process. but i think the reason that the governor has gotten endorsements from people who are respected by the tea party like marco rubio and others is because he has focused on the issues of spending and deficits and

reforming government. i believe he is going to be able to coalesce and bring the party behind him and that as we go through this process, we'll see more and more support from the republicans. >> schieffer: thank you. time flies when you are having fun. we'll be back in a moment with the "face the nation" flashback. stay with us. opple

massachusetts senator, ted kennedy. it was 18 years ago, but what he told me that day may have a familiar ring to those following this year's campaign. >> in my profession in business, that if a chief executive says, look, i did this and this and this and this and this, but oh, yeah, the bottom line is a mess. at some point you get' way with that for a while and at some point, i can't tell you how to run your company better, but i can tell you i'm going to vote you out as the chief executive and vote in a new guy. that's what's happening. >> schieffer: i didn't work that

time and kennedy won handily but it did work later and romney was elected massachusetts governor. now he is trying for the second time to see if it will work at the national level. this week's "face the nation" flashback. stay with us. we'll be right back. create jobs in america. oil sands projects, like kearl, and the keystone pipeline will provide secure and reliable energy to the united states. over the coming years, projects like these could create more than half a million jobs in the us alone. from the canadian border, through the mid west, to the gulf coast. benefiting hundreds of thousands of families throughout the country. this is just what our economy needs right now. for my type 2 diabetes. me... thinking my only option was the vial and syringe dad used. and me... discovering once-daily levemir flexpen. flexpen is prefilled. doesn't need refrigeration for up to 42 days. no drawing from a vial. dial the exact dose.

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include cardinal timothy dolan and richard land of the southern baptist convention. meantime, check out our new website at facethenation.com and we're kicking off our campaign 2012 google hangout series and you can follow that live on the googleplus page thursday at 1:00 p.m. and we'll show you some of it on sunday's broadcast. see you. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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