>> schieffer: today on "face the nation," are you ready for the campaign? you better be, because the candidates have been all but chosen, and the race is on. >> hold on a little longer. a better america begins tonight. >> schieffer: well, there may be some who disagree with that, but even newt gingrich conceded the republican standard bearer will be mitt romney. >> i think, obviously, that i would be a better candidate. but the objective fact is the voters didn't think so. >> schieffer: so while romney was wrapping up the republican nomination, the democrat's candidate was-- well, it's easier to show than explain. >> what is this. >> jimmy, potus stands for president of the united states. ( applause )

>> schieffer: we'll talk politics with former mississippi governor haley barbour, california governor jerry brown, and los angeles mayor antonio villaraigosa. he is chairman of the democratic national convention. this week's google hangout is about hispanic voters. and we'll mark the one-year anniversary of the death of osama bin laden. we'll get new details on how the united states tracked him down and whether his death has made us safer. we'll hear from two "time" magazine contributors, harvard professor graham allison, and peter bergen, author of "manhunt." plus "washington post" columnist david ignatius, and our own cbs news seniority correspondent john miller. >> if you're looking for a bumper sticker to sum up how president obama has handled what we inherited, it's pretty simple-- osama bin laden is de

dead, and general motors is alive. >> schieffer: american politics and american safety in the age of terrorism on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: and good morning again. if the people on the sunday shows seem a little sleepy this morning, it is because this is the morning after the white house correspondents' dinner. washington's version of the oscars, which comes complete with its own red carpet crowded with stares of television, hollywood, both the two-legged and four-legged kind. government and journalism. the star is always whoever happens to be president, and last night was no exception. >> my fellow americans, we gather during a historic anniversary.

last year at this time-- in fact on this very weekend-- we finally delivered justice to one of the world's most notorious individuals. ( cheers and applause ). i know at this point many of you are expecting me to go after my likely opponent, newt gingrich. ( laughter ) newt, there's still time, man! ( laughter ) but i'm not going to do that. i'm not going to attack any of the republican candidates. take mitt romney. he and i actually have a lot in common. we both think of our wives as our better halves. and polls show to an alarming insulting extent, the american people agree. ( laughter ) we also both have degrees from harvard. i have one. he has two. what a snob. ( laughter ) ( applause )

and just to set the record straight, i really do enjoy attending these dinners. in fact, i had a lot more material prepared, but i have to get the secret service home in time for their new curfew. ( laughter ) >> schieffer: and on to serious business this morning, and here to talk a little politices, the man who will be the chairman of the democratic national convention this summer, the mayor of los angeles antonio villaraigosa, and the former republican governor of mississippi, who is also the former chairman of the republican party, bashar al-assad. party, haley barbour. governor romney seems pretty confident when he sat down with diane sawyer last week and asked what message he had for the president and he said, "start packing." and the other night he said, "a better america begins tonight." is it time to start measuring curtains in the oval office yet? it seems like we've got a lot of

campaign ahead of us. >> of course, we do, but i think a lot of people in the news media and a lot of others, were surprised after a not very flattering nomination contest for republicans, the first gallup poll romney's ahead,. in your poll it's a dead heat. in other polls it's a dead heat. i think a lot of people expected that romney would be like reagan was in 1980 when as you know, he was down about 14 point at this point. i didn't expect romney to be behind that far, but the fact that it's a dead heat right now after the republican nomination contest, which wasn't as helpful as we might have liked it to be. >> schieffer: mr. mayor, do you think it's that close? >> i think the country is evenly divided. i think it will be a very close election, but if you look at governor romney's record, the only people that will be packing, looking back, where the companies he bought, put in debt, and then had employees go

packing, and he made a profit. if that's what he's going to do with the economy, we're all going to be packing. i think it's going to be a very close election. it's going to be tough. the country is evenly divided, but i think ultimately president obama will win. and he'll win because he's got a record of defending, fighting for the middle class because he's set on addressing the deficit, but doing it in a way that's responsible, $2.50 of cuts for every $1 of revenue. >> schieffer: how about you, governor, do you think it's going to be close? >> not if president obama tries to run on his record. i would love to think that's what they're going to do is run on his record, because the results of his policies have been terrible. the economy grew 2.2% the last quarter, according to his administration. i mean, after the last deep recession, the economy was grow 5%, 6%, 7%. we were adding jobs by the hundreds of thousands. this has been the most peeked

recovery, and it's because of his policies, telling employers he wants to hit them with the largest tax increase in history. how does that make employers hire more people. balmcare drives drives up the cost health care, drives up the deficit. so i hope this a referendum on the president's record, because if it is, that's the best it can be for republicans. >> of course, if governor romney runs on his record, he ran on jobs. they were 47th out of 50 when he left. he ran on reducing the debt. per capita, massachusetts people were under one in the load of debt they had. he ran on reducing government, and he left his successor $1 billion in debt. so we'll see what happens if mr. romney runs on his record. >> schieffer: let me just ask you this, mr. mayor, though, there are some democrats who are disappointed, to say the least, with the president on immigration policy, for one

thing, on gay rights, on any number of things. immigration, for example, is going to be a big issue it seems to me. what about that? >> i think it is going to be an issue. i agree with governor barbour that the biggest issue is going to be an issue. if we were to give kids a pathway to citizenship, if they went to college or the military, it would add $1.5 trillion to the u.s. economy. i believe that there should be a pathway for citizenship. the president has said from the beginning that he supports a pathway to citizenship. mr. romney, on the other hand, has called for the deportation of 11 million people. he said the dream act would be a handout, and has campaigned with chris kovak, who authored the arizona and alabama laws. so i think on the issue of immigration, that the president

is more in tune with the mainstream of america. >> schieffer: what about that, governor barbour. hispanics make up 11% of the voting population, and it seemed to me during the primaries, the republicans just almost tried to run hispanics off at some point. >> well, there's no question the hispanic vote's a very important vote, and it's a very important vote in some states. it's a very important vote nationally. and the republicans didn't do well in '08. unemployment among hispanics is higher among others in the united states, particularly among young latinos. they are being hurt worse by the policies of this administration. and don't think that that doesn't enter heavily into their and their family's thinking. so many not employed at all. their hopes were built up. when you talk about the dream act, i've been around here a long time. if you're serious about legislation, you don't wait to bring it up in a lame duck

session, which is what they did with the dream act. they never brought it up in the first two years when they had 60 democrats in the senate, huge majority in the house. they don't bring it up until after the 2010 election. i mean, how serious is that? how serious is the president about the budget when his own tax commission that he appointed comes out with a report he's never mentioned. >> schieffer: let me just get back to the dream act and let's just talk about that. marco rubio has come up with his version of the dream act. under the president's version, as i understand it, people who serve in the military, who go to college, who came into this country, whose parents brought them into this country, then they can-- there's a path to citizenship. i guess marco rubio says his is they would get a work permit and they could apply for citizenship. could you support the dream act that the president, as he outlines it, governor barbour, as a republican? >> i have to tell you, bob, i'm not familiar with every detail.

but some of the concepts are clearly attractive. the fact that people come and serve in our military certainly ought to give them some status in the united states, whether it's that they have the right to stay and to work as long as they pay taxes, as long as they don't break the law, maybe there should be a different path to citizenship. >> schieffer: are you saying, though, that governor romney is going to have to move a little on this issue? >> well, i'm not saying anything for governor romney. what i am saying is-- >> schieffer: you wish he would? >> hispanic votes are in play here because of the economy and because of other policiesful of this administration have been bad for hispanics as well as everybody else. and we better go try to get those votes. >> i would support the president's version of the dream act. i think that senator rubio's version of the dream act would create a second-class status for folks, and i understand that speaker boehner said he doesn't expect that issue will be

addressed in this congress. but we should engage in a conversation, and in a debate. >> schieffer: do you think, mr. mayor, if mitt romney decided to put senator rubio from florida on the ticket that that would make a difference? >> i haven't seen-- governor barbour knows a lot more about these elections than i do-- but i have rarely seen a vice presidential candidate do much-- >> schieffer: jack kennedy, when he put lyndon johnson-- >> like i said, rarely. it might help you with a state. i don't expect that it's going to win you an election or win you an entire demographic. this is going to be fought out on the issues, and i think the president's better on the issues, but that remains to be seen. >> schieffer: what do you think, governor? >> well, again, i hope this campaign is a campaign about policy and the results of the president's policies. can a vice presidential candidate just change the whole

deck? no, i don't think so. you're right. one of the theories of picking a running mate is like kennedy ask johnson. pick a running mate that will give you a big state. could romney find someone to give him pennsylvania, give him ohio, give him michigan? does he need somebody to give him florida? does he need it anyway? but the idea that you're going to reshuffle the deck would be very unusual in american history. >> we great lakes democrat and republican. >> schieffer: it might be the beginning of a new era. gentlemen, thank you so much. when we come back a man who has seen an election or two himself, california governor jerry brown.

can. >> schieffer: we're back now with the 34th governor of california who also happens to be the 39th governor of california, jerry brown, who in between time was also the

california attorney general, and the mayor of oakland. he also ran for president a couple of times in there, and someone i first interviewed back in 1979. governor, a pleasure to see you. >> my pleasure. >> schieffer: i want to ask you something, how much is politics changed since you were first governor? >> a hell of a lot. it's more polarized. the money is more centrally collected and distributed by the two major parties. particularly on the republican side, there's an enforcement of discipline that's ideological and as was mentioned today in the "washington post," takes on the quality of a cult. so we're in a much more adversarial environment. we've always had it historically, but now it's ramped up several degrees as evidenced by the filibuster and holds on nominations, and the great power can't govern itself with this kind of dysfunction. it just won't work. >> schieffer: so do you say a way out of it?

>> we need some kind of decisive electiones, some kind of breakdown, leading to a puerto rico through. and that's not quite evident on the horizon yet. >> schieffer: how do you-- we just heard haley barbour and the l.a. mayor-- how do you see this presidential race shaping up? >> i see it as a close elect. i see it as unpredictable. if you ask me, there's no doubt i believe obama should win, but between now and november, there's going to be a lot of back-and-forth. these big, secret superpacs are going to load the money in and it's going to be nasty, but i have to say this, i've never seen a cooler, more reasoned, intelligent candidate and leader than obama. this man, under pressure, shows a lot of grace and a lot of thoughtfulness, and that's going to serve him well. because i've been in these races. and under pressure,un, somebody can blow or make a mistake and say something stupid. and that often is the race. so i'd say obama has the

strength to make it all the way, and i sure hope he does. >> schieffer: will you be out campaigning for him? >> yeah, i will, although in this world of national media, it's all on the president and on romney's side it's mostly him, and then the money in these pacs that run around and put the poison into the bloodstream of the body politics, but those two candidates, how they react, and how they set forth their vision for america. that's going to make the difference alive and we should add the democrats have their own set of those pacs, too. >> yeah, they do. >> schieffer: it's not just something the republicans are doing. you heard haley barbour and mayor villaraigosa talking about marco rubio. do you see that helping? would that help mitt romney in california, for example, which right now, i would guess, is looking pretty good for barack obama. >> i don't think romney can win california. i don't think it would hurt. i think it would show a little

diversity on the part of a party that is pretty monolithic. but the fact is the republicans just recently-- it wasn't that true a few years ago-- but they're so hostile to millions and millions of people in this country, and while they can't vote, they have millions and millions of people who they're related to or who identify with them, and you just can't ignore 12 million people, particularly when they're picking our food, they're working in the hotels and restaurants, and now they're increasingly in very important jobs. so i think the republicans have to move out of that-- that reactionary cul-de-sac that some of the more extreme members are pushing them. >> schieffer: we kind of know who the key demographic groups are going to be. it is going to be hispanics-- 11% of the population-- it is going to be women, who are more than half the electorate now. we know that it is going to be independents. barack obama won a lot of them the last time out. he doesn't seem to be doing as well with independent voters

now. what do you think the election will turn on? will it be in the end the economy? >> i think it turns on if one of the candidates screws up first and makes a mistake. that's always how-- elections tend to move on the other person making the mistake. secondly, i think it comes down to who do the american people have the most confidence in? and generally an summit has an advantage. not a big advantage, but in these close elections, i think the fact that he's in power gives him an advantage, and then romney's going to try to use the fact that there's a lot of discontent. people aren't very happy at the way things are going, and it's obvious because we're recovering very slowly, not because of mr. obama. the fact is the mortgage meltdown was a financial recession, and the historic data shows this-- they take much longer to recover from. and that breakdown was due in large part because the lack of

regulation-- not too much government but too little on wall street. >> couric: you know, you-- you've been around for a while. >> almost as long as you. ( laughter ) >> schieffer: that's exactly right. i may have you by a year or so. but i am just wondering, as you look back over your career, and your career is still very much in progress, what advice do you have for politicians? what do you think you've learned in these years you spent in public life. >> well, i've learned you don't get things done overnight. it does take time. things that i was talking about 30 years ago-- pension reform, renewable energy, completing the california water plan, high-speed rail-- they're right at the top of the agenda today. so what do i say? hey, you've got to take 30 years to get it done because you can't get it done overnight. you can't get it in a term. but we're in to instant gratification, get it done. if you don't do it in two years, you're a failure.

life doesn't work that way-- at least from the point of view of somebody in their 74th year. it looks like things take longer, and now i'm kind of glad they do because i still have something to do. >> schieffer: what was the hardest, being mayor of oakland or being governor of california? >> governor is more difficult. it's more removed. it's more abstract. you're dealing with bills. as mayor you're dealing with cops and criminals and development. i like to say condos, cops, criminals. you want to the make the streets safer and you want to get people to live and make the city bloom and prosper. so mayor is a hands-on thing. you're walking down the same streets, the same corners, the same high schools. you see them day after day. governor, you're in the capitol, but the capitol isn't really anywhere. the state is so big that it's a very different experience than the hands-on, immediate encounter that a mayor has. >> schieffer: are you going to run for reelection? >> i'm thinking about it. >> schieffer: are you? >> i am thinking about it.

but i have enough right now to keep me busy for another coup of years but i wouldn't rule it out. >> schieffer: git's a pleasure to have you. >> this nation and congress is paralyzed. [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business, it's good for the entire community.

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it's us that work out here. [ michael ] we're on the forefront of revitalizing manufacturing. we're proving that it can be done here, and it can be done well. [ ilona ] i came to ge after the plant i was working at closed after 33 years. ge's giving me the chance to start back over. [ cindy ] there's construction workers everywhere. so what does that mean? it means work. it means work for more people. [ brian ] there's a bright future here, and there's a chance to get on the ground floor of something big, something that will bring us back. not only this company, but this country. ♪ >> schieffer: today's commentary is more of an indulgence thane comment, really. but when we invited governor jerry brown to "face the nation," i could not help but think back to a morning in 1979 when california's young governor was thinking of challenging a sitting president for the democratic nomination. a kid with a lot of almost red

hair sat down with the governor on a log in the hills above sacramento and talked about why he would want to do that. let me ask you, what's your assessment of this-- the first half of the carter presidency as you kind of put it there? do you think the president has been a good manager as he said he was going to be during the campaign? >> well, i don't think of a president's function as manager. they should function as a leader. we don't think of churchill or de gaulle or roosevelt as managers of the white house or the government but rather as strong individuals who stand clearly for a particular vision about their countries and can set themes and priorities, and inspire people to follow their leadership. and in those terms, obviously, we've seen over the last few years, drift, confusion, and a good deal of lack of confidence. >> schieffer: i still like jerry brown's concept of what the presidency ought to be, but jimmy carter got the nomination.

later, of course, he lost the presidency to ronald reagan. my one disappointment that day was bachelor brown was linked romantically to singer linda ronstadt in those days and i had hoped to meet her. well, as the interview concluded, i realizesomeone had been eavesdropping behind a tree, but when i went to investigate, she disappeared into the woods, and we never found out who it was. back in a minute. [ male announcer ] this is corporate caterers, miami, florida. in here, great food demands a great presentation. so at&t showed corporate caterers how to better collaborate by using a mobile solution, in a whole new way. using real-time photo sharing abilities, they can create and maintain high standards, from kitchen to table. this technology allows us to collaborate with our drivers

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>> schieffer: welcome back now to page two. we are back with two "time" magazine contributors, graham allison, and peter bergen, who are responsible for "time's" cover story this week about the hunt for osama bin laden and they have some new details. mr. bergen also has a brand new book coming out tuesday called "manhunt: the ten-year search for bin laden." david ignatius of the "washington post" joins us this morning from santa barbara, and our own cbs news correspondent john miller is with us, who usually on week days is with "cbs this morning" but he's up early on a sunday for a change. john was actually the last person, the last american believe to interview bin laden back in 1998 back when he was

with abc. graham allison, i want to start with you, because, you know, we're hearing the administration and everybody is talking about how they got osama bin laden, and they certainly did, but it turns out that some of the president's most senior advisers didn't want to do this, and tell us how you found out that and tell us the details. >> well, it's an amazing story, and it's one twist and turn is more amazing than the next. at the last meeting when president obama went around the room, the vice president, biden, said don't do it. so if biden had been president, osama bin laden would be alive today. gates, the most experienced member of the national-- in national security decision making somebody who had seen carter make decisiones, bush v1, reagan, he would not have chosen the option. even his chief-- the military

person who was most directly halved, hoss cartwright, would have chosen a different option. as gates said, he's seen a lot of presidents make difficult decisions. this is one of the toughest calls he's seen. >> schieffer: i never ask a reporter to reveal their sources but how did you find this out? >> most of these people are folks i know professionally for a long career and i've talked to. and so i've been doing a case study of this, like my case study of the cuban missile crisis, fascinated by the national security decision process, and the very hard calls that this required. there's a temptation to think of this as a no-brainer. you get osama bin laden in your crosshairs, of course you go. but hunters know the most important question when are you thinking about a target is when to pull the trigger. if you shoot too soon, you know, the turkey may get away. if you wait too long, he may hear you and he may escape. so this was a case where for

five months after there was a plausible-- i mean, actually after c.i.a. thought they had this guy in the crosshairs, the process deliberated. they get to the point where the president thought he had a high confidence that this was the right target in his crosshairs and he took careful aim before firing. >> schieffer: you make the point in your piece in "time" that this was one time when the government worked tactually worked. peter bergen, i want to ask you, your book comes out tuesday. you've been looking at this. graham concentrated mostly on the decision making toward the end. you've been looking at this for a long time. what did you find out that you find most significant? >> well, it's getting to the question of the president's decision for a minute. michael moral, the department director of the c.i.a., around december, before the may raid, told the president that the circumstantial case that iraq had weapons of mass destruction

was better than want circumstantial case of bin laden was in abatobad. that's a pretty amazing concept. president obama asked morel and others, why is it so many people have different percentages about the possibility that bin laden is there, and morel says something along the lines of a lot of this is about your experience. the people hunting bin laden, the people who spent years doing this, have highest degree of servitude. the people involved in the w.m.d., tend to have a lower degree of servitude. as graham said, when your two most senior advisers and your second-most senior military adviser are both sort of advising you to do something pretty different, it is an amazing decision that he made. i also reported on the ground in abatobad and was able to get inside-- >> schieffer: you also interviewed osama bin laden at one time, did you not? >> yeah, two out of three of us here have done that.

and, you know, it was interesting to go inside the room where bin laden was killed. kind of expected it would be like going inside hitler's bunker. it didn't really feel like that. it was more like visiting a squalid suburban compound. he had a tiny toilet he had to squat over. a tiny kitchen. it was not large. he was surrounded by his kids. it was a comfortable retirement. he spent six years there and he was surrounded by his wives and his kids. it was-- he was trying to retain control of his organization. i was given access to some of the declassified documents that explained what he was trying to do. some of it was delusional, but he was still trying to stay in charge of what remained of the rest of his organization. >> schieffer: let's go out to santa barbara. david ignatius, you also got a look at some documents that were not widely distributed. people are feeling pretty good about that. but how do you feel about it?

has-- has the death of osama bin laden really changed things very much? >> well, i have two things, bob. one is that al qaeda burned itself out. it was an organization that even bin laden himself before he was killed understood had failed in its aims of violent jihad. if you read these documents you find bin laden, who is deeply upset by mistakes his affiliates made in killing too many muslims to the point where he ruminates about rebanding the organizationes, dropping the name al qaeda altogether. he knew before he died the extent of that military failure. in terms of ideas, as i travel the arab world and read about what's happened there in this amazing year of uprising and awakening, i'm struck by how many of the people who have risen owe their muslim ideology

to people who bin laden himself looked to. they're some of the same roots. you see muslim brotherhood leaders rising into prominent positions in egypt, possibly in syria, if bashar al-assad is overthrown, certainly in the future, and libya. so bin laden's violent dreams of jihad probably died with him. but the idea of purifying the muslim world of western influence, of getting what he called apostate leaders like hosni mubarak out of their jobs, that's actually happened. >> schieffer: john miller, upper, i guess, the last american to interview osama bin laden. let me just ask you about one thing. "newsweek" magazine is reporting this morning that the u.s. government was laying the groundwork to issue sealed indictments against members of the pack taken government or anyone else they believed that had helped bin laden but no smoking gun was found, and the indictments were never returned.

have you found since then-- and i know you were in the government at the point this was happening-- is there any evidence that pakistanis were involved? >> well, i think that the theory of, you know, preparing indictments, or laying the groundwork to prepare indictments is a bit of a stretch. when you have something that may be less than 100 people in the entire u.s. government had any inkling of and the people who had any actual understanding of it was, you know, kind of in the below 20 number, the idea that they would be presenting evidence to a grand jury of 23 people about this, the whole process would have been pretty much a waste of paper. but to get to your question which is did they know? after the fact, we had very little indication that anybody in the pack taken government was any less surprised about osama bin laden being in abatobad than anybody else who heard the

story. they seem to be genuinely shocked. a lot of work was done after that to kind of figure out from the an intelligence perspective who knew what and when and there's no indication that at a high level any deal was made or that there was any awareness that i saw jacob, i think this is the most amazing-- this whole thing, every twist and turn it's sort of more amazing than the last one. but i would say the most amazing thing about this is there were only two possibilities. only the head of the i.s.i., leadership of pack taken military, knew that a guy had been living in their country for eight years, had been in a house for six years hfive wives, had children in the hospital, so everybody has imagined, of course they had to know. or the other hypothesis is they didn't know. now, which of these is more frightening? the first case at least you know who you're dealing with. they're complicit. that wouldn't normal expectation. i can't think of anybody who has

actually integrated in their head a picture of pack taken leadership in which they could not know. it just seems inconceivable. but on the other hand, all of the evidence seized in the raid, which was a huge amount of evidence, and all the rest of the intelligence has been combthrough carefully looking for leads for die guys to go get after. so there's been a lot of cleanup after this. no evidence whatever of people compliceit. you have to entertain the secretary hypothesis that they didn't know and that they didn't know is equally more frightening. >> an interesting middle ground, though. there is some suggestion they had some awareness that there might be a wife or wives there, that it was part of a tacit deal we'll just keep that on the side, never imagining, by the way, that osama bin laden himself would be there, because why would he be in such a high-risk place as abatobad? the deal was if we don't mention that, then al qaeda doesn't attack pakistan. >> schieffer: peter, what do you think? >> there's no evidence anyone in

the pakistani government knew. bin laden was a very paranoid and disciplined person. there were people in the couple pound who didn't know bin laden was living there, some of the wives of the couriers are. by the way, it took 10 years ask a half trillion dollars for the united states to find bin laden, and they weren't aware he was living there until august of 2010. also, by the way, the bin laden had tried to kill president musharraf, so there was no love lost between the pakistani state and bin laden. >> schieffer: there is another nugget in your story, graham, that was really fascinating, and that is how did they keep this raid a secret for so long? >> well, tom donelan's good one-liner is the only way to keep a secret in washington is don't tell anybody. ( laughter ) and i think the fact-- i would say-- >> schieffer: i mean, they really held this very close. >> until 24 hours before the operation, the majority of the members of the national security council were in the dark.

so this was held extremely tightly. six people in the white house right through until almost the end. and i think it reminds us that sometimes secrets matter. if this had leaked, had appeared in a log or appeared in the press, osama bin laden would have vanished. i mean, if i had been involved as an adviser in the process, i would have said, "we gotta shoot sooner. you can't wait over this long period of time to be sure you've got the right guy in the crosshairs and make sure you aim and practice before you fire." but they did. and i think it suggests something about a cool discipline that was a little surprising. >> schieffer: i just want to go around, and i'll start with david on this one, david, are we safer today because osama bin laden is dead? >> yes. i think without question. as near as i can tell from the documents i looked at, until the day he died, he was looking for ways to kill americans, looking

for ways to get al qaeda operatives will into the united states. he was instructing people to train in aviation, meaning he looked for a reprize of the september 11 attacks. he specifically-- this may have been fantasy as peter suggests earlier-- but he specifically wanted to target our president, barack obama. he also wanted to kill general petraeus. so in terms of killing americans, he wanted to do it. the fact that he's gone and his core al qaeda leadership is so badly battered, i think does make us safer. the person who is now in charge seems much more comfortable than bin laden was in these peripheral fights in muslim countries where a lot of muslims get killed. >> schieffer: and that is zawahiri, he's an egyptian doctor, and he's been with the movement for a long time. he has tried to insert himself in the struggle. he had a video message in

february, onward lions of syria, that the syrian opposition. there's not a lot of evidence that the syrian opposition sees him as its leader, although there are some al qaeda members who were involved in operations against bashar al-assad. on your basic question, the president made a tough decision. he's going to argue, and he's right, that americans are safer because of that. >> schieffer: peter, what's your thought? >> yeah, 17 americans have been killed in the united states by al qaeda or people influenced by its ideas since 9/11. more americans die in their bath tubes, accidentally drowning. we don't have an irrational fear of accidental bath tub drownings. about 300 people die a year in that manner. the death of bin laden-- this process was happening before the death of bin laden, the arab spring-- they were losing the law of ideas in the muslim world, as david indicated, even bin laden understood that was a problem. so, you know, we're much, much,

much, much safer. >> schieffer: quickly, graham. >> ythey bit off the head of the snake. but i think the big news is we live now in an era in which other people can do this. so while al qaeda is at the point of strategic defeat, the idea that the u.s. is not vulnerable to major attacks in the future is, unfortunately, wrong. and we will be as long as we can see. >> schieffer: john? >> i think al qaeda figured out something important which was the messenger is more important than the message. so, frankly, now we've got the tail wagging the dog, which is they're reach, the masses and we are seeing through the home grown groan extremist it might not be al qaeda's front office but the message is getting out and we do see the plots every year against the u.s. soil. >> schieffer: gentlemen, thank you very much. i learned a lot here. we'll be back with highlights from our "face the nation" google hangout. next.

>> schieffer: cbs news political director john dickerson hosted our latest "face the nation" google hangout on the role of hispanic voters in campaign 2012. and our participants have some interesting things to say. here's a look. >> help us define, first, what we're talking about with hispanics. >> i think we should be thinking about hispanics, latinos--

whatever you want to call us-- as american voters. we live in both worlds. so i identify myself a puerto rican but i identify mile as a bostonian in the united states. >> what we need to recognize is hispanics are not a monolithic group. i think that mantra needs to be shouted across the country. when you're talking to latinos this year, we're disproportionately have higher unemployment, so that's what we need to focus on, those issues. >> why did the president do so well among hispanic voters? >> the president is working to strengthen the middle class. he's working to build an economy in which hard work and responsibility pays off. and to build an america in which we're not divided, in which we're united. and mitt romney he vetod the dream act. he's calling for all undocumented immigrants to self-deport. hispanics know that the president is on their side. they know that he's fighting for comprehensive immigration reform and for the dream act, and that's why we're seeing so much support for our candidate. >> there was so much

misinformation in what whatshe just said. >> this president has hurt the hispanic community in so many ways. he made so many promises from not-- saying that he would pass imgration reform in his first year, three years later we still don't have a proposal. he had super majorities in both chambers of commerce, and he didn't even give a. to the economy, the hispanics have been hurt the most by the economy. the principles and policies of president barack obama have devastated hispanic households. and what we have seen is one after another of these promises made to latinos all across this country have been broken by this president. >> the problem is that, you know, with romney, he says his grandparents or his father was born in mexico. i'm surprised i'm not seeing him in a photo op outside of a taco stand. ( laughter ) it just feels like the president

will speak spanish as a way to say, i'm down with you. but, you know, i'm in the middle on this one, okay. >> yeah. >> i was looking forward to a lot more immigration reform from our current president. i supported him. >> what advice would you give president obama? >> you know, remember what you promised us. i would just say be true to yourself, because every time you don't, you give the opposition a lot of ammunition to say, you know, where is that change that was promised? >> i'm one of those democrats who has been deeply disappointed in obama during his first term. i think the criticism of he hasn't been that into immigrants has been true. >> are you saying he's just not that into you? >> exactly, exactly. but on the other hand, you know, he's not that into immigrants, but the other guy wants to drive them all out of the country. >> i'm not sure about that, frank, because this president

has the highest rates of deportations of any president in the history of the united states. and he also has not addressed immigration. we tried to work with this president-- in the first two years of president obama eye didn't care if it was a republican or democrat. we have an immigration system that is broken, and i don't care who passes it. and he absolutely was not committed to. >> if marco rubio were to join governor romney on the ticket, i want some sense of you from either if it will help a great deal with hispanic voteres, it won't help at all, or it will be a wash? >> i think it helps in florida. it wouldn't help much with other latinos. i think he's already calculated that romney's going to lose in 2012, that romney's going to lose the latino vote big, and what marco rubio is doing is getting ready for the day after the election to try to repair the republican are brand. >> schieffer: see the full google hangout on the "face the

nation" google plus page.

>> schieffer: finally, it was 20 years ago today that some of the worst riots in american history broke out in los angeles. perfect they were over, 55 people would die, more than 2300 would be hurt. >> there's no police presence down here. >> schieffer: and $1 billion in damage would be recorded. that is our "face the nation" flashback. it would take the police, u.s. marines, the army, and the national guard to finally restore order. the riots broke out after a jury acquitted a group of los angeles police officers who had been caught on videotape beating a speeding driver named rodney king after a high-speed chase. some of the officers were later convicted in federal court, and

king won a multi-million-dollar civil lawsuit but was in and out of trouble with the law for many years. >> we were simply overwhelmed. >> schieffer: even so, the case would have a lasting impact on race relations and police procedure. >> nine 11, do you need police, fire, or medical? >> schieffer: when the trayvon martin case came to public attention this year, king said the screams on those tapes reminded him of his own. today's "face the nation" flashback. what's your secret? .

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>> schieffer: and that's it for us today. we want to thank you for being with us, and we'll see you next week right here on "face the nation." see you then. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org