from washington the mclaughlin group the american original. for over three decades the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. the mclaughlin group is brought to you by at&t. tonight we tell wisconsin, we tell our country and we tell people all across the globe, that voters really do want leaders who stand up and make the tough decisions. >> scott walker stays as governor of wisconsin. republican walker beat back a

recall vote. that recall effort was brought by democrat tom barrett. barrett is the democratic mayor of milwaukee, wisconsin. he got 46% of the vote. barrett lost. walker got 53%. a 7 point spread. walker has two and a half years to go in his four the recall democratic strategic gem was precipitated by walker's aggressive meshs to -- measures to cut wisconsin's budget, notably the ones that stripped public employees, wisconsin state employees of their collective bargaining rights, most of them. walker's forced workers to pay more for healthcare and pension benefits. walkers move sparked protesters at the state capital. largely labor unions were able to collect almost 1 million

sixty, thus forcing this week's election. anti-walker and prowalker groups spent some $75 million coming from outside wisconsin, half of it. question, why did walker win? and why did labor ruse? >> pat buchanan? >> people will say his people out spent him 7-1 and second those in wisconsin don't like recall elections. they don't think it was deserved. but john, i think the consequence of this is historic. it certainly spells a crisis and may spell the doom of these public sector unions. what scott walker did, he won the vote of one-third of all union families, after he had ended the dues checkoff for unions in wisconsin. what did that mean? when the dues weren't checked off, more than one-half of the members quit the union and kept their dues, a third of the teachers quit the union and

kept their dues, and this happened the same day, john, as san diego and san jose, california voted, people voted to end the pensions of their union employees from government, and put them on 401-ks. there is a war inside the democratic party between the public sector unions, which are loyal allies of obama and the other folks, some of the private sector unions. and the war is caused by the fact of the deficits and government has to be cut and slashed, the democrats being the party of government, they are the ones that are going to suffer most. >> what do you think? your party is coming apart? >> i don't think there is a war inside the democratic party. there is a war inside the public unions, they have rather sha rudely -- rather well opened up this wedge as people who look at public sector unions as people having overly generous benefits and they are overly generous it

was a consider written back in the day when, instead of giving higher wages, unions bargained for better benefits. we are out of that stage now and the unions are going to have to retrench. what happened in wisconsin is an embarrassment for the unions but they are going to work a whole lot harder the rest of this year to make sure things don't get worse. plus the fact the recall election in the state senate worked. the democrats took back control of the state senate, which will allow them to slow, cripple scott walker's agenda so all is not lost. >> when was that senate election? >> the same day. it was a recall. the republicans lost and the democrat won and the balance of power has shifted in the state. scott walker may be the darling for the moment, but spending $50 million and losing control of the state senate isn't that big a bargain. he is not going to have many imitate tores around the country. i think republicans are. >> i think it highlighted how

one of the obama narratives isn't working. that is the idea that obama is fighting against the special interest. that is one of the ideas they tried to lay out in wisconsin is that there is a union, the working man fighting against big money. unions are big money. five of the top ten political spenders over the years are labor unions. but government unions, specifically, are these very politically connected groups that give lots of money and get paid i think something like the average compensation is over $40 an hour compared to the private sector, where it is about $28. so these government unions are special interest. so the democrats can pretend to be fighting against special interests, but not when they are on the same side of the government union. well listen, there is a real crisis in the state and local governments today, which is they are -- their revenues are down dramatically and they cannot reduce their costs in part because a lot of these public service unions have compensation way in excess of the private sector, in terms of pension and his in terms of hourly pay.

it is $1414 çan hour higher on average for the public sector union than for the private sector union. you have the sense of things that private citizens are working for the government rather than the government working for the public. they don't want to be in a position where so much is going on, why does it happen? becausal the people who negotiate these, by and large, are the politicians who want the support of the public service unions. there is something corrupt in that practice. they ought to have these contracts determined by independent commissions and not by. on. flashback four years. november 4, 2008. the race to become us president. democrat barack obama versus republican john mccain. obama wins the state of wisconsin by 14 points. not surprising. republican candidates for president consistently lose in wisconsin. the last republican presidential candidate to win in -- in wisconsin was ronald wilson

reagan, nearly three decades ago. so, although republican walker won wisconsin's recall vote, 18% of walker supporters support na barack obama. question. can president obama take comfort from this fact? or is wisconsin no longer a sure bet for him? pat? >> wisconsin is not a sure bet for barack obama. he is still favored. the exit polls showed him up by about 8 but the exit polls show walkner a tie too. >> five months from now. >> here's what's going to happen. the democrats can't take it for granted. so they are going to have to put money and resources and effort, whereas formerly it was safe, it is no longer safe and republicans could pick up a senate seat in wisconsin. >> hold on. this is being fed to you. why didn't president obama campaign for democrat tom barrett in wisconsin? barrett now is the mayor of

milwaukee, and he is a democrat. let's ask obama's presidential deputy campaign manager why. >> this is a race for governor with a guy who was recalled. a challenger, trying to get him out of office. has nothing to do with president obama at the top of the ticket, and it certainly does not have anything to do with mitt romney at the top of the republican ticket. >> are you embarrassed by this? >> no i'm not embarrassed. first of all, if -- if obama is in trouble in wisconsin he is in trouble elsewhere. it is a reliable democratic state. do i get to finish? >> yeah go ahead. >> they were looking at the numbers. they saw this was not going to work. people don't like recall elections. they think they should be reserved for ousting crooks not over differences, and also there was nobody undecided in the

state. people had chosen up where they were. the president would go in there, all he would do is energize the republicans. bill clinton went in there, that was enough. >> he did do a fly over job. >> and one tweet. he tweeted the day of the election. please go out and vote for my guy. >> and where was he california? >> no minnesota. >> oh, can you imagine this? and he flew from minnesota. >> if the democrats had poured every dollar they had in, i don't think they could have matched the enormous sums. providing $250,000 checks, they spent $50 million. the democrats were not going to match that. and. >> don't you sense that your fellow democrats think that obama tinked out on them? he didn't show for his

candidate. obama would still have done that. >> no, he can do that all he wants. he has a win in november. this is about november. >> republicannen choose yays imin voting to keep walker was higher than democratic enthusiasm when pollsters asked what your energy level was of the democrats in the primary chose barrett who lost from 2010, over kathleen faulk, who really was a big labor champion. she was going to roll back all the walker things. so the far left there was even losing control over the democratic party. i'm going to put this to you. november 6, 2012. five months forward from this date. will wisconsin vote democratic for current u.s. president barack obama? former massachusetts governor mitt romney? >> i think people across america, certainly my state, understand that america's at a tipping point. and that we can't sustain the kind of unprecedented growth we have right now in the federal

government. if the governor were to come in and talk specifically about what he is going to the risk he is willing to take to turn the country around, that would be compelling. >> so who is going to win the vote? >> if the economy is as weak as it will be over the next five months, i think president obama will lose wisconsin. >> really? do you anticipate that economic condition will prevail? >> i do. i think we are in a very, very weak economy. i don't so how it is going to get turned around. the unemployment numbers are going to be weak housing numbers are going to be weak, spending numbers are going to be weak and ultimately, this is going to be placed on the plate of president obama. >> do you think he was told that by his vade vicars? -- advisers? >> stay out of this. >> make believe it doesn't exist? oh he goes with his own in order to deflect attention from wisconsin? >> i think eleanor is right. they looked at the numbers,

figured out whether or not he could actually turn it around. >> exactly. >> they came to the conclusion he couldn't turn it around, and therefore he didn't want to seem. >> i will tell you why he didn't go into wisconsin. obama doesn't go in where it doesn't help obama. i've never seen anyone who never goes to the wall for somebody else. i don't think, i understand why guys on the hill don't feel loyal to him. how many guys has he fallen on his sword for in his whole career? >> do you think obama made a mistake in not going into wisconsin? >> yes, i do. >> let me finish. >> even if he was going to lose, i think you go in there and standby your guy. the union guys, i don't agree with them, he went to the wall for obama. >> you think the well of the democratic party across the country have taken note of it and it hasn't helped the morale? >> it is like the gold water thing. we knew we were going down the tube. >> past the ultimate conviction

politician. pat's the you'll mat conviction politician. but he didn't win his races. >> we have got to get out. we've got to get to the queen. exit question. on a national damage scale, 0-10, how much damage has the wisconsin governor's recall collapse done to president obama and a second presidential term? >> probably 3 or 4 to obama but 8 or 9 to public unions. 1.5 to obama and the public unions took a blow, yes, but you are not going to eradicate them, pat. they'll be back. >> it is a three and wisconsin is only in play if it is a huge blowout for romney. it is not going to be the tipping voted. >> you are not forget that go a lot of what we saw on the screen this week was there about a year ago. this is the second go around

for the same government. you understand? >> yes. >> so it is the second go around for all the conclusions we have reached. or at least established some beach head on. are you there? >> yes. let me just say this. >> i think the grading here is low. >> yes, but the excessive pay for the public service unions in comparison to the private sector employees is going to be a major issue in this election. and this highlights it, and that is why it is going to be a real bit of baggage for obama. >> what do you say? 5, 6? >> no i give it a 3. >> i'll give it a 4. when we come back. long live the queen.

issue two. diamond jubilee. >> the events that i have attend today mark my diamond jubilee have been a humbling experience. it has touched me deeply to see so many sizes of families, neighbors and friends celebrating together, in such a happy atmosphere. >> queen elizabeth i i this week celebrated her diamond jubilee. 60 years of service as reigning queen of england. celebrations include aid star-studded concert on the steps of buckingham palace that featured sir elton john, sir paul mccartney, sir tom jones. over 1000 boats rode the thames

with the queen leading the pageant on a royal barge. a thanksgiving service at st. paul's cathedral and a carriage procession through london concluded the celebration. over 1.5 million people gathered to show their allegiance to the extremely popular queen. a uk poll shows an 80% approval rating for her majesty, who is now the second longer reigning monarch to serve in british history. only queen victoria, 1837-1190 reigned four years longer. elizabeth is the 32nd great granddaughter of king albert the first king of england he ruled over a millennium ago. reigning queen elizabeth i i rose to power 60 years ago after

her father, king george iv i, passed away. 45 nations have a man ark in place, including denmark and spain. why does it still thrive? >> it thrives over in europe. i once had a european cabinet minister tell me europe was populated by two different kinds of people. people who did what they were told and followed rules and up starts who went out on their own and teleall got on a boat and came to america, leaving behind people who do what they are told nengland, it is something that brings the country together, without necessarily having political power that can be a force of unity. >> it is an embodiment of coffinty, continuity, and all these things, she is head of state as opposed to head of government. it separates the country if you will from the government and regime. i think it is good for england. >> it is an absolute monarch.

>> this is not henry v iii or elizabeth i. >> who else has the power? the prime minister. who picks the prime minister? does she pick the prime minister? >> she names the individual sent up to her by the dominant party. >> she names the prime minister. she has to do the naming. it is more than naming. >> she doesn't go into parliament and pick out the minister. >> she doesn't have to obey parliament. >> but she better not, not do it. >> well wait a minute. >> on important decisions for example going to war or something of that nature, does she have to be involved in that decision? >> sure the king of england took them to war with only about 20 people involved in the whole thing. >> she has to sign off. >> she is in charge of the armed forces and in charge of who the

prime minister is. not bad. some people say she doesn't do anything. but she has done a lot. >> not bad is the way i would feel if they made me king. let's face -t she is a symbol of unity in that country. she is revered in that country after 60 years and that is a wonderful quality. >> that is okay. but you know, let's get more realistic. does it work for minister david cameron, let's hear what he has to say. >> many countries will find their own way to have that mixture of stability and democracy that we all cherish. in america, you have the constitution, something that you revere. in britain we don't have a constitution, not a written constitution, but we have this combination of money ark and elected democracy that works for us. >> why else does it work? shall i tell you? >> yes. >> economics. tourists. they love it. they go there. >> i'm sure that is a part of

it. >> it is also very expensive to maintain. >> how does it balance out? if you were judging do you think it is a moneymaker for them? >> i don't know. it may be a moneymaker year do you think it is a net moneymaker? >> you are a mercenariry john. >> i'm realistic. but the point of this is,. >> is there anything more important than money to you? >> what do you mean? >> you are talking about this is a 1000-year tradition. >> my concern is the poverty rate. i would like to see the nature. >> would you like to see the vatican abolished too. >> you know the vatican is in trouble. i'm. >> let's get those e-mails from inside the vatican and do a segment on that. i'm looking forward to that. what i would like to say is this is a triumph rebranding. 20 years ago when she had her 40th anniversary, she called it

the worst year. three of her four children were divorced, the palace had set on fire. everybody was talking about eliminating the monarch. she has turned this into a wonderful symbol again. she has a glorious grandson and the prince is into organic farming. there are a lot of. >> how is harry related to her? >> harry is a grandson. the second grandson. >> but the marriage. >> is prince charles going to become king? >> yes. >> will they jump over charles? >> no. >> to william? >> no. >> charles will be difficult because he is his mother. >> you are past praising the tradition but you look at it from family view. you have had divorces,

co-habitation. >> they were a couple together for years, the prince and princess now, kate middleton. so it is not, not reaffirming traditional values. >> remember the telephone call something about when he thought he was not on the phone he was on the phone? >> prince phillip? >> you remember that? he wants it to be her little

predictions pat? >> white house leak of the institutes secrets will become a major scandal. >> governor's defense fund will eliminate him as a running mate for romney. i think the leak of the information sources and the way we got osama bin laden was one of the real, serious breaches of national security. >> russian president putin's visit to beijing last week will prove to be a water shed historical moment. bye bye