>> schieffer: today on "face the nation," from negative to down right nasty, how low can they go? >> if you want a president who will make things better in the african american community, you are looking at him. (mixed boos and applause) >> reporter: mitt romney got roundly booed at the n.a.a.c.p. convention, but in a week like this that was almost a pleasant interlude. in so many words, the romney campaign called the president a liar. >> when a president doesn't tell the truth, how can we trust him to lead? >> schieffer: the obama campaign suggested even worse about romney in a conference call with reporters. >> either mitt romney-- through his own words and his own signature-- was misrepresenting his position at bane to the s.e.c., which is a felony, or he was misrepresenting his position

at bain to the american people. >> schieffer: romney fought back in five separate interviews and called for an apology. >> this is reckless and absurd on his part and it's something which is beneath his dignity. >> schieffer: back and forth it went. in the cruelest slap of all, the obama campaign rolled out an ad featuring mitt romney singing. (singing off key) ♪ for purple mountains majesty... ♪ >> schieffer: today we'll hear from stephanie cuter who made the allegations against romney. kevin madden, senior romney advisor and paul ryan, wisconsin congressman said to be on romney's short list of possible running mates. we'll get analysis from moody's mark zandi, former clinton labor secretary robert reich, john fund of the "national review," rana foroohar of "time" magazine new york magazine's mike rich, michael gerson of the "washington post" and our own john dicker son and norah

o'donnell. >> this feels kind of good! i need to cool off a little bit. >> schieffer: he may have something there and we'll try to make sense of all of it because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning again. stephanie cutter, who's emerged as one of the main point people for the obama campaign and kevin madden, the long-time top advisor to mitt romney are at the table together with us and, i must say, this campaign did get down and dirty last week. and i want to start with the very latest, stephanie, i want to play some more of that new ad going on the air in some of the key battleground states that your people have put out. >> (singing off key) ♪ oh beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain

♪ for purple mountains majesty above the fruited plain ♪ america, america, god shed his grace on thee ♪ and crown thy good with brotherhood... ♪ >> schieffer: let me put you at ease, first, kevin, we'll leave the musical reviews to other critics who would be more qualified on. that stephanie, really, the message here seems to be that mitt romney is a hypocrite. are you trying to say he's un-american? >> of course not, bob. of course not. the ad pokes fun a little bit, tries to have some fun with it, but then it walks through exactly what mitt romney's record is. the "washington post" reported that he invested in firms that became the pioneers of outsourcing. it's well documented that as the governor of massachusetts he used taxpayer dollars to outsource jobs to india and his

tax policies now encourage that same type of outsourcing. this is a legitimate discussion about mitt romney's record in the past but what he wants to do now for this country. >> schieffer: we'll get back to that and talk about it some more. kevin, what's your reaction? >> i find it very troubling for a number of reasons. i think it is troubling that they would mock somebody singing "god bless america." i think what's more troubling is what's missing from the president's message. this is an ad talking about governor romney where we had a jobs report come out recently, we have 8.2% unemployment. we have anemic job growth in this country, we have 23 million americans struggling to find work. we have record deficits. we have people that are trying to find a job, they can't find one. people that have a job are really worried about losing it. and the president does not have an answer to that for the american people. he is not talking about his record because he doesn't have one to run on. i think that's what's really troubling. right now i think in many ways

you're going to see a mirror discussion of what the american people are looking for right now. we have one candidate who is talking about the economy, what he wants to do to move the country forward, what he wants to do to create greater prosperity for more americans, how we're going to get this country back on track and create jobs and that candidate is governor romney. then you have president obama who at this time of very tough economic struggles is telling the american public that the one thing that they need to be worried about, the two things they need to be worried about, the three things they need to be worried about are what's in governor romney's financial disclosures. i think that's a very troubling place for the country to be when we have our president right now who's not willing to talk about what he's going to do to fix the economy and has only... is only interested in attacking governor romney. >> schieffer: well, stephanie, you were the one that put the point on it. you said that the... that mitt romney either misled the securities and exchange commission when he filled out forms about what his status with with bain capital or he misled the american people and you said if he misled the securities and

exchange commission he was guilty of a felony. now... >> no, i said which would be a felony. but, bob, let me make two points. >> schieffer: all right. >> first, to address what kevin said about the differences in this race. i think it's wholly unaccurate what he said. anybody who is out there listening to the president, out there on the trail-- and i encourage everybody to do that, to listen to what he's saying on the stump-- he's putting forward a defense of his record, because we are proud of what we've been able to do to right the ship of this economy. we still have more work to do but we've made progress. and number two, where he wants to take the country. that's wholly different than what mitt romney is saying on the stump. it's a purely negative stump speech that mitt romney is saying. now, let's remember, part of this stump speech is to talk about how the president doesn't understand freedom. doesn't feel the passion of freedom and doesn't understand america. what about that gives you any sense of where mitt romney's going to take this country? >> schieffer: let me just go back to kevin because that brings us to this.

either he did put down on the s.e.c. documents that he was the c.e.o. and sole owner of these companies, is bain capital, or he wasn't. because when he filled out his financial disclosure for when he got ready to run for office he said he left bain capital in 1999. and, of course, the reason this is important is that after 1999 some of those companies that bain owned went into bankruptcy, there were some jobs that were outsourced and he's saying i didn't have anything to do with this. either he was the c.e.o. or he wasn't. why would he have signed his name to those documents? >> well, look, first i think it is very troubling that the president would direct this campaign to label someone like governor romney who is is a very good and honorable man-- as a felon. that's very troubling.... >> schieffer: let's talk about... >> i let l get to that point. what's equally disappointing is that the obama campaign continues to focus on these attacks even though fact check

after fact check, investigative journalist after investigative journalist have shown governor left bain in 1999. the reason there is a document in 2002 that that had his signature is during that transition from 1999 from 2002 where there was transfer of ownership to the new partners of bain that there was a duty to sign those documents. but every single... even a bipartisan commission indicated governor romney left bain in 1999. this has been established yet the obama campaign, the president himself continued to pursue these inaccurate statements and i think it's to the detriment of the public right now because the public wants and needs an argument about the economy. they need to debate about what we're going to do to move this country forward and the president is avoiding that debate. >> okay so a couple points on what kevin said. first, if you're signing an s.e.c. document with your own signature that you're the president, c.e.o., chairman of the board and 100% owner of a company, in what world are you

living in that you're not in charge? what american understands that you don't bear any responsibility for the decisions that were made at that company if you're at the head of it? if he wasn't the head of it, who was? and the simple point is if you're telling the s.e.c. you're in charge but you're telling the american people that you bear no responsibility, one of those things is not true. it's not the obama campaign making these allegations. it's independent reporting from the press. everyday there's a new fact out there about mitt romney's involvement with bain from post-1999. today there's a bloomberg story up that they didn't announce his departure until 2001. there's reports yesterday in the "boston globe" that he was appearing in press releases in 1999 after the date of his departure. let me just finish with this. it doesn't make any difference that we're arguing the semantics of when mitt romney left bain capital. he has put for his sole rationale being president his experience at bain capital and that every decision he'll make

as president should be seen through the lens of his experience with bain capital and we're just getting a taste of that. whether it's investing in companies... and those investments happened before 1999 when mitt romney was, in his words, in charge that became the pioneers in outsourcing or whether it's investing in companies, loading them up with it and pushing them into bankruptcy and yet you walk away with hundreds of millions of dollars but you're leaving workers without jobs, pensions, health care and companies decimated. those are legitimate discussions to have, particularly because mitt romney put it on the table. >> time and time again it's been established-- even by democrats such as steve pagliuca, a massachusetts democrat at bain-- said mitt romney left in 1999. it was established as fact yet you continue to pursue it. >> schieffer: let me ask you this, kevin. some democrats say that mitt romney could clear up all of this if he would simply release his income tax returns.

he has released the tax returns for one year, he says he'll release the ones from the current year. why is he doing what all other people who... why isn't he doing what everybody else has run for president has done and that is release enough of his tax returns to get a sense of where his money is coming from and what he's doing. >> reporter: governor romney has released tax returns. he's gone above and beyond the law that's required of financial disclosure. he released tax returns in 2010, and also an estimate of the 2011 returns. these returns show that he paid over $6 million in taxes. $7 million of his income went to charity which is 16% of his income. he's also filed hundreds and hundreds of pages of financial disclosures with the s.e.c. he did so in 2008 when he first ran for president.... >> schieffer: but why not just release the returns and get it over with? >> he's gone above and beyond it. he's gone above and beyond it.

most importantly we have to remember that the only reason that the obama campaign continues to make these charges is they're picking line items that are actually in the financial disclosure form that the president... that governor romney has provided to the s.e.c. and others. >> that's absolutely not true, bob. that he has had to amend his financial disclosure forms for the one year of tax returns that mitt romney put out, for 2010, he had to go back and amend his financial disclosures forms because there were investments on his 2010 taxes that weren't on his disclosure forms. when did we learn about a swiss bank account? >> governor romney has dutifully and according to the law filed all of his financial disclosure requirements. he's gone above the law.... >> schieffer: could he be confirmed as a member of a cabinet-- either a democratic or republican cabinet-- with the amount of financial information that he has provided? >> absolutely. i mean the disclosure laws that we have are being dutifully followed by this campaign. he has complied with them 100%. and that's the reason you're having this discussion is because he's gone above and

beyond the laws. not just the s.e.c. disclosures. >> this is not about... no one is suggestioning... that's not what this discussion is about. this discussion is about transparency and showing the american people what your perspective is and what judgments you're going to make as president. so let's just take for an for example.... >> schieffer: you suggested he wasn't following the law. >> you labeled him a felon! >> we saw the transcript at the beginning of the show. what i said exactly-- and i'm happy to repeat it because i think the american people need to understand this-- that either you're the c.e.o., president, chairman of the board of bain capital as you attest to the s.e.c. or you he's telling the american people he bears no responsibility for that. those two things both can't be true. either you're in charge or you're not. and i think on t information that's been dripping out from independent sources-- not from the obama campaign-- is that he was involved in bain capital. what he's doing is misrespecting to the american people. he should take responsibility. >> schieffer: he wants an

apology. >> he's not going to get an apology. just a few months ago in the mitt romney primary mitt romney said to his opponents-- who were crushing him at the time-- "stop whining." and that's a good message for the romney campaign. instead of whining about what the obama campaign is saying, just put the facts out there and let people decide rather than trying to hide them. the tax returns is exactly just about that. if he didn't gain any tax advantages from having investments in the cayman islands, bermuda, and a swiss bank account then show us. show the american people. what are you hiding? >> what's most disappointing about this is that the obama campaign is focusing on 23 million americans struggling to find work in the economy. there are deficits being piled up. we've seen $4 trillion added to the deficit just under this president. and the obama campaign-- this is what they want to focus on. governor romney believes that he... the most important thing we can do is talk to the american people about what we're going to do to fix this economy. that's his focus. >> schieffer: let me inject one more thing. i was really kind of surprised by the afternoon when our jan

crawford asked governor romney what he thought about this hubbub about it suddenly coming about that the olympic team's uniforms were not being made in america. in fact part of them were being made in china. i was surprised when the governor refused to say whether he thought the uniforms ought to be made in america or not. now it comes to light that when he was running the olympic committee it turns out that the uniforms were designed in canada and were being made by a canadian company. is that true? that's what i've been told. >> i do not know but, again, i would say that the people that are out there watching the show right now that haven't made up their mind about this campaign, the people in have a job and are afraid of losing it and the people.... >> schieffer: this is not about... >> i don't think that they're concerned about olympic uniforms or pins. i think what they're most concerned about is the fact that this president is spending the

country into oblivion, that we don't have jobs, that we had a jobs report come out recently to show we have anemic job growth. we have a g.d.p..... >> schieffer: okay. >> and that's what we should be focused on. >> you know what they are concerned about? they're concerned about their jobs going overseas and i think what that's what the olympic uniform discussion is about. about how we bring jobs back to this country and make the goods here we can ship all over the world. >> i would agree with. that i would agree with that. the president's stimulus bill sends millions of dollars... billions of dollars overseas to companies. >> schieffer: we're going to let it go right there. i will ask paul ryan about some of this. he's going to be with us. he's said to be on the short list of running mates for mitt romney. we'll talk to him about that when we come back. thanks. >> was all about arrests... chasing bad guys. now i see my work differently. we analyze crime data, spot patterns,

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he's the chairman of the budget committee, a key romney supporter... some say he is on the short list of possible running mates. congressman you are speaking us today from the city of parks, jaynesville, wisconsin. we're glad to have you. i take it you're indoors. we're glad you're in a good place. i ought to ask this question even though you probably won't answer this question. are you on the short list? have you been told that and what kind of information does the romney campaign want from you? >> bob, you are very clairvoyant. i'm not going to answer this question because it doesn't do the romney campaign any favors to speculate in this area. so i just don't want to comment because i don't think it's helpful to their campaign process. >> schieffer: do you think mitt romney... let's get to it. do you think mitt romney could clear up a lot of this confusion over when he was at bain capital and when he left and what he was doing there if he just released some income tax returns?

>> look, he's already done that. >> schieffer: one year. >> these attacks have been labeled by the independent fact checkers as untrue. bob, i'm sitting here in jaynesville, wisconsin, people are not worried about the details as to when mitt romney left bain capital to save the olympics. or the details about his assets which are managed by a blind trust, for pete's sake. they're worried about their jobs and their families' future. and barack obama, he doesn't want to talk about that. he has a terrible jobs result. he has a terrible record to run on. since he can't run on this record he has gone to dividing this country in order to distract the country to win the election. this is not the 2008 barack obama we thought we were getting. this is not the candidate of hope and change. this is a candidate who is hoping to change the subject by attacking his opponent with attacks that have already been label bid independent fact checkers as deceitful and untrue. >> schieffer: well, you know, scott walker, your governor out there in wisconsin, has been encouraging mitt romney to fight harder. he told dan balz of the

"washington post," for example, "never fight a battle on your heels." is governor romney going to have to put out... i know he's put out 58 points or whatever it is of things he's going to do to improve the economy. but can we expect some time in this campaign where he's going to put an economic plan out that there that people can kind of put their arms around? isn't he going to have to go beyond just saying barack obama ought not to be president? >> well, he's been doing that. look, this is why i think mitt romney won the primary. this is why i endorsed mitt romney in the primary hearing in wisconsin because he was more specific than anybody running for president about specifically what he would do to prevent a debt crisis to create jobs, reform the tax code. to reform these entitlement programs from bankruptcy. look at the record barack obama has to run on. it's the worst economic recovery on record, the highest deficits and biggest government since world war ii, the worst jobs quarter in two years and the highest poverty rates in a generation. that's not a record you can run on and mitt romney has been very clear and very specific with how

he'll do things differently to get our economy turned around to save us from a debt crisis and so he will continue to emphasize those things and at the end of the day it's going to be a big choice about two futures. do you want the path the president has put us on-- a path of debt, doubt, and decline, a welfare state with a debt crisis-- or the mitt romney path this which has been very clear about prosperity, the american idea, turning the economy around and getting us back to growth again? >> schieffer: again, i go back to my point here. isn't he going to have to say something beyond "we've got to keep taxes low on businesses to get this economy going again"? isn't it going to take a much bolder plan that that? this economy is in bad shape. we don't know what's going to happen with the european economies. there are all sorts of factors going into this beyond just keeping taxes low for business. shouldn't we expect more from him on that front?

what would you suggest? >> reporter: yes and we're getting more. we in the house have passed a specific budget detailing how it would solve this problem. the senate hasn't passed a budget for three years. president obama hasn't tried for four years to deal with this problem. mitt romney has put out more specifics on reforming the tax code, cleaning up the corporate system, getting rid of special interest loopholes, lowering rates to 25% on corporations. he has put out more specifics on how to reform entitlement programs, to saved me care from bankruptcy, to cut government spending, to reduce the deficits than barack obama, the united states senate has. so he has put out these specifics so i think this narrative is kind of false in many ways because what mitt romney has done is given us not only specific plans but reapplying those core principles that made america great in the first place, on how to restore economic growth and get the american idea with the safety net back on track because i have to tell you, bob, the next few years are going to make it or break it for america. we will determine the direction

of this country for a long time, what kind of people we're going to be, what kind of country we're going to have and, yes, mitt romney has put out lots of specifics on exactly how to deal with those things and, yeah, i think you need to continue to emphasize those so we have a real clear choice of futures about what kind of country we want to have when people go to the polls in november. >> schieffer: what did you... >> barack obama is not going to be able to run on his record. >> schieffer: what did you make of the leak that i guess obviously came from the romney campaign this week that condoleezza rice has emerged as a top possibility for running mate? would she be good? >> i love condi, she's fantastic. i think she's somebody absolutely worthy of consideration. >> schieffer: all right, well, congressman, we want to thank you for coming this morning out there in the city of parks. (laughs) as you all call it. back in a moment. >> thanks for the plug, bob. >> schieffer: we'll have more about congress and their priorities. ♪

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>> schieffer: there was once this guy who loved to talk about guns. and when he couldn't figure out any other way to work guns into the conversation he would just say "i think i heard a gunshot! speaking of guns--" and off he'd go talking about his favorite subject. which brings me to congress where house republicans did their favorite thing last week, virtually their only thing of late. for the 33rd time, they voted to repeal all or part of the health care law, knowing that the action was totally meaningless because the senate would never go along. now, mind you, this is no endorsement of the new health care law. we need health care reform, but i am a long way from believing the president's plan is the best way to go about it. my beef is that congress cannot seem to figure out how to do

anything but vote on this one issue over and over time after time day after day. hey, guys, we hear you, we take your point. but the way i heard it, government is there to improve the lives of citizens. you seem to believe all this repetitious blather will help you raise campaign money, maybe so. but it is hard for me to see how it helps anyone else. the best estimates are that congress is has wasted a total of two full work 80 hours-- voting on this one thing. according to the

obal economy. the capital costs. so you do the numbers. do you think we're getting our money's worth when congress spends two weeks voting on the same thing over and over again? i think they believe that. back in a moment.

reques or summary prospes with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. >> schieffer: some of our stations will be leaving us now. for most of you we'll be back with a discussion with top economists including moody's mark zandi, the former labor secretary robert reich, rana foroohar of "time" magazine and john fund of the "national review". we'll talk about where they think the economy will be on election day. plus, this week's "face the nation" google hangout. stay with us.

>> schieffer: we're back now. we're joined by mark zandi, the chief economists for moody's analytics. rana foroohar-- and i apologize for getting your name a little bit wrong-- and also john fund who is with the american spectator... >> "national review". >> a long time member of the "wall street journal." and out in berkeley, california, the former clinton labor secretary robert reich, author of the e-book "beyond outrage.". i want to thank you for joining us. robert reich, let me just start with you. we're four months from the election now. i think most people still believe the outcome of this election hinges on what the state of the economy is going to be. where do you think we will be on election day?

>> well, bob, economic forecasters exist in order to make astrologyers look good. so i'm not going to venture... there's some many variables. the down side and the worries are number one obviously the euro zone which is drifting into a deeper and deeper recession but you also have china's slowdown and we don't know what impact that could have. it could have a much larger impact than europe. on the other hand there is a silver lining here in the united states in that june employment report that otherwise was quite discouraging we saw that the hours worked by the typical worker was up... were up. that is that employers are increasing hours and also increasing the pay of workers which might indicate increasing demand for workers. >> schieffer: mark zandi, what's your take? >> i'm not much at astrology but i'll take a crack at economic forecasts. i think the economy on election day will feel pretty much like it feels today. the benchmark is the unemployment rate. the unemployment rate today

18.2% nationwide. if you told me it's 8% on election day i'd say that sounds right. one perhaps interesting point, it's lower in some of the swing states. so ohio it's closer to 7%, virginia closer to 5%, new hampshire closer to 5%. unemployment is 8% in florida. so in some of the key swing states the economy is doing a bit better. >> schieffer: do people out there... i mean those of us who talk about all this kind of stuff in washington, we talk about these numbers that tick up or down. is hoo that how people decide what shape they think the economy is in? >> no, but they feel the numbers right? i think they sense that the economy isn't fully engaged. we're creating 75,000 jobs per month. they know we're growing but that doesn't feel good and that's not enough to keep the unemployment rate down. so they feel the numbers. >> bob, i think almost everyone out there has a friend or family member who's out of work or has trouble finding a job. 63% of americans say we're on the wrong track. and the job creators-- small and

big businesses-- they know one thing for sure, if nothing is done, the largest tax increase in american history begins december 31 and so far congress, the white house, everybody hasn't come up with a plan. that creates economic uncertainty. the biggest single enemy of job creation and economic uncertainty and we have a lot of that right now. >> schieffer: let me go to rana because you wrote something very interesting the other day. you said that since 1967 when consumer confidence is as low as it is right now the incumbent is always defeated. does that mean this thing is already over? >> well, you know, i actually think we're on the verge of a historic upset. that's true, the statistic you just gave and it would make you think obama has no chance of winning this election. but i think this election is going to hinge on middle-class pain i think people know what's happened in the last four years haven't been done to obama's policy but globalization, the rise of technology.

each recovery since the early 1990s has been weaker and taken longer than the one before. so this is a 20-year problem. this is not a three or four year problem and whoever can best speak to the middle-class is the person who will win. sheaf swhef do you mean "historic upset"? >> i they diggsly if you had consumer confidence numbers this weak and growth this low there would be no chance the incumbent is going to win but frankly i think the only thing weeker than the economy is mitt romney's electoral skills and i think he hasn't really put himself in a good position for this debate over the middle-class. >> schieffer: is the president doing enough to tell his story? he was on charlie rose this morning at a an interview charlie did last week and the president said he thought his biggest mistake was that he hadn't been able to really tell the story. he said he went into the presidency thinking it was about policy and he said he needed to do a better job of telling

people where we were. the romney folks came right back and said "it's not about story telling." robert reich, you've been there. has the president done a good job of explaining where he is and where the country is and what he's done? >> i think the president has done a reasonably good job. the speech he gave in december in kansas about where the economy has been over the last 20, 30 years, where it needs to go, the structural changes in the economy i thought was a masterful speech. but he's also painted for americans a very, very high expectation of a quick recovery. that's what he did initially from the worst recession since the great depression of the 1930s and i think inevitably there's a sense of letdown. i would recommend very strong they the president now sketch in his second term for americans what he would do. kind of in bold strokes to get the economy moving as it should be moving again toward 4% or 5%

unemployment. >> schieffer: john fund, what should mitt romney be doing? is he doing enough? >> this is the summer. a lot of people are focusing on side issues, bain capital. voters are going to wait, i think patiently, for the acceptance speech which is will outline where people want to go in the next four years. mitt romney has to flesh his out but president obama has a real problem. his second-term agenda is a mystery. in fact, his own party thinks it's a mystery. there have been three separate votes on his budget priorities in the congress. democrats haven't voted for them. they refuse to hold a vote on obama's own tax proposals because democrats don't want to run with these kind of tax increases coming. even obama's alternative to the bush tax cuts would tax j.p. morgan and general electric at a higher rate than many small businesses. that's not a story you want to sell. the story is the bad story line, not that he hasn't told it well. >> schieffer: mark, what is the state of the economy? how bad is it with all of the

stuff going on in europe and so forth as you look at it as a neutral observer? >> it's much improved. think about when the president took office. in january of 2009 we lost 8 25,000 jobs. we're now creating jobs and we've been creating jobs for over two years. we've created four million jobs. so the economy is moving in the right direction. scott prices are rising, house price iss have stabilized but we're not where we need to be. an 8.2% unemployment rate is way too high. the unemployment rate people would feel comfortable with would be 5.5% to 6% so we have a long way to go. but i think the key here for the president is the trend lines. he's got to make clear that look where we were, look where we are today and then you draw the line you have two data points, you draw the line and you can see where the future is headed. >> schieffer: rana, bob reich just said, of course, it needs to be bold strokes. are there any bold strokes? >> well, i think that there are bold strokes and i disagree....

>> schieffer: such snaz. >> i think the president would like to spend more on infrastructure and education. this is what we need to be talking about right now. i'm sad we're spending so much time talking about taxes because one thing that's not going to get us a growth boom is a tax cut. it hasn't worked in the last three or four years, it hasn't worked since 2001 when we had much broader across-the-board tax cuts. we need to be focused on infrastructure spending, on how to get our roads in better shape and our schools in better shape and i think if business saw that government was investing in this country and making it a place you want to do business that they would start spending $2 trillion on their balance sheets. >> the problem with that is four years ago we had an enormous stimulus package which we were told was going into infrastructure and two years later the president had to admit in public "well, i was wrong, there were no shovel ready jobs." so we've heard that story before. words are easy in washington. watch what people do, not what they say. >> schieffer: here would be the question i pose to both of you. is there any way to get the two sides-- the republicans there

the house and the white house and the democrats in the senate-- on the same page? >> yes, the day after the election. the day after the election there will be clarity because the voters will have spoken. look, bill clinton handled this differently. after the republicans thrashed him in the '94 elections bill clinton moved to the middle. he worked with the republican congress, they changed policies, clinton got things done. he got the message that the voters wanted a course correction and he moved somewhat in that direction. obama didn't do that. obama has fought and fought and fought. the senate hasn't passed a budget for three years. that's called gridlock. so rather than do the clinton approach he's doing the obama approach which is gridlock. >> schieffer: mr. reich? >> if i may, i was there in the clinton administration and i saw what happened. in 1995 newt gingrich almost sunk the republican party and much of the country by using a kind of tactic that current republicans are using-- that is threatening to do absolutely

nothing, say no to everything or to bring the government to an absolute halt. the republicans here and now, the republicans that the president has had to deal with are much more like gingrich in 1995. they said nothing no to absolutely everything the president has come up with. it's impossible to reach common ground with people who have no common ground and put forward no common ground. >> but, bob, the republicans and democrats passed a lot of legislation in '95 and '96. so if your storyline is correct, something must have been different then because the republicans and democrats passed a lot of legislation. >> i'll tell you what happened after 1996 when the republicans learned they could not follow newt gingrich tactics and kind of burn the house down tactics they began to cooperate with the president. but it was not until they learned that lesson. the current group of republicans has not learned that lesson. >> schieffer: well, is the consensus here, then, that nothing is going to happen before the election? >> not a thing. >> no, i don't think anything's going to happen before. but i agree with bob and i think

we need to move beyond partisan politics. we are living in a globalized world. jobs can go anywhere now, that's not going to change and that has nothing to do with the president's politics. we need to look at the core problems: improving education, building infrastructure, making america a better place to put jobs. >> the key issue is... these are important issues, no doubt. but the key issue now is sustainability. that's why taxes are so important because both governor romney and president obama have different perspectives on how we're going to do that. >> schieffer: mark, let me ask you this: your agency was one of those who downgraded the credit rating of the united states. >> no, that's not... s&p did that. >> schieffer: s&p, okay, they did. do you see any indication that that may happen again? >> i'm not part of the rating agency. i have no information on that so hopefully they'll listen to what i say but from that perspective

i think if policymakers, the next president and congress don't address how we achieve fiscal sustainability, that is future... in the future how we're going to get deficits low enough to stabilize our debt-to-g.d.p. ratio, if we can't do that in a credible way odds are we'll have problems with the credit rating agencies. if they bail.... >> schieffer: on that happy note we're going to have to end this. we'll be back in one minute with our political panel. thanks to all of you.

down here, folks measure commitment by what's getting done. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. >> schieffer: we're back now with our political round table in washington, michael gerson, the columnist in for the "washington post," used to work for george bush. our cbs news panel team of norah o'donnell and john dickerson and in new york, new york man sooen frank rich. frank, we're glad to have you. (laughs) i want to start with something we didn't know about when this

broadcast started but it is my understanding that just a few minutes ago the romney campaign bought time on "face the nation" during one of our commercial blocks and in some other markets around the country running a new ad which includes me! we're going to just show you that. >> when the president was elected he talked about hope and change. whatever happened to hope and change? now it seems he's just coming right out of the box with these old-fashioned negative ads. >> by starting negative, by going extremely tough and extremely hard, looking conventional and frankly running ads that are inaccurate. >> barack obama's campaign has more negative ads against this republican nominee in 2012 than ever have been run in the history of the world. >> whatever happened to hope and change? >> i'm mitt romney and i approve this message. >> schieffer: (laughs) i'm running this not to give circulation to it but just state that obviously i have no connection with the romney campaign. this was done without our

permission. it comes as a total surprise to me and that is that. but that is... that's where we are in politics. frank rich... >> i hope you get residuals. (laughter) >> schieffer: i'll get some blowback, i'll tell you that for sure. frank rich, glad to have you on the broadcast. how big a deal is this bain capital stuff? is this election still about the economy or is this the question that the obama campaign is raising about mitt romney. >> obviously the economy is very important to the election and for previous reasons... reasons the previous panel just said. a lot of americans don't really know him. they don't know his biography and bain is the biggest part of

it. he's running on a mr. fix-it. he was obviously governor of massachusetts but he doesn't want to talk about that because of obamacare being inspired by his own health care plan. the olympics is small potatoes. so what have we got to run on? it's this and so of course it's going to keep going. what's shocking, i think, is not the individual answers to any particular questions but the fact that this was first brought up in a very tough campaign in 1994 against ted kennedy in massachusetts and some of the ads that are rerun now are some orth some of the ads then and it's almost two decades later, we can't answer these questions? you know, i think if you took his interviews over the past couple days that he did with all the networks to explain why he was c.e.o. but he wasn't really add bain, that he got a six-figure income but it was a different entity, i think that's a character issue. it goes beyond the specific outsourcing questions.

people don't know what he's talking about or who he is. >> schieffer: michael gerson, you wrote speeches for george bush before you became, i must say, a very influential columnist in. >> they may have been taken aback. this was a genuine... a presidential candidate, the possibility of committing a felon. i think involved in three presidential campaigns, that's not politics as usual. i think it's a serious challenge. i think this is an obama campaign that tends to not just criticize but to vilify. this week they were really a combination of huey long and michael corleone. i think the romney campaign has had a tough time responding to this. does it work? i don't think it changes the fundamental dynamic of the campaign which is both stable

and very close. but it's certainly changed the narrative and dialogue this week away from a very bad jobs report. >> schieffer: john dicker son, sum it up for us. >> as frank said, romney's argument is "i'm a fix-it man." the obama argument is "maybe, he uses bad parts, though." so when t obama campaign hasn't proved any decision mitt romney made led to outsourcing. but they've tied him down for several days on this question. any day the conversation is about outsourcing mitt romney loses and the ad you started this segment talking about is their response which is isn't this disappointing for the candidate of hope and change? will people care about the nicetys of politics? maybe not. but what what they're trying to tie that toe is aren't these attacks disappointments and doesn't that match your larger disappointment with this president? the question one advisor said to me is not are you better off but did you think you'd be better off and if you don't think so aren't you disappointed in barack obama?

that's what they're trying to get. >> schieffer: not to dwell on this, but you're talking about the ad they put me in. i... i... that was a question that i posed to david axelrod for the president's campaign manager. i wasn't stating something there. i was asking somebody else a question. but, norah, do... do the obama people think this is working? >> they do. they do think it's working and they heavily tested this new ad, the music playing at the top of the show, they said this works. this is not just an effort to disqualify mitt romney. this is an effort to destroy him. early nonthis campaign. the obama campaign has spent $100 million in advertising so far. $25 million of that was positive ads, about another $25 million was comparative ads. comparative/negative, you can call it what you want but a majority of... 50 million plus has been spent on this bain message. so they are trying to... they've got... if this were the early rounds of a boxing match, romney

is on the ropes and obama's throwing all the punches. and any time-- even as romney says-- you're defending yourself you're losing. so instead of... you know, the economy in the last couple weeks has been serving up softballs. mitt romney's not even at the plate! he's... you've got the third straight lackluster jobs report, you've got the c.b.o. this week saying that for the fourth straight year we'll have trillion dollar deficits. and the romney campaign's not talking about that. the romney campaign is largely putting an ad responding on these bain attacks and so they've lost the messaging in these past couple weeks. >> schieffer: frank rich. does president obama have to do more than that, though? can we win just by trying to make it a referendum on mitt romney while the romney people, of course, are trying to make it a referendum on barack obama. i keep looking for both of them to come up with some more things about what they are going to do, not what's wrong with the other guy. am i just a hopeless romantic? >> bob, you may have to make

another ad pleading for that. (laughter) but obviously both candidates have to step forward with a positive program and presumably will and it will coalesce around their acceptance speeches. but just to go back a second to michael gerson's characterizing what is being done by the president as michael corleone tactics. that's exactly the tactics his former boss used or people around him in swift boating john kerry. so this is nothing new. and for all the talk about obama and hope and change in the last campaign, the truth is he ran negative ads then. remember that one where he presented a dotering john mccain not knowing how many houses he had? so it's not as if he ran as mother teresa entirely in 2008. you have to mix it up. >> well, i do remember the inaugural address, obama's inaugural address where he said "we need to lay aside childish things." this now seems like a campaign run by a nasty 13-year-old. this is a very, very different

from... you know, it's the kind of thing that gets snickers in a campaign war room but i think there could be a reaction against this in the american public. the i don't think there are a lot of americans out there saying "you know what american politics needs? it needs more juvenile viciousness." >> michael, this isn't little league,. >> schieffer: the gong has rung here. i'm terribly sorry, we need to come back with this week's google hangout.

>> schieffer: this week's "face the nation" google hangout was all about women voters. norah o'donnell hosted. moore from? >> thanks, bob. both sides working hard to attract women voters and our panelists from this week's hangout totally agree. >> i would say independent and suburban women particularly are looking at both parties. who can stimulate the economy? >> people are going to dig frt and ask very specific questions. how do you feel about the violence against women act? how do you feel about the paycheck fairness act? how do you people... equal pay

for equal work. >> it's very puzzling for me that then you have all of these republicans across the board in all these different states talking about social issues and when, in fact, that gives key to the whole issue of that there is a republican war on women. >> do you want to take a whack that the? >> women feel there's underemployment and that feeling that this economy is not as strong as it could be because of this president directly falls at the feet of the president's policies, positions, and that's the deciding factor when they're in the voting booth. >> anne romney says she hopes her husband chooses a female vice president. i guess the first question is if mitt romney doesn't choose a woman what are people going say in that he doesn't listen to his wife? >> it's not just because there's a woman on a ticket that women are going to vote for that woman. it's about policies that those candidates are standing by. >> schieffer: and norah o'donnell, thank you for that. we will be back in a moment.

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>> schieffer: well, that is it for us today and we'll be right here next week. we hope you open join us on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org