>> schieffer: today on "face the nation," it's all about the battleground states, and the obama campaign likes the numbers they're seeing. new polls show the president leading now in ohio, florida, and pennsylvania, and dead even in virginia. but then, there are those other numbers. unemployment ticked up again, and that brought mitt romney to the camp. >> we just got a new number from the unemployment report, and it's another hammer blow to the struggling middle class families of america. >> schieffer: the president had his own thought about what was bad for the middle class-- the romney economic plan. >> under my opponent's plan, who do you think gets the bill for the $250,000 tax cut? you do. >> schieffer: back and forth

it went, but with the nation now so polarized that only 5% of the electorate is undecided, and 11 battleground states could decide the election, today we'll check in with politicians in fowler of them. virginia republican governor bob mcdonnell. >> in the united states of america needs virginia to go romney red this november. ( applause ). >> schieffer: florida republican congressman mario diaz-balart. , and former democratic governors ted strickland of ohio and ed rendell of pennsylvania. for analysis, we'll hear from michael crowley of "time" magazine, bloomberg white house correspondent julianna goldman, and our own jan crawford and nancy cordes. we'll close with a rare interview with sandra day o'connor. long retired from the supreme court but still making a difference because this is "face the nation."

captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: and good morning again. well, it's coming down to 11 states that are now basically ground zero for the candidates-- florida, north carolina, virginia, pennsylvania, new hampshire, wisconsin, ohio, iowa, colorado, nevada and new mexico. the nation is so polarized now, that the undecided votes in these states represent about 5%, and that is consistent with the rest of the country. 39 states lean so heavily to one candidate or another, both candidates are focusing their efforts now on those 11 states. so to give us an update on what's going on out there in some of these key battle grounds we're joined by two republicans, virginia governor bob mcdonnell. he's in richmond. and florida congressman mario

diaz-balart. he is in miami. on the democratic side, former pennsylvania governor, ed rendell, who has a new book out called "a nation of with uses." and here in the studio, the former governor of ohio, ted strickland. governor mcdonnell, i want to start with you, because i think both sides in this campaign, strategists for both of these campaigns have told me that virginia may well be the closest of all. it may turn out to be the one that decides who's going to win this election. so let me just ask you, where do you think the race is now in virginia? >> bob, i think it's probably a dead heat right now, but that's a long way mitt romney's come in the last four months when he was down by eight points. but since he captured the nomination and the grass roots has organized on the ground, the enthusiasm gap clearly on the republican side. but i think most importantly, while it's a dead heat right now, the momentum is going to continue to go for mitt romney

because people are realizing this is a very serious election. it's about jobs and the economy. it's about debt and deficits. it's about who's got the vision and the leadership for the future of america. and when your unemployment rate is 4.-- or 8.8% for more than 42 months and you added $5 trillion to the national debt, and you have no plan on energy, that doesn't work well for the independent voters in virginia. and i think virginia goes for romney. i think it will be close and competitive, but mitt romney has want best ideas for the citizens of virginia. >> schieffer: i think in fact the unemployment is 8.2, if i'm correct in the latest numbers that are out. >> it's 8.3 but it's been over 8 for 41 points. >> schieffer: i got you. let me go to you, governor strickland. you have been pounding mitt romney for not releasing his tax returns and you have repeated what harry reid said, that mitt romney may have paid no tax in

all of-- in some of those years. this morning, the chairman of the republican party said i think over on fox, that-- that harry reid is a dirty liar. and i have to say, he has shown nothing, no evidence to substantiate that charge. he just says he heard it from somebody. do you have any proof that mitt romney paid no taxes in some years? >> no, but mr. romney could give us the proof that he has paid taxes consistently. the fact is, bob, mitt romney wants the american people to trust him with the presidency, but he won't trust us with his tax returns. all he has to do is release his tax returns. the question that i think is this-- why is mitt romney refusing to give us his tax return? >> schieffer: well, you know, i take your point, governor, but isn't this kind of like joe mccarthy back in the era when he said, "i have here in my hand the name of 400 people in the

state department who are communist?" it updat it turned out he didn'd he said the way to prove that they're not is for them to come forward here. asking somebody to come forward to-- just because there's been an unsubstantiated charge, that's a little thin to me. >> that's not reason, bob. he should come forth with his tax return, not because there's been a charge. because the american people deserve to know what is in his tax returns. his father, as we all know-- >> schieffer: so you're saying maybe that's not true that he hasn't paid any taxes but you have said he didn't. >> "assignment america" not accuse him of anything, except what he is doing invites speculation, quite frankly. the people want to know why he has his tax return. bob, he gave them to john mccain for i think 23 years. why is he now, since he's seeking the presidency, saying to the american people, "you don't deserve to see my tax

returns? that's the legitimate question in the mind-- >> schieffer: let me go back to governor mcdonnell. do you think he could end this all by just putting his returns out, governor? >> you know, this is a reckless and slanderous charge by harry reid. this is a guy who hasn't released his own returns and for three years can't get the budget passepassed in the united states senate. you know, bob, people don't care about mitt romney's tax returns. they care about their own tax returns and the taxes that are going to be increased under president barack obama where nearly a million small business people are getting a whopping tax increase. that's the issue in this race. this is a more change the situation, hide the bald, where they don't want to focus on jobs and the economy and spending and debt and deficit and energy because their record is so bad, and of course they're trying to change the subject to tax returns. you know what we know about his tax return? he paid his taxes. he's a very generous man, and he made a lot of money because he's successful. why don't we start to talk about the things that are important that people are going to vote

about, jobs and spending. >> schieffer: how about that, ed rendell, why not? >> of course he should release his tax returns. we all do it. it's become commonplace in american politics and as ted was about to say, governor romney's father sort of set the tone by releasing 25 years of his tax returns. it's a basic elemental thing we do. i agree with governor mcdonnell. it's not a central issue, but people want to know if american politicians pay their taxes fairly like everybody else. and governor romney could absolutely do away with this issue. we all do it in virtually every election in america. so just, mitt, go ahead and do it. >> schieffer: how is the race now up in pennsylvania, governor? you're a democrat, but they it's obama people tell me they're not advertising in pennsylvania right now. does that mean that you all think you've got a lock on this thing? >> well, there are two polls out that show it's 11 points, but i don't believe those polls. and, bob, let me say the figure

you gave about only 5% of the american public being undecided, i'm sure they told the pollsters that, but that's not a given. what happens post-labor day is people start paying more attention to the campaign. we've got the convention speeches. we've got the three debates. a lot of those so-called firmly decided voters can still shift. the polls show president obama leading in pennsylvania. that's what he won by in '08. i don't believe that. we have a very serious problem with a bad voter i.d. law if the courts don't throw it out could cost us 100,000 votes. this isn't over in pennsylvania and if you're a supporter of the president don't think for a long shot it's over. >> schieffer: let me go to florida, congressman diaz-balart. first give us the situation down there. and, also, what about this whole deal with the tax returns? is this an issue down there? should governor romney release his returns?

>> bob, he's released his return. he's more than complied with the law. he's done more than harry reid has done to this day. let's talk about the real situation in florida a couple of numbers that matter. gas is about twice as expensive saz it was before president obama swore in. president obama's health care law raided medicare to the tune of $500 million to create a new program. medicare, by the way, coordination to the medicare acuaries, is about to go bankrupt within a decade. the deficit has been know-- even though he said he would cut it in half in his first term, he hasn't done so. we already talked about the situation of the debt. 42 months of 8% unemployment. i believe it's the longest record of 8% and above since those numbers have been kept. here's the irony-- the president of the united states has been in office for three and a half years and he refuses to talk about anything that he's done. why? because unfortunately what he's

done has been disastrous for the employees, for people trying to get jobs, for middle america, for middle-income america. so every time that the president speaks or some of his surrogates, they try to talk about anything except the real situation, and right now, people can't get jobs. millions of americans are either underemployed or unemployed. that's the real issue, bob. and it's really sad that the president of the united states, the most important elected official, in this country, refuses to talk about issues that are important because he's scared to talk about his real record, which has been dismal for the economy-- >> bob, that's not true. >> schieffer: what? >> the president has talked about the fact that we've created four and a half million private sector jobs in the last 29 months, 29 straight months of gains. he talks about the auto bailout, which governor romney opposed, which has been usually successful. he talks about the fact we created half a million new manufacturing jobs, 25,000 new manufacturing jobs just in july alone. the president could do much more. he's cut small business taxes 18

times. he could do much more if the republican congress agreed to pass things in the jobs act that the president proposed last october, like tax incentives for small businesses that create jobs, infrastructure-- >> bob, if i may. >> but the republicans won't do that. >> schieffer: let the congressman back in. >> if i may, bob. where are those jobs? unemployment is above 8%. it is true. it is true that unemployment has been above 8% for 42 months. it is true that it's been 120 days since he's even met with his own economic council. here's a president who, again, the economy is in shambles. where people cannot find jobs. and yet he keeps saying, as the governor has just said, hey, things are great. the economy is-- >> he didn't say things are great. >> we're doing, really, really well. >> don't interrupt me. >> schieffer: i think he isn't, congressman. he's saying we need to do a lot better. let's move on. governor strickland, you say this may have something to do

with the impression these candidates are making and in the end, it may be that. tell me what you were talking about. >> well, i think people are coming to see mr. romney, governor romney, as a person who has been born into and lived in privilege, has made a lot of money by closing factories, and laying off workers, and taking away pensions and benefits, sending jobs overseas,menting tax-- tax reform that will benefit himself to the detriment of the working middle class in this country. i think they're seeing mitt romney as someone who's not on their side, and i think they're increasingly seeing the president as someone who is fighting for them. in ohio, our unemployment is now 7.2%, lower than the national average. we have created 45,000 new manufacturing jobs since 2010. and that's due in large part to the fact that the auto rescue has helped ohio and michigan and pennsylvania and indiana and so

many other states. one in eight jobs in ohio is related to the auto industry. and ohioans understand that. we are a commonsense state, and we're commonsense people, and we understand that the president is on the side of the working middle class, and mitt romney is for the 1%. >> schieffer: well, let me just ask the governor mcdonnell about that. because, you know, some people within the republican party are saying that maybe governor romney made a mistake by not running more positive ads in the beginning and sort of telling voters who he was because he faced this onslaught of negative ads during the republican primary, and then again when the primaries were over, he got it from the obama people. do you think he should have kind of given people an idea to get to know him better with a series of more positive ads in the beginning. there's no question, this month, polls show that his positives are going down, and his

negatives are going up. >> well, bob, this is a serious election. it's not about personality. it's not about rhetoric. it's about results. and mitt romney isn't interested necessarily, in being the most popular. he wants to be the most effective president. today is the one-year anniversary since the credit of the united states of america was downgraded by standard & poors. gas prices doubled. unemployment over 8%. the largest increase in debt in american history. and we're concerned about who's the most popular. this is-- >> schieffer: well, governor, the larger the issue. >> schieffer: excuse me, governor. can you get elected without being the most popular? >> but it's not about personalities. and that's what the president is trying to make this about. that message of hope and change and all that popularity four years ago, it's now a record and a campaign of fear and division. and mario is exactly right-- avoiding the issues. we're in serious trouble in america.

we're in great debt. we have no energy plan, and this president is talking about tax returns and health care. he just doesn't get it. so he came to virginia and told people that they didn't build it, that somebody else made it happen-- >> schieffer: we'll talk about that some more. we've got to take a break for a commercial here. in a minute. you are a business p monarch of marketing analysis. with the ability to improve roi through seo all by cob. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. i'm going b-i-g. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. go national. go like a pro. [ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. one is for a clean, wedomestic energy future that puts us in control.

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romney's vision for the middle class that he outlined this week on jobs and deficit reduction and small business promotion and energy is the way to go. i'll-- i'll wait to hear. and as soon as i find out, i'll let you know, bob. >> schieffer: all right. congressman diaz-balart, do you know and have you heard whether it's governor mcdonnell? >> i'll tell you what, governor mcdonnell would be a great vice president but i have not heard. i know mitt romney is seriously looking at who would be the right person who could step in. that's who he will choose. on your show, you have one of those that would be a great vice presidential candidate. but i really have no yet. >> schieffer: but what about marco rubio, who is from your statement? would he be better? >> bob,s i am a little biased. i think marco rubio would be a spectacular candidate for vice president. i think he would energize the country. i think he has a great story. he's bright. he's more articulate. he's a lot more experienced than mr. romney was when he got elected.

i know mitt romney is going to make the right choice. >> schieffer: governor rendell, just as an outside observer, who do you think he's going to pick and why? >> i just want to go on record, i'm for michele bachmann for vice president. i want everyone to be clear about that. i don't know, but i do think governor romney has chosen the right criteria. he is going to pick somebody who he believes can be president. governor mcdonnell will fit that bill. i think bob is right. people don't vote for vice president, although, let me say i believe america has a spectacular vice president who has done just an amazing job, and i think that weighs on president obama's side. >> schieffer: governor strict land, of course, rob portman is the senator from your state. he's a republican. would he be a good running mate? >> probably. he's a very conservative fella, but he has very good manners, bomb. he's not a bomb thrower. he doesn't use over-heated

rhetoric. but rob portman has a couple things against him. he was george bush's trade representative and the outsourcing of jobs and our trade policies is a big deal in expochment he was the budget director at a time when we were careening towards the conditions that led to this recession. i think he probably would be one of the better choices. that governor romney could make. but i'm not sure he will be chosen. i think it's going to be governor pawlenty. this is my personal guess for a the love reasons. number one, former governor pawlenty has a connection to the evangelical community, which i think is important for mr. romney. >> schieffer: do you think it would make a difference in your state of ohio if he picked rob portman? would that mean that he carried ohio probably? >> i agree with the others on this show. i think the vice presidential candidate makes little or no difference in the outcome because people are going to be focusing on barack obama and mitt romney and they'll choose between those two people.

>> schieffer: you know, i want to ask you all about the tenor of this campaign. it seems to me that it is more negative than any campaign i can remember, and i can remember a few. do you all-- i mean, i see that president obama, the enthuseiam for him is not nearly as high as it wasleit was the last time ar. but i also see that governor romney's negatives continue to go up. do you think that is because of the kind of campaigns we're running now? i mean, because what kind of concerns me just stepping back and looking at it, we may be destroying the credibility of everybody in politics. what do you think about that, governor rendell? >> yeah, i think you're dead right, bob. i think the problem is one of these two men is going to be president of the united states, and if the campaign continues careening down this track that it's on, that person is going to have a very difficult time trying to lead and bring this country together to face the challenges, and they are going to come on swift and strong the

challenges that the country faces. hopefully, the debates and other things will raise the level of the campaign. i believe we basically have two good men running, and i believe they should say the things that they've done and they're proud of and the things that they want to do. and hopefully the debates will frame those issues. >> schieffer: what about you, congressman? >> i agree. i think the campaign has gotten very aggressive. and i think part of that you just mentioned that governor romney's numbers, his negatives having up. they've gone up balls of the very, very aggressive negative campaignincampaigning from prest obama. and, again, unfortunately, we're not hearing a lot from the president as to what he wants to do if he got elected for another four years to reverse the cycle that he has taken our country, to reverse the over 8% unemployment for 42 months, to reverse the increased deficit and debt, to lower gasoline prices. and what's he going to do when in less than a decade, when medicare is bankrupt?

part of that because he took half a trillion dollars out of it. what's he going to do to make sure we have medicare for future generations? if he starts talking about those things and stops bashing his opponent i think it would be good not only for the country but i think actually it would probably help him. i think right now people are waiting for leadership. they're seeing that, i think, from the governor. all they're seeing from the president is negative, nasty campaigns. >> schieffer: governor mcdonnell? >> i think there's brought agreement that we need more civility in politics. we need long leadership to bring people together, to unify and not divide people along class, class lines, which i think the president has done. i think he had a remarkable opportunity a couple years ago and has largely blown it. and i think this is the bottom line in the campaign is the president's a good man. he's a good family man, but his policies just haven't worked, and now it's time for a change. it's time for a new, strong leader. somebody with the reagan-romney optimism about the future of america that celebrates success and gets everybody involved with

the restoration of the american dream. i think romney is the guy to bring people together. >> schieffer: 20 seconds, governor strictland. >> i think the country is polarized and i think the issues are very serious. it will come down to this, bob-- which candidate is viewed as being on the side of the working middle class, and i think that's president. >> schieffer: gentlemen, i want to thank all of you for a very lively and fun and i must say a thoughtful discussion this morning. thank you all. we'll be right back with some thoughts of my own here in a minute. it's something you're born with. and lives inside you. inspires the things you choose to do.

things that may not always change the world in a big way. when technology works for you. to do the things that matter. to dream. to learn. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter.

we didn't have to see and hear all the tv ads that clogged the scenes in the battleground states. our good luck finally ran out. since virginia has become a key battleground, candidates had to advertise on washington tv to reach voters in northern virginia, so battleground states now we can truly feel your pain. no wonder you look shellshocked like someone who had his head stuck in a bucket while someone else pounded on it with a shovel. we're bombarded by these things every waking moment, and it doesn't stop there. i've seen so many, i dreamed about one the other night. i've seen so many, i can't remember who said what about who. but make no mistake-- these campaign commercials make a deeper impression on us and reach more of us than we may realize. this was told to me as true-- a campaign operative saw the president in an ad and asked his four-year-old son, who is that?

that's barack obama said the child. and what does he do, sailed the father? and without missing a beat the four-year-old applied, he approves this message. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs.

a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. >> schieffer: michael crowley of "time," julianna goldman of bloomberg, our own jan crawford and nancy cordes and a rare interview with former supreme court justice sandra day o'connor. stay with us. i got the chance to start my own business. i know what it's like to hire people and to make ends meet. from those experiences, i had the chance of running the olympics. the games were in real trouble. there'd been way too much spending.

and in massachusetts i found a budget that was badly out of balance. our legislature was 85% democrat. and every one of the four years i was governor, we balanced the budget. i want to use those experiences to help americans have a better future. we believe in our future. we believe in ourselves. we believe the greatest days of america are ahead. i'm mitt romney and i approve this message. >> schieffer: welcome back to

"face the nation." joining us now michael crowley of "time" magazine. he wrote the cover story this week on karl rove and the role of money in the campaign. julianna goldman is the white house correspondent for bloomberg news. and our own jan crawford who covers the romney campaign and nancy cordes who is now covering the obama campaign. welcome to all of you. i just noticed in the "washington post" this morning, dan ball said the best that you can say about how mitt romney fared in july is that he survived, but when you look at these economic numbers, i think you might say the same thing about barack obama. julianna, where is this race now? what does the white house think about it? where do they go from here? >> i think you look at the state of the race and the state of the economy, and you talk about the jobs report on friday and it is a mixed bag.

the unemployment rate kicked up 1%, but also the markets read it positively because there were more jobs created last month than expected. so for the president right now, the challenge is things just can't get worse. the public's opinion on the economy has remained pretty much consistent, and so what the white house, what the obama campaign is looking at right now is for voters to head into this election saying, "look the economy is not where i want it to be, but mitt romney would make worse." >> schieffer: so, jan, where do you think the romney information think they are? obviously, this trip did not come out quite the way that they thought. >> well, no, they go over there and he offends the brits by questioning whether they're ready for the olympics. that's that's not, you know, kind of hard to do get off on the wrong foot on fleet street and offend the palestinians by suggesting israel is economically for their culture. i think the campaign doesn't see it as a disaster and they

believe it didn't hurt him. and the economy-- this vase about the economy, and the clouds aren't disbursing on the economy. they see signs ahead that suggest real problems for the president and that will continue to be the message. but you're going to hear other things from the romney campaign going forward. they're also going to be stressing these themes that president obama was elected for hope and change. but now he's changing the country in a fundamental way for the worst, in a way that americans don't recognize. they're going to really hit him hard on relaxing some of the welfare reform act provisions passed by bipartisan consensus to give states more authority to loosen some of the work requirements in the welfare reform bill, arguing, again, president obama is the one for big government, more reliance on government. and that's something the american people don't want. >> schieffer: i want to show you-- put some numbers here on the screen. there's a new pew research study out. it shows that mitt romney's image is really taking a beating. after the primaries ended, he had an unfavorable rating of

55%. now when the primaries were over, he improve improved that . but in the last month, it's gone back up five points. it is now 52% of registered voters view imunfavorably. 37% view him favorably. that's a difference of 15 points, whereas last month it was just six points. it is also the same, i must add, not as bad, for barack obama. but his negatives are going up, certainly far beyond where they were the last time. i think-- you know, i was talking to david axelrod the other day, obama's campaign manager, and he said, "you know, generally, people-- we don't elect people just because they're likable. he said you really ought not to elect somebody just because they're the most likable. but he said, think back to when we elected the candidate who was the most unlikable. and i think you have to go back to richard nixon to say when

that's happened. is this a problem for romney, jan? >> i don't think so. i mean he's been outspent hugely in these battleground states because he doesn't have the kind of money right now that the obama campaign has. he's been outspent five to one, eight to one in some of the battleground states. >> schieffer: it's no question the negative ads that the obama people ran against him are working to some extent. >> starting to have an impact, but they believe if you look at the numbers, the race is static, it's still in a dead heat head to head. it's not that bad, because they're going to roll out starting with the convention a lot more positive ads about romney, his background, his biography, and they have the convention where they think things are really going to kick off and then they can tap into all the money you've been talking about. >> schieffer: nancy, the enthusiasm for president obama, any way you cut it with any group is not the way it was last time out. >> it isn't, but i will say that at obama headquarters, when i was talking to them this week, they were mystified by why this romney approach that they're

taking now to sort of roll out his bio, talk about him. you see ads now where he's driving a car and talk about running the olympics. they really don't understand why he didn't do that a couple months ago. and it really gave them the opportunity to define him on their terms about bain, about outsourcing, at a time when he was really vulnerable. it's almost as if he thought that he could run solely happiering away at the president, not defining himself in positive terms. and i think even the romney campaign would admit they probably should have embarked on this plan a little sooner. >> schieffer: michael, you wrote i thought a really very good piece if i may say so in "time" about the race, the impact of super pac that karl rove is playing, the role big money is playing. this one is really different, isn't it, in time around? >> yeah, the amount of outside money in this campaign, all the campaign spending at every level, is going to set reader, but particularly the outside groups. the key thing for people to understand, for a variety of

reasons, republicans are going to have a substantial spending advantage on the outside money, much of which won't be disclosed. it's not very clearly documented. when it is disclosed, a lot of it really won't come out until the very last days of the election. and although the obama campaign, the official campaign will probably raise and spend more than the official romney campaign, when you count in all the outside groups on both sides, republicans will probably have more money to spend. and a lot of that has to do with karl rove. i think a lot of democrats hoped that they were done with karl rove at the end of the bush administration. he is back, and in full stride, and has helped to engineer kind of a network of republican groups that can coordinate with one another, although not the romney campaign-- and may send $600 million. one last key point-- they're going to put a lot of money into the fight for congress, bob. we spend a lot of time talking about the white house race. control of congress will be essential. will we have more deadlock or a president who can push through an ambitious agenda? and i think particularly on the congressional fights in the senate battle, in particular, rove and the republicans will have more money to spend.

>> schieffer: julianna what can we expect now from the campaign, the obama campaign? >> you just look at the front page of the "new york times," and the money race is huge. $400 million spent since the beginning of last year through june, $tonight million in the month of june alone. and that's because they believe now is the time to get the bang for the buck on their money to define the race on their terms, to define mitt romney on their terms, and they think it has paid off, that they've turned him into this caricature of the wealthy, out-of-touch politician. the question is, the lasting effect on that as romney heads into a period where he's going to be able to hit the reset with his vice presidential pick, with the convention, and then heading into the debates. >> and that's an expensive strategy that takes a lot of money, and the obama campaign apparatus is even bigger this time than it was four years ago. so they've acknowledged that the president is going to to be hitting those fund raisers all the way through until election day. and every time he has to go to california or new york to raise money, it takes him out of those

battleground states but they say this is the only way they can do it if they want to remain at least competitive with the money coming in from republicans-- >> tomorrow he'll be-- >> schieffer: let me take a break right here. it's something you're born with. and lives inside you. inspires the things you choose to do. things that may not always change the world in a big way. but can change it in a million little ways. you do what you do... because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology. we believe in the power of people when technology works for you.

to do the things that matter. to dream. to learn. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter. the romney people confided in you who they're going-- >> i have breaking news for you bob. we're going to say right here on "face the nation." is talking to one of the senior advisers before the show, and he said look i don't even know when it's going to be. i can't plan my own schedule. of course i can't tell you. obviously we expect it's going to be some time in the next two weeks, get through the olympics and have an announcement. they're starting a bus tour next saturday, and that will roll through several of these key states finishing up in florida and ohio, middle of week after next. but what they're look at right now, what romney has always said he wants is someone who can

govern, someone who can be president. he is getting a lot of pressure from outside the campaign, from the base, from the conservatives to go bold, pick someone who will energize the base to beat president obama. so that was a lot of suggestion to go for someone like congressman paul ryan, governor bobby jindal. and ryan, of course, would be, as someone we talked about here, someone who talks very powerfully about these themes that the romney campaign is going to be hitting, the big government of the obama administration. america going in a different direction. but the signals i'm picking up is that romney is going to go for competence and somebody hocan govern and go safe. as you know, vice presidential nominees make a big deal when they're anouned at the convention and the only other time they make news is when they make a mistake. >> schieffer: i'm betting it will noting sarah palin. >> i think that might be a pretty good bet. >> isn't it fun how we keep hearing, it has to be someone prepared, someone who has to step into the job. it tells you something about the

experience from 2008. that should be taken for granted. >> schieffer: what did the white house people think about romney's trip? the white house people didn't necessarily need to say anything about romney's trip because you heard it from the mayor of london, the prime minister of the u.k., and the palestinians as well. look, you heard robert gibbses say it was an embarrassing disaster. i think the white house thought that the bafers set pretty low for mitt romney. four years ago when we went over with then-senator obama, the biggest hurdles were logistical. it's interesting to contrast now to see some of the images that were from four years ago, the president shooting hoops with the troops, in a helicopter petraeus, giving that speech in berlin. and he had-- in terms of the structure of the campaign, he had a whole host of campaign advisers, foreign policy advisers, susan rice, dennis ross, who were there greasing reporters, and they're on the ground in case something went wrong. and romney did not have it. and it shows part of the

problems and difficulties his campaign is having in getting up and running. >> schieffer: well, i mean, i think that's a very good point because romney went with just basically a skeleton staff. they augmented it even after he got there and after he got into trouble with all the olympics. you kind of wonder did they really understand what they were getting into. >> and particularly at a time when romney was already having trouble defining himself, he comes away from this, particularly, with the olympics remark, looking like he's out of touch, and he just doesn't get it. one of the thresholds for him here was to be able to go and show he could be a leader on the world stage. that's something that obama was able to do four years ago. and the gaffes really overshadowed that for romney. >> incidentally, i'm not sure romney's entire staff was so thrilled with the trip in the first place. i think there was some internal discussion about that and there may be some recrimination. >> that's a good point, though. it got him off message. he had a laser-like focus on the economy so why go to the olympics and these other countries? >> but ultimately with this

trip, everybody-- the number one issue in this election is the economy. and voters aren't going to look back on this trip and say, "oh, mitt romney made these gaffes. he didn't do as well as he was expected and this is how he's going to turn the economy around." >> probably not decisive but you do have to pass the commandener chief test. bob, when you look at the numbers historically, it's been a long time since the democrats had the advantage on foreign policy the way obama does on romney now. noose pretty significant. and i think romney has to do more work. >> he had an opportunity to lay out his foreign policy agenda, and to give a sense of what scizz philosophy is, and he really didn't do that. >> schieffer: all right, well, thank you, all. coming up next, we have a little interview with former supreme court justice sandra day o'connor. she doesn't do interviews very often so we were happy to get to talk with her. stay with us.

>> schieffer: supreme court justices, current and former, rarely give interviews so when sandra day o'connor agreed to talk to us, we caught up with her on capitol hill. she had just finished testifying

before the judiciary committee on a subject of great importance to her-- teaching civics-- or i should say, the lack of teaching civics -- in our schools. madam justice, it is really an honor to have you. thank you. i want to talk to you about this project that you devote so much of your time to, civics. >> yes. >> schieffer: you're basically trying to help young people learn about the government. i was stunned to find out that so many states now, which were no longer take civics courses. >> well, that was my concern. now, when i went to school, i grew up on a remote ranch. my parents had to send me away to el paso to live with grandparents to go to school. and i had civics every year. i got bored to tears with learning about sam houston and all those texans, you know. enough was enough. but we had a lot of sisks. and today, half the states no longer make civics a requirement

for young people. >> schieffer: well, maybe-- >> to get out of high school. i mean, that's pretty scary. >> schieffer: maybe that's one reason some surveys show a third of americans cannot name the three branches of government. >> that's right. that's what the statistics show, which is appalling. we have a lot of newcomers to the country, so maybe they don't. if they become citizens, they have to learn everything. in fact, most of our native-born americans can't answer all the questions that we require of people from other countries who are becoming citizens. that's a hard test. >> schieffer: so this project that you have launched it's online. >> yes. >> schieffer: it provides lesson plans. it provides all assort o all so. >> and primarily games. that's what it consists of. young people spend on an army of 40 hours a week in front of a screen. it could be television and/or computer. but 40 hours a week. that's huge.

and i only need about an hour. >> schieffer: and how does one, if a teacher wants to get in on this, how do they do it? >> they go on a computer and dial in www.icivics.org-- little i civics, like ipad, ipod. we have instructions for teach fers they want to use it as a course. >> schieffer: i want to ask you a little bit, also, about the court today. there are some surveys that show respect or at least admiration from the court, about the court, for the court has dropped substantially. >> in the past, when the public is asked about the three branches of government, the unilateral branch has had the highest respect among the three, and now it's about the same for all, and it's all down. so that's a great disappointment to me to see.

>> schieffer: and a concern, i'm sure. >> yes, to me >> why do you think that is? >> i'm not sure. there's been some suggestion-- again by poll takers-- that trend down for the judicial branch began with the bush-gore decision. that was one that was widely talked about at the time as you know, and involved the public in a presidential election. and that could be something that triggered public reexamination. >> schieffer: do you think people thought it was too political or the court had become too political? is that-- >> i'm not sure. but i suppose that's part of it. yes. and, of course, any time you're deciding a case involving a presidential election, it's awfully close to politics. >> jan crawford, who you know, has reported in recent days a deep divide that has developed in the court between john

roberts, the chief justice; and the other conservatives. because he surprised them by changing his position, according to her reporting, to become the deciding vote on upholding the president's health care law. were you surprised at justice roberts? >> no, not really. i mean, i don't have any information about the initial tentative votes taken at the court conference. i have not pried into it. i have not asked to be informed. obviously, it was a close decision because at the end of the day, it was 5-4. so at the time of first discussion, it may well also have been a close decision. i expect it was. that was a hard case. >> schieffer: well, what do you think that that vote tells us about the court? does this mean that-- >> it tells us they don't always

agree, and that's what it should be. for goodness sake, that's why you have a court. you have nine members so it's uneven. you're not going to split evenly. if they all vote it can be decided 5-4. >> schieffer: do you think it means, though, that the court is shifting more to the center or is this just one vote on one issue? >> that is one important case in a political kind of a situation, and it came out the way it did. i don't think that indicates some trend on the part of the court one way or the other. >> schieffer: you don't see this as john roberts moving toward the center, becoming a liberal? >> i don't. i don't see tat all. i see it deciding a very sensitive case with political connotations. >> schieffer: can i ask you this-- how would you have voted on that case? >> i don't know. i wouldn't tell you that if i knew. i didn't read the briefs or hear the arguments. >> schieffer: you don't see

this as having any impact or read something into it. >> no. >> schieffer: justice scalia said stories like this are made up or given by people who violated a confidence. therefore, they are unreliable. >> well, i accept his statement. >> schieffer: would you agree with na? >> well, i just don't see how anybody would be in a position to know what was said. i don't, and i'm up there. i have an office. i'm close to them. >> schieffer: sure. >> i don't pry around and try to find out who said what when. >> schieffer: but, again, you do not see this as having an impact or changing the court-- the court's not changing in any way? >> i don't see-- this is one important case in a series of cases. >> schieffer: some say that george bush might have gotten off to a better start if the court, going back to bush v. gore, if the court had let the count continue, that he would have won without the court's decision, and many

questioned the legitimacy of his victory after that. now, you were the deciding vote in that case. >> i don't see how you can say anybody was the deciding vote. >> schieffer: well-- >> they all counted. >> schieffer: they all counted. >> yes. >> schieffer: you have no regrets. >> no, it was a tough deal in a closely fought election. and it's no fun to be part of a group of decision makers that has to decide which side the ball is going to fall on. >> schieffer: you were critical of the "citizens united" decision. >> i was. i descented >> do you think the coming of the super pacs has hurt our political system? >> it hasn't helped. put it that way. >> schieffer: it hasn't helped. >> no. >> schieffer: what do you think of the current state of the country? there's, obviously, a great divide in the country right now. do you think our political system is broken? >> no, it's not broken. but i hope we go beyond this and

move on to area where's we are in greater agreement than we have been on some issues. i hope that will be the case. >> schieffer: do you think the "citizens united" decision had something to do with the divide we are seeing right now? >> i don't know. i can't-- you're in a better position to evaluate it, perhaps, than i am. but i-- i hate to see us politically closely divided over some period of time. i don't think that helps the country. so, perhaps, we'll move on to a stage of fewer basic disagreements. >> schieffer: you and i are kind of in the same stage of life here. >> yes, getting older. >> schieffer: a lot of our contemporaries retired, and goo to do other things. you are still making a difference. what is your advice to people in our demographic group? >> if you feel like i do and want to be involved and not bored to tears stay busy and do

something worthwhile. we presumably have a little of life's experiences behind us, so maybe we can make a valid contribution. i hope so. and i encourage people who want to do it to stay involved. >> schieffer: well, you certainly are. that is for sure. madam justice, it's a pleasure to have you. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> schieffer: and we'll be back in a minute.

>> schieffer: well, that's all the time we have for today. we'll see you next week. we'll be right here, same time, same station, on "face the nation." thanks for watching. sñ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

next on "this week in defense news," the ceo of northrop grumman on the cts