>> dickerson: today op "face the nation." wrapped new cbs poll numbers show good news for donald trump and ben carson. but not so good for hillary clinton. >> i'm leading the pack i will tell you with the people, people are tired of incompetence. they're tired of people that don't get it done. >> dickerson: he's right about all that we'll tell you why with results from a new cbs news tracker poll of key primary states. we'll get trumps reaction and we'll also talk to the man hot on his heels. neurosurgeon ben carson. and hillary clinton's campaign does it need a resnoot we'll talk to president obama's former strategist and we'll have analysis on the political news of the week including joe biden's emotional struggle over his political future. it's all ahead on "face the nation."

captioning sponsored by cbs good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. labor day is behind us, football season started the second republican debate just three days away. so we have some brand new poll numbers this morning from our cbs news 2016 battleground tracker, we'll be tracking the candidates in the early primary states throughout the next few months. first the republican field in iowa. donald trump is at the top with 29% of likely g.o.p. voters. ben carson is not far behind at 25%. there's the rest of the pack all 14 of them. ted cruz has 10% support remaining candidates trail behind in single digits. in new hampshire, donald trump is way out in front with 40% of the vote. ben carson follows with 12% ohio governor john kasich at 9% and carly fiorina is at 8% the rest of the field follows mind

her. down in south carolina, donald trump is at the top of the field again with 36% support, web carson at 21%. the rest of the republican field follows way behind in single digits, the next closest candidate, ted cruz with just 6%. we'll have numbers for the democratic race in a few minutes. but begin with the leader donald trump who joins us by phone. mr. trump your numbers are on the rise but so, too are ben carson, our poll shows that a lot of people who are looking at you, ben carson is their second choice. so what is the one thing that you have got that would make you a better president than ben carson? >> well, i'm a deal maker. i'll make great deals for this country, ben can't do that ben's ac he's not a deal maker. and i'll make great deals for our country which is very important i see yesterday in iowa the place was going wild we had record crowds. and they want competence, they can't deal making they want to take back our jobs from china and japan and mexico and all of

these countries that are just ripping us up. i have been a world class businessman, according to everybody that talks about me in terms of the world of business. i make deals. i'll bring back jobs. i'll also bring back wealth to our country and i'll build up our military so that nobody is going to mess with us and i'll take care of our vets and do things such as that. but ben is not a deal maker at all. and i don't think would be very good -- i don't think that's in his ability at all. >> when we last talked you mentioned hedge fund managers were getting away with murder you mentioned that again yesterday. who else is getting away do you think with murder think economy? >> well, i just used that as the example because i know these guys they're all supporting jeb bush and hillary clinton. it's funny when i hear them talking we've got to stop this and this they don't mean it because they're totally controlled by hillary and jeb in

particular totally controlled by the hedge fund guys and the wall street guys. but hedge funds in particular. they pay very little tax that's going to end when i come out with my plan in about three weeks, could be sooner than that. we have an amazing tax plan, we'll reducing taxes for the middle class but for the hedge fund guys they're going to be paying up. >> anybody else have to worry about their snacks. >> think i just generally reduction. i want corporate reduction bring the money back into this country, we have two and a half trillion dollars john out of this country and the corporations rightfully don't bring it back because they have massive tax to pay we got to make it so they can bring it back. i'll be bringing it back, we'll have lot of money pouring into the united states if i get elected. we'll make it possible for them by lowering their tax rate. we're going to be lowering it for corporations because we want jobs. we can't jobs coming back into this country where you have all of this money, this vast wealth sitting outside of the country because rightfully if you were running the company, if i was

running the company, wouldn't bring it back in. we will bring back trillions of dollars into this country. >> i was thinking about you and ross perot recently another billionaire ceo candidate who didn't like to trade deals, that the country was engaged in. he used to talk about was ceo pay that it gotten too high now 350 times the average worker doing that bug you at all as you think about your tax plan and inequities in the economy? >> well, it does bug me. it's very hard if you have free enterprise system to do anything about that. the boards of companies are supposed to do it but i know companies very well. and the ceo puts in all his friends so you'll take a company like, i could say macy's or many others where they put in their friends as head of the company and they get whatever they want. because the friends love sitting on the board. so that's a system that we have and it's ashame and disgraceful and sometimes the boards rule but i would say it's probably less than 10%. you see these guys making these

enormous amounts of money it's a total and complete joke. >> dickerson: when you talk about the system and politicians what are running it poorly, have you thought about any kind of reform, agenda that would include the campaign finance system you've criticized that, but anything on that or on term limits or a balanced budget is there a reform agenda behind your candidacy? >> the biggest reformetent people in office. i mean that's to me the biggest reform we could make. if you put competent people in office, really competent people, we need the best. look at places like china they have superstars at their positions, they arrive there at different methods. they arrive by being smart. we arrive therefore, i don't know, neighborhood believe some of the people that we have in office then even harder to believe some of the people they appoint to represent us on trade and other things. the biggest reform we can make is to put really competent super competent people in office. and frankly that's what i'm trying to do i'm doing this i've been politician for three months. i'm average lot of fun. very gratified when i hear your

numbers that's really fantastic. i'm surprised in new hampshire because frankly ben carson is a very, very nice man. but we will -- this will not be a good situation because of the fact that he's not a dealer he's not a negotiator. and the president has to be -- we have to bring wealth back into our country. we're a country with 19 trillion in debt. we have 19 trillion. we have to get rid that have bring wealth back into our country. ben can't do that. >> dickerson: let me ask you a question, you've been politics for three weeks let's go back to your experience in the business world. i want to ask you about the comment that was quoted in rolling stone that you mentioned about carly fiorina think about in business context. rolling stone quoted you said look at that face, would anyone vote for that. can you imagine the face of our next president. she's a woman i'm not supposed to say bad thing but really folks, come on, are we serious? ask you a business question not a political correctness politics

question how would you expect the human resources department to handle that if an executive at your company was heard saying that about a woman employee? what would you -- >> first of all i was talking about per persona. she had tremendous bad luck, she been a bad job hewlett-packard was a disaster, the company she was at before hewlett-packard was a disaster. two disaster, now she's running for president but of course she lost in landslide to barbara boxer. you know, to be honest with you the problem we have we're so politically correct that we captain get out of our way. people make statements that all of a sudden the statements -- i'm only talking about her per zone. that she hasn't done a good job in, you could call it the private sector. the companies, take a look at the record look at the yale law school, top man at yale law school came out with a raging

report. she's one of the worst executives in his memory in history running the company. well, you know what, maybe she is isn't. but can we really take a chance. in my case, i made over $10 billion net, net net i've created a tremendous company. i have some of the greatest assets in the world and to be honest with you that's the kind of mindset -- i'm not saying that to brag i'm saying that's the mindset that our country needs. >> dickerson: mr. trump, unfortunately we're out of time thanks for being with us. >> thank you very much. dickerson: all right. take a closer look at the republican numbers in our cbs battleground tracker joining us now is cbs news elections director anthony salvanto. i want to go behind the horse race a little bit see what we can figure out about the country. what do republican voters want to see in a candidate? >> exactly what you just heard in that interview. they are buying donald trump's record. we asked what is the most

important thing you're looking for in a candidate. number one answers business and private sector experience. couple of things are striking about that first is, that the head of being a true conservative which tells you a little bit about maybe why some of trump's rivals messages aren't finding the mark. >> dickerson: because their message has been he's not a true conservative. >> they're challenging his conservative credentials, well, that's not quite so important here. >> dickerson: and who is the trump voter then that you found in these numbers? >> well, i think it's actually more of a coalition rather than one particular kind of voter it's interesting. about half of them are angry conservatives. what they're angry 'bout that the party has actually in their mind actually compromised too much so they want more form of conservative. there is another hat. these people are a little bit new tore the process, lot of them tell us they haven't voted in primaries before. for them that message of

economic populism, really seems to resonate. they tell us they wouldn't mind say raising taxes on wall street raising taxes on those hedge funds. and for them that economic message is important it's like what they're hearing is, he's saying i know the system is rigged. i know you can distant from the process but i can take add vac and i'll cut you in on the deal. >> dickerson: like what he had to say about the ceo pay. that's really interesting the point about angry conservatives those are the ones that felt betrayed by the conservative lawmakers who have not been true to their word yet rewarding trump because of his business experience. let me ask you question about immigration and those voters that coalition you talk about how important is that to that coalition? >> i think it's really important. one of the things that cuts across donald trump is this very strong view that illegal immigrants should be deported. that is a view that's actually to the right of lot of other republicans, to the right of of

course independence but one thing that also agree on maybe that's an issue that bridges the gap across republicans the way taxes used to be. the way did for democrats couple of years ago of course then very much like independent nationwide. >> dickerson: supporters are enthusiastic about donald trump they change the kind of way they think about attributes required for president. is that -- is there a ceiling on that for trump? where does he have room to grow and does he have room to grow? >> it's interesting. donald trump is almost no one's second choice. we ask people, who is your first choice then who is your second. donald trump that is great support of course in the first but not so much in the second that tells me that he's very much a known commodity. either like him and know him or they don't. ben carson is more of people's second choice. but having said that i'm not sure always matters whether or not he has a ceiling because

this is a fractured field. you can win if it stays fractured at 0 or 40% about where he is. >> the ben carson vote while i get your point about splitting things up. carson has -- wondering about room to grow. >> yeah. fact that he is in second place also lot of people's second choice dr. carson's support looks lot like donald trump's support which to say that it cuts across all the groups that we like to categorize. the tea party, evangelical, conservative moderate. he does well with all of them. >> dickerson: we'll talk to ben carson. anthony stay with us we'll talk to you about what you found among democrats. now turn to the other republican we've been talking about dr. ben carson he joins us from charleston. what do you make about your position in the polls? >> well, i'm glad to see that so many people are starting to

listen to what i'm saying. evaluating it on its merits as opposed to listening to what people have portrayed me as saying, make a big difference. >> dickerson: want to talk to you about what anthony and i were talking about what are the attributes that make a president. i'm not trying to create a fake fight but donald trump says that you have no energy, that he can make deals. what is your sense of that? is he right, are you too nice to be president? >> well, i don't think so. i don't think there's anything wrong with being nice but you have to recognize that my life is multi-faceted. growing up having multiple jobs, experiencing every level socioeconomic level in, spending 18 years on the board of kellogg. 16 years on the board of costco. enormous amount of experience.

chairman of the compensation committee for fortune 500 company. and in fact if you go back you look at the compensation of the top executives it was really very reasonable, nothing like what you were talking about in the previous segment. i have a lot of experience doing things. starting a national nonprofit nine out of ten which fail. ours has only not failed but working in all 50 states hat won major national awards that are only given to one nonprofit in the country a year. so it's ridiculous to think that the only thing that i can do is neurosurgery. i find it quite humorous when people say he's idiot savant they don't know what it takes to become a neurosurgeon. >> you wrote about importance of humility. and how important that has been in your life why is it important for a president to have humility? >> because you need to be able to listen.

one of the things that i have discovered throughout the many things that i've been involved in is that we have some incredibly talented people in this country. i just finished this morning taking to someone who is a cybersecurity expert and listening to all the things, just mind boggling. you have to be humble enough to be able to listen to other people and recognize that sometimes they might actually know more than you do. and be able to integrate that. there's nobody who knows everything. but we have incredibly talented nation. if we use our things appropriately our strength is in our unity not in our divisiveness. everything seems to think that whatever they do is greatest thing. if you're a politician, only politicians can solve the problems f. you're a businessman, only businessman can solve the problems. lawyer doctor, that's ridiculous. what we need to do put our

talents together, understand what our goals are and then to accomplish this. >> dickerson: when you think of donald trump is he humble enough to be president? >> that would be a decision that the voters will make. >> dickerson: what's your thought on that? >> as i said, i think i'm going to leave that up to the voters, that's the appropriate way to do it. >> dickerson: let me ask you this about the voters, particularly the donors you have highest number of people donating to your campaign of any of the republican candidates. you talked about that, seemed to get emotional about it earlier this week, temp us about that. >> well, i was talking about the kind of people who are donating to us. by the time the debate comes up we'll be just under 500,000 donations. average one being about $50. some of those donors are on fixed incomes and they write

letters and say, i can only give $25. but next month i'm giving 25 2/3rds, too. when i think about people being willing to sacrifice like that and what they have been through and what they think about the future of our country there's no way that i can let those people down. >> dickerson: asking about immigration which as you said that donald trump's plan for deporting those undocumented workers here is unrealistic. is it unrealistic because unfeasible or is it -- do you have a moral problem with that notion of trying to deport all the undocumented workers who are here. >> the logistics are difficult. as i said i'm all ears. if somebody can tell me exactly how you can do that i would certainly be interested in hearing it. but the fact of the matter is, our problem is that our federal government is not supporting the local authorities at the border. it's disgusting what is going

on. people are risking life and limb just to have come along say that -- when i was a kid that barely represented any impediment whatsoever. it's ridiculous. until we seal our borders everything else is irrelevant. let's say we get them filled because in the carson administration that what be done in the first year. also turn off the spigot that dispenses the goodies so that people don't have any incentive to come here and those who are here, we have to recognize that we captain just round them up but we can give them an opportunity to register. i would give them six-month period if they register they have a pristine record, they haven't been causing problems, i would give them an opportunity to become guest workers not citizens, not voting people, not people who get goodies. i think that would be a fairway to do it. in terms of them becoming citizens later on down the road if they have done things the

right way we the american people will decide what the criteria will be. >> dickerson: thanks so much for being with us. we'll can back to see how that hillary clinton bernie sanders match up is going in the key primary states. he new you'll need the right it infrastructure. from a partner who knows how to make your enterprise more agile, borderless and secure. hp helps business move on all the possibilities of today. and stay ready for everything that is still to come.

>> dickerson: we're back with cbs news election director anthony salvanto. >> on the democratic side it is bernie sanders surging he's up in iowa. he is propelled there by liberal voters, by very liberal democrats. up ten points on hillary clinton there. and then in new hampshire where he's been doing well for awhile he's up substantially. same story. up with liberal voters and doing very well with independence, too. but the thing here john, there's enthusiasm gap. bernie sanders voters say that they're enthusiastic about voting for him. much more so than people who are

supporting hillary clinton. seems to be coming out that he's speaking, he's resonating with that liberal component of the democratic base on the economic message, on the populous message going against the rich. going against the billionaire class. >> dickerson: just to recap up ten in iowa, up 22 in new hampshire, up by almost 40 points on the enthusiasm scale when that question was asked in new hampshire. >> shag winning in south carolina. there's a different set of demographics than other two states she's taking advantage of that. she's winning among democrats as opposed to the independents and doing very well with african american voters there as well. if you look further from south carolina down the line of primaries there are lot more states there in the south where she could have also that kind of favorable split. the other thing, too john, that across all of these states democrats say that e-mail server doesn't matter to them. very big numbers for that.

in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina, it's not affecting whether or not they are supporting mrs. clinton. >> dickerson: does she have some room there to return her standing not impediment that won't go away? >> it's the enthusiasm as opposed to that particular issue whenner with see sanders is generating the. that that is pulling in a lot of people who are then gravitating. >> dickerson: just quickly on the joe biden question, 22% in south carolina that s that an opening? >> it may be. we tested in all of these states, even of course he's not formally in the race that's the state where he does do the best. he's just behind bernie sanders in fact in the poll, 23 to 22. yes, of the three states given his support right now that would probably be the place where he would go. >> dickerson: all right. excellent. anthony our director of elections. thank you so much. we will be right back with more discussion about the political race this year.

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help companies make benefits simple and accessible... from anywhere. hula dancing? cliff jumping! human resources can work better. with xerox. >> dickerson: some are our cbs stations are leaving us now. for most of you we'll be right back with lot more "face the nation" including look at authenticity in politics and our political panel. stay with us. this is a story about doers. it's also a story about canals and the artificial heart electric guitars and rockets to the moon. in other words, this is the story of america- land of the doers. doin' it. did it. done. hard-working doers and smart-working doers. olds changed the way we put things together.

and keepin'em together? that was walter's doin'. doers built this country. they built the dams and the railroads. ♪john henry was a steel drivin' man♪ hmm, catchy. they built the golden gates and the empire states. doers turn nothing into something. and something into something else. doin' got this nation done... along with the hula hoop, blue jeans and that little thing we call the interstate highway system. and all this doin'? it takes energy, no matter who's doin'. there's all kinds of doin' up in here. or what they're doin'. what the heck's he doin'? energy got us here. and it's our job to make sure there's enough energy to keep doers doin' the stuff doers do. to keep us all doin' what we do.

>> dickerson: welcome back i'm john dickerson. joining us from chicago is democratic strategist and cnn senior political help tate or david axelrod. david, you've been inside these campaigns and you know what it's like take us inside of what happens when you're in campaign and the numbers aren't looking good which is the situation hillary clinton faces. >> i remember eight years ago almost to the day when everybody was reading last rights over the obama campaign, we were way behind in national polls and what happens is that every donor in america becomes amateur political consultant, very generous with their advice. i remember during that period one of the donors in chicago summoning him to a meeting that he must fire his leadership and replace it with people who are

more familiar with washington politics. you know it's a very uncomfortable place to be. but you have to keep your perspective in the midst of the storm and take the long view, make the adjustments you need to make and not panic. >> dickerson: not run. what does hillary clinton have to do at this moment? >> i think we ought to apply some perspective to this. she's still in a very strong position. iowa and new hampshire are challenging for her but iowa involves organizationf we hadn't started organizing iowa in march of 2007 with all momentum we had, i'm not sure we would have won the iowa caucus she learned that lesson. my understanding they're doing a better job of organizing iowa on the ground that's going to be meaningful in the winter as you -- as we discussed john. after iowa and new hampshire come series of states with large minority populations where she has decided advantage.

the situation isn't all that bleak for her as these polls would suggest. but there is certainly an alarm should be taken seriously. i think she needs to untether herself from the talking points from the telepromters from the polling, get herself out of this straight jacket of inevitability and speak from the heart about why she wants to be president what this cam spain all about. authenticity is the coin of the realm in presidential politics she needs to show her. >> dickerson: explain authenticity we hear that word all the time. talk about the transaction that takes place with a voter and the candidate who they think is quote, unquote authentic. >> i think people want to know that the person they're voting for is comfortable in their own skin and presenting themselves as they are. is not filtering everything through a seven-second political kind of delay so that it comes

out in absolutely calibrated language which is the feeling you get from them from time to time. they want to know that you are who you seem to be. and i would argue that authenticity is leading indicator in presidential races if you look at the last many presidential races the more authentic candidate tends to win that election at least in the general election. so it's very, verymportant. >> dickerson: when you hear about 'then 'tis tee a lot of people mention joe biden do you they he's going to run? >> i think he is authentic. he's utterly authentic. he says what he means and he says what he feels. and i think we ought to listen to what he's been saying lately. i don't think he's playing a game when he says that he doesn't know if he has the emotional reserves to run a pat shall race. he knows uniquely what it takes to run a presidential race. i think that this is going to be a very hard thing for him to overcome. and that's what he's been telling us so i take him at his word and ultimately that may be the deciding factor that he

won't run. >> dickerson: another candidate who gets the authentic label is bernie sappedders, he's doing very well in the polls give us your sense of his future and what the obstacles and challenges are for him. >> i think he's done a great job. i have to give him a great deal of credit, he's gone farther than anybody anticipated. it is partly because he comes across as a guy who believes exactly what he's saying is very passionate about it. but the test is different it gets harder as the race goes on. one of them is do you have the dimensionality to be president and it's not just about making a speech, it's about how you relate to people, that's going to be a challenge for him. but the other challenge the one that i mentioned he doesn't have a relationship with minority communities because of the state from which he comes. and you can see that in polling nevada and elsewhere. he's going to need to develop that to become a competitive candidate down the line. >> dickerson: all right. david axelrod thanks so much for

being with us. >> great to be with you. dickerson: we turn now to our political panel peg knee noonan from the "wall street journal," john heilemann is the comanaging editor of bloomberg politics. gwen ifill is the coanchor of the "newshour" as well as moderator and managing editor of washington week. and peter baker is the white house correspondent for the "new york times," welcome to all of you we've got a lot of numbers let's start with the democratic race. john, let me start with you, hillary clinton is behind bernie sanders, martin o'malley doesn't really show up in the polls, 5% in iowa but new hampshire and south carolina in our poll he's not showing up. what is the situation for hillary clinton right now? >> the situation is not great for hillary clinton right now it's not just -- the numbers in your poll have now taken another step in the same trajectory

she's losing altitude consistently in the past six months. the first two states of the nomination contest it's true what david axel odd they are unique almost bernie sanders has a purchase in those states this he might have in more demographically diverse states but those for big important states. if you were the front runner, inevitable front runner now losing ground every day in those states and seeing bernie sanders rise in those states you can see what's going on underneath those numbers which is lack of enthusiasm. questions about her honesty and trustworthiness they are bad owe mens' for her. not over by any mean bankruptcy is headed in the wrong direction. >> dickerson: when she tried to apologizing for having having -- not having two e-mail accounts, there were some reports in the paper about efforts to increase authenticity which we're trying to figure out what that means. you a did she do on that front

in reversing? >> must make her crazy having david axelrod being her defender when he took her down. she's not doing well. we also beyond what we see in the first polls. especially with joe biden included we all know from experience that you are always at your strongest before you get in the race. we except anguish but of course that takes away from her especially with the questions. i thought it was interesting however, the poll that people say it's not the e-mail controversy it means it's something else. >> dickerson: might be harder to fix because you can turn over a server say you're sorry but if it's something else -- peggy david axelrod said hillary clinton needs to untether herself. how does a person untether themselves? >> i wasn't sure what he meant untether from what? from this predictable defensive persona in which she's very self

protective or, i wasn't sure if that was exactly it. let me tell you what i think is most remarkable about what we're discussing here. mrs. clinton has been operating at the highest level of american politics for a quarter century now. and we're talking about her second presidential campaign or attempt to get nomination we're still saying things like, authenticity and you should show your warmth and humor. what an extraordinary in quarter century we still have to have that conversation. they were saying it 20 years ago. to me this all just is start can to feel like 2008 again. inevitable candidate starts to look evitable. if biden got in i must tell you within two or three days he'd be up 20 points. i think he would be such a serious contender. >> dickerson: i'll get to authenticity in a minute. peter since you spent so much time thinking about white house and campaign is supposed to tell us about candidates and handle

these situations. it is familiar in a white house to have a huge firestorm and everybody kind of hunkers down and they have to adjust but not adjust so much david axelrod talked about this, adjust so thatch they go haywire. what do we know about hillary clinton as president from what -- >> the clintons have been through this as you said so many times, scandal recovery. scandal, recovery. set back some of sort. they're got add it. the rebounders in american politics. we should not as john said count her out by any stretch. if you look at the 2 candidates running for president one person you still want to be if you were running is hillary clinton she has the best organization and money and position despite her problems. >> name recognition. >> but the problems are important and they do tell you something how she would be as president, she's reluctant to admit mistakes, talk about authenticity, i think the authentic hillary clinton said she wasn't sorry because i don't think she was.

i did the right thing, i was allowed to do it, what's the problem. she resists advice to say something otherwise. >> i tell you how you don't project authenticity. by having your campaign tell the world you're going to project authenticity then talk to reporters how you decided that you were going to project authenticity on the basis of focus groups. that's the way you don't project authenticity. one way you do project is go on steven colbert as joe biden you give interview like that that comes across as -- to everyone watching as human real, use the word anguish but funny at points. again, whether you like joe biden or not that's the real deal. that's a human being i can relate to. >> dickerson: once again you win the segue award for the roundtable. now run just a little piece of joe biden talking about what you're talking about from that

appearance on steven colbert talking about his thoughts for running for president. >> i don't think any man or woman should run for president unless, number one they know exactly why they would want to be president. two, they can look at the folks out there and say i promise you you have my whole heart my whole soul, my energy and my passion to do this. and i'd be lying if i said that i knew i was there. >> i hear him saying i don't know that i can trust myself to do this that i might run into something who mentions my son's name and i'll burst into tears. one thing that struck me is anyone you've ever covered who runs for president is 110% in it. believe themselves to be more possible for them than anybody else he's ever seen.

at least not yet. i don't know how he gets between now and when he needs to be serious. >> it's odd that he -- it strikes me as a little bit odd that he continually talks about his struggle to get there the reasons behind it struggle is well established it's done. i have a feeling he should stop talking like that if there's any possibility that he's going to get in this thing because as americans -- >> i think it's working for him. i think -- i don't think it's calculated but i do think it's been a huge part of the ground swell around this. the vice president's inner circle incoming from donors from elected officials, from voters trying to get him has ramped up exponentially. every time he talks about stuff like this it makes him seem like more sympathetic character. >> i understand that when you keep saying i just can't -- or i'm not sure i can get to 110% then two weeks later you announce you're at 110%.

>> talk about fire in the belly whether a candidate with low energy, it is a hard transition from this. the good thing for vice president biden's point of view his support the calls "run, joe, run" for a long time he was just forgotten. the vice president? i thought he was -- now -- >> exactly. >> uncle joe. >> he hated that. he wanted respect. he decides to run or not on his own terms because you can say the party wanted me to run even if i didn't. >> i have a ton of reporting on this this week, i have story coming out tomorrow morning that i believe the conversation of this narrative but i will say this for now. i have said for six months that i did not necessarily thought that i believed he would not run. i now think more likely that he will run, i think that he will get in later than people assume.

i think that he has more or less the human -- still needs to get over that last hump in his heart get there with his family but i think on every other metric, i think he basically -- >> save that tape. >> you know anything about the -- we have to get money, we have to get registered in each state, all that have stuff -- >> first filing deadlines the middle of november. very acutely aware of when they are. >> dickerson: final quick point. obviously know what gwen talked about this stuff now will drop away once he starts to run does he have the energy for that? >> i think that is the question. again, i don't want to say. he's being honest when he's not 100% there. but i think they believe what peggy said which is that when he gets in, if the things keep going the way that they're going when he gets in he'll get a huge boost in positive direction that

will eventually -- he'll get a big bump on the positive side going in. >> hillary clinton will just sit back let it happen. won't push back at all. >> my goodness. that's going to be something to watch. >> of course we'll all be here. for now we'll have to stop far a moment. we'll be right back with more from our panel.

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>> dickerson: we're back with more of our panel, john heilemann. peggy noonan switch to the republicans. donald trump is on top he's saying ben carson is too nice. ben carson, nice guy to number two, what do you make. >> ben carson saying i have had lot of experience in business, i've been on a lot of boards, i've been on compensation committees, that's interesting. look, that trump came from no where and established himself a huge story. ben carson has come up is number two now is a huge story. the disappearance of jeb that's a huge story. there's a lot of bubbling going on from. we see i suppose trump will now be saying ben carson has low energy and ben carson will be saying, you got to focus on this fellow's character. i think we may see some sparks on the debate on wednesday night. all these fellows have to go after each other the first debate was all trump.

second debate is everybody else going boom. >> i thought this horse race is really interesting almost more interesting was people's second choice. trump support is wide right now, people ask there is second choice. if ben carson is second choice, he is. ben carson is connecting in a way with people who might actually show up to vote in a way that the trump voters who are not voters as far as we can tell, they are first timers, drawn to the show. i'm not sure how lasting it is because that have second choice question. >> dickerson: and ben carson in our interview, peter baker, he does not want to -- he appeared to say something that might have been critical of donald trump then backed away today wasn't ready to either. >> the anti-trump. literally nice and not nice. not nice by the way is doing pretty well in american politics does reward that to some extent.

and so to see him at this position whether it lasts or not i don't know. he has to introduce himself in way that people know trump. they have nope trump for years. he's such a well established figure in american society. ben carson isn't. this debate this week is chance for him to take those numbers really introduce himself in real way to voters. >> but he's so calm and deliberate, carson that i wonder if he can negotiate himself into being a more fiery character. >> calm or deliberate on the stage in this debate. you saw this beak, jeb bush, carly fiorina, all going after trump. it didn't work to ignore him in cleveland. i don't think anybody is going to ignore him. it's going to be a blood bath. >> dickerson: but donald trump is not wrong when he says rick perry went after him now he has left the race. that it has not worked. >> it has not worked so far.

be interesting to see if the whole -- rather than in scatter shot way what it will be. i'm not predicting it, i think there's going to be on that stage people now think we must do something about this. ignoring it is not working either. >> you go after trump or after ideology this is not a debate about ideology at all that leaves people basically one option. >> or lack of. dickerson: let me ask you this question for so long we've heard from republicans who feel betrayed. now lot to show too conservative is that important, whatever donald trump has? >> i found that very interesting. in anthony's work, what they said that was most important to them was business experience. that tells you that in 1992 maybe it's the economy. maybe thinking economic stuff. it's clear that trump supporters

are ideologically all over the place. they are not necessarily conservative. his -- trump support is more interesting than that but i have also argued that the base sifts royaling a bit. is expressing different things. bunch of trump supporters are for nationallized health care. that tells you something is -- >> who right now are not necessarily thrilled with trump. they don't know how to deal with it. >> which you see them talking about, we want to build walls with doors. this guy is not reagan they're trying to say. >> we haven't seen an ad, a real ad against trump or money spent. we haven't seen real campaign yet right now what we see is the run up that is why all of the numbers are really interesting. >> in iowa watch those conservatives who like ben carson better than donald trump. that's an advantage he has.

>> dickerson: george w. bush was one of them. donald trump is not one of them. >> george w. bush actually spoke the language in way that people heard and understand. donald trump has been divorced, used to be for abortion rights. doesn't have that kind of background. right now it hasn't hurt him. the question is whether somebody can make it hurt him because it can bring that home to people. it's fascinating that people have adopt him despite that. >> dickerson: peter baker last word. we'll be back in a moment look at authenticity in politics. stay with us.

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>> dickerson: this summer we've been talking about 'then 'tis tee. cord to polls donald trump has it, ben carson has it, senator bernie sander has it, hillary clinton's advisors tell the "new york times" she's going to try to show it. then there's joe biden who has his own category. he told steven colbert that he can't commit to running for president because grief at the loss of his son beau keeps cam bushing him as a trip. >> i was talking about being the backbone of this country and all

of a sudden it's going great. a guy in the back yells served in iraq all of a sudden, i lost it. >> dickerson: you captain have a president who is going to lose it, biden says, struggling on making something of grief has also given structure to his life. having built a career after the death of his wife and daughter when beau was just a bow. >> mom had an expression as long as you are alive you have an obligation to strive and you're not dead until you've seen the face of god. no one owes you anything. it's just got to get up and i feel like i was letting down beau, i was letting down my parents. letting down my family. >> dickerson: how have you let them down? >> if i didn't just get up. just got to get up. >> dickerson: joe biden's battle between losing it and getting up is messier than what he comes to

expect in politics where authenticity is often an act. it's an effort to hold on to face and find grace and make something out of suffering. a struggle other people have known. and which feels authentic because it has nothing to do with politics. back in a moment. just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. ♪ no sudden movements. ♪ google search: bodega beach house. ♪ ♪

i'm a wife a sister

>> dickerson: that's it for us today if you want to read more about our cbs battleground tracker to go cbsnews.com. until next week for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson.

. looking for the blitz. two minutes to go in the quarter and a score on this drive. week one is here. jay gruden wearing a little teal polo. i think those are miami dolphins colors. guys are ready to get this underway. those are the redskins arriving at fedex field. washington hs miami. good morning. thank you for joining