>> dickerson: today on "face the nation," bump, is in the road. we'll talk to him about it in extensive interview. as presidential candidates make a last push for voters in two states, our new battleground tracker poll shows close race on both sides. and, we sat down with donald trump and asked him about what he sees as terrible week for his campaign. >> i've had many bad weeks and good weeks. i don't see this as the worst week. >> dickerson: if trump loses in wisconsin are republicans headed nor contested convention we'll ask the head of the party. plus analysis on all things political all coming up on "face the nation." good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. new cbs

polls in wisconsin show tight race on both sides. bernie sanders is ahead of hillary clinton by two points. among republican primary voters ted cruz leads donald trump by six points, 43 to 37 with john kasich far behind. but trump is up by large margins in both new york which holds its primary on april 19th and pennsylvania with the primary is on april 26. in rocky week for donald trump as he attempts to lock up the 1,237 delegates needed to secure the nomination. we sat down with mr. trump on friday at trump tower in new york which has a very large indoor waterfall which you'll hear in the background. a lot of people want to stop you are they succeeding? >> i don't know that it's been the worst week in my campaign. i've had many bad weeks and good weeks i don't see this as the worst week in my

certainly i've had some weeks you've been, where that was the end then you see poll numbers where they went up. yeah, people want to stop me because i'm leading by a lot. >> dickerson: you had a week where abortion rights -- everybody on both sides of the abortion issue didn't know what your position was. your campaign -- >> that was asked as hypothetical question. if abortion is illegal. bottom line is that it is -- it was asked as hypothetical. >> dickerson: bet book that your campaign manager is charged this week, that's not a good week. >> do i love it, no. ham i going to ruin a man's life when i look at tape that i supplied. that tape was one my facilities, we have cameras all over. i do good job with security. we have cameras and i looked i said, what did he do? destroy a man's life? you look at her you look at her initial statement, she grabbed a

that. she grabs my arm, when you look at her initial statement was that she was almost thrown down to the ground -- by the way if she were thrown down to the ground all those things happened, i would have fired him in instantaneously but i don't want to ruin a man's life over a tape that looks like nothing happened. >> dickerson: your campaign manager said she was delusional when the report came out. said it didn't happen. when report first came out did you talk to him? i could see maybe not even knowing that it happened -- >> j. dickerson: did you talk to him? >> i did speak to him. dickerson: what did he say? it. >> was such a minor incident that he might not have known what was going on. i think he said he didn't know her. >> dickerson: what did he say when you talked about it? >> i talked to him very briefly. i never thought this was going to be turn into -- actually what i really got engaged was after i saw this tape, because if you look at the tape practically anthing happened.

statement before she knew we had a tape, if you -- i supplied it, if you look at her early statement, john, it was like she was really accosted. i will tell you this, if what happened on her statement, if that happened i would have -- >> dickerson: i'd like to talk about his statement you work for -- >> but nobody wants to talk about her statement. >> dickerson: he works for you, you're the boss. >> excuse me. her statement was like this horrible thing happened. then look at the tape people are still trying to say, what happened. >> dickerson: mr. trump he said you said she was making it up. the videotape says she wasn't making it up. >> well, you know, if you look at the videotape, you don't even see a grab. you see almost being blocked out. >> dickerson: you are -- by the way, she grabbed me. just so you understand. you can see me go like that. she was not supposed to be asking any questions. the news conference was over. she bolted in from no where.

service. she grabbed my arm, which everybody sees. i went like that, like, who is this person. she started asking questions. she wasn't supposed to -- >> dickerson: did tell the truth when he said he didn't touch her? >> i can't tell you in what context. >> dickerson: you don't know that he touched her -- >> to me, what do i know street. dickerson: from the tape -- so minor -- that's why i look at it. only thing i have to go by is the tape. >> dickerson: when you see it does it -- >> she -- well he blocked her out. i don't see her grabbing. i see her being blocked out because she wasn't supposed to be there. but you also see her touching me. before he ever even got involved. here is the thing, do i ruin a machine's life, he's got four beautiful children he's got family do i fire him and ruin a man's life over something that when i looked at the tape i said, what's going on? you know, when i was in wisconsin i had a large audience. and i said, how many people saw the tape.

how many people think of those people that saw the tape think that he should be fired? not one -- you have it in your cameras. not one person raise -- >> dickerson: is it okay for a man to put a hand on a woman? >> i don't think -- i'm not even sure he did -- >> dickerson: just general principles? >> no. i would say, not. but you know when you're in the -- i think call it a scrum or something, where people are being knocked around all over the place, i've heard people in your business say, wow, i've gotten hit a lot worse than that. they get hit in the face with cameras. you know, we -- i was walking outside she shouldn't have been there. she shouldn't have grabbed me. and he really was -- >> dickerson: was he threatened -- >> i didn't feel threatened. i should sue her. but i do like -- i didn't like somebody asking me questions when that was all over. >> dickerson: here is the question comes out video shows that he did grab her, what he

>> what she said wasn't true. dickerson: excuse me dash are the main point did he touch her or not -- the question for you as person with the power in this relationship you got all these people working for you all these big huge buildings why not be the bigger person say, she was treated roughly, she was my guest. i apologize to her. and let's move on. >> not my job to apologize. i just happened to be walking -- >> dickerson: you're the man running the show. >> excuse me, i think that maybe if he didn't know it could have been because incident was so minor that he didn't even know what they were talking about that's what i think. they don't get taken compare of. let's see what happens. >> dickerson: you talk about -- i have to be honest i'm a loyal person, i'll be very loyal to the country and to the people of this country, i don't think i can destroy a machine's life -- man's life, it will detroy his life, already had big impact, i don't think i can destroy a man's life by what i

>> dickerson: let me ask you about abortion. what would you do to further restrict women's access to abortion as president? >> look, i just -- i know where you're going. i just want to say, a question was asked to me, it was asked in a very hypothetical, it was said illegal, i've been told by some people that was older line answer that was an answer that was given on basis of an older line from years ago, very -- on very conservative basis. >> dickerson: your arch answer you mean? the original answer. >> i was asked as hypothetical. hypothetically. the laws are set now on abortion. that's the way they're going to remain until they're changed. >> dickerson: you said you wanted -- you told bloomberg that you believed abortion should be banned at some point in pregnancy. >> i would have liked to see this

it would have been better if it were up to the states. right now the laws are set. that's the way the laws are. >> dickerson: you have feeling how they should change, a lot of laws you want to change from libel to torture? >> the laws are set. i think we have to leave it that way. >> $. dickerson: did you think it's murder, abortion? um -- >> um -- i have my opinions but i'd rather not comment. >> dickerson: you were pro life. >> i do have my opinions on it. i'd rather -- just don't think it's appropriate. >> dickerson: you don't disagree with that proposition that it's murder? that abortion is murder? >> i don't disagree with it. dickerson: let me ask you about abortion question that you explained the hypothetical nature and spread of nuclear weapons. but you said you would be okay with south korea or japan. >> it's totally -- i know they're cous

be all they have to do is watch i spoke with anderson cooper, i spoke to chris, i spoke to all of them i spoke to the "new york times." and i thought it was very good piece in the "new york times." i would be probably the last to even think about using it. people say, you promised never, ever to use it. you can't do thing like that you have to have cards on the table. nuclear is a horror show like i said i don't want to go into iraq, i shade a long time ago. i wasn't the -- lot of other people. nuclear is a disaster. with that being said we are taking care, if you look into nato as example. we are funding and taking -- disproportionately of the costs of many countries. many, many countries that are taking us for a ride. we have to do something with nato. when it comes to nuclear, you are going to have to ask yourself at what point and at what cost do we continue to protect japan and germany, many other countries. w,

protection in any way near what it's costing us. we owe 19 trillion. at what point do they get involved and they say, we have to pay more money nor kind of protection. at some point they may have to protect themselves. do i like that, not particularly. but we cannot afford it as a country. we owe $19 trillion, going to $1 because of the horrible omnibus budget it. we cannot continue to do that. >> dickerson: when people looked at your answer on abortion they felt you were winging it on policy issues -- >> i'm not wedging it. dickerson: foreign policy team and your hotel in washington. what did you ask them? >> more than anything else i discussed nuclear. the single biggest problem that this world has and we'll knock out isis fast and do a lot of things but single biggest problem that the world has is nuclear. >> dickerson: in what way --

nuclear weapons that is a disaster. i think that probably worries me the most. >> dickerson: which country of all the ones -- >> it could be many people not even countries. it's splinter groups. >> dickerson: did they say anything to you that you have been saying and said, you probably shouldn't say that. >> not at all. in fact, many of them, i'll give you full list of the people that were there, the list is being added on, we have many people that are top people that want to come on board. many were surprised at my knowledge and they were surprised at the feel that i have for it. i have a feel. i have -- >> dickerson: what is the feel? >> i'll tell you. the feel is i was asked on a certain competitor's show of yours about nato. as an entrepreneur, i've never been really asked too much about nato, not exactly what i'm doing deals or building buildings in washington or new york or wherever i may be building them, built the question was asked. knowing a little bit about nato at the time, this is couple of weeks ago, i said in m

many decades old, like now 68 years but it's many decades old. and nato is expensive because we can't afford this any more. people are being brought in. turned out i was right every single subject. the problem is i had very good interview with david sanger i was covered fairly by the "new york times"m sun usual for them if you want to know the truth. but i was covered by him. very, very fairly. and people were surprised at the instinct that i had because it turns out that we are spending too much money on nato and turns out very importantly that it is obsolete. nato not talking about terrorism. >> dickerson: another meeting you had in washington with the republican national committee did they treat you fairly? are they treating you fairly? >> i'd rather let you know in six months from now. i don't know. >> dickerson: you said they haven't been treating you -- >> a very nice person. i get along with them but have to tell you i think what is unfair is, i won the state of louisiana

i made speeches, i had tt last evening in a hangar with thousands of people, it was incredible. big airplane hangar, a boeing hangar i said, this is unbelievable. i wasn't expected to win louisiana, i won louisiana, right? i won lot of states. i won i think 22 states. and i got less delegates than guy who lost. >> dickerson: isn't that proof that the people are -- >> no. no,. >> dickerson: you wouldn't play every angle to win? >> when i win the state, i'm not supposed to get less delegates than somebody -- >> dickerson: but as businessman -- >> you know what, it's not -- you go in, you win and you get less delegates. now i just won missouri. that just came out. there was the whole thing going on there, too. but let me just say something. when i go in and win the state of louisiana and i get less delegates, that's not the way the system is

injured unfair or illegal? >> i think it could be illegal if you want to know the truth that's my question. >> dickerson: really? >> give me a break. i go in, he campaigned, i campaigned i got the votes then i get less delegates? >> dickerson: there was reporting that you seemed a little upset with your own team's delegate operation that they're not in this fight as much as they should be, is that right? >> those reporting other than i mentioned that louisiana, which really bothers me because the people of louisiana were amazing to me. i was not expected to win louisiana. and i did look at my people i said, wait a minute, folks, you know, we should have maybe done better except i also said i won the state, and i think there's a real legal consequence of winning a state that's nonsense. you know what? everyone agrees with me. >> dickerson: lot of people in the game who know this game -- >> i don't care about the game. i care about the people. you win a

the delegates? >> dickerson: one of the things -- >> i got some. i got many but i didn't get the number that i should be entitled to. >> dickerson: your argument you come into a new system, learn about it fast win like nobody has ever won before. with this delegate fight, a new system, you got to get up to speed on it, do you feel like you're going to win like never before because ted cruz -- >> excuse me. excuse me. ted cruz was going to win alabama and arkansas and mission miss and he was going to win kentucky, was going to win all of these states. i won them all don't get carried away what we don't know what we're doing. he's won six or five or seven. i've won 2 states. let's not get carried away with we don't know what we're doing. the one state that i told you about was louisiana. but i won a tremendous -- on top that have i have almost 300 more delegates than him. so, i think he know something about what i'm doing.

from democracy sings, i have millions of votes more than anybody else. millions. millions. that should mean something, too. i know in the system it doesn't mean anything. but i have millions more votes than ted cruz. >> dickerson: where are you on the pledge that you took to support the party. >> i want to support the party. i don't have to comment too much on it right now i want to support the party. if ted or somebody doesn't want to support me that's okay. that's okay. but if they don't want to support me honestly that's okay. i can understand how they feel, one of those things. >> dickerson: you've got a huge following, if there's another nominee would you tell that big following, we're all republicans, go support that nominee? >> i will tell you when we meet at the convention. we'll see how we're treated. i want to see how we're treated. i signed the pledge. wanted me to sign the pledge. i'm the one that being discriminated against. everybody is worried about me. because maybe lot of people didn't expect this to h

i'm not a politician, i'm self funding my campaign lot of people very upset about that because people want to give money because when they give money they control the guy that runs for office. you understand that better than in. i don't take their money. people don't like that. people don't like a lot of the things that i'm doing. but you know who does like it? people that are voting. and people are coming from democrats and people are coming from independent, you know who is coming unbelievably, people that never, ever, voted before. people that are 30, 40, 50, 60 years old that never voted before they're voting in droves. >> dickerson: we'll that have to leave it there, mr. trump. >> thank you very much. dickerson: trump campaign communications director clarified the candidate's comments on 'borrowings saying, quote, mr. trump gave accurate account of the law as it is today and made clear it must stay that way now. until he is president. then he will change the law through his judicial appointments allta

there is nothing new or different here, unquote. we'll be right back.

>> dickerson: reince priebus. driven says wait to see how republican party treats him. how do things look from your end? how is he treating the party, he was quoted this week as saying, i'm not sure which is worse dealing with the party people for dealing with the press. that's a low blow being compared to us. >> right. it sure is, john. he is being treated fairly. look, i think some of this is posturing, i've been talking about this particular issue i think for about nine months now. if candidates make commitments to the values and the principles of our party, we expect them to keep it.

i think if candidates don't want to be loyal to the party that they seek the nomination from, i think they make it more difficult for themselves. because it's actually the party and our voters that are voting in our party primaries that choose the nominee. it only makes sense to be true to the values and principles of our party if you want to be the nominee of our party. >> dickerson: part of this agreement that he's made is not just -- almost contract with the party to get information from the party about supporters and that kind of thing, if he said he didn't want to support the republican party any more would you cut off whatever the party gives to him as a candidate? >> well, if any candidate actually declared they don't want to support the party, of course we would. but that's not what's happened here. this is a hypothetical and it's also something that is more of answer of we'll wait and

in regard to other candidates' comments, no one has broken any pledge or their commitment to our party but at this point it's a bunch of talk and we'll wait and see. >> you had meeting with donald trump this week, do you think he's familiar with the whole delegate process, vair just stages as familiar as he should be with it? >> i don't think the candidates themselves have to know every little detail how selection of delegates occurs and what the percentages are in each of these states. but the team needs to know that information and obviously work within the confines of the rules that are laid out. just like any -- i was playing a board game with the kids last night, firsting this you do open the box, take out the rules and read them. and try to figure out how to play the game. obviously rules matter, we adhere to rules and principles in our party unlike the democrats and we respect the rules and so we're going to respect the rules of

>> dickerson: donald trump says in raft he thinks they have not followed the rules do you think any evidence that that is the case? >> i don't, but i don't know every detail of what happened in louisiana. what i do know is that donald trump and ted cruz are receiving the exact amount of delegates that they were awarded based on the outcome of louisiana. those delegates are bound to the candidates so they have to vote for the candidates. now, the chase is on for unbound delegates. when marco rubio dropped out he had unbound delegates in louisiana. that's when those campaigns have to get into those states and make the case to the state party and all those particular people running for those slots. from what i understand that's where the argument is. >> dickerson: we'll have to take quick commercial break. we'll be right back with more in a moment.

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>> dickerson: there's been an amtrak derailment in chester, pennsylvania, this morning. according to cbs affiliate kyw the train was traveling from new york to savannah when it hit by backhoe on adjacent track. there have been two fatalities, both of them from the backhoe. and there are reports of passenger injuries from the train. service between new york and wilmington, delaware, has been shut down. we'll continue following this breaking story on our digital network, cbsn and tonight on the cbs evening news. if your family outing is magical

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injured welcome back to fakes the nation we're back with more from the chairman of the republican party, reince priebus. i want to ask you about the holings which suggest that majority of voters agree with donald trump which is if he goes to the convention and he has the most delegates even if he doesn't have the magic number that he should get the nomination. >> that's why we're working really hard at educating folks as to what the rules are. and most of the people people don't care about the rules of the convention or how nominees are chosen. but there's nothing that's going to change that rule, majority of delegates is needed just like it was for abraham lincoln in 1806 it's needed today. you have to have a majority, everything in america decided on majority. it's no different than electing a judge, a

based on elect coral college majority. but majority matters in america. you have to have a majority. it is a magic number, because it's 50% plus one. that's not going to change. >> dickerson: part of the education process, why does there need to be this second stage? people think, voting took place, that's all that needs to happen why is there this second change where everybody goes to convention, talk about it one more time? >> well, a long time ago, what used to happen to delegates just run for office or run for the position within each of the states and they show up to the convention they would vote for whoever they wanted to. somewhere along the line, john, someone decided, wouldn't it be great if we expanded the reach of our party and we had contests and primaries in each of the states and we would bind the vote for these delegates for one or two ballots. then after a couple of ballots people could go back to the old days of voting the way they wanted. it's sort of hybrid of that today which is we have these

contests, the votes happen. the votes bind delegates. the delegates are then chosen in the states. those delegates are bound to the outcome and most cases from those votes in those states. they go to convention. that's what we're doing here today. it really isn't that complicated but if you're not familiar with it, it just sounds very different and that's why we have to be out in front we have few months to try to educate as many people as possible. >> dickerson: there's been a lot of talk this would be about if donald trump is the nominee he would have special challenges in the general election with two groups, with women voters and then also with hispanics. as somebody who cares about the health of the party how much of a challenge he is special challenge would donald trump be as the party nominee? >> well, look, every candidate has positives and every candidates have challenges that you have to overcome in general election. but the fact is donald trump also brought in millions of new

registration. 70% turn out increase. some of these things are historic for our party. look at the democrats, they're in the ditch. what about hillary clinton have you seen her numbers with women? some of this stuff is pretty startling, i understand that we've got some drama in our side of the aisle that we'll have to contend with we'll be prepared to like never before. you look at the democrats they're in for a fiasco. especially comes in indiets hillary clinton and have open convention, who knows, i've heard people talking about joe biden coming back into the fold. there is drama but we're prepared and we're going to win and we're going to retake the white house in november. >> dickerson: we'll have to leave it there, thanks so much for being with us. >> you bet. dickerson: now we turn to cbs news director of elections anthony salvanto for our battleground tracker poll. let's start in wisconsin, donald p

how big a deal is that, what does it tell us? >> wisconsin is tailor made for someone like ted cruz. he does very well with the very conservative. and that's what most republicans in wisconsin say they they are, they are looking for most consistent conservative. in that respect it's very important, maybe even must win for cruz but put wisconsin in context as we head into april, we turn to states like new york, like pennsylvania. ted cruz not going to find quite as receptive an audience he does really need to make hay in wisconsin if he's going to hope to derail trump. >> dickerson: so, those who have been looking at with you business as test of drum bad week going to send sahl might be over reading things? >> his overall health at this point is stable, maybe not exactly where a front runner wants to be. that's because his supporters say, they admit in the polls that sometimes they think he goes too far in what he does a

that's a little bit extraordinary. find supporters of candidate willing to say that about their chosen candidate. they are with him anyway. that's baked into the cake. for those on the presence about donald trump that may be limiting his growth because they're the ones who are more likely think he's going too far not to be spur swayeded to maybe come over to his side. >> dickerson: based on who is supporting donald trump his back and forth on abortion do you think that matters much of who is supporting trump or cruz? >> the people strongly pro life are not with him anyway. >> dickerson: let's step back a second talk about the delegate math. let's imagine for a moment that the ted cruz wins wisconsin, that 42 delegates, how much does that change things for donald trump? >> it pushes him off course a little bit. it really puts the pressure on him to run the table in new york and some of those atlantic states coming up towards thend of april. so, in all of these states, most

given out by district.ew york, d have to go in, he'll be going into hostile territory looking for pockets of friendly territory where he can pick up few delegates. trump will be having to try to really run up the score there in those states. to make maybe two-thirds of the delegates along the way to get back, i think, john, this will all be decided in one of two places. it will be decided in california in june, last big primary. or going to cleveland. >> dickerson: what you mean either trump will get to the magic number of 1237 by however many delegates or fall short of that everybody will head to cleveland, nobody will have majority it will be contested convention. if that is the case, that second idea, open convention, is that why donald trump's conversation abut louisiana and these back room efforts to secure delegates is that why that is so important? >> yes. that is why that is so important. here is what hap

the general election night, somebody wins a state, we say they're going to get x number of delegates. those are delegate slots, who actually fills those, who packs their bags heads to cleveland. that process goes on in state at the counties at the state party convention. now, each of the campaigns would love to have their loyalists filling those slots. because what will happen is, if this does become an open convention, after that first ballot where most of the delegates are bound to vote for whichever candidate they're going to start arguing and brokering. now do most of them whatever they choose you want your loyalists to fill those slots. it's like, when you get that plus one and guest invite to a ball, you take somebody who just wants to go or somebody who really likes you. they want somebody who really likes them and fight for them in cleveland. >> we have about 30 seconds, if there is this fight in cleveland, how div

party at this moment just to give us sense of tempers where they will be if there is a big fight in cleveland? >> the polings show that the supporters of ted cruz would be upset if donald trump would get the nomination and that donald trump supporters would be upset if anyone else gets the nomination. so, yes, they are somewhat divided. trump is saying, he's brought lot of new voters to the process. that does seem to be the case. a lot of his voters say they are interested because of donald trump. so the balancing act then not to try to alienate those voters but also play the ones who would be upset. >> that's right. we saw chairman reince priebus, thanks so much for being with us. we'll be right back in a moment with our political panel. stay with us.

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yers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it is up to you. tylenol®. >> dickerson: joining us now is walt street journal columnist and cbs contributor peggy noon none. mark leibovich from the new york sometimes. ruth marcus is columnist at the "washington post." and ed o'keefe covers politics for the "washington post." welcome to all of you. peggy, start with you. what kind of week was it for donald trump? >> i think he had a terrible week. i think he took a pounding in part from the press but mostly from his own mouth. i think he added to the ago gaga of the strange or outrageous or not fully thought through

that at a certain point i think this is the point, by the way, starting to give pause even to his own supporters. he ought to be growing instead my sense he's sort of stuck. because of how he talks does not bring forward a presidential dignity. i do think, however, we're seeing an act of trump -- act two is try to survive. a, try to survive his own mouth. and b, try to survive what is quietly happening around him which is the race for delegates that people are quietly pulling like strands away from him. >> dickerson: the two tier process, public process then these. >> i would say this.

this. i don't think there have been weeks this bad. from the outside of the campaign, there's been some exhilaration around donald trump which i think at this point seems to be giving way to some weariness. again, hard to quantify this. this seemed like a week or time where tone really matters. he should be, hate to say the word, timid. this is a reach out period of the election. i don't think he lost many vote terse week, he might have. he's a 33, 34, 35%. this is a growing time for him it should be. i think for as long as it isn't he's in some trouble. >> dickerson: looked like donald trump was trying to pivot he met with the rnc talked about unity, met with his foreign policy advisors at his hotel here in washington. showing that he has conversation about these important issues that a president would face. he's trying to do part of the pivot. >> he's trying, but he's victim of friendly fire which is h

shooting himself. when you have a week campaign manager is accused of battery against a reporter and that's not the worst thing that happens to you in the week, that's a really bad week. i thought the abortion answer continuing with your questioning of him was really revelator reand problem for donald trump on three different levels it illustrated, we've been talking about conventional wisdom, donald trump doesn't know enough of what he's talking about when he's talking about foreign policy. that's correct. he doesn't know when he's talking about policy, period. number two, he says something and then when it turns out to be wrong it's not his fault it's the questioning. it's the questioning, the hypothetical or it was convoluted. third part is managing to alienate both sides simultaneously which is really quite magnificent. i have to just point out that if you look at donald trump's position on on owe borin

less extreme than ted cruz's position. ted cruz would not have exceptions for rape or insus in cases of abortion. where donald trump said including to you like to leave it to the states. ted cruz wants to make it illegal everywhere. >> i would say talk about wariness, i think this whole week for trump comes bad time for him but really rough time for republican party overall. there was real evidence of the struggles that they're facing on so many different fronts. there was supreme court case they should have won regarding labor unions in california that resulted in 4-4 split because of the death of the anton knee ask liam two southern governors facing pressure from the business community. which is traditionally been with the party. but now splitting with them on social issues. then you had all this stuff with trump on abortion, but i think more troubling to lot of republicans were his comments on nuclear weapons and nuclear power, idea that

have nuclear weapon, that southr using nuclear weapons against europe, all that have added up to together suggests rough time for the party. that's why i think there is growing concern in these later states that maybe we do have to do something to at least slow trumps momentum. >> dickerson: it look like in new york and pennsylvania at least as far as our polls, donald trump has fine fire wall, things may not go for him in wisconsin he's up by 30 points in new york. >> he is. i think i agree with anthony this will -- california, cleveland, are probably the keys. wisconsin is extremely important state. as long as ted cruz can win in wisconsin, this will be a muddled race. muddled is a friend to ted cruz. and john kasich, which means it will continue and donald trump will be denied straight ahead sense of destiny. >> still have in his back pocket that he speaks to an irritation with the kind of queni

his posns are on little things, or what his campaign manager did, he speaks bigger truth for me that other stuff just small in comparison to that big thing he does which is talk about rebalancing the world to helps for me the voter. >> i think at certain point attrition happens if he doesn't turn around the way he acts. the way he speaks. i think the key word for him is professional lies. followed by question mark. can he professionalize his campaign operation so that he as some real governing voices and minds around him who can say, boss, don't do that. or, boss, just we'll have to turn it around. or, boss, you know that -- you can't be tweeting like a madman any more. then he needs a whole deep organization in which he can serious overlth

delegate thing. cruz people are very honest about, you know, they say, you are looking at poll numbers we're going in here and there we're getting -- trump has to stop that if he's a serious guy. >> dickerson: talk about the delegates. >> this is the weird thing. he has staff, he's hired few people in the last few days who have experience with this. the problem is they have experience doing this in 1976 and 1980 last time we had convention. what he doesn't have that cruz has is a team that understands these rules back and forth and has been cultivating what they call unbound delegates in the states that didn't have contests or where there are unbound delegates to be had. places like north dakota, colorado next week end. places like louisiana. then even in tennessee yesterday where idea fighting against the party establishment will now come back to bite you because he's done nothing to cultivate these people who will have to show up in cleveland make a decision. if you get round three or four there is no allegiance to him.

of the game box like reince priebus said. peggy makes a point, trump's failure to increase, failure to coalesce. you see trump was ahead of ted cruz by ten points a month ago. now -- now ted cruz ahead trumps number stayed flat. he's not bringing additional people in. >> dickerson: we'll hold it there. pause everyone. we'll be right back with more from our panel.

♪ ♪ most weekends only last a couple of days. some last a lifetime.

we go together. book at hampton.com to geed et a gscount. >> dickerson: we're back with our panel. the last question on republicans here if there is contested convention. donald trump has something that nobody else has which is megaphone. if he says this is unfair, i have more delegates, i don't care how you get majority i have more in cleveland. isn't that a strong argument for him? >> sure. it's a strong argue. it's procedural, that soul a about trump basically. i was saying during the break that what was important about this election going in. i remember governor christie about this, i did a story couple of yeargo

was important to see a play out in the republican party about who they wanted to be. as it turns out, so much oxygen, so much talk, so much argument has been given over to what will happen with trump here. what will happen in cleveland. i do think that that sort of part of the weariness we were talking about earlier. >> dickerson: switch to the democratic side. hillary clinton in a moment by the rope line had very pointed retort to somebody who was charging more about taking money from oil and gas which is line that sanders campaign. it was -- what did you think? >> i never think it it's good idea to be wagging your finger at people when you're in politics. it does not translate well. she did. it's a lesson, i don't want to get in trouble for doing it. it was frustration that she's feeling that's totally understandable. she was on the other side of this transaction eight years

when she when it was rather clear that barack obama was going to be the nominee. it's reasonably clear, though not certain that hillary clinton is going to be the nominee. but bernie sanders is an irritant. he has won a series of primaries, he may well probably more likely than not to win wisconsin and he is getting under her skin. >> dickerson: the clinton campaign would say she's not irritated that he's getting under her skin he keeps saying she's captive of these interests and she's not. >> double standard, why don't you go look at his fundraising history, why are you always looking at ours. what it did more than anything is expose private frustrations they have add over the course of the last few weeks he has this money he's still running they can't turn totally to focus on donald trump and republicans which they would like to do. you're right, the shoe is on the other foot. but i think there's some concern that if they don't start trying to define him now before he

defines her, there could be trouble for him. >> can i say, i have a feeling we should keep our eye on new york. i think anthony just said she's ten points ahead or -- ten points ahead. however, i went to one of her rallies in new york at the apollo theater the other day, people were enacting the appropriate enthusiasm that this was not why hillary loved the sisterhood of the traveling pants suit is not there. then bernie goes to the bronx he's got x thousands of people, really. i feel like -- i'm a new yorker, something is going on in new york we're not seeing it in the polls yet maybe. >> i total low agree. i think there is almost annoying smugness around the democratic party to think that all of the people are wrapped around the other party all around trump. this is reminds me of simpsons veisode with lisa wants to be a

nuisance animal, the clinton campaign seems to be treating the campaign like a nuisance animal. this is a debate the democrats need to have. >> dickerson: speaking of debates, now a debate over the race. >> how could interfere with basketball game which in my house really big deal. it just goes to the continuing nuisance factor, i think that the thing that so fascinating if you imagine a clinton-trump race, it's not a popularity contest, it's an unpopularity contest. both of them are -- are negative with voters. you talk about, talk about enthusiasm gaps but here the gap would are both of them. he's way more unpopular than she is. it would be remarkably dreary race, sour. >> who do you dislike least. >> it's springtime, we'll have to end on that support of depressing note. thanks to all of you for

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only fios can. >> dickerson: tomorrow is the official opening day for major league baseball. and here at "face the nation" we're pleased to report on the role that poll tux has long played. it's william howard taft has been anyone's first draft pick, when he heaves the first pitch at the washington senators game in 1910 he started a tradition. whether righty or lefty, democrat or republican, every subsequent occupant of the white house stood in the stands and let one fly. that is until ronald reagan. former actor knew how to put on a good show he moved the tradition to the mound. >> he wants to throw another one. i don't think he was happy with the location that have first one. >> that wasn't much better. dickerson: bill clinton not known as

arm. but evhe most athletic president can struggle to find the strike zone. or the broad side of a barn. in hard times the first pitch has become a symbol of resilience and renewal. in an era where cooperate ricks is threatened there's a time where everyone is on the same team. speaking of baseball, ken burns will be here next sunday to preview his pbs documentary on jackie rob unson until then i'm john dickerson for nation fakes the nation.

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