>> john: today on "face the nation", attacks and president politics at home. people dead after an attack at a restaurant in bangladesh and an airplane in turkey. republican senators john mccain, and lindsey graham join us to discuss the u.s. response and choices facing the next president. plus, hillary clinton sat down for three and a half hours with the fbi yesterday to talk about her private e-mail server while secretary of state. >> bill clinton had a chance meeting with attorney general lorette lynch put them on the defensive. >> just happened to be at the airport. >> john: w

schiff, and in a week of speculation, we'll have reporters covering the campaign and put it all in perspective. panel with great moments of leadership and courage in american history. it's all ahead on "face the nation". captioning sponsored by cbs this morning on "face the nation". i'm john dickerson. we had plans to start with john mccain and lindsey graham wo are in kabul, afghanistan, while we wait for their helicopter to land, we'll start to the house intelligence committee, adam schiff. i want to start with a more recent news. attorney general lynch who has the ultimate say in the e-mail case in which hillary clinton is involved, had a chance meeting with bill clinton on a tarmac. you were a prosecutor. wouldn't the fact that the husband of someone you were investigating was on the tarmac at all set

bells immediately? >> well, it certainly could. look, i think both of them wish their airplanes had nerve come near each other. and i think they both acknowledged they preferred they had nerve gotten together. i do think it was a chance encounter, and i do fully believe what the attorney general said, that they discussed nothing about the case, and just talked about their grandkids and playing golf. so i understand this was a regrettable instance where they got together coincidentally, and at the same time the attorney general said she's going to let the prosecutors make the case, and i have every confidence that's exactly what will happen. >> john: and you think that's enough to put away the concerns of conflicts of interest or the shadow she said was brought about by the meeting? >> i think it is. you're never going to satisfy some people, but i have tremendous confidence in the attorney general and

comey. they're straight shooters. they've been career prosecutors their entire lives, and if they say they're going to conduct the investigation by the book, that's exactly what's going to happen. i have never confidence that they will make a apolitical decision and do what's in the public interest. >> john: let me ask you about the substance of the server before we go on. you're an expert, you understand cyber espionage. you know the reports of the russians hacking into the democratic national committee. that's a security matter in intelligence. didn't having a private server at home leave a huge security vulnerability for the secretary of state? >> well, using i private server was certainly a mistake, and the secretary acknowledged using any personal server, whether it was private or a commercial personal server has a security vulnerability. but we have a perspective. the state department's own

we know that that has been successfully breached. we don't know that there was any successful breach of secretary clinton's server. the reality is, none of these servers are immune from cyber attack. you have to defend them the best you can, and the best practice is obviously to use a government server at all times and to make improvements to the servers which we are still light years from perfecting. but yes, it was an unnecessary vulnerability to use a private server, and the secretary acknowledged that. >> john: given what you know about the efforts to get into the personal e-mails of all kinds of people in government, some attempts were probably tried. given what you know about all the different efforts in cyber espionage? >> it certainly wouldn't surprise me. look, we have hacks of the democratic party. there's obviously great interest in the secretary and in donald trump in terms of

criminal hackers. yes, you would have to expect it would be a great interest. you have to expect that people would try to get in. i take the view, frankly, that everyone is going to ultimately have access to personal accounts. none of this can be trusted. untomorrow-- unfortunately, the offence moves quicker than the defense in moving through the cyber door. >> john: tirkish president said for terrorists there's no difference between istanbul, london, chicago, rome. what's your feeling about these upticks in attacks and security in the united states. we're dealing with an enemy, and their attacks are strategic, and the massive attack in baghdad is designed to pull iraqi troops away from mosul. where there's a hope

and retake that town. they're designed to send a message to tush're turkish government that they fight on the border with isis, and make somewhere available for us for turkish bombing runs. the attack in bangladesh is a result of losing ground in places like syria and wanting to expand globally. without the draw ofap expanding caliphate they're going to show recruitment problems, and these are all strategic. we're going to have to intensify our security, and homeland security, and we're going to have to work with muslim allies on bert countering this ideological draw that isis has, the perversion of islam. we have to intensify efforts. but it doesn't call to move in a completely different direction. jax*ubt'

>> john: what's the feeling about the threat to americans traveling? is there reason for concern? >> there is reason for more concern. i think the cia director brennan last week listed all the reasons why isis is still virulent. they're losing territory, but expanding global presence. and when people are self-radicalized and don't share plotting with others, that make its tough to stop. and we're seeing turn of foreign fighters to places like europe where it's significant about the recent attack in turkey. according to the turks. this is conducted by russians, and we're seeing a return of the caucus fighters. they were taken from the battlefield and sent back as foreign fighters. the emphasis is changing on this global terrorism campaign, and that introduces nesk

vulnerabilitys that unfortunately, all have to be aware of. >> john: congressman adam schiff, thanks for breaking that down. and as we wait for the senators to land to break down the weekend in politics, we're joined by molly ball. and jerry seib, and o'keefe, a political reporter for the "washington post". >> gary, let's start with you. what is the status of her campaign at the end of the week? >> i think the fbi's communications is the question of whether classified information was mishandled makes it clear for months that a final step would be the interview with the secretary herself. i think most people believe this is probably headed toward a conclusion that will stop short of criminal action and no indime. the problem is

clinton meeting means even if that's the conclusion there will be a cloud hanging over a successful end, and they call that an unforced error. >> john: true n the short term, the meeting with bill clinton just put a bright light on this issue again, which is not a good one for hillary clinton. what do you think? just feels like the republicans, the next thing they'll say is release the three and a half hours of testimony. when that doesn't happen they'll be able -- >> she keeps giving them opportunitys to create new ways to highlight this issue. as you were saying this is a cloud over her candidacy that she has had a role in keeping alive. and you know, the congressman talked about trusting the justice department to take an apolitical decision. i don't think they k. any conclusion to this investigation is through

political lense. if it ends without indictment, a large number of people are suspicious, especially given that meeting that weed don't know what was discussed. and if it ends with an indictment, obviously, there's a huge problem for her candidacy. >> john: how due see it playing out? >> i do think comey being involved is the silver lining. his reputation is marked solid, despite history, and the george w. bush administration. we carries respect up there, and republicans have been saying we will trust his decision. he's going to have to go to congress and explain himself in the committee hearing and what not, but then this week, of course, throw a wrench into that, and her saying leave it to the professionals is a way of trying to preserve some sense of a political decision making. >> the agony is heading toward a happy conclusion with the bengahzi committee releasing a report with no

bombshells. depositions in a parallel lawsuit held, and nothing damaging came out of that. the justice department is heading toward a happy conclusion for mrs. clinton. now, of course, it's hard to make a clean break. that's a problem. >> john: and doesn't it, molly, bring up the issue in the campaign of choices. hillary clinton versus donald trump. pluses and minuses for both. one pole shows his numbers are better than hillary clinton. that's a weakness for her campaign. >> it absolutely is. i talked to her on the campaign trail, and i met former supporters of her who feel she's tainted and has too much personal baggage, from this issue, from the speeches and other seeming profiteering she did since leaving office. there's a cloud over her candidacy. i think when you look at the polls that have hillary clinton ahead of donald trump,

even if they don't like donald trump. they have a hard time going to hillary clinton because of that issue. >> and the numbers you're referring to. 45% of americans find trump trust worthy, and 45% clinton trust worthy. imagine if it wasn't trump. imagine if it was rubio or cruz or bush or scott walker. we'd be closing the deal with her right now, because all of these issues regarding decision making and trust and whether she violated classified information zoo-someone who is held in higher regard would be able to make those arguments in a more reputable fashion than he can. >> john: speaking of trump, jerry, let me start wu. he took on the issue of trade. there was a consensus that trade is good. donald trump went after that saying trade has not been good. >> this is the change in the republican party

not only are there questions about whether free trade should be embraced but the republican nominee will take that in the opposite direction, and i think one of the problems for the party is that's an issue on the populace side of the party that agrees with donald trump and you have the chamber of commerce who says it emphatically disagrees this week. i think it will be fascinating to see what the trade language on the republican platform says. my guess is it will say little to nothing. >> john: molly, the republicans have been saying donald trump needs to say on message and give solid speeches. that was a good solid speech, but not on the republican message. >> right. well, i think that what we're finding with trump is that you can professionalize the campaign, but you can't necessarily professionalize pore change the candidate. so he does -- he has given a few more professional sounding ee

republican establishment wants to hear, and he continues to run frontally against the establishment. not just paper over the differences. he's calling out the chamber of commerce by name, and the donor class, and establishment on the republican side. >> john: we're going to commercial. he's running against two parties including his own. we'll get back to that question in a moment. stay with us. ou had chickenpox then the shingles virus is already inside you. (all) oooh. who's had chickenpox? scoot over. and look that nasty rash can pop up anywhere and the pain can be even worse than it looks. talk to your doctor or pharmacist. about a vaccine that can help prevent shingles.

>> john: we're back with more from the politics panel. finishing with donald trump and trade, this is a pitch to the sanders voters a little bit. does he have a shot there? >> not much. i haven't seen a poll that shows a wide amount of shifting that would go to sanders to trump. and anecdoteally, i've had interesting conversations. i remember two hispanic voters

in vegas. saying trump makes a lot of good points otd economy, but he's racist, so i can't vote for him. and for a lot of sanders voters that will be the issue. he's singing by song on the economics of all of this, but given his tone and style and what he's said about women and muslims and others, it's something they can't tolerate. i don't see it. i think what's more for him is a play for pennsylvania which republicans make everybody four years. it might succeed in getting closer. and in ohio, he realized he has to if he's going to win the electoral college. >> john: jerry, move to the vice presidential slek fultionz. donald trump, what is he do with a pick? can he pick some of the republicans with him? >> one of the things he's said he wants to do is use concerns

someone who can navidate washington. that's a wide definition. he get with mike pence, governor ever indiana, who happens to have been a long time tomorrow in the houserepublican party and well respected. you please the social conservatives. mike pences makes them comfortable and has washington experience. you can simply try to stay out of trouble, pick somebody safe. that's true of both parties. but i do think the trump short list, chris christy, newt gingrich, and mike pence is a light one. i have a feeling there's a name we haven't heard yet. >> john: molly, think about christy and gingrich. as jerry was saying, one option is to pick an option with someone who makes no harm. newt gingrich has a strong personality, donald trump

how does that work saying on the same song sheet given the problems with trump so far. >> we talk about it as donald trump's decision. unlike other years, there's a lot of people taking themselves out of consideration. you see chris christie and gingrich saying they can subordinate their personalitys to his, and both of them have been doing that. and showing that they will stay on his message, which can be a challenging message sometimes. we saw bob corker has been very strongly in the mix, and then was critical of trump sometimes. if you're not willing to tow the line every single time, you lose points in mr. trump's eyes. one more name i've heard about it richard burk from north carolina. he's been mentioned, but not as prominently. who knows, trumpou

and go a different way. >> and the guys mentioned have nothing to lose. gingrich isn't in office, and if it doesn't go well, he'll go back to private life. >> if chris christie wins, he can go back to being governor for a few years. and relatives and paid staff don't like him right now in new jersey. and burk is a good friend of john boehner, and up for a tough re-election. if he doesn't win his re-election, and doesn't win vice president, he'll do just fine in the money department. all of these guys, really, are top of mind, at least and don't have anything to lose, despite the fact they'll have to work with trump. and with chris christie and newt gingrich, at different times have had favorability mired in the 30s. they, like trump, struggled to

get undecided voters to like the ticket. >> john: if there's nothing to lose, that's why to go with pence? >> they haven't moved out. they are ahead of them or worryed to lose a critical seat. >> john: on the other hand, it might keep it harder to keep in mrien. jerry, donald trump is meeting with the house and senate next week to molly's point in terms of trying to fix the campaign. what can he do? mitch mcconnell said he wasn't a credibility candidate yet. >> part of the concern in washington is that the campaign doesn't feel wloel yet. i think you're going to see things designed to fix that. you're going to hear announcements of state directors to know there's an organization out there, and raise the numbers which they say are going to be pretty good. you're go to have a convention program that comes out and makes it look conventional convention that some people think. and i

have washington show up and hear them out. we have a campaign structure here. it's sound. it will get us from here to november. >> this is a critical week, john. the week after this coming one, from democrats start heading to cleveland to make sure now the convention mechanics will go. it brings back lawyers, guns and money. you're going to have a lot of that odd chaos, and the bad feelings about the whole thing. if he doesn't do well this week >> john: it won't camp down the restlessness? >> exactly. >> john: molly what about the vice presidental choice. what are the stakes there? >> i think there's a crucial signal that hillary clinton can sebd. we've heard she's veting the progressive wick of the part. tim cane from virginia, the state's

centrist, and perhaps a couple other names flying around. but you know, she really has not yet defined which tact she's going to take as a general election candidate. is she going to decide that she can go full blown liberal to bring in the bernie people and also because maybe that's where her heart is, and doesn't feel like she has to move to the center, or do the conventional thing and tacts to the center and tries to win some of the conservative leaning independents, moderates, maybe suburban voters who might have otherwise voted republican? i think the vice presidential pick is powerful in that regard. >> john:, thank you all very much. apparently helicopter has landed. we'll be back with senators ca main and graham. stay with us.

>> john: earlier this week, we sat down with mitt romney at a festival. we spoke about the impact he thinks trump trump

on the republican party and why he can't support the nominee. >> hour nominee is saying it's these mexicans coming across the border. by the way, more mexicans have gone home in the last five years according to the census bureau than have come in. but it's them, and it's muslims, and unfortunately, i'm afraid that the things that mr. trump has said have been unfortunately, branding of our party in a negative way, and one consistent with an image many people have of my party. so i think it's taken us in a direction which will be very unfortunate, long term. >> there are efforts to find an independent candidate. you said you would support an independent candidate. make the pitch why someone who believes in the tenets of conservatism, why they should run. >> well, i think it's

clinton or donald trump is the next president, so an independent candidate -- i'd love to see someone run who i can vote for. hillary clinton, in my view, is not an ideal person to be president. i disagree with her policies on a host of areas, and at the same time, as i've expressed, i believe on the basis of temperament and character that those are areas where i feel i simply can't vote for him. so on that basis, i'm going to either write in my wife's name who would be ideal president, or i'll write in the name of a third party cappedidate. most people will choose between those two. for people it's personal conscience. and i can't vote for either of those two people. >> john: we'll be back in a moment.

in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms. breo is for adults with asthma not well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. breo won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. breo opens up airways to help improve breathing for a full 24 hours. breo contains a type of medicine that increases the risk of death from asthma problems and may increase the risk of hospitalization in children and adolescents. breo is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on a long-term asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. once your asthma is well controlled, your doctor will decide if you can stop breo and prescribe a different asthma control medicine, like an inhaled corticosteroid. do not take breo more than prescribed. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ask your doctor if 24-hour breo

see if you're eligible for 12 months free at mybreo.com. >> john: for most of you, we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation", including more politics and our presidential panel. stay with us.

>> john: welcome back to "face the nation". i'm john dickerson. joins us is republican senators john mccain and lindsey graham. a bit of a delay, but thank you, senators for being with us. senator graham, i want to start with you. attorney general loretta lynch said she'll accept the fbi's decision on the e-mail server whatever it is. due feel the same way. senator mccain on the question of terrorism, in bangladesh overnight, and in iraq -- could the reverse set of terrorist challenges should the u.s. response be? >> t

have been a long time ago, not to withdraw everybody from iraq. now the president is on the verge of doing the same thing here in afghanistan, where things are not going well. and he's insisting on cutting numbers in half while the situation deteriorates. but what he should have done was to remain in iraq, and while al-queda went to syria and became isis, and now we see what we're seeing. what we need to do is go to iraq and kill them. you can do that with 10,000 of a hundred thousand contingent, take them out of where they are basing some of these attacks, and then the ideological struggle to defeat

this metastasizing affecting the middle east and the world. >> john: senator kerry said the uptick in violence is related to the pressure that is being put on isis. he says it's a sign they're being put into a corner. do you buy that? >> you know, we have made progress on the ground in iraq and syria, but there is no strategy to replace assad, and if assad stays in power, and the war in syria never ends, but the thing you want people to know is if you forget afghanistan, it's at your own peril. this is where 9/11 originated. the president is about to make the nost consequential decision about troop levels. mr. president, accept sound military advice. leave the 9800, make it condition safe, and let the next president, whoever he or she may be deal with afghanistan. se

levels in half. if you do, afghanistan is going to become iraq quickly. >> johnandulatealize the full u american military power. >> john: some reports it's dire. the government is in shaky state, and the taliban is making advances. for an american public that has seen 15 plus years of war in afghanistan, leaving the troops there feels like throwing good after bad. >> well, then that means we have forgotten the lesson of 9/11. those attacks came from, and that was a base here in afghanistan. we cannot afford to consign afghanistan to that status again. of course, if we leave, and these forces take over, then there will be

on the united states of america. by the way, there's going to be further attacks on the united states of america, as long as they have a base in sear ya, but then they'll have another base in afghanistan. >> john: senator graham, i want to ask you about turkey. a year ago a lot of analysts say turkey was turning a blind eye to isis. a lot of them went through turkey, and turkey was an enabler has one person put it. where is turkey in terms of the fight against isis? >> well, going in the right direction. give the administration credit for putting turkey more on board. but this attack in turkey is a greater problem that turkey was antagonistic toward israel. and now we have a new relationship between turkey and israel. that's a good sign. in afghanistan, dash or isil is going in capability. so turkey coming to the fight will help us in syria and iraq, but we don't have a

strategy to destroy isil. the next president will have to deal with that. what we're doing with syria is buying time. president obama is passing this on to the next president, and i hope to god we don't get hit in the united states from an attack from syria like you saw in turkey. i'm afraid that's going to happen if we don't speed up the demise of isil. >> john: senator mccain, lindsey graham mentioned the next president. would trump trump or hillary clinton -- donald trump or tril tril be better in handling those issues? >> i don't think either one of them have displayed the necessary strategy and outlook, the planning that and reliance on our military leaders that will be necessary to succeed. i hope whichever one is president, that they would call in the david petraeus and robber

individuals, both military and state department and dip plats who succeeded in iraq before the president gave it all away, who know what we need to do to defeat this threat militarily and diplomatically and other ways. either one of them should call them in and do what they recommend, and that way we can succeed, because america is still the strongest nation on earth. >> if i can add, john, i think both clinton -- >> john: senator mccain, you mentioned a number of advisers. i mentioned our advisers, have all either had serious questions about trump or -- i wonder why you're supporting donald trump given our reservations of the people you trust? >> well, as i said, i would support theom

party. i have strong disagreements, and we've just been through several of them, and that's my position. >> john: senator graham, would you just add what you were planning to before the time delay got in the way? >> i think clinton and trump both would have a condition based withdrawal from afghanistan. whether it comes to syria, and trump says it's okay for assad to stay, it tells me he has no idea what that means for the region. israel is in threat from iran, and iran is arming hezbollah with guided missiles, the trip to israel was unnerving to say the least. the syrian silv war is having an affect throughout the region. mr. trump, you need to rethink that. and secretary clinton wants a no fly zone in searia. that's a great step in the great direction. >> john: senators, thanks for being with us. happy 4th oly

july book panel. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. at bp, it's training and retraining in state-of-the-art simulators so we're better prepared for any situation. it's giving offshore teams support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. so everyone comes home safely. we're working every day at bp, to improve our training, our technology, our culture. "dougla

>> john: this 4th of july, we thought we'd delve in the history of a president and military leaders. joining us are arthurs of last of the patriarchs, thomas jefferson and the empire of the imagination. >> and

author of rightful heritage franklin d. roosevelt and the land of america. thank you for being here. annette. let me start wu. the complexity of these people, thomas jefferson seems to have the most complexity, and people are shifting their positions about him. start worry me, if you would, about the complexities of thomas jefferson, and how we should think about him, and also historical figures in general. >> well a great biographer describes him as six men rolled into one. it gives a lot of people something to think about. a statesman, a plantation owner, he wrote the creed all men created equal. and also the american creed, talking about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, it brings a complexity

people find interesting. arthur arthur herman, you say it was the last american hero. he had extraordinary victorys and failures. can it exist anymore? how could he have so much upside and downside? >> what you have to realize about him is the heroic image was self-crafted. very much, you have to remember a figure of almost from the 19th century when you think about it today, he -- those who talk about george armstrong custer, the way he crafts his trademark iconic image with the corn cob pipe, and the hats and the sunglasses. but also someone who -- this isn't true for everybody that they're writing about. he occupies no fixed point in the american hto

imagination. he's always seen in different lights and new ways and often revileed and often someone who celebrateed and revered. and this is part of macarthur's fascination. it's all the men that he embodied together into a singet portrait. i hope that's what i've done with this book. and macarthur is language overdue. f.d.r. was sometimes two different people between two consethative meetings. wasn't that part of his genius? everybody thought he was on their side. >> nobody knows what my left hand is doing compared to my right hand. he didn't even know. anybody who took a meeting with f.d.r. came out thinking they got what they wanted only to find out they didn't. he was an extraordinary politician. the key to understanding f.d.r. in my mind

sanctified landscape where he was born and lived has whole life. he always had a home plate. like thomas jefferson, he could give his energies and refurbished from going there, and roosevelt said, people think my husband is not an intlectual, but the truth is he has a math mind. he knew never county and backroad and creek, not just in new york state, but ail over america, that's how he was able to do the wpa and the civilian conservation planting trees and saving historical sites, the dust bowl, the great depression. the stock market crash. he saw it, and the nation of the farmers and the landscapes of america. >> john: jean edward smith, you've written about a lot of presidents, and you write clitically about george w.

in all the presidents you've studied. grant, f.d.r. and bush, talk about the decision making and the quality of a president. what makes a good decision making president and one not so good? >> i think the good quality is longing at all sides of an issue. and george w. bush did not? george w. bush came to office with a certain view, and became the decider. and cheney and his underlings in the white house. bush was making the decisions and bush came to a process believing he was god's agent on earth. with that view, you can get into trouble. >> john: arthur herman, macarthur was sure of what he believeed and got into crashes with presidents. h

the comparison of god as a figure. he is -- one of the reasons i have the subtitle, the american warrior. he's objects just as war with american foes but his own leadership, including in the army. including three presidents, hoover, roosevelt and truman. it's amazing when you think about it, because considering his eformous rise within his chosen prfltionz, the u.s. army, the fact that he is never able to restrain himself from telling superiors when they're wrong, and he thinks they're wrong, and he is grating nerves. it's an amazing career. basically he's driving his career through the army with the parking brake on. he's achieved things and been an amazing decisive commander in world war i, world war

and korea. he's amazing ability, and power of position. >> john: we'll get back to jefferson in a minute. >> to his point. f.d.r. could stand up with marketure. but he needed "douglas macarthur:american warrior". six days before macarthur died, he made macarthur the head of the pacific command. he tolerated somebody who annoyed him, because macarthur was going to win the campaign against japan in the pacific theatre. >> john: we're going to pause and be back with the authors in a moment.

taught him fios is not cable. we're wired differently. so we wired the wagner's house with 100 meg internet. which means that in the time it takes mr. wagner's to pour a 20 oz. cup of coffee, tommy can download 30 songs, and jan can upload 120 photos. 12 seconds. that's the power of fiber optics. and right now you can get 100 meg internet with equal upload and download speeds, tv and phone for just $69.99 per month online. cable can't offer internet speeds this fast at a price this good. only fios can.

>> john: we're back with more from our authors, i want to start with you issue the point annette was making about jefferson and slifry. it's a contradiction. where was jefferson actually? he was on slaves, and then he wrote about the freedom of men. what are we to think? >> he thought slavery was a radical injustice that must in time

his plan for that was that justice would be done by emancipating the slaves. so far, so good. but expatriating them, and sending them to a country of their own. the hard truth that we don't like to face is that the nation that jefferson was creating was a white nation. it didn't really respect the human rights, the natural rights of enslaved people. it could only be fulfilled elsewhere, and then they could become an independent people, a free and independent people. it's ironic that he uses the language of the declaration of independence where we talks about the ultimate freedom of slaves, but we will recreate them somewhere else and create a free and independent people. in other words, the independence is an assertion of nationhood, a

for enslaved people would be asserted by their white masters. >> he suggests there could be a multiracial people. he didn't have of the confidence that whites and blacks kds live together without conflict. and that's the problem we have. >> john: jean edward smith i want to go back to the question of presidents in general. written about presidents and generals. george w. bush, and his military, and building off the military and >> george bush was commander in chief, and definitely was commander in chief. this was a superior suboard natd relationship. and i think it's fair to say that the first two chairmans of the joint chiefs didn't get along. i don't think most americans realize it, but the joint

battle of command. it goes from the secretary of defense to it is commander. and the joint chiefs after the goldwater nichols act in 1986 were the chain of command, but they are the joint chiefs. they do command the army. so it's a very complicated situation. it holds true, xoept for general petraeus. i think petraeus and george w. bush -- >> f.d.r., what he did with the conscienceivation corps, how much -- remember barack obama and the shovel ready, it was hard to pass. and the stimulus, how hard was that for f.d.r. it do? >> he was governor of new york state in 1928, and did

unemployed army in new york state. he took that program, which was f.d.r.'s president program, weeks after his historically, we have nothing to fear inaugural and ending up hiring and paying a dollar day to young men at state parks and national parks and historic sites. he would push forward bringing the national parks and in the white house psh forward the memorials and generations dying off. many are in their 90s now, but they all have diaries now. they planted almost 3 billion trees from 1933 to 1942. then congress defunded it, and it was one of the most successful programs. there's a call now. can we do something for the young people? they have uniforms on, and

olympic or channel zu, lands or mammoth cave, everglades, smokys. the ccc had a big role in that. >> and they couldn't have done it without that. >> they needed somebody to run the camps for the young men and what would about organization and logistics. and the army when roosevelt turned to the war department to get them to help, there were a lot that said we're not going to waste our time with this nonsense. and macarthur said no it's an opportunity. in a period of time when budgets were slashed and the pressitage was at a low eb, this is a way to prove what we can do. sometimes people say it was a important requisite for the u.s. mobileivation of world war ii. that's not accurate. but it did help u.s. army officers, and reserve

and many unwilling young men to work together and to train and to perform these kind of very complicated logistical tasks all over the country. >> jefferson believed in the progress of the american experiment. >> it was led through dark times. what would he say now when everybody says the system is a mess. how did he retain faith in the evolution of things even in the darkest of times? >> because he had a scientific bent. he extrapolated from progress and science in progress in every day life. people always ask me about the challenge. i think he would be a little bit concerned about the anti-intellectualism that exists in the country today, and the sort of inward service that we thought we should be involved in foreign engtanglements. he did think

should engage the world. >> and let me say also that maybe we know too much. we're disenchanted and disillusioned. it's hard to believe in progress when we think we know everything, and the things that are emerging now are frightening to us. the recent progress is based on the few things you could know, i think his relationship to nature is crucial. these things inward with nature that god has a plan, and it will work out. and the sense of a destiny that combines, you might say, natural religion, and science into the future. >> f.d.r. had that too. >> yes. >> john: i have to pause. we'll carry on the conversation on the "face the nation" website. thank you all for being here and the continuing conversation. for the moment. that's it for us. we'll be right back.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ geico motorcycle, great rates for great rides.

it's a great day for an adventure. surprises are hiding around each corner. come chase thrills that lead in every direction. yet somehow bring us all back together. busch gardens williamsburg and water country usa. vacation packages start at $50 per person. a whole other world awaits.

>> john: we pay tribute this morning to nobel prize winning author and holocaust survivor. eli lost his empire family in a concentration camp. and the message of love is not hate. he protected genocide ashd the world. ezell was 87 years old. that's it for us today. thanks for watching. have a happy 4th of july. until next week for "face the nation", i'm john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access groupwg at bh access.wgbh.org

>> announcer: the following is a paid presentation for cize, brought to you by beachbody. this is the end of exercise. >> get ready to cize it up. [ beat drops ] [ people cheering ] are you ready to dance? 5, 6, 7, 8! >> ♪ on my way in i'ma take it ♪ >> stop exercising, people. it's time to start dancing. welcome to cize. >> announcer: cize is the all-new dance workout program that's gonna make losing weight fun and easy. >> to me, it's not even exercise because i don't want to stop. >> announcer: it's simple -- dance, have fun, and get awesome results. >> it's just like one big party turns on. it's so empowering. >> i spent many years of torturous exercises. cize, 45 pounds down easy. >> it's just fun. i think that that's the key, is that it doesn't feel like work. >> exercise is something you