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we should, right. we've done everything else the opposite. >> dickerson: is there any way to run a presidency and henry kissinger think maybe so. we'll talk about how his style could be an asset. plus former obama national security advisor tom donilon weighs in on the global challenges for the president and a new book on isis. and kellyanne conway discusses the transition and we'll have a conversation with ta-nehisi coates about the obama legacy. that's all ahead on "face the nation." good morning and welcome to "face the nation." i'm john dickerson. we turn to the president-elect senior adviser kellyanne conway. i understand you just got off the phone with mr. trump. do you have news you have to

looks to joining you in the future as the president in an interview. >> dickerson: we'll hold him to that commitment. late me ask you about the theory i've gotten from republican officials this past week. the theory is once donald trump clears the electoral vote on monday will drop the skepticism russia was involved in hacking the election. what do you make of that theory? >> the entire nonsense about the electors using the russian hacking issue undermines our democracy more than any other conversation and we were struck by the disagreement and consternation this week. have you josh earnest doing things from the podium as press secretary telling us

trump knew and president obama in his final press conversation refusing to go all the way and say russia has hacked into e-mails that went ahead and interfered with the election or shifted the election results. president obama knows how to win the presidency and he won in michigan by ten points. >> dickerson: sorry to interrupt but on the question of mr. trump is still skeptical the russians were even involved and whether it affected the election. you have the cia and fbi and a number of republicans saying it's clear the russians hacked. that's just as a basic premise is clear. mr. trump since late september has said he doesn't think that's the case and still says that now. what does he know that the intelligenc intelligence officers don't know? >> where is the proof and why did they

week and instead talking to the media. that undermines the national security and intelligence operations -- >> dickerson: does that suggest that's not the case? >> they received intelligence briefings i'm not privy too but if others at the top are serious about turning over evidence to we, the american people, they should do that and should show up in the house intelligence committee but that's a closed-door meeting. they should not be leaking to the media. if there's evidence let's see it. i would know president obama stopped short last week off what other pundits are saying and i'm sure they don't get intelligence briefings. we know hillary clinton and her team spent $1.2 billion and didn't see us coming and got help fro

still trying to fight the last war. it's over. this man is the president. >> >> dickerson: and we're trying to figure out how does the president-elect take in information that's interesting and volatile at the center of national security here. you have the entire intelligence community saying the russians were hacking the election leaving the question whether it has an effect and a president-elect dismissing that. does his entire team have the same view there is no merit to the idea the russians were involved? >> remember, you just said the word election. i have to push back. that's what everybody's doing. they're conflating whether they hacked into the e-mails and effected the election. i listen to people who don't know what they're talking about on tv and are not under oath and listening to the white house press secretary herself and hillary clinton is telling her donors that and they don't believe it.

graphics that assured them hillary clinton would win in the blowout. they weren't expecting it. i want to say something else i list enne listened to a different network this morning and there's pushback that president obama said i told vladamir putin to cut it out and he did the hacking stopped. it seems she's in disagreement and they wanted him to go further and we'll see what he does in the next couple weeks. >> >> dickerson: we're not going to get insight to the president-elect's thinking so let's try this, did anyone in the campaign have contact with the russians hacking the election? >> absolutely not. those conversations never happened. i hear people saying it like it's a fact on television. that is not only inaccurate and false and dangerous and

>> dickerson: do they agree with retaliating into russians hacking into the election? >> he respect what's the president needs to do in different arenas. it seems to be a political response because it seems the president is under pressure from team hilary who can't accept the election results. >> dickerson: you're saying the president is retaliating for purely political and not national security reasons? >> john, what i'm saying is the president-elect respects the right of president obama to do what he want. he's the president for the next several weeks. we believe in sanction work not sanctions for sanction's sake but it's clear president obama could have quote, retaliated months ago if they were concerned about this affecting the election. whatever his motives are or

americans. it doesn't mean president-elect trump will continue with it but when it comes to russia and cosiness it was hillary clinton through her foundation that bill clinton got $1 million to give a speech and let's be honest about who's for money and power and access has cozies up to the russians. >> dickerson: you're saying president obama's reacting because he's feeling political pressure. do i have a misimpression? >> no, what i'm saying is he is under political pressure definitely because you got people from team hilary saying something very different than what president obama himself is saying. they're disagreeing -- look, it's his legacy being question. >> dickerson: we'll have

leave it there. for analysis on the russian hacking story as well as the deteriorating situation in syria we're joined by tom donilon and cbs foreign affairs correspondent margaret brennan. on the one hand have you a president saying he'll retaliate against the russians and the president-elect doesn't believe the beginning premise that the russians were involved. what do you make of that pretty big comment. >> i was struck by kellyanne's comments as i have been by donald trump's comments for weeks and months and reluctance to do which is what normally happens in national security matters which is a unified consensus. the obvious thing for kellyanne conway and donald trump to say is i want a f

and the american people will know the facts. instead i did hear her say the call for covert retaliation against russia which president obama said we'll take action. i heard her say that was a political response. it's the opposite of saying we need to come together as a country and be unified. one more thing, in the whole crazy story the one thing we really do need to know is whether there is any kind of leverage russia has over donald trump. that's the question we couldn't really uncover because we never got the tax returns. it's crucial before he takes office not to attack him but to liberate him from any pressure. it's a really important thing. there should be bipartisan support for that. >> dickerson: the president said he'll retaliate against russia. what are are his options? >> it's important to lay down the predicates here and i want to get down to what david said the president used

yesterday the dni and the private firms have spent a lot of time in the area and they all agree with high confidence russia hacked and released the information in an effort in some way to effect the election and shut clearly be investigated and the investigation should put forward to the congress as they prepare to investigate to the american people what the facts are and to get under the issues of intent and try to come up with ways in which to facilitate efforts to prevent this from happening in the future. >> dickerson: i think this is by the way part of a broader effort by vladamir putin to undermine western institutions and confidence and to split allies. it's a broader strategic question that needs to be addressed here and that includes i think the shoring up of the western institutions. on the responses you asked me

of responses in the cyber and non-cyber area. the united states has a lot of leverage in the financial world and monetary world where it could act. it needs to consider these and there's a broad range of responses. >> i thought it was interesting because while i heard the same things you did from kellyanne conway they want sanctions that worknd republicans like lindsay graham are for calling on pressure and tightening sanctions and financial punishment and the problem is it's punitive not prohibitive and doesn't really counter the attack on the cyber front. it's merely a punishment. >> and there's an effort to get out with as much information as possible. i thinkt'

president intends to do and in 2008 president bush 43 and his chief of staff initiated a process we found very helpful and that was this, to bring the outgoing cabinet members in the national security area and incoming cabinet together several time in the situation room to go through key issues and establish facts and get a deeper understanding of the problems underway and the incoming administration will agree and disagree but it was a helpful exercise we were skeptical of at the beginning but the world looks different when you sit in the situation room with the predecessors and go through the fact. it's an exercise i would recommend we do in this case. >> dickerson: how does the president-elect take in new information that may be inconvenient because it puts a cloud over his election victory. david, speaking of facts and the

way politics play a role the president essentially said in his press conference they're think more warmly of putin whether do you make of that assessment and because president-elect trump has a warmer view of putin is there a shift >> i think republicans so mistrust barack obama that if he says putin is terrible they'll take the other side. the most powerful thing the president said in his farewell news conference was russian covert actions against us during the election season have been successful to the extent we're a divided country. we're a soft target. we're the ideal target because it's so easy to push us further apart. he was pleading on that as he has for several years to come together. this is the challenge for donald trump to save the country. we're too divided

assess russia's intintent. >> dickerson: i want to switch to russian. aleppo is a synonym for hell. what do you make of president obama wrestling with that. >> it was compared to the genocide in the 1970s and saying it's outright ethnic cleansing. president obama saying i do feel some reasonability as leader of the free world when i see this kind of mass killing particularly the images of children that deeply trouble him and also stepped back and said i don't have blood on my hands. that's iran and russia and the assad regime and went back to his argument that short of military and american boots on the ground there's nothing the united states can do. the white house is very

sensitive on the topic because keep in mind president obama's the first american president to say atrocities is a security issue and initiatives backed with no real leverage and secretary kerry characterized it as week diplomacy. >> dickerson: we'll be back in a moment. few people know as much as about foreign policy particularly as it pertains to russia as former secretary of state henry kissinger. we sat down with him in his office in new york. you have president obama saying he'll retaliate in some fashion for the hacking. president-elect trump is saying he's not sure the with uses did the hacking. how do you explain the big gap between the two? >> everybody has hacking capability and probably every

in the territory of other countries but who exactly does what that would be very sensitive information. but it's a very difficult to communicate about it because nobody want to admit the scope of what they're doing and i don't doubt the russians are hacking us and i hope we're doing some hacking there. it's a hostile view then then becomes an international problem >> dickerson: you met with vladamir putin a number of times. what do you make of him? >> he's a character. he is a man with a great sense of connection in connection to russian history as he sees i

he is a cold calculator of the russian national interest as he believes probably correctly there's unique features. so for him the question of russian identity is very crucial because as a result of the collapse of communism russia has lost 300 years of its history. the question is what is russia looms very large in their mind and that's a problem we've never had. >> dickerson: when we come back dr. kissinger gives us his thoughts on the president-elect. back in a minute. ng. even a rodent ride-along. [dad] alright, buddy, don't forget anything! [kid] i won't, dad... [captain rod] happy tuesday morning! captain rod here. it's pretty hairy out on the interstate.traffic is

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>> donald trump is a phenomenon foreign countries haven't seen so it is a shocking experience to them that he came into office. at the same time extraordinary opportunity and i believe he has the possibility of going down in history as a very considerable president because every country now has two things to consider. one, the perception that the previous president or the outgoing president basically withdrew america from international politics so they had to make their own assessment of the necessities and secondly, he is a new president asking a lot of

a-- because of the new questions one can imagine that something remarkable and new emerges out of it.sa i'm not saying it will, i'm saying it's an extraordinary opportunity. >> dickerson: do you have a sense of what his emerging foreign policy is? >> i think he operates by a kind of instinct that is a different form of analogies. it's more academic and he's raised a number of issues that i think are important. very important and if they're addressed properly could lead to big results. >> dickerson: you've advised presidents. one thing voters have said about donald trump h

able to surround himself with good advisers. is that really possible? >> the president has to have some core convictions. he can't get those from advisers but he also cannot possibly know everything. it's in the nature of the presidency from the people you meet and so to get objective advice is hard but under the personality of the president. >> dickerson: what advice would you give about being president in these time? >> one of the hardest things is to distinguish the routine issues that come through from the essential issues that effect the long term and not to let himself get sucked int

battles of the bureaucracy for marginal issues and keep him focussed and his mind clear on what the fundamental things are that he has to accomplish. >> dickerson: dr. kissinger. thank you so much. [♪] i talked to my doctor and found a missing piece in my asthma treatment with breo. once-daily breo prevents asthma symptoms.

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which may cause kidney problems. ask your doctor about victoza®. >> dickerson: up next we'll have our political panel stay with us. he gets a lot of compliments. he wears his army hat, walks around with his army shirt looking all nice. and then people just say, "thank you for serving our country"

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male vo: comcast. >> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation." i'm john dickerson. president-elect donald trump is looking for a simple plan for defeating isis within his first 30 days of taking office but the violent ideology continues to spread. joining us is graeme wood author of "the way of the strangers." you spent a lot of time with recruiters, sympathizers and supporters of the islamic state. what have you found? >> they're idealist. i spent time going to their club meetings, talking to them over

coffee, even playing soccer with them and first they're true rationality that feeds a belief in a utopian ideal and that tends to be an evil one but to understand them we need to figure out what it means for them to have come to that conclusion. >> dickerson: what is it like playing and you're right but playing soccer and having coffee with a person that by all exterior standards looks like a normal person but has the ideology that is so vicious and evil. >> they thought it would be permissible to cut my throat or standing anyone near us because we were infidel countries like australia, norway, the u.k. it's disarming to find you're with someone saying they can kill you but in the end it's fascinating. they're human people and people that like to read and serious

about theirig to explain where they got all that and to tell me what the prophecy said andy -- and why i should believe them too. >> dickerson: when you say cutting your throat it's not an idle thing. >> they're not kidding and in many cases they have acted on it not necessarily by killing someone by in one case trying to take a boat to islamic state territory and now being in jail because of it. >> dickerson: what's the biggest misconception people have about the islamic state? >> people misunderstand about foreign fighters in particular the range of motivations and backgrounds these people come from. they're missing something in their lives. there's a meaning they lack and i think people often think that meaning or feeling of lack is because they come from positions

of poverty or they feel rec often it's because they come from conditions of abundance. they're from rich families in some cases and they find that is not enough to give them meaning. they're looking for something more. often it's not poverty but wealth that sends people in search of that terrible goal. >> dickerson: how does the united states combat that ideology? there's the battlefield but is there a lesson in how to combat it? >> there's certain things the president-elect has nto know an the next stem is -- step is to understand what motivates them and it's a pathology within the hearts and souls of individual people who are americans, british, australian and it's not

ju g there. it's a problem within people's souls and that makes it much more difficult to solve. >> dickerson: dr. kissinger in an interview he did with jeffery goldberg of "the atlantic" said he thought isis may challenge the new president and hope for an overreaction. what is your thought? >> that's correct. in some ways i think they're operating at 100%. if they can act they will. they tell people don't delay just attack as it is right now wherever you are. it's important to realize when they attack it may not be a challenge within the borders of the united states. there's allies that donald trump has said he's looking forward to working with like egypt who have an isis insurgency within their own borders and overreaction can come also in egypt not just through policies of trump administration.

>> dickerson: what's the >> they've been saying about the trump presidency in particular it demonstrates muslims cannot have a home in the west. they must move to an islamic country. if they can see anything they can milk for propaganda purpose they'll feature that front and center. >> dickerson: 30 seconds left. michael flynn told al jazeera when you drop a drone you'll cause for damage than good. is that propaganda? >> there are some people for whom there is no solution other than dropping a bomb on them but it is an ideology people share and my book shares and exists in countries around the world and analyst hearts of people and drones aren't going to solve that. >> dickerson: graeme wood, thank you so much. we'll be right back with a look at president obama's legacy. stay with us.

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heart attack, stroke, and even death. or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. tell your doctor about bleeding, new or unexpected shortness of breath, any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. > on friday president obama gave his last news conference and reflected about his time in office. >> i always feel responsible. i felt responsible when kids were being shot by snipers. i felt responsible when millions of people had been displaced. there's places around the world

where horrible things are happening and office -- >> dickerson: he also went on to say i can say with confidence i can show you what works and where we were in 2008 and where we are now and you can't argue we're not better off. i'm here with ta-nehisi coates who has a piece in "the atlantic" next month called "my president was black." he's saying here's what i've done. does he face a different standard as an african american president. >> i would say through his eight years he was aware and people around him were very aware. if you look at the way he went about his campaign he's very conscious of it but also

uniquely else may not have. >> you said he walked on ice and never fell. what's that mean? >> i can't take credit. that's run dmc. >> dickerson: but out put it in that context. >> i did. i felt like the whole challenge of governing a country and dealing with the majority white population and thus being the representative of that population at the same time having your roots in a community which to put it mildly for long periods of its history had not been a ben fiseficiary of the py of the country is difficult spot to be in to be with and without at the same time. i don't know we've appreciated how difficult that was. i think as historians will go back over the period they'll begin to see it >> dickerson: you trace his unique place within that community you said he said

something person can that every president must, i believe you. what gave him the ability to say that? >> the president is unique. it's not just because he's biracial he had the combination but grew up far from the fulcrum and had a loving family his mom and grandparents who saw no conflict and affirming the fact he was black. he said his mom felt black people were cool and you can grimace at that or laugh but it's better than the alternatives and what he had was a community of white people that were close to him who loved him. as i said in the piece he saw

the best of white american in the most intim w a trust i think african americans were raised as i was and his wife have a much more difficult time demonstrating. >> dickerson: you covered him over eight years and he also wrote about the topic himself in his own book. what's your sense of his arc, his evolution on the question. he wrote a whole book praise before he was ever a politician. what's your sense of how -- if he were to write his book about the eight years what's the journey? >> i don't know he's changed. it's the first time you've raised it i've thought about it but i think the book is optimistic. the book does have this kind of measured tone that the president always takes. i don't mean in a divisive way but it's not a strident book. i think he is who he is. i don't know that he's changed

much since that time by the political opposition he faced when he came into power. does that alter any of his basic sense of american institutions or the american people? i don't think it did. >> dickerson: i was struck in his press conference he went back to hope and going back to what he said in a. -- a speech. you have the president saying that and michelle obama talking about not having hope and hope was at the center of the campaign. what do you make of that and the question of hope and he's still hopeful. is it necessary for politics -- >> yes, i think it was necessary for him and to break it up a little bit. the point you just made go back to the question you asked me about what was different and unique. i don't know, for instance the

president would say as the first lady says we're feeling what it's like and putting a spin on that and it could be as president. as a believer of american institutions. he doesn't believe it's his role to speak in that sort of fashion. part is there's something within him that angles him in that deeply optimistic way but at the same time he believes that's what the role requires so it's not much of an act for him either. >> dickerson: why do you think he wanted to talk to you at such length? to be fair -- i understand, does he feel he was misunderstand in the african american community and trying to make a case? >> no, if you said i've written things that are critical of the president and if you took the president's position and i've not been under illusion if you

take our positions and polled the african american c think he'd be 20/80 in his favor. he's popular among african americans. to be honest the whole time i was going through it i don't know why -- he could have picked somebody more in agreement with him and to be honest with you i think people were on his team felt that way. >> dickerson: maybe that's why he picked you because and where did you start when the conversation start and is it where you ended up and if not what did you pick up along the way? >> i was always amazed even when i was critical of him and the piece i wrote in 2012 he was the first -- not only the first african american president but the first president who could

credibly teach a course in an ri i wrote several pieces and he has an active mind you can see at work. it's difficult to tell when you write from a distance which is most my stuff until recently is whether it's sincere or an act and still maintaining the critiques i've had it's deeply sincere. he is who he is. and i had to come to appreciate that someone with my particular politics and critique of the country would probably not be president and i don't mean me, i mean somebody win -- with that question so it left you with the question do you want an african american president. >> dickerson: ta-nehisi coates thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> dickerson: an interesting piece. thank you.

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>> dickerson: and we're back with susan brownstein. susan, i want to start with you. russia, election, donald trump. kellyanne conway still seems to be defending the position donald trump doesn't believe russia was involved at all. what do you make of this story? >> i think the president-elect seems to be taking the attitude it's an assault on his legitimacy on his election and pushing back hard. i don't think there's any question he'll win the electoral college tomorrow and be inaugurated january 20 but that's the only reason i can think of for his stance on the conclusions of the intelligence community that russian hacked with the idea of affecting the election. maybe not every official endorses the idea it elect donald trump but there's an

emerging consensus that's the case. >> the other reason is he want to reset relations with russia and acknowledging this which is more difficult to acknowledge and they insinuated the president engineered the hack which is not true. i think it makes it more difficult to move policy in the direction he want it move and president obama has taken the high road as has donald trump. they've avoided criticizing each other and but there's incentive for president obama to put out as much as information as he can to create facts on the ground the next president will have to deal with. >> dickerson: i couldn't make sense of their comment that president obama was reacting due to political pressure.

do you think donald trump will send a tweet russians hacked? >> i don't know. there's been less difference between donald trump candidate and donald trump president-elect than you might have expected. the thank you tour. the themes of that were so strikingly similar to him as candidate still aimed at the 46% that elected him. if you look at the polling we've had, a variety of polls, puge gallop and he's not getting beyond that for an incoming president. he's still talking to his electorate. you would think he would because at some point it behooves to you acknowledge reality but i wouldn't guarantee it. >> dickerson: six in ten said tear not proud of the president

and he really hasn't done anything -- he's done t victory tour and somymbolic this but not to get to the unity he wants. >> the majority of americans did not vote for him and hillary clinton won a clear victory in the popular vote but that's not what counts when it comes to being president and this is the period period under his cone -- control to reach out to people who doesn't elect him. and the first poll after george w. bush 65% approval, 26% disapproval for george w. bush. now it's 48% and 48% and americans inclined as a people to say he's run the election we need to give him a chance. he's not benefiting in part because he's doing things like the victory tour which is

designed to rally troops. >> dickerson: do you remember the first speech george w. bush spoke from the well of the texas state legislature talking how he'd worked with democrats and the house speaker. a very different message. look at the cabinet appointees they're about unifying the republican coalition and while our focus has been russia you can point to the epa or energy we'll have plenty of domestic conflict after he takes office because they point to an aggressive move to undo much of president obama's agenda but and make structural changes in the programs that were not at the foreground of the presidential election. >> dickerson: let's turn for a moment to president obama's press conference. what did you make of it?

he's still trying to create space and ro a chance to president-elect trump. >> what role will president obama take after january 20. well he lead the opposition to donald trump's position to dismantle his legacy or step back as past presidents has done. one thing that struck me is how defensive he was whether he should have done more to publicize and push back on the russian hacks or defensive as you discussed on a panel whether he should have done more on syria and in his open statement saying i'm leaving the country in better shape than when i found it trying to make the case implicitly against donald trump's argument that everything is terrible. >> dickerson: and ron, what did you make of the president conference?

he also talked about the democratic party. >> i feel it's consistently going transition. he's both taking the high road and give donald trump a chance and laying the predicate to be more critical by being able to say, look, i gave him every chance and has said over and over again that maybe it will look different when your president and gives him more leeway to say if it doesn't look different there's a reason and don't forget in lima, peru he didn't rule out the possibility of being more visible. the democratic party faces an enormous challenge. they have a coalition that in some ways is a majority of the national level but it's not distributed in a way that allows them to easily control congress first of all and now win the electoral college. donald trump won the electoral college fair and square. democrats have to find a way to

talk to more do they have to turn out the new coalition they have which is more diverse and white-collar. i have to think there's going to be a lot of democrats looking at figures if not literally like joe biden who can talk to voters beyond the circle. >> dickerson: from scranton, p.a. what is schumer's life going forward? >> to align with donald trump on stuff like infrastructure he might agree with and which by the way has the subsidiary effect of dividing republicans i think he likes that but clearly the leader of the opposition. democrats are divided and need to decide who they are and develop a new generation of leaders but their clear leader at this point is schuck schumer

with the only -- chuck schumer with the only piece of leverage filibuster. >> dickerson: susan page, ron brow brownstein. thank you. we'll be right back. [000:56:09;00] yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ knowing where you stand. it's never been easier. except when it comes to your retirement plan. but at fidelity, we're making retirement planning clearer. and it all starts with getting your fidelity retirement score. in 60 seconds, you'll know where you stand. and together, we'll help you make decisions for your plan...

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♪ time to think of your future it's your retirement. know where you stand. >> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. next week we'll be here with stephen co stephen colbert.

set your dvr. for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. time running out for teams to snag one of those coveted playoff spots, baltimore ravens look to get back on track hosting the eagles today in charm city. good morning welcome to game on. the rain has just started to come down in charm city.