captioning sponsored by cbs the nation", the president takes a victory lap after the house passes his healthcare bill. will the public cheer or engineer? and will the senate go along?

>> nobody dies because they don't have access to healthcare. >> dickerson: what is next for healthcare reform? we will hear from budget director mick mulvaney west virginia democratic senator joe manchin will also join us, and we spent time this week talking with pennsylvania voters about the state of the nation. >> a word of phrase that describes the country right now. >> scared. >> tenuous. >> in deep trouble. >> conflicted. >> moving forward. >> dickerson: plus former secretary of state condoleezza rice joins us to talk about her new book on democracy. and whether it is being threatened. and we will also have plenty of political analysis. it is all coming up on "face the nation". >> good morning and welcome to "face the nation". i am john dickerson. we begin this morning with white house budget director mick mulvaney, one of the key players at the white house in getting the healthcare bill through the house. good morning, mr. director. >> good morning, john. thank you for having me. >> thank you for being here. if i get healthcare through

obamacare, what kind of promises does this house bill make to me? >> that it will actually be there. one of the reasons we are pushing so hard to replace obamacare -- bay by the way i was on it when i was on the house, i was actually on the exchanges, and one of the promises we are making to people is that the healthcare that we will be providing will actually be sustainable and be there. one of the stories i think that isn't getting nearly enough coverage is the fact that obamacare is already failing in places like iowa and i think even virginia found out this week they won't have coverage in some places. so one of the big pushes we are making is, we are going to provide a system that is actually sustainable and can survive and provide healthcare. >> dickerson: but of course people hear about the congressional budget office assessment of this house bill and when you say it will be there for them they think, well, wait a minute, the ceo said 20 million people will lose coverage so not there for that 24. >> i saw cbo score and you get down into the details on it, one of the things you see is that the cbo assumes that once the

voluntarily drop off of expanded medicaid, think about that for a second, the cb improvement is assuming getting to that 24 million people you get medicaid for free, but once the mandate that you take it is gone you will voluntarily give up that free benefit, it is just absurd and we have talked about it i think when that first analysis came tout cbo thought, really missed the mark a couple of years ago on how many people would sign up and miss, we think they will miss the mark again on how many people will lose coverage. >> dickerson: let's say they really miss the mark and only 15 million people that is still a lot of people still, did they really miss the mark by 24 million? >> compared to what? so much of the dialogue is compared to this ideal of what people thought obamacare was going to be and what they wanted so desperately it to be. the real thing to measure it against is against what obamacare really is. face it, people are losing coverage today in iowa, again for example, under obamacare, people have 100 percent increases today in arizona under

obamacare, that is the measure. no not against the ideal of what they thought or wanted obamacare to be. >> dickerson: so then is the final ending point we are at here basically people will lose coverage but just not as much as you think they would have lost under obamacare? >>, no i think what they will end up is a different type of system that is more state driven, one of the things i think you saw in the bill this week, as the bill sort of evolved was divulging more and more control to the state, when the first version of the bill came out a couple of weeks ago we did that extensively with medicaid, i used to be in the state government and we used to beg the federal government, give us more control over medicaid and give us the money but let us provide for our own people at the local and state level and our bill did that. and you saw a little bit more of that again as the bill evolved get giving more and more control to the state. >> dickerson: the president said he will not sign or support anything that doesn't help him voters. and here is an assessment from roy in "forbes", he is no fan of obamacare. but he writes this. yirls of low-income americans in their fifties and sixties will

market while millions of upper income that don't need the help get a tax credit, many adversely affected by the acha the bill that passed the house are trump voters that campaigned on insurance for everybody, so throw, he has a lot of others have seen older premiums will see, older americans will see premiums go up, and that seems to be a direct blow to a po promise the president made. >> i am not sure what version of the bill he looked at, for example as we went through the process more money was set aside to help folks who might be in that 50 to 65 brac, but face it, we are all sort of guessing right now because the negotiation is ongoing, the bill that passed out of the house is most likely not going to be the bill that is put in front of the president. the senate will have their chance to change the bill, improve the bill, negotiations will continue again so i think it is important we reserve judgment on what the president .. will or won't sig

know what is in front of him. >> dickerson: the president kept saying it is a good bill but it is incomplete is what you are saying. >> no, i am saying the senate is part of the government, this is a bill that passed out of the house, we are about the same age we remember schoolhouse rock and i am a bill and only a bill and we will go through that process, is it ugly, is it slow? yes but it is the right way to do it and that's the right way to handle the bill. >> dickerson: the president said we will have great health care for everyone in the name when we are done with the schoolhouse rock process will everyone be covered as the president covered in the rose garden. >> it will be better than under obamacare. >> dickerson: he said everybody in the nation, even obamacare didn't cover everyone. >> what we talked about before is the act societies it to, remember what obamacare gave you, it gave you insurance but not healthcare, a lot of folks who were technically insured either couldn't afford the premiums or couldn't afford the copay and that's what we have been driving at is giving people the care they want, the quality that they need, the affordability that they deserve, that's what we are talking

just insurance. >> dickerson: so but the president when he says everyone will have healthcare that sounds like a pretty simple thing to say yes or no that is going to happen. >> we will, we look forward to doing that. >> so everyone will have healthcare at the end of the process. let m menino ask you a question about this bill. should house members who passed it go home and have town hauls and campaign on it the. >> absolutely, without reservation, in fact i would be surprised if that is not exactly what they are doing. that's what i would do, in fact i commented in this last four or five weeks, i think it was four or five weeks since the health bill didn't come to a vote like we expected i sort of put my old congressman hat on and said i wouldn't want to go home and explain why we didn't vote on it, i would be exis a figure of going back and saying look this is what we did, this is the process, was it understanding snri yes, did we follow through on our promise to appeal in the house, yes, i think it is something that republicans should run to, not away from. >> the president this weekend on the budget question said that we -- we should have a good shutdown, what is a good shutdown? i

in fact i saw that tweet about two minutes before i walked in to do the press reports on the 2017 funding bill but here is what i think it is. i think the president is frustrated with the process in washington, it is broken, what we did this week is fine and passable but not ideal. the appropriations, the spending process, congress using the power of the purse has been broken here in washington for more than ten years, and i think a good shutdown will be one that can help fix that, as part of that overall drain the swamp mentality about washington, d.c., this president is willing to think outside of the box and do things differently around here in order to change washington. and if that comes to a shutdown in september, so be it. >> dickerson: okay. we will have you back in september and see if the lights are still on. thank you so much. >> no one thought the lights would be on this week, but they are, don't underestimate the president. >> dickerson: thank you. earlier we traveled to redding pennsylvania to talk to voters about the state of the nation,

philadelphia, the redding is part of a county that went for the president in the election. >> tom, your thoughts about the country's direction. >> last sunday on your show, president trump said that war is trump's trade, well, in my view, war trumps all of the other issues because if you look at the money that we have wasted trillions and trillions of dollars, donald trump has surrounded himself with military people, to a hammer, every problem is a nail, to a general every problem is a military strike. so from this perspective, and i am sorry to say i voted for president trump. because he made unequivocal commitments to stay out of syria, he said that barack obama's plans to launch an attack were unconstitutional and illegal, and he immediately does that on his own. >> i want to get your thoughts about the direction of the country. >> well, i thought over the last couple of years we were headed

i think a lot more people are being represented and shown more respect, particularly people, lgbt people and that kind of thing and at this think particularly now with the election of president trump it is, i don't think it is going to be that way anymore. >> dickerson: stu, suze a word or phrase that describes the country right now. >> scared. >> tenuous. >> dickerson: jerry? >> deep trouble. >> conflicted. >> moving forward. >> dickerson: dale? >> divided. >> dickerson: anthony? >> unsure. >> dickerson: fred? >> divided. >> dickerson: eliza. >> uncertain. >> dickerson: keith? >> divisive. >> dickerson: president trump said he wanted america first foreign policy. as a trump supporter what have you thought of his foreign policy so far? >> good. very good. >> were you a fan of his action in syria? >> i am not against it, so i think it sent a message, it is more of sending a message than what it actually accomplished. i think a lot of things that trump

he is a lot smarter than we give him credit for. >> dickerson: anthony, you vote ford president trump, what did you expect when you voted for him and what are you thinking now? >> well, me watching him on apprentice, seeing he was no nonsense, and him being our president now, he still has the same attitude where past presidents, problems overseas, they would take a slow approach like sending in troops on the ground and putting them in danger, where donald trump is, i am just going to blow you up. >> dickerson: barbara, what do you think is the best thing the president has done? >> oh i think the best thing he has done is freeway option for our military, to seek medical treatment elsewhere when they cannot get in with the va. i have three children in the military and they are affected by that directly. >> dickerson: dale, what do you think the president should

>> i think his focus has been on the media far too much. i think he comments on it the, on almost any interview i see. and i think he needs to realize that he is going to be a -- no matter what so just do a good job and then maybe they will report good things about him instead of him being so concerned about his image. >> dickerson: anthony, when he wakes up in the morning, what do you think the president thinks about? >> what is the best tweet that he can put out? [laughter.] >> donald trump is trying to turn america around the best way he know how. like he said his job is a lot harder than he thought because of -- it is not like running a business, where donald trump will fit more into a, will fit more into a king ship than a presidency and a democracy because when you are the

you make the rules and that's the way donald trump thinks. but when he became president, there are rules he has to follow, so he just can't do what he wants to do. >> dickerson: keith, do you think the president tells the truth? >> in his mind, yes. >> i don't think he intentionally lies, i think he sometimes has trouble with facts. i think we all have trouble with facts when we try to convince people of understanding our position. >> dickerson: eli is a, what would you like to see happen with healthcare? >> i personally want to see a medicare for all or single pair option, payer option, i think the polls are high among the american people we right now have the aca, the affordable care act for now, i mean, that at least needs to stay intact. what the republicans are planning to do right now is upsetting to me and many people because .. basically, it would take away healthcare for people with

you know, just out right deny, allow them to to deny or push premiums up. >> connie what do you think of the state of race relations in the trump presidency. >> there seems to be this rise in kind of people feel that they don't have to be civil and that they can do and say anything, because he has such a persona that i am going to do and say whatever i feel. i think people have taken a lead from that and are acting it out and feel that they have support in that, and i think that is an awful way to be. >> dickerson: and we will be back in one minute with more of our focus group and their thoughts on the democrats. >> the world of fast food is being changed by faster networks. ♪ ♪ data, applications, customer experience.

which is why comcast business delivers consistent network performance and speed across all your locations. fast connections everywhere. that's how you outmaneuver. but i was on the way to winning until a combination of jim comey tease leather on october 28th and russian wikileaks raised doubts in thmi

who were inclined to vote for me .. but got scared off. >> dickerson: that was hillary clinton speaking out about her loss to president trump. the liberals in our focus group had some tough talk when it came to the democrats. >> jack, what is the democratic party mean to you right now? >> well, the democratic party has, seems to be lost and the reason they seem, to me they seem to be lost because they let the republicans define who they are. >> dickerson: connie, if you were giving an instruction manual to the democratic party to get their act together what would you tell them to do? >> they have to define who they are and have a backbone about standing up for it and not be bought out by anyone or swayed because they think they might lose their office. they have to be willing to stand for it, if you are going to say i am standing for this, then you have to stand for it all the way. >> i have been a democrat all my life. i think the democrats not only are they out of

not interest, no interest in correcting the situation, and not go any postmortems, they are writing off, well, we don't own the white house because of putin or because of wikileaks, what did wikileaks tell us, by the way? regardless of who was behind it, they confirmed that hillary clinton and the democratic bhiment are liars, and had the thumb on the scale, you know, for hillary clinton, well, you know, what are they basically saying? if we hadn't been caught lying we would be running the country right now. >> dickerson: do any of you have a story that you hear about all the time? that you think this story is not important and i don't want to hear anymore about it? >> we will go with russia, okay? because that was one of the things that is driving absolutely me. i think russia has already been proven to not have had any impact on our elections, they did not, you know, drive from polling place to polling place and, you know, hood wink t

try to keep going on that, it really makes the democrats look a little desperate. >> dickerson: eliza, do you trust government can work in the best interest of the people, even if it is not where it is now? >> i definitely have faith in that we can get to where we need to go for the american people. i live in lancaster, pennsylvania, and just the outpouring of people who maybe didn't care about politics before and never really thought it mattered, people have come out to voice our concerns but also get active, get activated, get engaged, go door to door, talk to their neighbors, find out, hey, how are you feeling about what is going on? and do you want to make a difference? >> dickerson: have you all generally seen an up tick in political activity in your neighborhoods? >> yes. >> oh, yes. >> yep. >> dickerson:. >> since the election, has the shape of your congregation or the things you hear from parishioners changed, and if so, how? >> i remember sitting around the table the sunday after the women's march

different women sitting around that table telling me about how they have been to washington the day before and i was utterly amazed and pleased and happy. >> we are in reading, pennsylvania and what people out there may not know is reading is one of the poorest counties in the country, and it is where this, what this whole country is thinking about, the number one thing is jobs, the people in reading want jobs and that's one thing the democratic party always talked about in the past, they were supposed to be the party that represented the blue-collar workers, and now in the past election, we didn't hear anything about jobs, trump was the one talking about jobs, about, you know, the outsourcing problem, bringing back jobs. and i think one thing that the democrats are so out of touch with america about is that you ask democrats about jobs and what their solution is and they have two solutions, number one is raise taxes on the rich,

which honestly that does not create jobs. and number 2 thing they say is we need to raise the minimum wage, people in reading, pennsylvania and everywhere don't want no walk at mcdonald's their spire life, my dad told they when i was younger i wants you to get a good education and you don't need a $20 an hour factory job like i have and now people are saying $20 an hour factory job -- >> dickerson: what are your thoughts? >> empathy, that is the word that writes that brings all of this together, caring about someone else, caring about your party, caring about your town, carrying about what other people think, being civil, caring about getting good jobs, caring about the people that you are trying to help to raise up empathy brings us all together. >> dickerson: thank you all very much for being here. >> dickerson: @midnight an extended version of our focus group is available on our wee

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yeah. with help from hpe, we can finally work the way we want to. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. >> dickerson: we are joined by democratic senator joe manchin in charleston, west virginia, good morning, as a matter of seo pick up to on something mulvaney said, he said there is something called a good shutdown, what do you think of the notion of a good shutdown? >> there is no good shutdown, there should not even be the talk of a shutdown, john, basically we can do a cr orcs continuing resolution for one day, we can do it for one week, we can do it for one month, but we should at least stay there and get our job done, shutting itdown puts absolutely too much absolute the agony on people and it is just unamerican we shouldd not do that, we have been through a shutdown and it did not end well and it was not good for anyone and nobody gained a thing so

shutdown out of our vocabulary a and get back to working and staying there and getting our job done. >> dickerson: director mulvaney said this process that led to the agreement that kept the government open until the fall was a bad process. some people would look at it and say well the democrats got something and the republicans got something and that is not altogether a bad thing when there is bipartisan cooperation. >> well, they are just not used to bipartisan cooperation, ands is so far and few inbetween they didn't know what to do it the when they got it. everybody worked on something, we took care of our military and made sure that was a good effort by many people on both sides of the aisle but the republican, president trump pushed that very hard, that was something that was needed to -- and we did that. there was other things we wanted to protect, basically, the well-being of people basically who have been left behind, in my state of west virginia, a state that has done the heavy lifting for over 100 years, then the mining for energy of the country, made this deal, guns and, b g

defend the country and did it all and we have had a lot of challenges lately, especially with the opiate addiction, there are a lot of things that basically came out of this that was negotiated, it was a compromise, and that is something we should all be proud of. >> dickerson: senator, you mentioned the opioid addiction, there was a report that the white house is thinking in its next budget of largely zeroing out the budget or cutting 95 percent of the budget of the white house does czar, what are your thoughts of that? >> john, i would hope that that is not a serious consideration. this is -- this in any other sense of the word would be a pandemic. we have lost more americans, i have lost over 800 west virginians in the last year that lost their lives to opiate and drug addiction this is something we have to fight and make sure the fda does not put more product on the market that is needed, the fga is doing their job of policing it, basically we have dorks being more educated and not passing them out like

centers to take care of people and need to start education from kindergarten all the way through adulthood, we need to get involved and stop this epidemic that is going on that is just ravishing for the first time a lot of states have fall hen below the amount of working people, percentage wise greater than those who are working and that never happened before, when you fall below 50 percent of your folks that should be working that aren't working there is something wrong, it is conviction, addiction or lack of skill sets, we need attack, this john, and you don't cut 90 percent of funding out of the greatest epidemic we ever had. >> dickerson: senator we will talk to you in a moment after a this short break we will talk about healthcare and a few other topics 0 so stay with us, we will have more from senator joe manchin. >>

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and automatically deploying countermeasures. keeping the world of business connected and protected. that's the power of and. >> dickerson: and we will be right back with a lot more "face the nation", including our interview with former secretary of state condoleezza rice, and more from senator manchin and also our political panel. stay with us. >>

>> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation", we continue our conversation with west virginia democrat senator joe manchin, senator, what did you make of the healthcare bill that passed out of the house? >> i couldn't believe it. i really couldn't. from this standpoint. we are a state, as i mentioned before that has done a lot of heavy work for this country, heavy lifting for over 100 years. we have a lot of preexisting conditions, i have a lot of people that are elderly, every dynamic and every topography of my state gets absolutely slammed with this piece of legislation, so i said, the get rid of the word repeal, and start talking about repairing, if they can get rid of the word repeal, john, we can sit down, democrats and republicans could work through this, we know that this bill needs to be fixed, the affordable care act there is not a democrat that doesn't realize

market. but you are throwing the baby out with the bath water and adding insult to injury to giving $575 billion tax cut 0 the wealthy test americans while cutting $880 billion of services to the poor test americans if you want more synergying, synergy there is, said before, john, with we have given 20 million people healthcare that never had, never bought, don't know the value. we never gave them one word of instructions of how to use it, how to use it more effectively, how to use it more efficiently, how to keep themselves healthier, nutritional, lifestyles, changing their whole lifestyles, making them more accountable and responsible, there are tremendous savings, we are not trying anything, we are just throwing the baby out with the bath water in order to get a tax break. i just want to work and sit down and try to get something done, but no one has asked us, i understand that we have 13 republican senators working on revamping the bill f our congressional delegation says don't worry the senate will fix it and no one asked any democrat and i am

democrat willing to fix things if people want to do it but i can't do it with a shutdown, repeal, throw it out. >> dickerson: i want to move on quickly, senator, to the intelligence committee which you sit on. you have got ten some more information, the cia has given some briefings, is there -- what is your view on any pre, have you seen any proof and suggests any conclusion between the russians and the trump campaign? >> , nicol lucian? >> any, collusion .. there i an awful lot of smoke, people who may have said they were involved, to what extent they were involved, to what extent the president may have known about these people there is nothing there from that standpoint that we seen directly linking our president to any of that, but with the other thing being said there are a lot of people surrounding that, whether flynn, page, manafort, all of these people of high interest, we will find out, there is going to be done, and the senate as i said before is the workforce of this operation, the senate intelligence committee, when

carter page says he wants to basically be cooperating and all of a sudden we get another message, strange message saying, well if you want to know what is going on, check with the obama or president obama or his administration, that's not the way to conduct a thorough investigation, to get to the bottom to see if you had, you know, any concerns that we might have of your involvement with the russians. we know the russians did everything they could to be involved in our campaign. we know that what they are doing around the world right now, whether it be in france or other parts of the world, they will do anything they can to disrupt any type of a dream, if you, will or a democracy or an involvement where there is morally a transfer of power, that's not for them, they will do what they can and we have to make sure we stop it. >> senator manchin, thanks so much for being with us. and joining us now is former secretary of state condoleezza rice. she has got a new book out, it is titled "democracy: stories from the long road to freedom." welcome, madam secretary. >> thank you.

you hear here. manchin was talking an russia and i will start there, help americans who heard all of the political talk of russia, how should americans think about russia and america's national security interests? >> well we have to think of russia in terms of the last several years under vladimir putin, and i think what we are seeing is the president of russia who has established authoritarianism at home and aggressiveness abroad, he really believes he is re-establishing russian greatness, that he has russia back in the game. but the most important thing is that he hasn't seemed to respected certain lines in going that, and the most important thing is to re-establish that the united states is going to defend its allies and nato under article 5 of the -- an attack on one is an attack on all but the the united states will not countenance the russian military threatening our forces by flying very close to our ships or to our planes, i think rebuilding the defense budget has helped to send that signal and by the way, the strike

to send the signal that the united states is going to get leverage back in the middle east, and so this is a dangerous time with the russians but it could also be once we have established the ground rules, there are many things we need to cooperate cooperate with the russians on including the most vexing problem of north korea, where they too can't be too confident by a reckless north korean leader with missiles and nuclear weapons that can reach russia as well as eventually the united states. >> dickerson: i want to get to north korea in a second but you write in your book about russia being a tide tied that went deep into europe when it is powerful and receded when it is weak. where is america in terms of breaking that tide? is it halfway there? a quarter of the way there? >> we always hoped the russians would see built on respect that comes from economic power and soft power but unfortunately, it has turned to military power, again, to establish itself, and i don't think that we have begun to say to the russians, for

instance, what president obama did to put forces in the balance tick states and in poland, that was a good message to the russians that certain things are not acceptable. the strike in stir i can't was a good message, but we need to continue to send strong messages about ukraine and other places that we are not going to countenance a russia that is aggressive against allies and states that shouldn't be threatened by their neighbors. >> dickerson: on north korea, what should america not countenance? what is the tipping point for .. a lot has happened in the last several a years, there is now a different regime that even under kim jong-il the father, kim jong-un is reckless, maybe even a bit unstable. he has made improvements in his nuclear capabilities that look as if he is getting closer to a deliverable nuclear weapon and perhaps and i don't know what they are telling the president, because i don't have the intelligence, but three, five years the ability to reach the united states, that c

countenanced by any american president, i don't care who is in the white house. in order to deal with that you have to change the chinese castle cluck and, calculus and i think that is what the administration is trying to do, they worry most about the collapse of the regime and their long border and instability on their border but you have to say to them, even if you have to take very tough steps that might ultimately collapse the regime you have to take steps because we will, if you don't, and i think that is the message that you are starting to see. >> dickerson: in your book, you are making the case for democracy. we have a president who talks about america first, we have a lot of americans who are wary of u.s. entanglements overseas, make the case for democracy to those who would be in the more, hey, let's just not fuss with the overseas stuff. >> well, the first thing is to remember what democracy promotion is not, it is not what we did in iraq and afghanistan. those were security issues that we felt we had to solve, and then we said,

overthrown the dictators we need to give those people a chance toward democracy, but most of democracy promotion is really about supporting those within their countries that want to have simple freedoms that we have, the right to say what you think, to worship as you please, to be free at that the knock of the secret police at night, places like liberia and the ukraine and other places that are trying to get there. now, americans should recognize that, of course we are going to defend our interests, but in the long run our interests are better served when we have democracies that don't hire child soldiers, that don't harbor terrorists as a matter of state policy. that don't traffic in human beings that don't start wars with one another. the quintessential example of this is that we took a risk after world war 2 that a democratic germany would never threaten its neighbors, that democratic japan would never threaten its neighbors and now, not only have they not threatened their neighbors, they are firm allies and they are

stability. democracy takes time. one of the points that i make in the book is, it took a long time, that first american constitution, that first american constitution didn't provide my father the right to vote in 1952 in birmingham, alabama but i took an oath of allegiance to the same constitution as a black woman secretary of state with a jewish woman supreme court justice swearing me in, democracy takes time and we have to be a little bit more patient and a little bit more helpful in speaking out for those who are still trying to get there. >> dickerson: let me ask you about that, because president trump, whether it is erdogan in turkey or al-sisi in egypt oar putin in russia, the sound of freedom does not seem to come often in conversations with him, is there a cost for that? >> well, i think it is early in the the administration, there is something about the presidency that you recognize overtime that the president,

responsibility but the weight that it carries, and of course we are going to have to deal with the president of egypt and of course we will have to deal with the president of turkey but it is well to remember too that our interests and our values suggest that when countries that we have good relations with and want good relations with actually reform before there are revolutions our interests are served too. and i think that if the united states, democracy promotion actually is very often not very expensive. it is supporting elections, supporting the building of civil societies, supporting a free press abroad, so i have no problem with the president meeting with those leaders, he has to. but we always need to speak for our values as well, and our values are the belief that we were endowed with certain rights by our creator, it can't be true for just us and not for them. >> dickerson: final question, is this president like all presidents is bristling against the constraints of democracy that you write a lot about i

here, that has caused him to say critical things of the judiciary, of the press, and of congress and the pace with which they work? how does that play for other countries that say, you see, you have got a mess since over there, messiness over there, don't tell us how -- >> the presidents get to be presidents and the founding fathers put all kinds of constraints on the president and congress and courts and civil society, a press not to mention americans is sort of ungovernable anyway and it can be sort of frustrating but i think when i talk to others they say it is also the safest when the executive is actually constrained that, is the what the founding fathers understood. they also understood that democracies are not perfect. we are imperfect, but our message to the world, in many ways our best message no the world is that you just get up every day and you keep working to overcome those imperfections and when you do that, you get a chance to enjoy these amazing liberties and so i am very grateful to the founding fathers for havi g

institutions. i hope we can encourage others to have the same. >> dickerson: secretary rice, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> dickerson: and we will be back with our political panel. >> ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. except that the next morning... it all makes sense. fedex powers global e-commerce... with networks built over 40 years... that are massive... far-reaching... and, yes... maybe a bit magical. ♪ visit fedex.com slash dream >> dickerson: we turn now to our political panel, susan page is the bureau chief of usa today, michael gerson is "washington post" columnist, nancy correspondent, for cbs news, and jamelle b

slate's chief political correspondent, i want to pick up on condoleezza rice with whom you worked, the threat to democracy all over the world now and is a big story and it is taking place in france in the election today. >> yes, it is true and american policy in europe, for example, has been democracy unit for seven decades, there is a reason for that. because in every country you have a conflict between identity and i'd idealism and nationalism and transnational ideals, and in the 20est century all the boston events of the 20th century took place because of the tribe of identity over idealism in europe, so i think there is a very direct interest that everybody has in the outcome of these kind of debates. >> dickerson: what are you watching, jamelle, in the outcome of the french election that americans may care about? >> i am watching to see how well le pen will do in today's elections, i think the convention wisdom is

micron will fall short of winning the election, but getting to the second round, its share of the vote, those are very significant events for french political history and it will be a sign perhaps of infant politics in european politics whether le pen does, as the polls suggest, are better. >> dickerson: nationalism he was talking about, susan page, back here in america, healthcare, the winners and the losers from that, from the house success? >> so i think paul ryan and donald trump are big winners, big losers, paul ryan and donald trump, the polls are saying this morning they failed to get this through the house it would be devastating politically but when you goat the substance they now own the american healthcare system and you heard the budget director and other administration officials and the president making promises they will not be able to keep, that everyone will be covered, that premiums will go down, the deductibles will go down, that people with preexisting conditions will not lose any of their protections, th

happen. >> dickerson: nancy, it came together fast, it felt like. >> it did. >> dickerson: give us a sense of what the process tells us about where things stand. >> well they had to strike when the higher was hot, they couldn't let the members go once they thought they had the numbers so you first had this compromise between a moderate member and conservative members, that seemed to bring a lot of the freedom caucus on board, but left a lot of moderates steaming mad, they felt some of those protections susan just talk about had been he eroded in, along comes fred upton with another amendment that puts more money into preexisting conditions, and that gave some political cover to these moderates who felt that the bill was never going to be perfect in the house but they just needed to get it out of the house, get it to the senate, you know, to fulfill a big promise they have been maybing for the past seven years that they would repeal obamacare. >> dickerson: what did you make november the ceremony in the rose garden you know white house ceremonies what did you make of it? >> i think it is the a victory dance on the 50-yard line and when you do that that is not a

papa pathetic desire for praise so i think it was premature and the house is really relying on the senate to come through here. they put out something that did meet all of those standards of the members, but was not coherent in the end. i think depending on the senate led by senator alexander to provide some coherence in the republican approach. >> dickerson: now, there are plenty of hurdles among republicans in the senate, this is a republican show over there, what are the hurdles? >> that, the hurdles are medicaid, right? that quite a few republican senators want to preserve some measure of the medicaid expansion during recess earlier in the year, there were many angry town hauls involving constituents who wanted to preserve the medicaid expansion and the house bill cuts hundreds of billions of dollars from medicaid and although the budget director suggested that there would not be any conk losses as a result of those cuts, that the

people will lose coverage as a result of the medicaid cuts, so one major hurdle is what the senator senate is going to do about medicaid and how will senate republicans deal with the fact that many of them come from states where large number of the constituents picked up coverage from the medicaid expansion. >> and there is a hurdle that is preliminary logistical republicans can only afford to lose two of their members in the senate and it is very hard at this point to envision a bill that would satisfy rand paul and ted cruz and susan collins and lisa markowski, both susan collins and rand paul said this week the house bill is dead, but for completely different reasons. he thinks it leaves too much of obamacare intact, she thinks it takes too much of obamacare away. how does the senate craft a bill that satisfies these two wings of the party when you have this incredibly small margin of error? >> of course we should remember democrats faced big divides when they passed the affordable care act as well, and when you deal with something that is as big and complicated as the american healthcare system, you

accepting things that they start out thinking aren't acceptable. the thing that republicans have going for them is that they have been, have made this promise for seven years as they said and there is a big impetus to deliver on it, and i don't know if they will be able to deliver on it or not but there are going to be huge consequences for delivering or not delivering on it and that may be the best argument that republicans have going forward. >> dickerson: michael, what do you make of the president, his signature talent he said he would come to washington and be pa negotiator of a kind no one has ever seen before, assess his negotiating in this case but also in what he has to do in the senate process. >> well, it was a unique view of the presidential role, usually the president will come in with some of his own ideas and try to sell a bunch of people in the congress on them. he did not do that in this case. all he wanted was a bill passed. the goal was something, not something with these parameters. and so i think that is very different than presidents have done in the past. >> dickerson: jamelle, democrats are running ads now

they are -- they raised a lot of money, sort through the politics. are they right or are they a little premature here? >> i don't think they are too premature. if the american healthcare act passes in one of its forms -- would say what the house voted for, all of a sudden millions of americans will once again be open to a scenario where their insurers charge higher rates for preexisting conditions, so it may be technically true the bill doesn't deny anyone coverage on the basis of commissions it is certainly true that people will suddenly no longer be able to afford their coverage, and that is a very potent attack on it. i want to go quickly to something the susan said, it is totally true during the affordable care act fight there were big divisions among democrats about how much they were going to spend for coverage and so forth but there was one unifying principle, everyone in the democratic party agreed that the government had some fundamental responsibility to the public for health insurance, and that agreement doesn't e

that is the sticking point, and a tough thing to get around. >> if it is passed in the current form there will be a political problem for republicans, the senators can have aids run against them even if the plan goes nowhere and we know there are 23 seats held by republicans in districts that hillary clinton carried, those are going to be the prime target force the next 18 months. >> and the disinteresting thing about these ads a is not just the damage they could do in advance of 28 a teen which is still 18 months away but also to extend a message to senate republicans, look at the kind of heat you are going to get if you put together a bill that hurts medicaid, that hurts people with preexisting conditions, there are 24 house republicans who are going to start facing those ads tomorrow, and even a more facing radio ads in california. this is designed to, you know, to pave the way for 2018 but even more so extend a message to senate republicans who are getting -- >> in an odd way this is a i can victory of president trump, he has

inform the american people about preexisting condition and universal coverage and about costs, affordable costs that are not going to be met by republicans in this cain .. they were really not net by obamacare either when you had higher premiums and deductibles at the same time by the shame people, but these expectations are now ingrained and you wonder, what is the road .. that doesn't keep us from going to single payer, incidentally given knows assumptions? >> that a is the essential thing because for a lot of liberal democrats and for a lot of democrats on the left, obamacare was a very -- compromise and this middling path they took because that's what a they thought they had to get toward universal coverage and it is clear the republican party will never accept any kind of compromise on this, so i think for the democratic left there is a new argument, right, that next time we have power, why not go for medicare for all? what are the practical reasons not to do it? what are the political reason not to do it and i

house republicans how they got this bill through, why do we have to go through all the rigmarole we did this last time if the republicans didn't? and i think the gop opened itself up to perhaps a backlash it may not be anticipating policy wise. >> dickerson: the freedom caucus, the conservatives in the house fought and got what they wanted from this, from the house bill. the senate bill will come back to them, maybe. >> right. >> dickerson: why are they going to agree to a bill that got more moderate when it went over to the senate? >> there is no guarantee guarantee they will. the senate will have to make a calculation at some point, who o are we trying to win over with this bill in the house? is it going to be the freedom caucus or is it going to be the gop moderates? >> you know, they can board to lose members of one group but probably not both. and so, you know, that is going to be part of the political process here. not only how do we win over susan collins and i will is a markowski or rand paul and ted cruz, and probably at some point they will have to go in a

one of those two wings unhappy, and it is going to play out the same way in the house. >> dickerson: we are going to have to go in a direction toward the commercials, thanks to all of you and we will be back in a moment. >> i don't work for planned parenthood. i work in one of two federally qualified health care centers in anchorage that accepts medicaid. our clinic is bursting at the seams. we are always full, and we go through periods of time where we are actually so full we can't accept new patients. being able to refer those people to planned parenthood and know that they will also be taken care of there is a huge resource. without planned parenthood, these patients would have nowhere else to go. i'm an alaskan doctor, and i stand with planned parenthood.

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>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. next week we will hear from former secretary of defense robert gates. for "face the nation", i am john dickerson. >> ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ the toothpaste that helps new parodontax. prevent bleeding gums. if you spit blood when you brush or floss you may have gum problems and could be on the journey to much worse. help stop the journey of gum disease. try new parodontax toothpaste. ♪

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