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and back in the present our analysts will catch you up on what you misunderstand week and look ahead to the end of the year sprinted in congress. all ahead on "face the nation." good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. most of our post thanksgiving broadcasts will dean voted to discussion on leadership in times of crisis. but we begin with the news. president trump system winding up a five-day trip to his palm beach club mar-a-lago where he played golf with tiger woods and dustin johnson and wished u.s. troops overseas a happy thanksgiving. before he left he spoke with reporters and said that he is supporting alabama republican senate candidate roy moore. >> can an accused child molester better an a democrat? >> he denies it. he says it didn't happen. and, you know, you have to listen to him also. you're talking about he said 40 years ago this did not happen. >> dickerson: minnesota democrat al franken responded to

allegations that he touched women while taking photographs with them. i feel terribly that i've made some women feel badly and for that i am so sorry. and i want to make sure that never happens again. we will hear more from senator franken later today. his office tells us that he will be doing interviews with wcco-tv our cbs affiliate in minneapolis as well as minnesota public radio and minneapolis star tribune. congress returns to washington this week in addition to dealing with new claims of sexual harassment against house democrat john conyers they face a daunting to-do list. with three weeks left before the holiday break. government funding expires on decemberth so the government will shut down unless an agreement is made. senate must decide by december 14th whether to reinstitute sanctions against iran, lifted under the iranian nuclear deal. funding has expired for the children's health insurance program and the money to cover efne million children will

of the year. so will the authority for key surveillance program used to combat terrorism. then there's that enormous tax cut package that the president wants passed by christmas. and congress needs also to pass the hurricane relief bill to help those affected by this year's storms. and with all that have on the table we turn to our panel, susan page is washington bureau chief of "usa today." reihan salam the national review and jamelle bouie the chief political correspondent for slate and cbs news contributor. susan i'll start with you, roy moore, the white house distance hill self at first now the president is all in he tweeted this morning, against roy moore's opponent, what changed? >> i think the president sees some parallels perhaps with his own situation, he was accused of sexual misconduct he won the election anyway. he would very much prefer to have republican vote in the senate rather than a democratic vote. this will be a big test for voters

personal versus political, politics of alabama say any republican will beat any democrat but we're at a moment in our country's history where there is attention to the personal behavior of powerful men and that might turn this election we just don't know. >> dickerson: jamelle, there s maybe a split, maybe there's not a split but there appears to be split between the president who would -- who doesn't believe that roy moore's 'excusers and senate republicans including mcconnell and mike lee, other senators who have looked at the evidence, looked at responses from roy moore say we believe the accusers. do you think that split matters? what do you think happens with that split? >> i think that's what matters in terms of what happens if roy moore wins. if moore ends up prevailing in? contest, senate republicans, as you said stated they believe the accusers have, both harsh words, not so harsh words condemned moore will have to deal with the fact that they now have an accused child molest

caucus. i think there will be serious pressure to expel him from the senate as a result. that is a direct blow to their attempt to get through this busy december to, advance their 'general d. then major political weight for the entire party. i'm not sure that president trump is necessarily looking at this a couple steps down the road i think he's very much focused got to get a win, i got to get a win. once you just back away a little bit, having moore win and then come to the senate presents just a whole host of political problems that will not be easy to deal with. >> dickerson: and cultural ones, this moment we're trying the figure out whether the culture enables, the questions reihan, whether the voters of alabama are enabling that kind of behavior which to say, somebody gets accused their party rallies around them it covers over the okay could you sakes. >> it's very important to keep in mind that in the case of roy moore this is the case for donald trump and hillary clinton

voters. votes for their candidate on the basis pretty much of negative partisanship. thought that the opposing candidate would be such a disaster, if you look at doug jones it's very striking that here you have a candidate who is not a classic conservative southern democrat. as very mainstream democrat who has positions on, for example, abortion rights, much else. the fact that he is as competitive as he is right now, actually tells you quite a lot about the state of the republican brand, particularly the state of the republican brand among middle class, upper middle class, college educated alabamaian voters. the fact that it's quite possible that heel win the election speaks to the general weakness of the party. you think that the party membership alone would be enough to carry even someone like roy moore through given the climate of extreme negative partisansh partisanship. >> dickerson: what are the democrats looking like in alabama? are they going to rally? undone by this? these allegations or is that -- might they not turn

democrats are going to be energized especially african americans in alabama. that say think a bit of dill policemen ma for doug jones, if you brought in barack owe bam month to rally african american voters do you repel some of those republicans voters who don't want to vote for roy moore but have been long opposed to barack owe bama. that's one of the complicated factors here. >> dickerson: al franken will speak later today, new accusations against him. the question being whether democrats lose standing to speak on this issue if they don't deal with their own. we also have john conyers, a long-time democrat in the house, had an accusation come outed, how do they manage this issue? >> it's clear right now that democrats are trying hard not to manage this issue, not to bring pressure on either conyers or franken. my sense, their credibility on this issue depends on being able to stay a strong stance on it. even if the details of,

franken's incident are sort of -- in order of magnitude more than what roy moore s. to show the public that the party is taking these things seriously. and in the case of franken it's not as if there were pressure for him to resign that they would be endangering it. politically this doesn't seem -- isn't a direct threat to their minority or future majority. my view that democrats really should take the lead on this that it does not reflect well to be so hesitant to put pressure on. >> you know, his offenses aren't as serious as roy moore, built they're just so stupid. he's a u.s. senator, he's groaning women at the state -- what was he thinking, no longer comic at this point. in a way, it's easy for democrats if al frank sen forced to resign which i think not

not only would he likely be replaced by democrats he'd be replaced by democratic woman given the very strong ranks of women in men politics. >> it's also through, however, that minnesota is a state trending republican over time. virginia becomes more democratic that's partly because of domestic migration. same reason why states like minnesota, pennsylvania, what have you are becoming more winnable for republicans. the next election for his seat will be in 2020 that's fair bit of time. the jerks does the party matter more than al gang wren's owe own survival. roy moore's case it's very clear that he has not the best relationship with the republican party and republican establishment, right? there it kind of makes sense that he's quite happy to wage war on all the republicans calling him to step down. al franken cares about the health of larger progressive movement and democratic party and it's very clear that he is a lot less popular than the next at-bat democrattish that state. >> dickerson: move on to polic

jamelle, when they return tax cuts to the central question, where do you think that conversation stands on rees to get this passed before the end of the year? >> i at the moment, republican tax bill coming in fair amount of criticism for its expense, sheer cost, that these tax cuts will end up adding huge amounts to the federal budget deficit. i think that there are some republicans who are -- have begun to voice their concern about that fact. susan collins has that she's not happy with senate bill stands right now. i think if there's a path to this happening, it's going to resolve around sort of finding ways to -- much frankly like the health care battles earlier this year. finding ways to assuage those handful of senate republicans what are not entirely comfortable with either the

policy consequences or the potential political consequences. >> dickerson: susan, what do you think? are these real blockage getting passed in the senate or be dealt with? >> i think what the amazing thing is, it's still alive in the face of like 25% puck support and no actual coherent tax plan of the -- house and senate agree on. has not really been any republican senator, ron johnson express interested concerns but more like a bid to buy him off with something. i think it is possible that they pass the tax bill. i think that is remarkable. >> dickerson:ideologically, how does it match between the trump view and traditional republican view? >> it's a very awkward marriage of the two. on could argue that they learned one lesson, half of lesson from the populous moment, that lessons it's knock we tax affluent blue state professionals. but with that revenue that you gain fred taxing those folks, they have wound up giving in the form of corporate tax cuts rather than in the form of tax cuts for ler

working class households. that is a very odd lesson to draw from the moment. however, there's another side of this. which is that lot of people argued could you have done this in bipartisan way, i that i very, very unlikely. speaker of house knows that you need complete clarity on. that if you had had some democrats cooperating, that would have muddied the issue for democrats, this is always going to be something owned by republicans and that's why they should not have gone so far in my view on the corporate rate cuts, because they're still going to offer a better deal to those constituencies, to put it crudely than democrats. and really this was way of winning over trump and it's not clear that trump has a good sense of how the politics of this ought to work. it's not clear to me that what has real appetite for 20% corporate tax rate that they're going to the polls on the basis of 20% corporate tax hike. >> dickerson: i'm going to end with philosophical question. there's a lot of things that get covered but stuff that doesn't get covered in these periods. i wondered if each of you have an id

noticed has been happening that deserves more attention that's out there, susan? >> one of the things we talked about on this roundtable is how the republicans have unsuccessful in delivering anything since winning unified control of the washington capital. if you look at state capitals, republican gainsf look at hot button issue like abortion republican state legislators have managed to pass stands on abortion spin circumstances just in the last six months since the last election in five states bans on abortion. 11 states major ref visions on abortion in three states, new restrictions on funding for planned parenthood. gridlock that affected washington has not affected state capitals and the republicans who have made the gains. that shows the importance of the mid terms next year not just for congress forestate legislators. >> the composition of alabama, their enthusiasm for virginia election there's lot of talk about

lost in these conversations is the very real fact that efforts at voters suppression is ongoing in this state. efforts to restrict access to the ballot. then on federal level, it is simply the case of president trump cabinet members who have been remarkably successful at turning the justice department's mission away from its charge of defending the super rights of americans. i think that's going to be under the radar in our sort of focus on whatever the president is saying on any day. >> dickerson: reihan? >> one of president trump's unique contributions, the night states ought to take more strategic approach to trade. these been arguing over 30 years. yet there's a real possibility that his tax reform, the one that he's endorsed will actually widen u.s. deficit will put the u.s. trade sector in more vulnerable position that moving to territorial tax system something that will actually

production and much else, there are two elements of the trump message that steam to really be contradicting each other, the question is whether those elements the administration care about trade, who care about more strategic approach will eventually gain the upper hand because right now, they're not. >> dickerson: thanks to all of you. we'll be right back in a moment with our book panel. ted technoly that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. comcast business outmaneuver. [ click ] [ keyboard clacking ]

[ clacking continues ] good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both. talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. >> dickerson: we turn now to conversation with four authors whose new books examine lead every ship in times of crisis. is robert dallek is the author of "franklin delano roosevelt: a political life." ron chernow is author "grant" a new biography of the civil

union general in 18th president. nancy koehn is "forged in crisis" which looks at five historical figures who demonstrated leadership. and mark updegrove snoot last republicans" examines the president he's of george w. bush and george herbert walker bush and their relationship. welcome to all of you. eye so glad you're here. ron, let me start with you. you are all historians but also story tellers, too. so, but general grant, president grant on stage for us, give us your favorite story. >> my favorite story is virginia 1864, grant is standing on the edge of the woods when lethal shell comes whizzing by him, passes within three inches of his ears. grant doesn't blink, he doesn't flinch, his facial expression doesn't change he turns to hissage than says, hudson, go get that shell let's see what the enshe firing at us. the reason i love this store tree t

literally coolness under fire. and his metabolism was such that at moments where the rest of us would be fearful or anxious he gets very cool and focused. >> dickerson: he was more cool on the battlefield almost maybe than in the barracks we'll talk about that later. nancy, you have five to choose from. which one story do you want to tell? >> it's october, 1915, earnest shackleton is marooned with 27 crew members on iceberg off the coast of antarctic california his ship is being crushed by the ice and men are intense on the berg he's pacing at night. can't sleep. doesn't know how he's going to get them all home alive. and he records later in his diary, i had no idea but i had to get them home alive. may be made into what i need to be in order to do that. the next morning, he awakes each of the men by coming to their tent with cup of hot tea says,

ship and stores now gone, lads, we'll go home. again, the coolness under pressure, the commitment, right, in the perfect storm to do something very worthy and his own uncertainty which was very important but not evident to his men. forged in crisis. >> dickerson: robert dallek, how about what is fdr -- >> well, he had a great sense of humor. ben cowen came in the oval office one morning and was chuckling. would you mind sharing the joke with me, mr. president? all right, ben, eleanor was just in here she had been to her doctor this morning for her annual physical. and i said, what did the doctor have to say about that big ass of yours? she says, he had nothing wrong to say about you.

>> dickerson: mark, you tell the story of father and a son, which moment from that do you want to tee up? >> there are two moments. one is 1990. the christmas holidays, the extended bush family convenes at camp david. and it's on the eve of desert storm and george h.w. bush has decision to make whether to send ground troops into kuwait to drive out the iraqi invaders. he has a dream that night. his father is alive again, his father died in the 1970s. and he finds out he's at a hotel room near a golf course, he goes to that hotel room there's his dad, he recalls him big, strong, highly respected and he hugs him says, i miss you very much. flash forward a dozen years and improbably the bush family some once again at camp david. celebrating the christmas holiday wi

same enemy and trying to figure out whether he should wage war against saddam hussein. but his father is there, big, strong, highly respected. he can draw on him for his counsel which he does, one and only time he talks to his father about iraq, asks him what she do. saddam hussein at that point is flaunting u.n. sanctions, and rattling sabers his father says, if he's not complying, you have to go to war. and you have to -- for sake of history you've got to understand this dynamic between father and son. ha president sees were just eight years apart. >> dickerson: we'll get back to that. robert, let's step back look at each of your books. you write about -- in your book you write, it seems well to remind americans that the system has been capable of generating candidates for high office whose commitment to the national interests exceeds their flaws and ambitions. is that it is goal of your bk?

roosevelt had an extraordinary hold of the public's imaginati imagination. for 12 years his approval rating never went below 50%. even in 1937-38 when he was struggling over purging the party of conservative democrats from the staff, he still had a 50, 55, even 60% approval rating. i love those two stories about the man who stopped eleanor on the street after franklin died and said, i miss the way your husband used to speak to me about my development or the man who stood by the railway track as the train carrying thed with eye went back to hyde park. man was sobbing somebody said, did you know the president? he said, no, but he knew me. can anyone imagine that? somebody saying that about the curren

>> dickerson: nancy you chose five people, why these five? >> a combination of reasons, john. one, i was very, very interested for personal and professional reasons i've been teaching leadership for a long time at harvard business school, in how -- emotional experience of leadership. what sit like for the leader him or self self to be in the center, right of the ways and the wins. and i wanted a selection of people that could -- that were made. leaders that were made not born, each of these people was made, rachel carson the environmenta environmentalist, and the others, shackleton, i also want, i needed to reconstruct the making. last but not least each of these people like the people in all of your books stumbled into a worthy mission. either like douglas and slavery or they bumped into it. so, i wanted to reconstruct again to your point where your book, bob, how --

like to move the bolder of goodness force ward on something big and good. >> dickerson: we'll take a quick break. we'll have lot more from our book panel when we come back. stay with us. blah my main focus was to find a team of doctors. it's not just picking a surgeon, it's picking the care team and feeling secure in where you are. visit cancercenter.com/breast ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream.

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no one who chose interdependence ever found despair. ♪ because what the world taught as weakness, is in fact our greatest virtue. ♪ >> dickerson: we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation." more from our authors' panel plus walter isaacson on leonardo da vinci. stay with us.

>> dickerson: welcome back the "face the nation" we continue our conversation with authors whose new books explore leadership. robert dallek the author of "franklin delano roosevelt: a political life." ron cher now is author of "grant." and mark updegrove is the author of "the last republicans." mark i'll start with you on this question of what is your -- you call your book snoot last republicans" no. the bush family, why that title? >> because it was clear that the bush -- bushes represent a lost -- establishment republican party. right now we see a party at war with itself. still have establishment members of that party but there are insurgents who have taken over. the partynt stand for anything sp i

platform or principles it's really what standard bear, very capricious, unpredictable donald trump decides it wants to be. so in some manner the bushes, represent the end to a type of republicanism. >> dickerson: ron, why grant and was it the grant when you went into the book the same one as when you were finally done? >> you know, i have contearian, whenever i feel that the stereotype of a particular historical figure is hardened into a caricature i'm attacked to it. grant i was interested in retiring three chief smith, one that he was a crude and brutal general, in fact he was a dazzling strategist. i wanted to retire the idea that he somehow stumbled through the entire civil war in an alcoholic haze, he did have a drinking problem but never drank during much less before a

i also, most importantly wanted to change the image of his presidency. one that was completely dominated by corruption and cronyism to one that in fact had many elements of courage in terms of his effort to protect the four million former slaves now full-fledged american citizens. grant, i was crusading for attorney general uses newly created justice department, really questions the ku klux klan which had taken over the south. >> dickerson: as we talk about presidential characteristics one strikes 'about fdr, the sense ever guile and lack of transparency. we talk about must be constantly truthful, he was rightly good at that time not hauls being truthful with everybody, was that a key skill of his? it. >> was indeed. in fact, the kinds of things that he would say in private. for example, after he won 1944, he disliked tom dewey, privately ca h

never say that in public. because he was someone who was very willing -- he would be half a step ahead of public opinion e opinion. it gave him a sense of the country a sense of leadership. he was extraordinary character, after all he was a man who couldn't walk. he only made one reference to his disability. his entire presidency of 12 years. when he came back, he said, i know you will excuse me for sitting down for carrying ten pounds of steel around each of my lower limbs. only time he made reference to the fact -- what a story. here is a man who is immobilized, couldn't walk, he wrote a letter to another -- to congressman saying when you get frustrated, you can get up and walk around. he said, i'm stuckish this chair and but private

always much more candid than he was publicly. >> dickerson: start by picture the last one of him where he looks like man who had to carry around lot of weight in his entire life. mark, let me ask you about the bush code. we were just talking about a letter that fdr wrote, i was struck by letter that george her ward walker bush wrote to sis sons during watergate. tell us about that letter, also the father was also taking whatever moment was happening using it as a lesson for his songs it felt like about this bush code. it. >> was a primer of sorts. george h.w. bush while he is the chairman of the republican party in the -- at the height of watergate, two weeks before richard nixon resigns, writes let tore his boys he calls him his lags, talking about that moment of why it's important, how you stick by a friend in need, you don't go with the crowd, you don't join the mob, if you don't have to. you stick by your

you reserve your judgment. he says in that, understand that power accompanied by arrogance is very dangerous. it is particularly dangerous when men with no experience have it for they can abuse a great institution. it's amazing, first part that have is clearly about richard nixon. the arrogance and power. the last part that have is a hypothetical. somebody with no experience. nixon clearly had experience. had been congressman, senator, vice president. hypothetical so it wasn't hard to infer what the bush family felt about donald trump as he emerged as the clear man to beat in 2016. >> dickerson: nancy in your book you talk about something called the gathering, which i want you to explain. but also have -- when you talk about leadership, people are grabbing it. in other words, they are not -- there's some question always of greatness is it thrust upon you or do you seize it. what is your take on that and explain what you mean by

leader makes the moment as well as the moment making a leader. grant is transformed as a general over the course of the civil war. fdr, right, is changed and developed through the course of his four terms. i'm sure this is true of both 41 and 4. so, greatness is not thrust upon us in some kind of divine strike of lightning. like, great suns something that i think proceeds very significantly from one person's willingness to say, i want to get better. and to fdr i'm going to show up in service to my mission with dignity and humanity. and compassion and a sense of the larger national interest. but that development, the ability of fdr to do that, the ability of grant to do such important things toward ensuring that the transformation of american of 13th, 14th, 15th amendment actually happens that wasn't something

they had to work at it. they had to -- all had -- all of these people have mired in failure which i maintain is important part of the making of resilient, courageous leaders. >> dickerson: pick up exactly on that feeling with grant and failure, i can think of so many instances where there was failure not only does he say, but also if he hadn't had failure out west he maybe never would have come back east been position to be hero. >> i think that happens. he feels that one business after another before the civil war, by the time the civil war breaks out, he's almost 40, he's been reduced to working as a clerk in his father's leather good store where he's a junior to his two younger brothers, the war breaks out. he's a brigadier general, ten months later a major general. then four years later he has million soldiers under his command. i think that experience of failure was extremely important because he learned how to weather adversity.

it gave him a toughness and perseverance that would be extremely important in a war that was very bloody and protracted also gave him audacity, he had nothing to lose and everything to gain. you see there the child again and again takes colossal risks that no other union general would have dared to take. >> dickerson: robert, we obviously with fdr there was the polio. i was struck you point out about him becoming an actor as a result of that. a key skill for a president. >> yes. he said to other sen wells, one time, you and i are two greatest actors in america. he had a kind of self confidence and i think developed as they go through the presidency and struggle with these crises, but his idea was fdr in the white house. he was the man to do the job. of course he had the

his distant cousin theodore. >> talk about confidence. >> and came from distinguished family they were spa trish answer, served him brilliantly. very clear that great leadership grows from deeply held values. >> exactly. >> that's still obvious in the case of both grant and fdr. >> something that is important to emphasize is honesty. grant is president with such a stickler for honesty that one day a visitor came to his office, you could just walk into the white house at that point. and grant and his office he heard someone telling someone that the president is out of the office. when the stranger leaves, grant pops out says, you should have said that i was otherwise engaged. he said, i don't lie for myself and i don't like people lying for me. >> want to hear

of the very high bar, wonderful line that he says to one of the quarter masters, you -- when they are providing -- you can't give me and my family the best choice of cuts of meat when my soldiers, right, don't have socks and enough muskets. the sense that the leader sets a standard of honesty of comportment of dignity that people, the understanding on fdr's part on grant's part on both bush president's part that people take their cues from leaders cannot just kids, all kinds of people. look to leaders for examples of courage under pressure for sense of direction. so i think another element of leaving in turbulent times, john, is the element of how leaders show up and end response. >> and expression of that was in the fact that franklin roosevelt never stepped forward to support

he never wrote to support an anti--lynching law. but the irony is that at the end of his administration after 12 years, black voters had moved from the republican party to democratic party and have remained there ever since. and roosevelt, because of the new deal programs, alphabet agencies, they went down to the levels so to speak of the economy and black voters felt that he was on their side. that wonderful anecdote about industrial work, franklin roosevelt was the only man in the white house would ever would have understood that my boss is a son of a bitch. [ laughter ] >> mark, you mentioned earlier that the iraq war was the in instance where the son talked to the father. incredibly close yet he didn't turn to him that much. talk a little bit about that, the tightness of their bond,

fact that they kind of -- he wasn't calling his father all the time for advice. >> nor was his father imposing his point of view on his son. that goes back to the inherent humility of george h.w. bush, he didn't want to be an added bud tone his son. hey, junior, here is how you can do things. he would also concede as would george w. bush say that the world had changed since his father was president. i think he harbored some reservations about his son's policy in iraq, but he didn't want to do anything to jeopardize. if i could make one point, john, nancy talked about comfortment. you can't under emphasize the important of civility in times of great division. george w. bush says in his address-01 when we were consider very divided after that election of 2000 was contested. he said, civility is not a tactic, it is a determined choice of trust over cynicism,

we can live by that adage today. >> dickerson: ron, let me ask you about these were solitary figures, but also had deep connections with other people. in the case of grant, was it sherman, basically struck by their relationship, but then he also had -- was it rollins, talk about that interplay with other people. these weren't just totally solitary people. >> there always has to be fearless truth teller on the staff. what happens when grant becomes brigadier general he invites a gentleman on to his staff, he is ajutant on one condition that grant not drop a touch of liquor, he, rollins would call him on it. he fell off the wagon many times, and rollins privately called him on it but not publicly. he felt that the state of the union rested on the shoulders of ulysses s. grant. i think we owe

to john rollins who became secretary of war for always having the courage to tell grant what he needed to know. >> dickerson: of course there's eleanor roosevelt. >> yeah. >> he owed a great debt to eleanor and harold who was a voice for liberal side of his administration. he was very careful politician when it came to the holocaust, for example. he saw the anti-semitism in the country, the anti-immigrant sentiments but eleanor was so angry when secretary of state would let any jewish refugees from portugal into the country she went to franklin said, this guy is a fascist. franklin said, you must not say that, eleanor. she said, but franklin, it's true. she was tough. and direct. >> dickerson: rachel carson is different than all these others.

explain why she had to do kind of two jobs. >> rachel carson is the only woman in my book, the environmentalists whose environmental builder who did more than any one person to found the modern environmental movement by publishing "silent spring" in is the 62. fascinatings thing about her story in the context of other four very interesting driven men. is that she is the primary caretaker for her birth family all her life. for her parents, for her sisters and brothers -- sister and brother then for sister's kids then for sister's kids' kids. doing all that, government job, trying to write a book. in the late 1950s she's battling breast cancer while she's adopted her grand nephew at the age of 15. not sure she can beat the clock to finish a book that she knows is both dangerous and potentially really will rock the world. so her story, particularly female story, is a story of that

courage and grace in pursuit of something really important and decent. >> dickerson: these are all wonderful books. of course we'll have to end our conversation from well be right back with another author and another book, walter isaacson. a tiny sword? bread...breadstick? a matchstick! a lamppost! coin slot! no? uhhh... 10 seconds. a stick! a walking stick! eiffel tower, mount kilimanjaro! (ding) time! sorry, it's a tandem bicycle. what? what?! as long as sloths are slow, you can count on geico saving folks money. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. you're more than just a bathroom disease.. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks.

to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. we're fed up with your unpredictability. remission can start with stelara®. talk to your doctor today. janssen wants to help you explore cost support options for stelara®. >> dickerson: joined by walter isaacson, which explores the life and work of the original renaissance man. walter, you were my boss, you always said stories at the

what story starts with leonardo? >> when you turns that unnerving milestone of becoming 30 years old and he's been -- you and i remember that a bit. he's been a painter, moderately successful in florence but has trouble finishing his painting. it's kind of worse because his father is a notary and his notarized some of the contracts of those paintings. leonardo decides it's time to seek new horizons, he's part of delegation this goes from florence to milan a cultural delegation because that's how florence had its influence. it didn't have great military, they would send it to architects and artists, other cities, florence became what we'd call soft power. he goes there and he goes as musician because he's invented a lot 6 musical instruments. when he gets the milan he doesn't want to go home. he writes the coolest job application letter in history. the 11 paragraphs, the first ten are all

engineer and anatomy and art and science and controlling the flows of waters and building castles. only in the 11th paragraph he says you can also paint as well as anyone. you see leonardo loving everything in nature just wanting to be jack of all trades. >> dickerson: is that his key quality, that he had this hunger for everything? >> his key quality, what makes him creative genius, i think, is that he was kiir just about everything. sometimes it was cure cross tee that could be useful like he would dissect and figure how do i do st. jerome in the wilderness. then he kept dissecting the heart and the liver and do layered anatomical drawings. it was a curiosity that was passionate, that was playful and end up being curious for its own sake which is what makes him feel the patterns of nature.

calls the gathering, you just gather everything up then expresses itself in various different -- >> some people who have written about him in the mast century they approach him as art critic was. it's such a shame that he squandered so much time doing anatomy and flight of birds. otherwise he could have finished one of those paintings. that's true. but he wouldn't have been leonardo and wouldn't have had the monaly virginia it was that gathering. that's what we hoof to understand being curious tea about everything not only makes you more creative it enriches your life. >> dickerson: and makes you better dinner table conversationist. >> great at this table. dickerson: you mentioned st. jerome, he went back to it later, right is that the one he keeps working and -- >> people say he abandoned his paintings. one of the things i discover asked like with st. jerome, young painter in florence, st. jerome in the wilderness, very skele

gets the neck muscles wrong early on puts the painting aside. but he comes back 25 years later, after he's done more 'natural tee drawings and he redoes the neck muscles. i've discovered wasn't so much that he abandoned paintings he thought sometimes a perfect is the enemy of the good, false a brush stroke i can make better. reminded me of steve jobs who holds up shipping the original macintosh, i wrote a book about him earlier, lot of similarities. because steve wanted the circuit board inside the mac to look beautiful. so they hold up shipping it so that notion of sometimes you hold on to something until you can make it perfect. it's not a good recipe for business. but it is a good recipe to do every now and then in life. >> dickerson: the mona lisa, explain why, i think -- why is this such a great painting? >> you know, i

it you see huge crowds you wonder, okay. when you look at the mona lisa it's the culmination of somebody who spent a life looking at that time science, anatomy, geology, but also philosophy and spirituality. and so like even his early paintings but culminating with mona lisa you have the river that curves and ancient mountains and curves into the roads and then curves into the human body as our veins d. he always made an analogy between the earth and tweenies. that's his fundamental philosophy. just giving one example of the science doing it. he dissected the human eye knew that the center of the retina is where you see black and white details the edges you see shadows and color. and so over 16 years he keeps painting the lip, he had do dissected the human face done every muscle and nerve, but 16 years he's painting it but does tiniest black

straight or turning down but the shadows and colors turning up. it becomes an interactive painting. every time you see her she seems to have a different emotion. you have a different emotion in your eyes change a bit the smile flickers back on. this is magical. it's showing inner emotion reflected on a face. >> dickerson: last question, 30 seconds. you mention what he would be like at a dinner party. what kind of person was he? >> he was very collegial, very friendly. he had everybody at the time, the mathematician, all refer to him as his best friend. and what he kind of does is, he makes everybody feel that the way to be more creative is not to specialize, not to silo yourself as we sometimes do to our kids built to be curious about everything for curiosity sake. >> dickerson: walter isaacson, thank you so much. we'll be right back.

wthey had me at fort knox -as, they keep all the gold there.. after that we moved to georgia for a couple years. then we spent some time in korea-

now we live here for good. our members call many places home, oh, lots of questions. so we made owning a home easier. navy federal credit union open to the armed forces, the dod, veterans, and their families. >> dickerson: cbs evening news begins new chapter next monday december 4th when jeff glor takes over at ninth actor. jeff, we wish you luck

take on new responsibilities. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ what we do every night is like something out of a strange dream. except that the next morning... it all makes sense. fedex powers global commerce with vast, far-reaching networks... deep knowledge of industries... and, yes... maybe a little magic. ♪

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♪ >> dickerson: that is it for us today. be sure to tune in to cbs this morning with norah o'donnell and gayle king have some of our cbs affiliate wcco-tv reporter and anchor interview with al frank franken. interviewed him more than a hundred times. this will be one we don't want to miss. until next week for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. s captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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