. >> we will get reaction from fellow south carolina congressman james clyburn, a member of the democratic leadership. >> and remember yesterday's fears from congressman elliot dingell. >> if they take my seat, i'm going to blame you. >> we've got an update this hour on msnbc. >>> good afternoon, everyone. i'm tamron hall live in new york. >> hi, tamron. i'm david shuster, live in washington. >>> we want to bring you breaking news we're following out of staten island, where a bus is involved in an accident with an suv. it ultimately crashed into a home or fence of a home. a lot of people gather td scene. right now reports have the children on the bus able to walk away. the driver may have hit his head but he was also walking away. there are reports early reporting about 25 people, which i assume are the children on board, some of them may have been slightly injured in this. quite a scene there. you see a number of people gathered outside of that home on staten island. as this is back to school, certainly this is what no parent wants to see when their children are obviously in the care of a

i don't think that it's a coincidence that you hear from the majority whip, james clyburn, that he agrees this was a racial issue, and that others started stepping forward and writing and talking about it. he's saying, i'm here. i'm president. i don't have to address it. >> yet at some level, t.j., doesn't the white house have to bring ownership of some of the racial tension that remains high in this country? >> well, it appears that they don't want to. they're trying to stay away from that. we saw this happen throughout the campaign even with the president. you don't want to be seen as being the president for the black people. you've got to be the president for everybody. i think what got a lot of folks, what president carter said, was that the overwhelming majority of what we're seeing is because of race. now, i don't know how many people agree with that. sure, some of that is out there. but there's no question, i've been surprised how little race has come up during his presidency. this man's got big problems that transcend race and all kinds of other things. this man's got bigger issue

. >> reporter: listen to congressman james clyburn on whether racism in politics is real. >> i have, on occasion, been given added police protection from the threats we get all by people who are, forsome reason, insulted by my skin color. i did not ask to come here as this color. the good lord made that decision for me. >> the president didn't hear the question about what jimmy carter said. even though mr. obama didn't start the debate, republicans challenged him to put an end to it. >> don't tell me he needs to be excused from the debate when the former president of the united states injects it voicefully and forcibly into the debate. >> reporter: the white house didn't want to talk about it. in a 47 minute briefing, the press secretary was asked about race 18 times, when you count follow up questions. >> the president does not believe that -- that criticism comes based on the color of his skin. >> reporter: is this debate healthy or will it increase racial tension? we asked bill cosby, who agrees with jimmy carter. >> i don't think you can get peopleho are entrenched in their own h

. >> but the ranking democrat in the house james clyburn says it's time to find some middle ground. one option he says is to test the public option as a private program. >> let's do that now, then two or three years down the line, some say four or five, let's take a look and see what worked and then see what we would mandate going forward what the public option would look like. >> there are some people in the house that will settle for nothing short of a public option now. what do you say to this? >> i say this gets us there. >> reporter: clyburn says there's also a trigger that would mandate a public option down the road if the insurance industry doesn't improve its performance. to the white house is signaling the administration hasn't given up on the public option. >> the president will discuss both what to the public option isn't and what the public option is in terms of bringing choice and competition. >> reporter: sill, even as he campaigned as a change candidate on health care, mr. obama said he's also a deal maker. >> in the end, all the good plans in the world won't mean any

and it is -- it is all white state except for james clyburn. and race and representation a factor in south carolina's bad health outcomes but also its politics about health? >> well, sure. just to ask the question flatly, yes, it is. now is it same kind of factor that it was when i was growing up and strom thurman was our senator and students were fighting and dying in a demonstration in my town over a segregated bowling alley in 1968? no, it's not that. and i'm struck when i go home to south carolina and at seeing black people and white people together in integrated settings in a way that i never would've seen before. that said, jim clyburn, the one african-american representative who happens to be in the majority whip in the house which gives him an awful lot of clout is -- talks about these health issues. all the time and has for years and years. he is -- he is aware in very specific terms of what the situation is. it is that faces poor people in south carolina. and jim, frankly joe wilson was best known in the state before he became a u.s.

i do know representative james clyburn was there of south carolina.mong the things he discussed was the so-called trigger option down the road. are you in favor of that? >> well, there are different trigger options that you have. and i know that the senate has a product that's pushing the trigger a little further down as it relates to the poverty line than has been said in previous pieces of legislation. but after tonight, all pieces of this health care reform package will start to come together. members like myself will be able to focus on those changes and make a sound decision at that time. but i can tell you, health care reform, in my opinion, will pass. and we have to continue to push for what all americans want. and that's lower insurance premiums and co-pays. >> all right. florida democratic congressman kendrick meek. thank you very much. >> that does it for me this hour. >> i'll be back at 3:00 eastern time for the "the big picture" with david shuster. dr. nancy snyder piman picks upr coverage next. iss when you have an allergy attack? achoo!

. >> reporter: james clyburn says it's time to find middle ground. one way is test the public option. >> let's do that now. then, three years down the road, some say four or five, then let's take a look to see what works and whether or not we will mandate going forward as to what it will look like. >> reporter: some members of your party in the house won't settle for anything short of a public option. what do you think? he's got a trigger to mandate a public option down the road. >> well, the fact of the matter is, a trigger would include a public option. >> reporter: the white house is signaling the president hasn't given up on the option. he's expected to make the case the option won't impact those who get their insurance from their employers and medicare. >> what the public option isn't and what it is in terms of bringing choices. >> as he campaigned as a changed candidate on health care, he said he was also a deal makers. >> all the good plans in the world won't mean anything, if we can't get it passed. >> reporter: james clyburn is reminding peo

. >> a congressional aide today tells nbc news that south carolina congressman james clyburn, a democratnuel is not a member of this body, again referring to wilson's call to the white house chief of staff rahm emanuel to apologize to the president and suggesting that clyburn wants an apology to the lawmakers in the house. >> david, in the bigger picture, did congressman wilson's action embolden republicans fighting to defeat health care reform? congressman steve king of iowa has circulate adler to fellow house republicans urging them to come to wilson's defense. in part it reads, "we urge that you hold your ground against those who seek partisan advantage and reject all demand for additional redress. like you, we will not be muzzled." joining us live from capitol hill is the author of that letter, congressman stephen king of iowa. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> what is the core of why congressman wilson shouldn't apologize to members of congress, not the white house, not rahm emanuel, not president obama, but the members of congress? >> the central piece of this,

is what minority leader john boehner said, to counter the number three democrat in the house, james clyburn about maintaining order in the house. and if you don't maintain order in the house, you can't get to a civil discussion of those important issues. house democratic leaders made clearly a deliberate decision to not get into to a tit for tat with republicans. the discussion was handed off to congressman clyburn and we heard from every member basically of the house republican leadership as well as from some other republican members. but we only heard from those two democrats. so we didn't hear the real extreme views that we had heard earlier in the house, just talking to people on the -- coming out of meetings today, wolf, some people talking about how racism had come into the issue, we didn't hear any of that on the floor, wolf. >> where was the house speaker nancy pelosi? >> reporter: she was noticeably absent and last week she said it was time to move on, congress mba wilson had apologized and it was time to get on to issues. when you spoke with her office today, she was clearly dista

. >> now, that was james clyburn the number three democratic in the house. this was minutes before wilson issued his apology. but there are rules governing appropriate behavior on house to floor and because the house was in session we asked him, are democrats going to be looking into enforcing those rules, sanctioning congressman wilson? he said we're looking into that. so we're looking into it very closely. >> some people might say just let it go on. why waste time with this. >> maybe that will happen because that's something clyburn said to us ahead of the apology. it distracts from the president's message last night. we'll see today if they do go through with that. >> let's talk about the president's message because he needed to talk to democrats. they needed to hear from him last night. how did democrats, especially more conservative democrats receive the president's speech? >> what we were looking for after this speech was how did these liberal democrats that say i'll only vote for a bill with a public option. how did they respond to the president and h

>> yeah, but james clyburn's experience is different than mean.someone a liar and immediately jump to racism. that's the problem. this generation of americans don't do that. dr. king laid a foundation that we have progressed from, where we are better at distinguishing vestiges of racism that exist in this country, and so when you step back and you try to wrap around the way clyburn, carter and maureen are trying to do, i think it is disingenuous and it takes real effective approaches to solving racism where it is. >> this was a statement that democratic congressman henry johnson of south carolina made, and it's causing a lot of consternation out there as well. listen to this. >> it instigated more racist sentiment feeling that it's okay, you don't have to -- you don't have to bury it now. you can bring it out and talk about it fully, and so i guess we'll probably have folks putting on white hoods and white uniforms again and riding through the countryside intimidating people. >> wow. that's -- that's a pretty powerful statement he's making. >> i t

that's what we heard from her number three, james clyburn, over this past weekend, heidi. >> wow. an awful lot to still work out, it sounds like. brianna keilar, our congressional correspondent, thank you, brianna. >>> a mother, a father, and their daughter, all three killed in a rocket attack in afghanistan. it happened yesterday in kabul. no claim of responsibility yet, but the taliban are suspected in similar attacks last month. >>> meanwhile, german chancellor angela merkel is calling into an investigation into a deadly nato air strike. the attack killed at least 90 people in a northern province on friday. a german commander called in the strike as afghans tried to siphon fuel from tankers hijacked by the taliban. >>> also in afghanistan today, claims of u.s. soldiers overstepping their bounds at a hospital. our atia abowie is joining us now live from kabul via telephone, actually. atia, tell us a little bit more about this incident. what happened inside that hospital? >> reporter: well, the information that we're getting right now, heidi, is from the swedish committee for inv

. >> the other day in interviewing congressman james clyburn, the number three ranking democrat on these, on "brian and the judge" i asked congressman clyburn where in the constitution is there authority for the federal government to manage health care. and he said to me, there isn't anything in the constitution to justify most of what we do down here. gretchen: uh-oh. >> then he went on to make the argument, we basically just write the law that we think the people want and let the courts worry about whether or not they're constitutional. so the supreme court has done some really crazy things with the power of the congress to regulate interstate commerce. gretchen: so you broke it down with three specific examples of cases. can the government regulate intrastate agriculture? >> a farmer grows wheat in his backyard and his wife mills the wheat into flour and bakes bread. the wheat never leaves the farm farmer's field. the supreme court said that's interstate commerce and the commerce can regulate it. because if a lot of farmers were allowed to do that, it might affect interstate commerc

this is majority whip james clyburn make his argument for io as well.onvicted killer but after two hours of searching they can't find a vein where they can inject him with lethal chemic chemicals. 53-year-old ramal broom was scheduled to die this morning. a last-minute appeal delayed the procedure four hours and since then the prison volunteers have been unable to attach the i.v. that will pump a deadly combination of drugs into his body. he was condemned for the 1984 rape and murder of a 14-year-old girl. >>> police in california searching the home of phillip and nancy gra reed doe in antioch, the couple accused in the rape and kidnapping of jaycee dugard, looking for what evidence they think could link the garridos to two other unsolved abductions in california. dating back to the 1980s. 13-year-old iilene misheloff missing for 20 years. similarities between the car found on their property and one witnesses reported seeing misheloff getting into the day she vanished, abducted the same year as jaycee dugard. >> cannot say the garridos are with certaint