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to make them look more solvent than they actually were and that's a very dangerous thing for the entire financial system. >> can eau claireeople have tried to manipulate the market. a lot of bids were thrown out because they were too high or low. was the interest rate marked rigged? did it impact people on the other end? >> yes, andrew, it did. barclays, it didn't. they were putting in their submissions so high and low were thrown out how they create the average. have 16 banks and take the top eight and throw the others out. barclays was thrown out because they were high and low. with ubs and rbs, their solutions were included and did manipulate it. we call it perfected manipulation. not only did they try to manipulate, they had a perfected manipulation. >> in the uk, the regulators were encouraging the banks to put in numbers because they didn't want to frighten the markets. >> do you have anything to say to those who say it's a confidence game based on leverage. what would have happened? a lot of those banks would have blown up. >> i don't know what you said to be true, not arguing it, don't know it to be true. if you'r