smaller just for the sake of making it smaller appeals, i think, to folks who may have been in the a.v. and libertarian club in high school but that's not the way the world works and it's not the way i think most americans see the government. they don't like big government. they -- but they want the government to be active and provide a pretty healthy and robust social safety net. >> we're talking with david corn, washington bureau chief of "mother jones." how long has the magazine had a washington bureau and how long have you been chief? >> they started the bureau around 2007 and -- october 2007 i became the washington bureau chief. i used to work at "the nation" and i jumped at the chance to work with, at that point we probably had six people here, now we have 15 people in the washington bureau, 10 reporters, five editors. the editors also do some reporting and editing when so moved to. it seems to me to be one of the bigger bureaus in washington these days. host: and based in san francisco, is that correct? guest: the magazine and website are based in san francisco. host: how big is