so the civil rights movement borrowed on the language of the abolitioni abolitionist. so we have all of these social movements that organize themselves around the models of abolition as the one great, you know, relatively pure example of extraordinary socialism in our country. but also, we're called on to be modest at the same time. >> i want to make a equipment argument, just a little bit -- argument for why slavery is just a little different. if you look at a state like south carolina or mississippi, were you talking about the majority of the people who live there enslaved. i'm going to go here. i think slavery is a particular kind of violence when you talk about the selling of people, selling of children, the division of families. i think that's a little different than peta, and i guess i'm being presentist right now, but when we talk about pragmatism, we are talking about two sides that have power. but when i don't think we should ever lose sight of the fact that there are a great number of people who have absolutely no power, and also i think we belong in that deb