clinton was not an abolitionist. slavery was thriving in the british empire at that time in the west indies. he wasn't trying to abolish slavery but he said we have promised freedom and the king keeps his promises. somewhere above 3000 slaves left with the british including a couple of george washington's own slaves who said to clinton by the way i would like you to keep an eye out for a couple of my slaves. they scattered all over the place. some of them ended up in canada and some of them ended up in britain and some of them ended up in sierra leone. some of them were sold back into slavery by the british said they had their own very interesting stories. the fact that 3000 or so african-americans gain their liberty through the british not to the americans, is another sign of the contradiction in american history right from the birth of our public. >> host: absolutely. the book is titled "gateway to freedom" the hidden history of the underground railroad. professor eric foner thank you for joining us today. >> guest

the people involved in the underground railroad for abolitionists and more involved in the abolitionist movement. on one hand they were engaged in secret and illegal activities and sheltering and assisting escaped slaves. on the other hand they are going to public meetings. they are petitioning legislatures of the states. some places are holding bake sales you might almost call it. bears, desirous to help fugitive slaves. when you get to upstate new york lake syracuse comments completely open. the key activist they are advertised as the newspapers. he said i'm the underground railroad. anyone who knows about fugitive slaves finance. the authorities that there were anti-slavery. depending on where you go it was more or less more or less secret and more or less open. in new york he was pretty secret because new york had close ties to the south with a lot of public officials who are happy to help apprehend fugitive slaves. it was the mass public essay is here accused for albany or places like that. >> to talk about that. the other sentiment in new york. slavery in the in 1827. but there's

lincoln, as you well know was not an abolitionist. lincoln never claimed to be an abolitionist. before the war lincoln had said, as you say, he was strongly opposed to the western expansion of slavery, but he he never called for violation of the fugitive slave law. lincoln was a lawyer, a man who believed in the rule of law. in a famous letter in 1855 to his friend, a slave owner in kentucky, he said i hate to see them hunted down, but i white my lip -- but i bite my lip and keep silent. why did he keep silent? because this was in the constitution, this was federal law. unlike the abolitionists he said i don't believe in a higher law i don't believe you can abide by the moral law rather than the actual law on the books. and in the secession crisis he said i don't care what we do about fugitive slaves. i'm willing to give them concessions on that. not on the expansion of slavery although he said i would like the fugitive slave law to be amended so that a free person could not be caught up. free people could easily be grabbed, brought before a commissioner, someone says oh, yeah,

black abolitionist. but they were white abolitionists involved in the sport interracial organizations and much of the money they were rather poor in this pure code they had limited economic opportunities. it was a well-to-do merchant was a dedicated abolitionist and they went upstate. so they were contributing money and taking part but most of the activity is by screen blacks and one of them are unknown to us for example they were fugitives that came in hitting on ships and they would notify the activists or send them to the office. they worked at the railroad depots and hotels as cooks or domestic workers is a southerner came to new york it with a slave they would say you can become free if you want so their activity was important. why don't we hear more about it. after the civil war they wrote their own histories. they wrote their memoirs and about the underground railroad and even though there's a lot of valuable information they tend to make this a kind of white enterprise giving assistance to help u

this irritated abolitionist. one of wrote in his diary "why can't he cut off the whole tree rather than love offb off branches?" this suggestion also struck lincoln's antagonist as too revolutionary. that is why one man decided to kill the president. according to his words "now, by god, i'll put him through." when put a shot into his head three nights later, it was good friday. that same day, someone attacked secretary william stewart in bed in washington. stewart lived, while news of lincoln's death spread across the nation and the world. now suddenly new questions became pressing. what would become of the emancipation proclamation? what would president andrew johnson do? what happened the next day? trepidation for the future, i found, was particularly acute for african-americans. it is true that black leaders criticized lincoln's hesitancy early in the war. but lincoln had been deeply influenced by the eviction of lack and white abolitionist, including the more radical numbers of his party. 16 euros point. the

those were the days, as lee saw it, before abolitionists had viewed african-americans as free. he exchanges letters with grant. this will be calmly's -- become lee's political keyword. for example, six months after the surrender, he wrote to his friend the following lament about what had been and what might yet again be. he wrote, as long as virtue was dominant in the republic so long was the happiness of the people secure. may and ever merciful god save us from destruction and restore us to the bright hopes and prospects of the past. this was a fundamentally nostalgic view of the peace nostalgic for the long-gone days. lee cast the surrender terms in the best possible light. he believed that those -- that the surrender was a negotiation in which lee extracted concessions from grant and they believed the piece was contingent on the north's good behavior. it are to protect his troops against possible reprisals, he requested a grant at appomattox a day after the surrender that each individual confederate be issued a printed certificate as proof that the soldier came under the apr

this cautious suggestion irritated abolitionists heard as one white new england are in her diary, why can't he cut down the whole tree instead of just lopping off the branches. unsurprisingly, the same suggestion that suffrage be extended to a select group of black men struck lincoln's antagonist as entirely too revolutionary. that's where the young shakespearean actor who stood in a crowd that evening vowed to kill the president. among his exact words -- now, by god, i'll put him through. when booth fired a single shot in the back of lincoln's head three nights later, in the presidential box, it was goodbye. that same evening, one of the conspirators attacked william seward in his bed at home in washington. seward lived, while the news of president lincoln's death spread to the telegraph wires and across the nation and the world. now, suddenly, new questions became pressing. what would become of the emancipation proclamation? all of president andrew johnson do. -- what would president andrew johnson do? what would happen the next day. trepidation was particularly acute for african-am

because you said all abolitionists, whether they were, you know, frederick douglass, or modern-day abolitionists like you, there is an emotional cost. you talked about... i didn't know that fredrick douglass had had a breakdown, an emotional breakdown. help us to understand, then. you know, because people are like, "i've got enough emotional stuff going on in my life. you want me to... i'm not going to go there." help us to understand why... >> well, you can see, my work is full of inspiration. you know, when we see people come out of slavery, which we see every week-- we see people coming out of slavery every week-- you can't feel anything but... >> hinojosa: i'm just... honestly, i'm stuck with that. i'm just like... every week you're able to document people getting out of slavery? >> yeah. we get photos being sent to us from all of our field offices if we're not there visiting. and people are, you know, saying, "look, here's a family who's out of slavery. here are 20 kids who are out of slavery." and i've got to say, you feel pretty good at the end of the week, right? but at the same time, yo

in the eyes of abolitionists such as horace greeley magnanimity was the means to an end, and means to achieve a sacred purpose, to secure the assent of the south to emancipation. northerners, including many abolitionists saw grants magnanimity as an emblem of their own moral authority. the moral superiority even. that magnanimity approved that a civilization based on free labor is of a higher and more humane type than that based on slavery. really favored grants magnanimous terms because come as he put it, i want as many rebels as possible to live to see the south rejuvenated and transformed by the influence of free labor. what fitter fate for the likes of jefferson davis and robert ely then to have to live in this brave new world and bear witness to a social revolution. in essence, northerners who embraced grants terms of said to the south, we don't want to inflict further punishments. we want you to change. and confederates responded that the demand for change with a form of punishment. then any demand for change was inherently punitive and a breaking of a compact that had been made

and they helped to form abolitionist newspapers and to form political parties that got 1% of the vote and then 2% of the vote. and then they started to do more. it wasn't the quakers although i wish it was. the fact of the matter was there came a point where this issue was made real. and my friend got up and said it's been 40 years. well, it was a lot more than 40 years from 1787 to 1861. and the fact of the matter is change doesn't come as fast as we want but change comes when we stop worrying about how long we've been working at it and start worrying about whether everybody in the room is onboard and in the struggle. because the fact of the matter is if we want to fix this thing, we've got to all get to be structuralists, and the structure we must change is the structure that says -- referencing this young woman's question -- that somehow we can put more money into our politics but less votes. we ought to reverse that. >> 40% of americans today register as independents. change is coming. >> yeah. >> well let's finish with lee. one last comment? >> one quick comment. you know, i thin

. >> up next, a debate inspired by the writings and correspondences of abraham lincoln and abolitionist frederick douglass. although the two men met on a handful of occasions, they never publicly debated. two actors take on the roles of lincoln and douglas and harold holzer moderates. the metropolitan museum of art posted this event. [applause] holzer: in their entire eventful lives, be met only three times, maybe for at most. and when they finally did, they spent their time together locked in political combat. one was a proud radical, and avenue -- an advocate for racial justice who ran out of patience with the status quo. the other was an ingenious master of the arts of compromise exquisite political timing, leading when necessary from behind. one would save the union and slowly cure its major defect, slavery. the other would free all slaves immediately, even if it meant destroying slavery and the union together. they expressed their views with uncommon eloquence, two of the most famous or hr's in an age that prized oratory. they developed a mutual respect, and ultimately genuine mutu

>> the abolitionist movement proportionally like other radical movements, was always fighting among itin 1840, is split into two wings. the garrison wing and the louis happen wing. that is why you had two outpost of the underground railroad in new york city. either way, they were around the corner from each other. they were kind of rivals but also cooperated sometimes. there were differences intact. even the people deeply involved in the underground railroad for also overground at the same time. they were publishing newspapers, holding conventions, you know, sending petitions around. the people operated both legally and you might say sub rosa at the same time. amy: and this idea, any reference did earlier, the underground railroad was whites helping blacks. >> you get that in a lot of early literature. particularly after the civil war. you get this picture of courageous white people -- which is true, they were courageous, sort of assisting helpless black people. that is really not right. first of all, to escape from slavery was courageous. it was very difficult to do the record of fugi

you shouldn't make the mistake he was an abolitionist which was not an abolitionist. he did pray god would end slavery but he thought it was worse for whites ban slaves themselves which is an attitude that is hard for us to understand but he wanted nothing to do with his institution. he tried his hardest to avoid it as much as possible. what ultimately in tables him in the institution of slavery is his father-in-law died in 1857 and he leaves a will naming robert e. lee as executor of state that includes slaves who are descended from mount vernon. on the eve of the civil war robert e. lee is managing states that include slaves the george washington had wanted to but could not free. it was the unresolved question of slavery, the personal legacy robert e. lee received from george washington. to see the unresolved question of slavery began turning to violence, 50 miles upriver from arlington, 60 miles up the potomac river to a little town called harper's ferry. george washington decided to put an armory in harpers ferry. his advisers thought this was a terrible idea. you

gardner's folks, gardner was politically active and an abolitionist. when he constructed this image he is definitely making a statement. look at this. are you going to say he is not a man? that the family around his feet are somehow less than yours? they may not have shoes like you. but they want the same things. could you even imagine a more patriarchal scene than this? i would love to have my family like that. he is pointing at the northern people saying, this is what it has been about. from an abolitionist point of view, this is powerful. that is why gardner's images are interesting. he is always trying to needle in a political point and in this case it is right between the eyes. coming to the end, the white house of the confederacy. which i'm sure some of you have visited. it is open to the public to. you can only really shoot it from this angle. that is a problem now, because if you match it up, all you see are the hospital buildings. he has constructed a man standing next to the light pole. brady himself. there he is again. i'm not so much intere

this cautious suggestion irritated abolitionists heard as one white new england are in her diary, why can't he cut down the whole tree instead of just lopping off the branches. unsurprisingly, the same suggestion that suffrage be extended to a select group of black men struck lincoln's antagonist as entirely too revolutionary. that's where the young shakespearean actor who stood in a crowd that evening vowed to kill the president. among his exact words -- now, by god, i'll put him through. when booth fired a single shot in the back of lincoln's head three nights later, in the presidential box, it was goodbye. that same evening, one of the conspirators attacked william seward in his bed at home in washington. seward lived, while the news of president lincoln's death spread to the telegraph wires and across the nation and the world. now, suddenly, new questions became pressing. what would become of the emancipation proclamation? all of president andrew johnson do. -- what would president andrew johnson do? what would happen the next day. trepidation was particularly acute for african-am

in his recognition of the role black men were playing to win the war for the union, the great abolitionistr --orator became more confident that the president would work on behalf of all americans, including african-americans. in this regard and many others lincoln second inaugural address did not disappoint. when the former slave attended the inaugural reception, the president asked him what he thought of his age. douglas assured him it was a sacred effort. one imagines that was left the reception convinced that in lincoln's second term, african-americans would secure the freedom and equality they had envisioned and for which they had fought. in the address, the president had called for legation. -- called for reconciliation. he had suggested the need to bind up the nation's wounds and to care for those who had torn the battle. -- borne the battle. douglas understood that african-americans would need all of the nations good wishes and assistance if they were supposed to meet the challenges of post-commit -- post-emancipation. during the war, leaders in the african-american community had pr

finally, he reaches the abolitionist hotbed of new bedford, massachusetts, where free african-americans and antislavery whites keep slave catchers from rounding up fugitives. he never forgets those first anxious days of freedom in the northeast. at around the same time, a rising illinois politician lincoln delivers his first major speech in his new home town of springfield, illinois. to condemn the horrors that have been fallen white and black lovers of freedom in the northwest. douglass: freedom. it was the highest excitement i experienced. i felt like one who had escaped a den of lions. the state of mind, however, soon subsided and i was again seized with a feeling of insecurity and loneliness. i was yet liable to be taken back and subjected to all the tortures of slavery. this was enough to dampen the ardor of my enthusiasm. the motto i adopted was this: trust no man. to understand, imagine yourself a fugitive slave in a strange land. a land given up to be the hunting ground of slaveholders. whose inhabitants are legalized kidnappers, where he is without home or friend, without money

i'm thinking of the abolitionists who were so militant about freeing slaves. but where were they at the wake of the war when the black soldiers were not allowed to march with the grand army of the republican people worse ashley being re-enslaved -- work essentially being rinse late? >> your question is a splendid wine and a storied one. that is the next congress -- the next conference we need to have, right? postwar. truth and reconciliation. i had a chance to talk with naomi tutu whose father was so essential to that process of truth and reconciliation and postapartheid, post separate spheres. one of the things i came away with was which truths and which reconciliation for whom? again, it is that gorgeous, real expensive contract, right? i will confess my sins and you will forgive me and we will move on. but what happens if we actually dwell in the horror of the truth? what happens if it is just the truth commission? reconciliation requires so much for whom that truth is a nightmare that ellison cannot wake up from and that so many people cannot wake up from.

afterwards, pulitzer prize winning historian eric foner on the efforts of free blacks and white abolitionistson the underground railroad. sunday night at 10:00 p.m.,hassan hassan on the rise of ices in the middle east. starting at 9:00 eastern a and throughout the day on c-span three, american history tv joint historians and others at the abraham lincoln symposium live from ford's theater. sunday evening at 6:00 and american artifacts, a visit to the national museum of health and medicine to view items from their civil war items including artifacts related to president lincoln's assassination. find our complete television schedule at www.c-span.org and let us know in you think about the programs you're watching. you ca

it was conceived initially by an abolitionist minister was originally from new england. during sherman's march he was a chaplain. during his marks through georgia we are familiar with his special field order 17 where after seeing the conditions of the recently free proclamation, since these human beings had told the soil -- tilled the soil, very legitimately deserved ownership of the land they had lived on for generations. special order 15 generated the concept of 40 acres and a mule. as you go, after president lincoln was associated and andrew young became -- sorry. [laughter] president andrew johnson basically a lot of these initiatives were overturned by president johnson. the rescinded special order -- he rescinded special order number 15. and since 40 acres and a mule was no longer a promise, that was a severe disappointment to many of these recently freed african-americans because they felt they deserved to the land but they had to move on. as they moved into the position of wage laborers, many of them have no experience with any type of financial institution or ha

it was conceived initially by an abolitionist minister was originally from new england. during sherman's march he was a chaplain. during his marks through georgia we are familiar with his special field order 17 where after seeing the conditions of the recently free proclamation since these human beings had tilled the soil, very legitimately deserved ownership of the land they had lived on for generations. special order 15 generated the concept of 40 acres and a mule. as you go, after president lincoln was associated and that andrew young became -- sorry. [laughter] president andrew johnson basically a lot of these initiatives were overturned by president johnson. he rescinded special order number 15. and since 40 acres and a mule was no longer a promise, that was a severe disappointment to many of these recently freed african-americans because they felt they deserved to the land but they had to move on. as they moved into the position of wage laborers, many of them have no experience with any type of financial institution or handling money at all. john w alfred out where

finish though you shouldn't make the mistake of thinking he was an abolitionist. he certainly was not. he did pray for a day that god would end slavery. it may surprise you to know that he actually thought slavery was worse for whites than it was for the slaves themselves which is an attitude that's probably hard for us to understand today. but, basically, robert e. lee just wanted nothing to do with this institution and he tried his hardest to avoid it as much as possible. but what ultimately entangles robert e. lee in the institution of slavery is that his father-in-law dies in 1857, and he leaves a will naming robert e. lee as executor of estates that actually includes slaves who are descended from mount vernon. so on the eve of the civil war robert e. lee is managing estates that include slaves that george washington had wanted to but could not free. and so it was very much the unresolved question of slavery was one of the personal legacies that robert e. lee received from george washington. and to see how this unresolved question of slavery began turning to v

afterwards, pulitzer prize winning historian eric foner on the efforts of free blacks and white abolitionists to help slaves on the underground railroad. sunday night at 10:00 p.m.,hassan hassan on the rise of ices in the middle east. starting at 9:00 eastern a and throughout the day on c-span three, american history tv joint historians and others at the abraham lincoln symposium live from ford's theater. sunday evening at 6:00 and american artifacts, a visit to the national museum of health and medicine to view items from their civil war items including artifacts related to president lincoln's assassination. find our complete television schedule at www.c-span.org and let us know in you think about the programs you're watching. you can call us, e-mail us, or tweet us. join the c-span conversation, like us on facebook and follow us on twitter. >> since 1985, john douglas hall has been portraying president james madison. he has been in mount vernon, montpelier, and gatsby's tavern in alexandria, virginia. next, to mark the 200 anniversary of the signing of the treaty of ghent by the president e

a student of mine was working on her senior thesis about the abolitionist journalist and is interested in his journalistic career but she said in the papers there is the document about fugitive slaves and you may find it interesting. i filed that way and to with the record of fugitives but basically for two years a journalist and an activist of the underground railroad reported the experiences of over 200 men women and children to went on their way to freedom and ba journalist he put down their stories of who owns them or why or how they escaped who helped them how they got to your care where they send them or how much money they spend like on train tickets. then i decided to track down the leads with the record of fugitives to see if i could depicted as a cave through new york city. of the book begins with a document may be a star with a historical question then find the resources they hear it is the opposite. i worked out to piece together a narrative of history. >> what was the underground railroad? . .

the abolitionists that was flogged in the house of the senate was also a big anti-monopoly organizer. we have forgotten this part of the history that connects power in a serious way but we have forgotten it because we have been funded to think of them and separately. if anybody images hayak i have to tell the story is completely inappropriate. [laughter] but when we got together in our own separate communities people talk about gender issues or class and what you find is those conversations start to overlap in dicey flock's when 1 billion hoodies my friend works of that organization there are women that say this saving idea about class and i did realize that. so we see oliver fights our own personal take to be disenfranchised their own personal take on having no power but i am of woman and until very recently i had no hope to be in the middle class a was a working-class girl so the issues are gender sexuality and class. but that doesn't mean that doesn't read everything i am saying does not apply to many in this issue is in the beautiful thing about the new organizing we can see that

northern abolitionists? was it emancipated slaves? whose memory do we take? of course, prior to the centennial, that was an easy question. because history to some degree always reflects those who possess or are in power. since the end of the sesquicentennial, since the beginning of the centennial, the dynamics of our political conversation, the dynamics of power within our society have changed dramatically. women's rights movement, you will hear a great do more about civilians than you ever did before. i think most of us are glad for that. it is an important part of the story. the civil rights movement, of course african-americans are going to seek to hear their story in our nations history. and so it goes on. nukes scholarship -- new scholarship, the job of academics is to agitate us all and some fashion, to provoke us, and they do. they challenges. they ask questions. some of them we don't like. some of this makes us feel a little uncomfortable or unstable. now, all this and a lot of new scholarship on something called memory, memory studies that have flood

we don't want to spend too much time looking backward while we were founded by the abolitionist in 1865 we believe we have held true to the best of those values but we have not succeeded in all of our goals so would appears to have a lot ahead of. but if you were here in this room or watching so with that feels a phone you have become addicted to if you put it in the word nation 66866 that will tap into a world of the enlightenment and information. so please do that if you can rebut the of to tell you more about the magazine but right now so to give you a sense of what we're working on now. and i assure you know, the remarkable katha pollitt. [applause] one of the few people who can come here to hold a thoughtful discussion of reproductive rights and feminism and then the next day give a seminar of poetry. , but talking about her new book which is the embrace of the struggle for the value of a society that respects women's reproductive rights in their struggles to be a part of all that we see for but also to get comfortable with words that a lot of people don't always say. katha pollitt

doris was an abolitionist from the beginning. most white union soldiers were not. they were democrats when they listed. that changed tremendously. of course, abraham lincoln had a lot to do with that. while history was being made bruce patton noted the incredible sight of hardened soldiers going up to battle and boating for more war to be far by itself, instead of an end to fighting. the men who voted for it -- it was disproportionately for lincoln -- that vote for lincoln was not just of over lincoln, it was a vote for emancipation, and a vote of confidence in the commander-in-chief, and frankly a vote of confidence in themselves, the soldiers they had become. lincoln had a relationship with the men of the union that is probably unique among all commanders in chief. what's interesting is that was east and west, even though lincoln never went to the west. always in the east. we see davis's tremendous book on lincoln and union soldiers and he said, he didn't go west because the armies in the west were victorious. there was no reason. i tend to agree. the armies of t

those were the days, as lee saw it, before abolitionists had viewed african-americans as free. he exchanges letters with grant. this will be calmly's -- become lee's political keyword. for example, six months after the surrender, he wrote to his friend the following lament about what had been and what might yet again be. he wrote, as long as virtue was dominant in the republic so long was the happiness of the people secure. may and ever merciful god save us from destruction and restore us to the bright hopes and prospects of the past. this was a fundamentally nostalgic view of the peace nostalgic for the long-gone days. lee cast the surrender terms in the best possible light. he believed that those -- that the surrender was a negotiation in which lee extracted concessions from grant and they believed the piece was contingent on the north's good behavior. it are to protect his troops against possible reprisals, he requested a grant at appomattox a day after the surrender that each individual confederate be issued a printed certificate as proof that the soldier came under the apr

it to the strong support by the abolitionist's ending slavery. the support for the slough jets -- for the suffragettes. the people of massachusetts have a high standard for progress to be made by their representatives. and it is one that challenges all of us each day. senator edward m kennedy massachusetts, 2015. [applause] biden: now that we have heard from the past, let's make a pledge for the future. i invite everyone in the entire chamber on the floor and in the gallery to please and and join me in making a commitment to the leadership in service this institute represents. please respond by saying, "i do." we, the people of this hallowed chamber in order to strengthen the system of self-government, make the following pledge. do you solemnly swear that you will be an active and engaged citizen of the united states? do you pledge to show courage and compassion in your service to others? do you pledge to use your heart, soul, intelligence, and imagination to make america better? do you pledge to work together with anyone regardless of difference

on c-span2's book tv, pulitzer prize winner historian eric fon er on the effort of abolitionists to help fugitive slaves. in sunday night at 10, abu dhabi-based journalists hassan hassan. and saturday morning, american history tv joints historians and authors at the abraham lincoln symposium live for theater. some evening at six, a visit to the national museum of health and medicine to view items from their civil war collection including artifacts related to president lincoln's assassination. find our full schedule at c-span.org and tell us what you think about the programs you are watching. e-mail us or send us a tweet @cspan #comments. >> this weekend, the c-span cities tour has partnered with media, to learn about the --mediacom. >> here are the remains of a confederate ironclad. it was built here in columbus during the war. those oval shapes are the gun ports. the jackson was armed with six brooke rifles. the particular brooke rifle that we are firing today was one of the guns built specifically for the jackson. it was cast at the naval works in alabama and completed in january of 18

he was an abolitionist in new york. brian lamb: george washington at the end? david stewart: washington had money. he was a good is listening. he was a fine steward of his plantation. he left a great many slaves, and a great many of them were his wife's. he married her when she was a widow. he left in the will that his slaves should be freed when his wife died. that turned out not to be a good situation. it made mrs. washington very nervous because the slaves had a vested interest in having her die. so she just freed them herself. there was a tradition, of slaves poisoning their masters. that was something she was afraid of. ironically, madison's grandfather was poisoned by a sleep. -- sleeve. --slave. brian lamb: when you look bad it -- back at it, and most of them could not financially do right, and most of them could not free slaves. when you talk to african-americans, they say that we were put e-this beginning -- behind from the beginning and we are supposed to be created equal. david stewart: the hypocrisy is visible. we have to be honest about it. but we

he was a fierce abolitionist and what is our national hero because of his work in the civil war. thank you. >> thank you very much for an excellent presentation. toward the end of your presentation you said this in the last paragraph that dr. bliss was murdering the president. you don't see any malice to him but utter incompetence? and one more question, just a little bit about your background. i'm curious to know how you got interested in the subject. >> i will address the bliss thing. you are absolutely right. the lasting bliss wanted was for garfield to die. in fact he wrote a letter to a friend on white house stationery saying, i can't afford to have him die underlining each word. he was desperate. he worked night and day. he lost his house, he lost his practice, but he was incredibly arrogant. he dismissed all the other doctors and he was woefully ignorant. he knew about antisepsis, and so you know, you have to judge them on that. your other question was how i got interested in this? to be honest, i didn't, even though i grew up in ohio it didn't know much about garfield be

and the slaves would hide literally on the other side of the market street bridge and wait for abolitionist garrett to come help them out get to safety in pennsylvania. they now both have their name on this park. it's amazing stuff. pretty soon lots of delaware towns and businesses could benefit from the freedom fighting they did back in the 1800s. mrs. bonnie's restaurant is packed at restaurant at lunchtime. >> there was a woman who led a crusade of people to freedom along this same route a long this biway. >> reporter: today the small business administration launched a plan that would try to better mark delaware's underground railroad by which tubman used to get thousands of slaves up through dover to middletown new castle, and freedom in pennsylvania. the sba is working on a plan to promote the history and businesses that sit along it. it starts with wall hangings. >> visitors passing by can see they're a biway-connected business. >> reporter: there could be more websites and apps. thomas garrett was tried in this courtroom for helping slaves. some coming through this town might get cou

martha: john brown is a great example because abolitionists were so vocal, utterly outraged. the northern population was not the white population anti-slavery. people were really outraged at the execution of john brown. and the confederate, the future confederate white seven's were certain he should be put to death. john brought is a good example because it is so extreme. you have these extreme sides responding to something in what we now think of as becoming of the civil war. at that moment when could not have said that. what i found in response to the assassination after the war is over, you could go back and see the roots of some of that in that very pivotal moment before several years before the war starts. >> can i add a comment? it is most remarkable in five years of his execution everything he predicted came true. african-americans being armed. i have agreed with the two latest books that were done on john brown, there were so many things that were done in the last 10 years before the war that back fired on slavery's advocates. it did nothing but galvanize emancipation

martha: john brown is a great example because abolitionists were so vocal, utterly outraged. the northern population was not the white population anti-slavery. people were really outraged at the execution of john brown. and the confederate, the future confederate white seven's were certain he should be put to death. john brought is a good example because it is so extreme. you have these extreme sides responding to something in what we now think of as becoming of the civil war. at that moment when could not have said that. what i found in response to the assassination after the war is over, you could go back and see the roots of some of that in that very pivotal moment before several years before the war starts. >> can i add a comment? it is most remarkable in five years of his execution everything he predicted came true. african-americans being armed. i have agreed with the two latest books that were done on john brown, there were so many things that were done in the last 10 years before the war that back fired on slavery's advocates. it did nothing but galvanize emancipation

the world except for the colony of connecticut, where the people hide behind god, but are really abolitionist criminals. he did not use the word criminals, but it was that kind of prejudice. you can imagine the attitude that new englanders had towards southerners and southerners had toward new england. what held the united states together after 1783? it was very fragile, believe me. a national debt. $25 million. a common language. and the pride in having defeated the strongest military, and especially naval, power in the world. well, from where was congress going to govern this country? we had a constitution. it was called the articles of confederation. it may be states supreme over the federal government. it was ratified in 1781. it granted the united states of america power over foreign affairs, war, and a post office . that was it. if congress wanted money, which of course it needed, it had to requisition it from the states. every year, congress would adopt a budget, and would have to tell each state what their share would be. often the money never arrived. congress had no power over comme

. >> total abolitionist. >> so far it's being played by bobby jindal.e says a thing little further than the next guy at each of these encounters. >> no, ben carson says the thing that is over -- >> yes and no. if you look at google ads, they are trolling jeb bush. i don't know think think there are going to be a lot of lobby bombs. >> what is your reaction about what he gets clearly aimed at him? >> i think what he's going to have to do is really, really talk up all of his conservativism and not like like he's shifting or anything like that because that's extremely deadly in politics. i think he's going to have to rely on the fact that, yeah, there are areas where we disagree but i challenge you to show that you have a better record when it comes to budget and -- >> i wonder what his opponents will control the definitions. he will be for amnesty, for common core, they will have him using -- they will have established the language of the debate. >> the challenge with this is that a lot of these guys are for amnesty and for common core and have been. >> n

eastern on after words eric foner on the efforts of free blacks and white abolitionists to help fugitive slaves. and saturday night at 10:00 the rise and leadership of isis in the middle east. and saturday morning starting at 9:00 eastern and throughout the day on c-span 3 american history tv joins historians and authors at the abraham lincoln symposium live from ford's theater. and sunday evening artifacts related to president lincoln's assassination. find the complete television lineup on c-span.org. e-mail us at comments@c span.org or send us a tweet. join the conversation. like us on facebook. follow us on twitter. >>> next fcc commissioners discuss their recent open internet vote classifying the internet as a common carrier. last month the fcc approved new open internet rules designed to prohibit internet service providers from blocking or discriminating against legal content moving through their networks. held before the senate commerce committee this is three hours 40 minutes. so let me start with my remarks and then we are going to go to distinguished ranking member senator from