i was in iraq in december of four and try to in the park in my up the abu ghraib prison and that they would not let us in. my question i considered the elephant in the room. i see our current military is dealing with the american people who paid stairway and stealing in two distinct modes, one secrecy in one public relations. icu is a master of one leg in each of those. you of course were one star briefer for the price during the shock and no invasion. my question is given a vast amount of secrecy that is necessary for the culture that you're evolving very brilliantly i would concede, does it ever concern you one impact this has on democracy and the citizenship it really doesn't know what the heck you're doing. it's a very important question and the rest of the sort of things you do and i wonder if that concern you at all. >> if i understand your question i am in many ways that i.q. has been on the peace movement for a long time as well. if i understand your question chemie word about the balance between necessary secrecy and wider secrecy because there's a certain amount of necessary

they used abu ghraib to light the fire. if you are doing that or even if you are perceived as doing that, i think it is extraordinarily damaging to your cause, long term. and you have to think long-term. you cannot think what feels best today. >> one of many great things about your book is that you tell us the historical figures that influenced your thinking. i was really struck by one. here you are, fighting in the middle of the desert, the 21st century. you looked for inspiration and leadership to horatio nelson, a naval commander two centuries before. you say in the book that he -- his leadership style became the leadership style that made your net worth -- your network succeed. can you explain why horatio nelson is so important to us 205 years after the battle of trafalgar? >> absolutely. i've always been interested in the more i read about him, the more i understood the similarity. midshipman. he had to be able to do -- start as a midshipman. he had to be able to do every job on the ship. literally, had to be able to d

been honest with the american people and open with these records, then maybe we wouldn't have had abu ghraibu know, the torture scandal there." he came to see it as a real failing onis part. >> what kd of reception did you get when you went out to call on these veterans who had been there, whose testimony was included in these secret files and who must have been disturbed when this young reporter calls and said, "i'd like to talk to the two of you about war crimes in vietnam"? >> there were times when i had a door slammed shut in my face or the phone slammed down on the receiver. but most of the time veterans were willing to talk. and a lot of them told me that they were -- they were happy to talk about it, in some ways. even if we were talking about, you know, horrific events -- you know? a lot of them said that they couldn't tell their families about this. you know? it's not something they were able to talk about. but i knew something of their experience. and they were willing to walk that road with me. >> there was a medic, jamie henry, who seems to epitomize the stories of everyone else

corporations who were involved in harsh interrogation and torture in abu ghraib for 72 torture victims. but none of those cases have gone through adjudications. no court has made a finding the way that the european court did about the circumstances of their torture and their abuse. that's a problem here in the united states. and when you couple that with an aggressive policy from both the bush and the obama administrations, where the obama administration is now making the arguments that courts should not hear these types of cases, that's when you really want run into problems. >> it's a great point. and it feeds into all of the issues we've been talking about, involving presidential power to conduct these kinds of programs, whether it be a secret detention program, a black site, harsh interrogation. they prefer not to call it torture in the bush administration, because torture's just a word. and it has a definition that they don't agree with. >> in the bush administration? >> yes. the bush administration. well, the obama administration doesn't torture. and he's said that. >> he said th

we've seen this debate before, whether it was waterboarding and torture, whether it was abu ghraib, aboutotect ourselves, if it means compromising our ideals when it comes to due process and civil liberties. it's an interesting debate. there probably's no real right answers. we've seen this kind of debate before. now the latest incarnation happens to be these drone strikes. >> and there are lawmakers in 11 states that want to do away with these. they're afraid that these drones are going to start flying over their states. but police agencies say they're helpful for surveillance, search and rescue. we saw a generation of it being used in -- for the little alabama boy who was in the bunker. they were trying to see if he was alive under the bunker. and they flew some kind of generation of a drove over there. so you can understand how in some cases it's helpful, but you can see how some people are very afraid of the civil liberties being -- >> security and liberties. that debate, that is what this seems to be about. >>> the latest political maneuver against gun violence takes place on capitol

justify breaking the law and all moral codes endorse human rights violations, teach americans that abu ghraibte view of it. i watched the first whatever but he thinks that -- it does make the c.i.a. -- it is like -- i was saying kathryn bigelow wrote a thing in the "l.a. times." she talks about she doesn't personally believe torture led to bin laden -- but she said to portray that time without including it -- >> it wouldn't have been true to history. >> stephanie: it would not have been historically accurate. i understand that. >> it does make it look like torture led to it. >> stephanie: a lot of people had that view that saw it. we'll talk about what she said. we have tina dupuy. we have representative louis gutierrez. >> you yelled at me for helping you last time. >> luis gutierrez. >> stephanie: right back on "the stephanie miller show." [ ♪ theme ♪ ] >> stephanie: hour number two. current tv. jacki schechner, we were talking about the story about the tea party is at war with the karl rove g.o.p. establishment group. i don't mean for that to make me happy. but the other headline i just re

i was also in iraq in december december 04 and try to get in the parking lot at the abu ghraib present and of course they would not let a sane. my question is kind of the elephant in the room. i see our current military is dealing with the american people, who of course pay their way is dealing meant to disturb modes, one secrecy in one public relations. nicu is a master of one leg in each of those. you of course are one star prefer for the press. my question is given the vast amount of seat receipt that is necessary for the culture you're evolving, third really help me i would concede, it doesn't ever concern you what impact this has on democracy? and the citizenship it really doesn't know what the heck you are doing. to me it's a very important question and i think it would rest in the things you do and i wonder if that concerns you at all. >> if i understand your question right, and in many ways i'd argue that bit in the peace movement for a long time as well, if i understand your questioncome your way to put the balance necessary secrecy and wider secrecy because there is a certain

we haven't heard the other side of this also, chris, which is there's some abu ghraib in "zero dark thirtya movie that wasn't going to win it at the end because of the backlash. >> yeah. i think -- i think the academy awards you were saying is really our second great mood ring, like our presidential elections. they really tell us so much about ourselves. they focus on race in the two big movies. "django" and "lincoln." all about slavery. the first time i've ever seen a plantation since "gone with the wind." this was realistic. i thought seth macfarlane brought back the old days of song and dance. and i know i'm old-time on this, but i thought bob hope and johnny carson were fabulous. i know everybody likes billy crystal. he brought back show biz. he really tried. there were over-the-top jokes about getting into lincoln's heads. coming back 50 years later singing "goldfinger." >> i was trying to calculate it. the movie came out -- no, it was like '65. >> i saw it freshman year. i'm telling you, it was old. 50 years ago. they call her the tom jones of tiger bay. she's an amazing figure. and