this came from abu zubaydah.is in the brim, he is being tortured and he says shopping malls are going to be attacked. that goes out immediately as an orange alert to the united unitd states and affects all of our lives and it was complete nonsense. so one of the disadvantages certainly is, it can give terrible information. those who support using these techniques will say that is true but ordinary interrogations sometimes produce false information as well and that isn't decisive. that is not dispositive. but what i can say sitting here as there is rate deal of controversy among professionals about whether this is useful. there is not much controversy that the downside is very very severe on using these things. >> this is a parallel question to these comments. is it possible to protect our country without breaking the law? >> that is an eloquent answer synced away to put the matter. i think the answer to that is yes. i believe. in world war ii, when the stakes were certainly as high, when the scale of death was un

>> i was surprised at the youth of the people around abu zubaydah. qaeda fighters. they were barely out of their teens, they were young, scared, largely illino lly ill liiterat. >> you actually thought it best to tie him with a bed sheet to the bed but he comes out of this coma having been critically injured. what did he ask for? >> he first asked for a glass of red wine. the doctor thought maybe he was hallucinating and gave him some more painkillers that knocked him out for another few hours. but then when he woke up the second time he asked me to smother him with a pillow. he was very upset. he couldn't believe he had been captured. after a few hours he was able to calm down enough that we could have a couple of conversations. >> okay. well, unfortunately, we don't have time to get to the waterboarding. i spoke to you earlier about that. people can certainly take a look at your new book, "he reluctant spy my secret life in the cia's war on terror." >>> coming up, there could be a thanks. >> thanks for having me. >>> a new twist in the saga of ok t