yesterday we learned all this detail about the torture of abu zubaydah. people who tried to justify the way abu zubaydah got treated will often cite this ticking timebomb scenario, where a timebomb is ticking and the guy that knows where it's going to go off, you have to torture him to get information out of him quickly. you to torture people because you have to get them to talk fast. abu zubaydah, part of his torture was they put him in total confinement for 47 days before they asked him a single question, in order to soften him up. apparently they didn't think whatever he had to say was all that urgent. after 47 days of zero human contact, zero questioning, he went straight into 17 days of torture including waterboarding him over 80 times. we now have all this incredible detail about how they treated abu zubaydah. harrowing reading that case. but it is not a historical case. abu zubaydah still right now is in u.s. custody. he's still ours, still a guest of the u.s. taxpayers currently residing at guantanamo. these guys are still around. these things the

abu zubaydah was interrogated by suffant. contractors were sent in. they stripped him naked. blasted music in his cell. went ton to water board him. they were part after new cia torture program. they were sent to torture the prisoner even though he had already been talking without tore touring him. people make the case that rashalal for torturing people is that there is no time to waste. a time bomb is ticking somewhere. but the cia contractors who came in and took over for sufant and his partner seemed to have plenty of time for this guy. first stage was they put him in solitary confinement without human contact for 47 days before ever asking him a question. after 47 days of zero human contact they went into torture

many detainees to believe they would never be allowed to leave cia custody alive, suggesting to abu zubaydah that he would only leave in a coffin-shaped box. that's from a cia cable dated august 12th, 2002. cia officers also planned to crema cremate zubaydah should he not survive his interrogation. after the news and photographs emerged from the united states military detention of iraqis at abu ghraib, the intelligence committee held a hearing on the matter on may 12th, 2004, without disclosing any details of its own interrogation program, cia director john mclaughlin described that nothing was as they depicted where detainees were abused by american personnel. this, of course, was false. cia detainees at one facility described as a dungeon were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells with large noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste. the u.s. bureau of prisons personnel went to that location in november 2002. and according to a contemporaneous cia e-mail, told cia officers had never been, quote, in a facility where individuals are so sensory deprive

officers also planned to cremate abu zubaydah should he not survive his interrogation. source: c.i.a. cable july 15, 2002. after the use i the news, the ie committee held a hearing on the matter on may 12, 2004. without disclosing any details of its own interrogation program, c.i.a. director john mclaughlin testified that c.i.a. interrogations were nothing like what was depicted at abu ghraib, the united states prison in iraq where detainees were abused by american personnel. this, of course, was false. c.i.a. detaineeses at one facility described as a dungeon were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste. the u.s. bureau of prisons personnel went to that location in november 2002 and according to a contefn rainious internal c.i.a. e-mail, told c.i.a. officers they had -- quote -- "never been in a facility where individuals are so sensory deprived." end quote. again source: c.i.a. e-mail sender and recipient redacted, december 5, 2002. throughout the program, multiple c.i.a. detain

then you mentioned abu zubaydah earlier. he's the living proof of the fact that they have been deceitful about how that torture program contributed to getting evidence from him. as you know, you've had the fbi agent who was in charge of this on your show. that all came out before they brought in the torturer -- >> he provided useful information under fbi techniques that were not coercive. they started torturing him thereafter and got nothing else useful from him. >> they'll say that the torture program -- i should say that the interrogation program got this out. but what they don't distinguish is the legitimate interrogation done by fbi and cia officials and this ham handed, amateurish contractor run torture program which does not. >> senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island, i find you to be a clear speaker on these issues. >> good to be on your show. thank you. >> we've got a lot more ahead tonight including my other senate guest tonight who is elizabeth warren. that's just ahead. nose and relieve your other allergy symp

cables describing the interrogation sessions of abu zubaydah. it's been very difficult but i believe documentation and the findings' inclusions will make clear how this program was morally, legally, and administratively misguided and that this nation should never again engage in these tactics. let me now turn to the contents of the study. as i noted, we have 20 findings and conclusions, which fall into four general categories. first, the c.i.a.'s enhanced interrogation techniques were not an effective way to gather intelligence information. second, the c.i.a. provided extensive amounts of inaccurate information about the operation of the program and its effectiveness to the white house, the department of justice, congress, the c.i.a. inspector general, the media, and the american public. third, the c.i.a.'s management of the program was inadequate and deeply flawed. and, fourth, the c.i.a. program was far more brutal than people were led to believe. let me describe each category in more detail. the first set of findings and conclusions concern t

beginning with the first detainee, abu zubaydah, and continuing with numerous others, the s.d.i c.i.a. applied its sod enhanced intier ga interrogation techniques for days and weeks at a time on one detainee. in contrast, th to c.i.a. representations, detainees were subjected to the most aggressive techniques immediately -- stripped naked, diapered, physically struck and put in various physical stress positions for long periods of time. they were deprived of sleep for days. in one case up to 180 hours. that's 7 1/2 days over a week with no sleep, usually standing or in stress positions, at times with their hands tied together over their heads chained to the ceiling.

abu zubaydah was interrogated by suffant. contractors were sent in. they stripped him naked.sted music in his cell. went ton to water board him. they were part after new cia torture program. they were sent to torture the prisoner even though he had already been talking without tore touring him. people make the case that rashalal for torturing people is that there is no time to waste. a time bomb is ticking somewhere. but the cia contractors who came in and took over for sufant and his partner seemed to have plenty of time for this guy. first stage was they put him in solitary confinement without human contact for 47 days before ever asking him a question. after 47 days of zero human contact they went into torture including water boarding him. instead of talking, which he had been doing before torturing began, instead of revealing what he knew about al qaeda, well, the elite fbi interrogator, sufat, whose work to that point had been successful and productive, he described what happened next in that senate testimony in 2009 from behind that screen. >> when we ipter gated him, u

abu zabaydah that he would only leave in a coffin-shaped box. that's a cia cable from august 12, 2002. according to another cia cable cia officers also planned to cremate zubaydah should he notdh survive his interrogation. source, cia cable, july 15, 2002. after the news and photographs emerged from the united states military detention of iraqis at abu ghraib, the intelligence committee held a hearing on the matter on may 12th, 2004. without disclosing any details of its own interrogation program cia director john mcglocklin testified that ciaer interrogationse were nothing lie what was depicted at abu ghraib. the united states prison in iraq where detainees were abused by american personnel. this of course was false. cia detainees at one facility, a described as a dungeon, were kept in complete darkness, constantly shackled in isolated cells, with loud noise or music and only a bucket to use for human waste.ur the u.s. bureau of prisons personnel went to that location in november 2002 and according to a con tame rain just internal cia email told cia officers they had quote, never been in a facility where an individuals are so sensory-deprived, end quote. again

abu zubaydah repeatedly waterboarded became completely unresponsive with bubbles rising through his open mouth. internal cia records called a waterboarding 183 times a series of near drownings. torture that wasn't even effective, according to the report. >> it produced little useful intelligence to help us track down the perpetrators of 9/11 or prevent new attacks and atrocities. >> reporter: the cia issued a lengthy and detailed statement saying the program was legal and gained the country useful intelligence, but also acknowledging mistakes were made. barbara starr, cnn, the pentagon. >>> a united nations counterterrorism official says people who participated in the cia program are part of a, quote, criminal conspiracy and they must face justice. but will it ever happen? well, i talked about that earlier with cnn's senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. >> the one possibility, but it's very remote involves the concept known as universal jurisdiction. >> and how does that work? >> well, it hasn't worked very many times. the most famous example was when a prosecutor in spain sought to brin

thousands and thousands of absolutely verifiable intelligence came out of khalid sheikh mohammed, abu zubaydah. the information was no doubt accurate and helpful to us. >> i want to point out, bob, the current director of the cia, john brennan, he was a career cry official. but he was appointed, nominated to be the cia director by president obama. the cia yesterday put out a statement on this very specific point that we're seeing. it says, information that cia obtained from detainees through this enhanced interrogation, played a role in combination with other streams of intelligence in finding osama bin laden. so if john brennan and the cia say this right now, you say what? >> well, listen, i agree with bill harlow. the cia obviously has a position on this. they're not making things up. but what we really need to do is see the interrogation reports and compare them with all the other documentation. it may turn out that the cia is right. but right now, this has become too partisan. we're not getting at the truth. and i think it would behoove the cia to make its case just as it's made its case t

what the study ignores, however, is the fact that abu glueda's earlier -- zubaydah's interrogation did involve use of techniques that were later included in the list of enhance ed interrogation techniques. specifically, the facts demonstrate that abu zubaydah was subjected to around the clock interrogation that included more than four days of dietary manipulation, nudity and more than 126 hours, which is about five days, of sleep deprivation during a 136-hour period by the time the f.b.i. finished up the 8 1/2 hour interrogation shift in which abu zubaydah finally yielded the identification of jose padilla. so during a five-day time period, abu zubaydah got less than 10 hours of sleep yet the majority does not acknowledge this was an enhanceed interrogation. in light of these facts, the study's claims that the f.b.i. was exclusively using rapport-building techniques is nothing short of being dishonest. more important, the actionable intelligence gleaned from the enhanced interrogation of abu zubaydah that started in april of 2002 served as the foundation for the capture of additional t

abu zubaydah. he suffered sleep deprivation for 17 days as part of his interrogation. and that's just the beginning of it all. the brutality is shocking. the report reveals at least five detainees were subjected to what it calls rectal feeding. interrogation procedures that went on for months. at least one detainee died from hypothermia. >> stripped naked, diapered, physically struck and put in various painful stress positions for long periods of time. they were deprived of sleep for days. >> reporter: one detainee had his lunch pureeed and poured into his rectum. much of the information kept from president george w. bush's own secretary of state. >> there are cia records stating that colin powell wasn't told about the program at first because there were concerns that, and i quote, powell would blow his stack if he were briefed. >> reporter: a former top cia official says some of the details were held close. >> those who needed to know were absolutely brought in and made parties to the conspiracy. as i said, we were very, very clear about what it was that we intended t

we briefed her specifically on the use of the enhanced interrogation tech nieces on abu zubaydah. she knew back in september of 2002 every one of our enhanced interrogation -- >> let me ask you specifically. did you tell her about waterboarding? did you tell her -- >> gentlemen. >> yes. >> -- about sleep deprivation? >> yes, i did. >> did you telling her about slapping, pushing into walls, all of the techniques? >> i briefed her on all of the techniques. these people were fully aware of all of the techniques given to us and approved bit office of legal counsel at justice. >> and did, just to take the example you've given us, nancy pelosi, did she ever object to the techniques that you mentioned? >> she never objected to the techniques at all. the only one that objected to any of this, and it was more of a caution, was jane harman in 2003 when she says, be careful because the perception will be in the future that you did this to hide something. but she was the only person who objected to anything. >> how about jay rockefeller, chairman of the senate intelligence committee? there ha

. >> reporter: her report says abu zubaydah, a top al qaeda associate, spent a total of 266 hours inarge coffin-sized confinement box. at one point, waterboarding left him completely unresponsive with bubbles rising through his open, full mouth. in awcial the report says, at least 39 prisoners were subjected to harsh inderogation between 2002 and 2009, sometimes before conventionality methods had been exhausted. 9/11 mastermind khalid sheikh mohammed endured a series of near-drownings which prompted him to share false intelligence he later recanted. the tactics were devised by a pair of outside psychologists referred to as dunbar and zwiegert. the report claims neither had any experience as an interrogator, nor did either have specialized knowledge of al qaeda. yet the c.i.a. eventually outsowrsd 85% of the workforce for detention and interrogation to their company, paying them $81 million. at one detention site in afghanistan, the report says detainees were kept in total darkness, shackle to the wall in 45-degree temperatures. one prisoner died in 2002, apparently from hypothermia.

abu zubaydah became completely unresponsive with bubbles rising through his open full mouth.cia records called khalid sheikh mohammed's waterboardings close to drowning. >> it produced little useful intelligence to help us track down the perpetrators of 9/11 or prevent new attacks and atrocities. >> the cia did issue a detailed and lengthy response saying what it did was legal, that it did get intelligence that helped prevent future attacks but also acknowledging that some mistakes were made. carol? >> barbara starr reporting live from the pentagon this morning. >>> this new threat of extremist attacks brings fresh urgency to capitol hill. minutes from now, congress will refocus its scrutiny on the deadly failures to protect the u.s. consulate in benghazi. house select committee is reviewing the 2012 attack that killed an an ambassador and three other americans. what lessons have been learned and applied to protect u.s. facilities and americans abroad. cnn global affairs correspondent elise labott joins us from washington with more. >> good morning, carol. this house select p

they described brutal, round-the-clock interrogations, especially of abu zubaydah, in which multiple coercive techniques were used in combination and with substantial repetition. it was an ugly, visceral description. the summary also indicated that abu zubaydah and train 11 did not come as a result of the use of the so-called eit's, provide the kind of intelligence that led the cia to stop terrorist plots or arrest additional suspects. as a result, i think it's fair to say the entire committee was concerned, and it approved the scope of an investigation by a vote of 14-1, and the work you began. in my march 11, 2014, 4 speech about the study, i described how in 2009 the committee came to an agreement with the new cia director, leon panetta, for access to documents and other records about the cia's detention and interrogation program, so i won't repeat that here. from 2009 until 2012, our staff conducted a massive and unprecedented review of cia records. draft sections of the report were produced by late 2011 and shared with the full committee. the final report was completed in decemb

i want to correct one thing she said about abu zubaydah. he was denied sleep for seven days, not 17 days. during a 17-day period in the month of august, he was the victim of these e.i.t.s for some 17 days -- >> enhanced interrogation techniques? >> yes. 24/7. so there's confusion there and i wanted to straighten it out. i think you've done a good job certainly of hyping the warnings. is it possible that something would happen? yes. but it's possible that something happens even without this. there have been beheadings, there have been attacks without this report coming out. this doesn't mean that we shouldn't clean our house. it doesn't mean that an intelligence committee that has worked for 5 1/2 years to put together a cogent report that we believe will stand the test of time shouldn't release it. the world is an unstable place. you know as well as i do, isil is pure evil. they may seize upon it, they may not. but they are going to continue to behead, they are going to continue to destroy, they are going to continue to kill innocent people

>> reporter: a former cia official explained why they needed more from al qaeda suspects like abu zubaydah. >> he had stopped talking and we knew that there were threats against us including a second wave of attacks and we needed to do something different. >> reporter: democrats behind the reporter now questioning the current cia director, john brennan. >> you're comfortable with him running the cia? >> not at this point. john brennan on thursday really opened the door to the possibility of torture being used again. >> it probably would be a good idea in the future to have leaders of the cia come from outside of the cia. >> reporter: on that unprecedented news conference job brennan said there were some agents that may have gone too far but refused to call it torture. >>> it is another rainy week ahead for an already drenched california. meteorologist bill karins has more on that. good morning. >> just what the doctor ordered, right? >> they needed it for so long. >> the rain is coming down this morning in the bay area. another one to two inches possible, especially at any elevation. just

. >> and this one, to abu zubaydah, and laid in a coffin-sized box and 29 hour, and then depth of 2.5 feet, and a height of 2.5 feet, and on page 22, is that going to meet the definition of torture? >> that is one of the approved techniques. in terms of torture, i guess what i do, and i was struck for example by the statements by bud daye and leo forcnis and captured by the vietnamese and subjected to extreme torture and all of them said that waterboarding was not torture, and you can look for various definitions, and we did what was required and making sure that we were not violating the the law, and the law as interpreted by the justice department and the legal department was clear and the techniques use and the president authorized that produced results and gave us the information that we needed to safeguard the nation against further attacks and to track down those guilty of 9/11 did in fact work. now the senate committee and the partisan operation and none of those involved and the -- >> with well, the the cia -- >> and chuck, chuck, if you will look at it, and look at what those

. >> abu zubaydah, a top al qaeda associate, spent a total of 266 hours in a large coffin-sized confinement box. >> and this is not pleasant to recount, but many incidences of so-called rectal rehydration. ♪ i just gotta shake, shake, shake. ♪ shake it off, shake it off. whoo-hooo♪ sorry, you should probably get a pair of these tragedy-cancelling headphones. really makes it better. now, folks i gotta ask, what is the point of telling us all this rough stuff? no one still thinks that it's ever okay to do something like this. >> for the record, i still think it's okay to do something like this, as long as it's done in a fair way. i think the torture-- i'm sorry, the enhanced interrogation technique, i think it serves a purpose. >> stephen: another, okay. so eric is in favor of torture-- i'm sorry, torture-- if ( laughter ) ( applause ) if-- this is very important-- if it's done in a fair way. you know, as long as they bring enough human waste buckets for everyone in the secret prison. i am with fox's andrea tantaros who is stoked for america come whatev. >> the united states of america is awe

another, bin laden lieutenant abu zubaydah was waterboarded for 2 1/2 weeks 24/7 until he passed out. interrogators had to call in medics to revive him. 9/11 plotter khalid sheikh mohammed was waterboarded, nearly drowned 183 times, slammed against walls until, the report says, he started making up stories, a fake nuclear suitcase bomb and a claim that al qaeda was recruiting african-american muslims in montana. abdul al nashiri was blindfolded threatened with a gun near his head and ohio -- a cordless power drill, and given forced enem enemas. all this at first also hidden from the secretary of state colin powell. >> there are cia records stating that colin powell wasn't told about the program at first because there were concerns, and i quote, that powell would blow his stack. >> reporter: republicans warned the report could inspire more terrorism. >> it could be used to incite unrest and even attacks against our service members, other personnel overseas, and our international partners. >> reporter: so does cia director john brennan, acknowledging some mistakes but insisting the inte

there were 766 actionable intelligence reports written from abu zubaydah. common sense and lodge week tell you some of those were -- some of those reports were the result of statements that abu made after he went through the eit program. let me say this most of them -- mows of those reports came after that. once he broke then he was just a treasure trove of information. so that is kind of incontrovertible of those who were there who heard the intel reports come in. the other thing i would say is, with respect to those brave men and women at the cia, we know exactly where we were on the morning of september 11th. abu zubaday two of the individuals subjected to waterboarding were the masterminds of 9/11. they are the ones who told those 9/11 hijackers, take those box cutters, go slit the throats of airline pilots and take over the airliners, fly those airplanes in to buildings, they did it, they killed americans. americans were scared to death. they were frustrated. they were in mourning and scared to death that something else like this might happen again. tha

>> reporter: a former cia official explained why they needed more from al qaeda suspects like abu zubaydah. >> he had stopped talking and we knew that there were threats against us including a second wave of attacks and we needed to do something different. >> reporter: democrats behind the reporter now questioning the current cia director, john brennan. >> you're comfortable with him running the cia? >> not at this point. john brennan on thursday really opened the door to the possibility of torture being used again. >> it probably would be a good idea in the future to have leaders of the cia come from outside of the cia. >> reporter: on that unprecedented news conference that we saw at the cia last week, john brennan said, yes, there were some agents who went too far, but, angie, he stopped short of calling any of that torture. >> support and pushback for this program. we'll continue to hear it for sure. tracie potts on capitol hill, thanks. >>> well, we want to get down to business now with cnbc's landon dowdy. good morning, landon. >> good morning, angie. stock futures pointing higher af

for example, after three prisoners, abd al nashiri, abu zubaydah and 9/11 mastermind khalid sheik mohammed had all been water boarded, the c.i.a. halted the practice in 2003. now, the c.i.a. says the use of all enhanced interrogation techniques stopped in 2006 and was officially ended in 2009. but there's still an argument about the effectiveness of those harsh message. no one, scott, is openly advocating for those to be reinstated. >> pelley: bob, thanks. our congressional correspondent nancy cordes is on her post on capitol hill tonight. nancy, why is the report being released now in >> politics, scott. because this report is dianne feinstein's baby, and she will lose her chairmanship in just three weeks when republicans take control of the senate. there is no guarantee that her replacement, richard burr of north carolina, a republican, would be in any hurry to release it. he voted against it. and so, yes, she has faced a lot of pressure from the c.i.a., from republicans, from some in the administration who argue that releasing this report will make americans less safe, will anger our en

jon: so submitting abu zubaydah, subjecting him to waterboarding, that in your view is not torture? >> it was not. in my view and, you know, i give, somebody else an example one time, what would i do? say i'm dropping my granddaughters off at school and i see a guy run away from the school and able to capture him and find out he put a bomb in the school and will go off in 30 minutes. if there is water board there, am i going to hesitate a second? absolutely not. i think anybody, most liberal person i know say i will do what i have to do save my granddaughter, if i have a brick on the hand and spread-eagle i will drop the brick on his tis tickles. i will do what i can. people define torture, easy to be in plush senate office or button-downed college folks out of ivy league or never been in combat or tortured in prison, whatever, very different situation when you're there. when you're there, jon. jon: yeah. and how much of this is second-guessing? i mean we remember the entire nation was reeling in the days after 9/11 and we all thought another terror attack was imminent. and we wante

. >> reporter: the first terrorist detained, abu zubaydah, a key al qaeda operative, was waterboarded 83 times at a cia black site. after convulsing and vomitting, in one session he became completely unresponsive, with bubbles rising through his open, full mouth. kept in a coffin-size box for 11 days, he was told the only way he would leave the facility was in a coffin. today's report concluded that despite the extreme interrogation, zubaydah had no new information about future plots. eventually, even the cia team began to fall apart. "it seems the collective opinion that we should not go much further. several on the team profoundly affected. some to the point of tears and choking up." cia officers were operating at black sites from afghanistan to thailand to poland, interrogating 119 detainees and some of the interrogators themselves, the report says, included individuals with workplace anger management issues and had reportedly admitted to sexual assault. >> history will judge us by our commitment to a just society governed by law and a willingness to face an ugly truth and say neve

cables describing the interrogation sessions of abu zubaydah. it's been very difficult but i believe documentation and the findings' inclusions will make clear how this program was morally, legally, and administratively misguided and that this nation should never again engage in these tactics. let me now turn to the contents of the study. as i noted, we have 20 findings and conclusions, which fall into four general categories. first, the c.i.a.'s enhanced interrogation techniques were not an effective way to gather intelligence information. second, the c.i.a. provided extensive amounts of inaccurate information about the operation of the program and its effectiveness to the white house, the department of justice, congress, the c.i.a. inspector general, the media, and the american public. third, the c.i.a.'s management of the program was inadequate and deeply flawed. and, fourth, the c.i.a. program was far more brutal than people were led to believe. let me describe each category in more detail. the first set of findings and conclusions concern t

. >> you mentioned abu zubaydah.gated for 2 1/2 months but at no time did he provide operatives in or future attacks against the united states. any regrets about what was done to him? my question is are you different about what this report says under enhanced interrogation? >> look. the truth of the matter is since 2002 abu zubaydah had been severely wounded during capture, f and for a couple of months we were trying to talk to him, interrogate him in the company of the fbi. he gave up a couple of pieces of important information but after he regained his strength, he stopped talking. we knew there was an impending second wave of attacks coming, we knew we needed the information. we needed to find a new way to do this and the rest is history. the summer months of 2002, we put the program together, and in august for 20 days, we -- they went through the enhanced enteargation program and after that we started to systematically take down the organization. >> thank you, jose. >> all right. jose rodriguez. we'll have to lea

but if abu zubaydah is resi resisting -- >> so you think there's a direct link. >> it wasn't happeninge same time. that's the only reason he's not sure. and he's trying to walk a tight robe and i think it's unwise. >> the united states representative says there's no gray area involved in this discussion. he calls it a violation of international law. >> and he wants the u.s. to prosecute all of those who are responsible. here's what he told us. >> whether it produced actionable intelligence or not is irrelevant. prosecuting crimes of torture is an obligation resting on the united states. and whether or not actionable intelligence resulted makes no difference to the legal liability of those who committed crimes of torture. >> how do you foresee or do you foresee some kind of formal frame work to arrest and try the these? >> they already said they're not going to pursue it. >> the doj announced a policy that there would be no prosecution of officials who have acted in good faith. they were only ever going to be criminal investigations in respect to those few cases which as director brenna

joining me now the attorney who represents abu zubaydah. thank you for joining us.is your view of torture and what it achieves or doesn't? >> before i go to that, i have to correct something. you identified my client as a member of al qaeda, this report, this is the most comprehensive examination of all the material that's been collected since the program was created, makes clear that he was not. buried away on page 410 of the report -- >> just to make sure, you have to correct what i said if you're going to correct it. was he ever called a senior lieutenant? >> absolutely. the cia now agrees -- >> well, then don't correct me. >> i don't want to quibble. if you and i are in agreement that he's not the person they represented him to be, we'll move on. >> if you want to respond to what i said, okay. >> now you're asking me what i view about torture. i agree with joan, it's a bad idea, we shouldn't do it. it's wrong. >> do you think it achieves answers that are useful? >> the evidence in this case, it did not. what it uncovered is either false or could have been gotten