i abu zubaydah was one of them. one of the challenges of talking to a detainee and one of the challenges in discussing this in a public environment where we don't have the luxury of time that we have this auditorium is people will look at me every day and say welcome on, if you put somebody under duress they are going to lie. so let me explain as we went through that process with abu zubaydah y. and i'm not here to defend the program. i'm here because i thought the views of the cia should be explained so americans on either end of the spectrum those who want to attack what was done and those who supported and i hear both when i'm on the streets and understand what happened and why and will be able to walk in my college shoes and understand what they did regardless of whether i like it or not put on the foundational question of why would you pressure someone to speak with techniques like sleep deprivation because you know they are going to lie and my answer straightforward. first of all people not under duress of lie