us, department of emergency management, although that may have been federal, grants that we have accepteded in that people have been within the system due to grant-funded positions, but then those grants segue into general fund positions, that has never been calculated with regard to what the future liability may be? >> i believe the question that supervisor elsbernd was bringing up was if a grant continued say for a 10-year period. even if the employee leaves the city and county, the city would be continuing to pay a portion of the health insurance to the extent that the employee continues it. if an employee stays in the city, then absolutely that would be part of the calculation that is done in terms of our overall city work force. but i do believe that there are probably some instances -- supervisor mirkarimi: whether they are grant funded or not? >> right. but i do believe there are some instances where grants cover a period of time, and then once the grants expire, because we have been employing these individuals, we have been including them in the overall costs of ongoing fringe benef

the problem and the reason why that is better is instead of the government accepteding a check to somebody who makes $200,000 a year in retirement income let's not tax them. let's just not send the money to them. you don't want to tax them though because they are creating jobs. you don't want to take more money out of the private sector. >> schieffer: cut the federal work force by 10%? >> absolutely. >> schieffer: do you think that's do-able? >> well, the federal employees unions are pretty strong but you have to do it. at the very least freeze the hiring and then through attrition shrink it. i think you should shrink the federal work force and make their pay more comparable. right now the total compensation for government workers versus private workers is almost 2 to 1. >> schieffer: would you include the military in that? >> maybe there are parts in the military that could. but i think the soldiers should not have reduced pay. you look at what the average soldier makes it's not a lot of money. they're putting their lives on the line. i don't see reducing the pay of soldiers but there is