ackman unplugged. the hedge fund manager speaks to us live after sending herb al life shares plunging. we're also going to reveal one of the worst trades of 2012 coming up. first our top story, the markets and the cliff. all eyes on the nation's capital as the house is set to vote on speaker boehner's so-called plan b. it comes as the two sides seem to be moving apart and it your money caught in the middle. john harwood has the very latest on what could happen today. >> we've got the house of representatives preparing to vote on what speaker boehner calls plan b, to ins lut it it has also spending cuts to win over republicans who are reluctant to go along. democrats say it won't go anywhere in the senate. president obama says even if it does, i will veto it. but leader cantor said at least it something. >> absent a balanced offer from the president, this is our nation's best option. and senate democrats should take up both of these measures immediately. >> now democrats in the senate say they're not co

ackman and asked him to participate. mr. ackman said no and he refused. that this has been going on in the shadows, as we say for the last eight months. this is ridiculous what's happening here. we're not a pyramid scheme. that's a bogus accusations. we have millions of customers around the world. we don't pay for recruiting, been in business 32 years. we just announced a $100 million facility in north carolina employing over 500 people with the governor of north carolina this morning. this is a legitimate company. mr. ackman's proposition that the united states would be better when herbalife is gone. the united states will be better when bill ackman is gone. >> one of the folks that consider your company to be a pyramid scheme, something that's come to you in the country of belgium through a lawsuit and more recently today by bill ackman and others including david einhorn. are the sales confined to your own distribution network or is it broader than that? >> we have millions upon millions of customers. lieberman research was hired by us to go out and ver

kate that broke the news that bill ackman is short herbalife be sure to tune in when bill ackman will talk about the short. another first on cnbc interview. you want to tune in for more on this developing story. dr. j, you are often in momentum trades. this is one you are partaking in? >> no. for the exact same reasons that dan probably is not short this one. it was too confusing. i mean, yes, there were a lot of puts that traded, but again, they can trade on the bid, which means they were sold, that's what dan saw, that's what i saw. so, to us, it didn't -- that wasn't the drtrigger. i want to see people wbuying pus on the offer. and obviously tomorrow, just ahead of expiration, that's when the unarer really meets the road. >> dr. j, thank you for coming by. john najarian of option monster. let's separate out whether or not you want to be short. the fundamental case and karen, i turn to you, but i know you've been gnc, some sort of a competitor to herbalife. this company has been in business for 32 years. most recently, they've put up 15 straight quarters of positive earnings surpris

ackman because after that interview, bill ackman talked to kate kelly and said he is not in any sort of options strategy. yes, there was unusual activity in the terms of the puts that expire this friday but as for mr. ackman, he says he is not involved with any of those. >> is it possible that other people could be aware that he was going to do something like this? >> the question is that illegal? it is not. if bill ackman said -- if i'm bill ackman, jim cramer, imcome out with a neg tifr position on herbalife, you can go out and do whatever you want with that? >> yes. now, obviously, one of the things that you know about, there's a fomentation rule in 13 b. driving the stock down, someone to could say it is manipulation. johnson may not have his facts right. johnson has been on "mad money" a number of times. this is a total battleground. merrill lynch reity traits does make a lot of money. herb greenberg done fabulous work here. in the end, ackman is saying all they are doing is selling product from distributor to distributor and that is a ponzi scheme because it doesn't end with cu

no doubt ackman is a smart guy. what are they missing? >> well, i don't think they are missing really anything. >> what are they misunderstanding then? >> hang on. this time, this time you're not going to talk over me, okay? >> i'm brian. herb will talk over you later, probably. >> okay. sorry. >> no worries. >> the thing that we have been waiting for is something of substance. you know, now we've got it. now the answers can come and i think that's going to be healthy. that's great. mr. ackman made a -- >> there's was substance in the presentation, was there not? raising questions about the distributor network and the fees from royalties there. how it outweighs fees from retail sales. we did channel checking on ebay and to see if they were sold at a deep discount. herb, i can hear you clearing your throat. >> yeah. >> do you agree these are important questions to address? >> mandy, can i answer that first? >> just a secretary, guys. time-out for a second. time-out for a second. there was a question from kate. herb, you go first and tim wi

ackman has previously said to beware of companies. we asked to be part of the call today, he refused. his miss statements are mistakes are too numerous to address immediately. once again, michael johnson, their ceo yesterday, called claims being called bogus, add matly denied they are a pyramid scheme. sounds like we will hear more in the days to come. >> i wonder if they will address the issue ever buying back their own stock with which mr. ackman says they are doing today. >> a perfect storm is brewing in washington and at this hour. the house gets set to vote on plan b which the white house has said is a nonstarter. house speaker boehner will hold a news conference in about 15 minutes or so. we will take it live here. first, to john hart wood at the white house. john? >> sue, we've had a pretty relentless game of messaging bing pong between democrats and republicans today. we hear from eric cantor about plan b that house intends to take up. then we heard from harry reed, now just behind me, jay carney is briefing. but bottom line f

you had bill ackman come out last week.ou had whitney tilson say today, yes, i'm shorting the stock also and ackman's analysis was some of the best research he said he'd seen in years. herbalife is not taking this situation lightly, and they are really doing all they can here to try to instill some sort of investor confidence within -- within the investor community, but, you know, whether that happens obviously remains to be seen. >> 342 slides will do that to you, steven. i can get the investment banking and i can understand the buyback and the analyst day. trying to get my head around the hiring of david boies' law firm. >> it's unclear what is going to come from that relationship, but i think one thing and the grand takeaway is herbalife is pulling out all the stops here to try to instill confidence, that the stock slide here has gone too far too fast and that they are a sustainable business model. analysts have come out in defense of herbalife and say, you know something, the company has reported better than expected ea

talking about bill ackman's latest short target which is herb herbalife. came on our air earlier to refute charges that the company is nothing more than a pyramid scheme. >> this is about bill ackman's business model and appears to be another attempt to illegally manipulate the market by a group of short sellers. here's what we know and let me give think quickly. an extraordinary number of puts on our stock were due to expire this fry. we previously learned this activity was pegged at some kind of, quote, significant event. mr. ackman suddenly announces he will make a presentation on herbalife on thursday. the day before the puts expire. now we know what this has been going on for in the shadows, as we say, for the last eight months. this has been ridiculous what's happening here. >> bill ackman called me shortly after that johnson interview, and he wanted to make a couple of points. first of all, he says he has no put options in herbalife, only a short sale position, only an equity position. he says he's never spoken to another short seller about the stoc

coming up with maybe all 320 pages, that's how long it was, of ackman's presentation. so they will come back and good on the aggressive the week of january 7. they need it. >> and to remind everybody. bill ackman came out with a short and said it is a pyramid scheme. >> the last 24 hours have been a doozy for rimm. the stock surnled as it lost less money that forecast. josh brown on twitter was like, don't print the shirt yet, sulli. it changed in revenue model and stock fell. down again today. rim ceo was saying basically everything's fine because the blackberry 10 will be a game-changer. so let us bring in the aformentioned josh brown. he made big bet on rim. and i want it mention josh to our viewers. some on twitter didn't understand it. it wasn't, pick any stock you want. we gave you guys either boring slow growth stocks or high risk names to choose from. i want it make sure everybody knows that. it wasn't like this is some great pick you picked out of 5,000 stocks. >> no. if i today do it again, without knowing what happened in the year since, i would probably sti

this is going after ackman. there could be some tortious interference here.e'll have to see how big they can make. >> barry manilow, really? >> that was a song. >> come on. >> i'm with weiss on that. i don't know. >> everybody is thinking it. he said it. >> he's the man that wrote the song. >> christmas dinner with barry. >> here it is. >> we know what he got for christmas. >> it's an emotional time of year now. >> who gave it to him. >> we know what he got. >> are you going to let any lyrics come through? all right. we'll move on as "the wall street journal" highlights, the turf wars between apple, amazon, google is heating up. let's trade it. between apple, between google, between amazon and facebook, which stock is going to emerge as the biggest winner next year? >> apple and google, i stick with apple. we've been talking about it for a month. i continue to pound the table on the selling. for that reason alone i think that stock actually can beat out google. you bring up amazon/facebook. that's intriguing to me. i'm an owner of facebook, been an owner. i c

about 12 bucks still below where it was when bill ackman famously came out with the presentation andefended the company. herbal life has gone back on the aggressive day january 10th. herbal life up one of the best performing in the market today. i have to correct something pete najarian said. you said we have no certainty. >> do that at your own risk. >> we have a lot of certainty. we are certain there is uncertainty . there you go. a great call actually. >> count on sully to shine some light. >> i'm tired. give me a break. >> i want to write that down. let's talk herbal life. it is not the only stock that's been hammered that's come back this week as the end of the year has approached. what in the world would do you with this one if anything? >> i think you've got a real shot here. i think jimmy cramer said it when he talked about tortious interference and so forth. basically they're going to be going after ackman and the folks that have come after them so aggressively. i think they've hired up david boyes law firm, did microsoft and the u.s. and bush vs. gore. this is the law firm

bill ackman of hedge fund pershing square called the nutrition company a pyramid scheme and presented reasons why he's shorting the stock. michael johnson, the ceo of rbalife, issued a statement denying herbalife's business model is built on a pyramid scheme. johnson is also asking the sec to investigate extraordinary put options buying the stock that expire tomorrow. puts are bets the stock is more likely to go down than up. it was a slippery second quarter for darden and scholastic. earnings disappointed at both companies. at darden, income fell by 37%. last month darden, which runs olive garden and red lobster, faced pushback after its ceo said it would hire more part- time employees due to the expense of health care reform. superstorm sandy and failed promotions also hurt profits. meanwhile, at publisher scholastic, profits are down 25% after disappointing sales of the book turned movie "the hunger games." the company said it will freeze hiring as part of an overall effort to save 20 to 30 million dollars. a picture perfect problem for popular instagram. the photo sharing tool rec

ackman's premise and interpretation of our business model apart.ertain i a he said/she said case but the stock is reflecting ackman shorting the stock. tracy: crazy stuff, nicole. we'll be back in 15 minutes. ashley: time to make money with charles payne. there he is. checking profits on a previous recommendation and giving us a new stock. charles is spoiling us for christmas. >> i have been rocking in december. i'm telling you. this feels like low-hanging fruit, right? carmax, couple weeks ago after the hurricane. ashley: yeah. >> today nicole is reporting on it. stock at new 52-week high. one you would hold. i had a play earlier up big. dennis i told sell half. why would you sell half of what you like. that is biotech company with very little to know revenue. this is company, all the dem of course gras and trends going in their favor. our cars are still 11, 12 years old and people will buy new ones. tracy: this is not one you would sell half. >> no. tracy: tell us about the new one, because i love it. >> shutterfly. one of the companies i always

violence across the country well as a reaction to the primary referendum results from egypt opposition ackman howry from the eldest party headed by mohamed el baradei told me that allegations of vote rigging must speak investigated this constitution and the shirts around is is a disgrace to a nation that far hard for its freedom and for its rights it's a document that rips rips out all the all the rights that we have learned and try to constitute a dictatorship and it has been taught by a referendum that was a massive massive rigging for the ballot boxes massive rigging for the voice of the people physically see tens and hundreds of schools tens and hundreds of schools where the ballot boxes and the referendum process was taking place at a convenient time when when the voices were very all the pool saw that the people were voting no the power was cut off the most about the night if movie asked judges and employees and that's called shuts down the school over. in the front of the voters and the state with the ballot boxes not overseas for hours and hours we do not recognise any results unless

here's what he said in the press release about ackman.rted outdated and inaccurate information. that's why they went to the analysts' meeting in order to refute all of ackman's claims. this is something we'll continue to watch. herbal life trading a little bit higher, so we'll watch that. several states and the white house, observing a moment of silence, exactly one week after the school shootings in newtown. connecticut governor dannell ma malloy to ring their bells. the nasdaq with a moment of silence prior to the actual trading day. >>> the bell has rung. over at the nasdaq, intest corporation, temperature management's products for semiconductors. no surprise here at the open, the nasdaq is now down almost 2%. 1.8%, the loss at this early hour. shares of apple are down 2%. across the board pretty much. these are sharp losses, jim. >> i would point out, if you want a stable situation, sussex petroleum is a limited partnership that gives you great yield. i'm looking for people to be able to pullback and say, listen, what is safety here?

you and bill ackman of pershing and i love this group of people.ot, okay, aside from you two. >> we've got mark la serrie at avenue. tony james the president of blackstone. obviously you mentioned bill at pershing. that is one, that luncheon is one of the auction items. liz: where is the lunch will be. we made it look like in my grandmother's saskatchewan. >> we'll do where the person wants in new york. we can't wait. we're very excited. took one phone call to bill, mark and tony to say this is for the rfk foundation. when you see things they're doing especially with medicine going to haiti and things like that, virtually actually. web-based ideas, it is just an easy sell. for me i was named after her dad. i'm robert. my brother is john, born 62 and '60. easy to be part of this. we called up paul volcker, obviously everyone in the country wants to hear paul's view on different things. liz: here's why. he solved stagflation in the '80s and saved our country in so many ways. interest rates were high but he figured it out. this is an incredible experi

and ackman pushed his case elsewhere for herbal life, made money on that side and this side of the trade just recently as this thing has flipped around. we talk about dying ground, they burned their bridges. >> the stock is down huge year-to-date. >> it's down but take that 42% pop i guarantee you shorts are not happy heading to 2013 given that. >> is jc penney shaping up to be the biggest surprise of 2013? >> as long as herb greenberg gets off it, yes. >> if ron johnson can turn it around or get a sniff turn around, if the stock is up 40%, you could get a blast to the upside, if the street turns its psychology on the other side of jc penney. >> since they burned their bridges. they told they're all in with ron johnson, obviously, many of these fund managers are all in with ron johnson, too. those are guys i don't want to bet against, especially the stock traded down to 16 bucks. >> in terms of psychology, everything we talked about from jason coming on the show, talk in ing about a bond friendly world to uncertainty, there's no room for error for investments. maybe jc penney works or be

. >> this is the ackman trade, correct?think it happens this year in 2013. >> okay. >> second one on that is gold. i think it goes above $2,000 an ounce. excess reserves come out of the federal reserve, into the economy. you start to get a pickup in inflation and that's going to drive gold higher, above $2,000 an ounce. finally, i think the euro goes above $1.50. remember, you have germany in there and a break. they will not print as many -- >> only a year. one year. >> guesses for one year. >> things can happen simultaneously, grasso. >> hold me back. >> what's going on? >> guy? >> let the other guys in. don't hong the ball. >> guy? >> oh, hi. >> hi. >> love that. great job by our crack crew with that great. >> silver. i think silver goes north of 40 you c bucks. i think silver, which is sort of under the radar screen, will catch up on the gold/silver ratio which is 15 to 1. i'm not saying the ratio is getting there but i think silver is going to explode. >> grasso? this is a bold prediction your part. >> i think the marke

the big news, bill ackman taking a short position in this stock, making his case today, not only at the conference in the heart of new york city, but then on cnbc. the company coming out trying to defend itself, but you'll see shares of hlf, that being herbalife, still down 10% at this hour. let's bring in allen valdez from dme securities. let me just ask you first about this deal. i.c.e. and the nyse, you're a trader. you make your living down on the floor of this new york stock

. >> that was big ackman earlier today.res of herbalife have tumbled roughly 21% since cnbc first reported on a short position in yesterday's session. dr. jay, when you heard he was donating the money to charity, you said, that's lame. why? >> spoken like a guy that doesn't short things. >> this is only his second short. >> yeah. >> exactly. >> but you don't apologize for it anymore you apologize for beating a team 72-0. if they're bad, you stomp them. i'm sorry, but that's the way it is. that's -- anyway. to focus in on what his problem is with the company, though -- >> brutal. >> the people being taken advantage of, i understand that. i think it's great to give money to charity. i'm not against that. but don't apologize for making money. he's apologizing here for making money. and i don't think -- >> which, by the way -- >> it's legitimately making money. >> it's a very clever self-sevening little -- play the violin. >> comes out the hero here. he's doing it for the people. >> you know, it reinforces that this guy's got t

also, herbalife is getting legal muscle to combat bill ackman's short posture against the company.he question is whether or not it's going to come to reinvestors. i'm down here at the stock exchange. back to you. >> lovely to see you, as ever. thank you very much. >>> gold trading close. we showed you a few moments ago t goldman sachs commodity index barely hanging on to gains this year despite a lot of losing bets, investors are still pumping billions into the sector. jackie deangelis is looking at the winners and losers. >> good afternoon. what we have seen a bit of a correction in commodities. if the index ends the year a little lower, it will be the first decline we've seen since 2008. but you're right, the commodities saw a lot of interest this year. money invested in commodity funds is up 86% year over year according to epfr global. what were some of the movers influencing the landscape? let's start with the laggards. coffee, sugar, cotton got hurt this year due to supply increases but the good news is that prices are close to the cost of production so analysts think that thi

asked all night since joining here is bill ackman wrong with herbalalife, i believe he is. >> we shouldreface this by saying there's no -- >> he's communicating with michelle caruso cabrera at one point over twitter. >> yeah. i don't know. >> he's very active. it must have been a slow night in the robertson house. >> total ruse, question mark, question mark. just like your take on hlf cmcr to mention a few. >> green mountain? >> obviously. who is he referring to? >> someone may have said something. >> like a reply. if he's using hashmarks, what do you use that for? >> that's how you delineate a chain of -- a discussion. so everybody can use the same hash tag and see what other people are saying. >> no kidding. that's why i always see those weird things at the end that make no sense. >> yeah. >> really? >> like hash tag, what i'm talking about. >> should i use that on all my tweets? yeah. >> i don't -- hash tag, i don't understand twitter. if somebody wanted to respond, they would also say hash tag, i don't understand twitter. >> anyone in the twitter universe -- >> you could click it an

ackman. >> they also hired shiller, the law firm. why they would hire a law firm at this point. no reason given. they have hired them, which is another, hmm, wonder what they're up to kind of move. bob pisani is on the floor with what's moving today. >> we're up 24 points in the dow. and a lot of people think a grand bargain is impossible at this point. but president obama coming back from vacation in hawaii. that's an indication that some kind of deal -- however small -- is definitely coming. i want to point out, and i know you've been negative on this mastercard data on retail sales, and everybody thinks it's going to be a mess for the holiday season. i want to point out that the stocks are not acting that way. that this is a disaster for the season. the s&p retail index hit an historic high on december 3rd. historic high. since then, it has only been down about 3%. these stocks are not acting like there's a disaster. i can give you several reasons why they're not down so far. number one, we are going to see eps growth in the fourt

. >> i'm going to be sitting down with bill ackman later today after his presentation for an interview you'll be able to see during the "fast money halftime report." >>> shares up for plaquerock unusually today. peter joins us from the jeffries trading floor today in new york. peter, you have a lot of different scenarios, but the most likely scenario that you think is that the blackberry fails, there is no acquisition on this and the cash firm continues? >> yeah. we think it costs about $1 billion to launch these devices. if successful, we think an access possibility goes up. if not, we see the company become much, much smaller a year from now. >> how do you measure success? and when we we know on this? >> we'll probably know around around/may next year. success would be call it 3 to 5 million units in the first quarter out of the gate and 5 million units plus after that. to us, that would be a very good launch. >> for anybody who is actually a blackberry user still, what do you say about these things? if there's a takeover, does that mean blackberry continues? what's the long-term out

bill ackman of pershing talking about the fact he thought it was a pyramid scheme. say in a negative way of herbalife. now reportedly working with a law firm on this so obviously you can see here right now is up about 7%. herbalife obviously says his whole attack is malicious and without basis. >>> we'll look at apple. apple on the move, one of the big tech movers. in this case a tech mover to the downside. tech-heavy nasdaq has been down half a percent. apple is down $4.54 at 515 and change. certainly, lori and tracy, nowhere near that $700 it was in the middle of september when we were talking about 800, a thousand. now everybody is hoping it holds the 500 mark. lori: you can't dip your toe into apple because even at 500 bucks a share it is still pretty rich. >> everybody still wants the product. it's a holiday gift. >> you hit the nail on the head nicole as always. back again in 15 with you. we were talking about this a little earlier. starbucks is urging washington to come together on the fiscal cliff literally. we have video from d.c. starbucks ceo howard schul

is dick sporting goods followed up by kohl's, grocery coupons, and don't tell ron johnson or bill ackmaney rounded out the top four. >>> tomorrow on "squawk box," negotiating a deal on the fiscal cliff. we'll talk about possible paths to a compromise with our guest host former treasury secretary larry summers. >>> plus, the ceo of caterpillar will give us the business perspective on the deficit disaster. you can't afford to miss "squawk box" tomorrow starting at 6:00 a.m. eastern. if you think running a restaurant is hard, try running four. fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 this morning, i'm going to trade in hong kong. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 after that, it's on to germany. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 then tonight, i'm trading 9500 miles away in japan. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 with the new global account from schwab, tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i

ackman, who is extremely eloquent, and can be quite insightful as well. you wonder whether it's not sort of yet a new pathway for activists, investors to really come after companies, certainly here on the short side. of course, he said all his profits from the short sale will go to charity. it's an interesting dynamic. one wonders, given his history as well, with these public pronouncements from way back, he doesn't seem reluctant to go at it, even though he's been criticized in the past. this is many years ago, close to sort of crossing a line, that some regulators, at least -- >> talking on the street. he did it with -- >> particularly on the negative side. particularly on the negative side, short side. but it's not illegal. >> the journal this morning, we had david from discovery on in the past week or so. the company's potential to raise ad rates is pretty good while keeping margins high. it's worth the premium that it commands, and that fits into the entire story that we went over with him when he was on the other day. >> international such an import

people who sell herbalife it is a system of belief and interesting to see how they counterattack bill ackmaneks ahead it is coming. >> yes. no. we are all hoping that activism has a long shelf life in 2013 because it has made fodder for a lot of news, especially the last couple of weeks. dennis, thanks for coming n >> appreciate t >> dennis berman of the "wall street journal.." >>> japanese yen a stellar runt last few mount, find out how the fiscal cliff in the u.s. could derail all of zwloochlt first, we will head live to washington where congress is returning to work after their christmas holiday. any hope of getting a fiscal cliff deal done in time? we are back after a quick break. and i'm here to tell homeowners that are 62 and older about a great way to live a better retirement. it's called a reverse mortgage. [ male announcer ] call right now to receive your free dvd and booklet with no obligation. it answers questions like how a reverse mortgage works, how much you qualify for, the ways to receive your money, and more. plus, when you call now, you'll get this magnifier with l.e.d. lig

i interviewed bill ackman yesterday and he made a real case that this was a deceptive, fraudulent, companytalk about whether any of the stuff actually worked. >> we didn't even talk about that. it was almost like a public service message he was trying to deliver. almost less to do with an investment thesis but some of the other things. >> we've got to go. >> rick for the personal income numbers. >> income up 0.6%. spending up 0.4%. you know these numbers at least pass muster with regard to expectations. we're looking for up from both. the revisions were actually absolutely positive from unchanged on the income originally released up 0.1, and down 0.2 to down only 0.1. durable goods orders up 0.7. up 0.7 is also better than expected. and last month, was revised from unchanged up 1.1%. so these are pretty solid. if you take extransportation that was up 1.6. from my vantage point, don't see anything on the numbers that's horrible. i don't see the durable goods orders nondefense exaircraft for business capital spending but maybe steve will pull that one out. all in all, you know, we're down 18