adam neumann basically is expected to step down as we company's ceo. journal." >> it's been two years since the downfall of wework. there were many troubles facing the company long before the departure of its ceo adam neumann in the fall of 2019. joining us now, maureen farrell, the author of a new book. maureen, thank you so much for being here. we're all thinking more about work spaces right now, right? companies are having their workers come back to the office. many are delaying it because a rise in the delta variant and people are rethinking whether they need to work at home or come into the office. this is something you've been thinking about for a long time, wework and the ceo. what are some of things you've learned while reporting for "the journal" and writing your book, the whole concept? >> the concept is a really interesting one. it's an interesting moment as you said right now for this company, for the shared workspace company. people can -- big companies can move in and out and take as much or as little space as they want. the interesting t

. >> and one is adam neumann adds his company and one at work and constantly those questions were hardo separate. they created a school called we grow and that is going to be the futurec of education and what it really came down to with all these conversations they had five children they wanted specific things for their children and they have their children in the school and it was essentially the only school. even the ways they acted towards the school were very much about their children and there was a lot of frustration from the teachers there about how rebecca neumann his wife ran the school and the decision she made so there was no true separation and it bled into every facet of their life in the company with this teacher. >> the cultish aspect which is the title of the book and rebecca who is the cousin of -- and we will get to a little bit of the actual persona of the individuals in a the moment because that's another fascinating thing. i want to get all that more on the metrics or black thereof because that's an important point for our audience so just talk a little bit about c

adam neumann, i mean what he did i think was much more a magician. you know, don't look here. look here. and mostly people looked here, and he would say, you know, the numbers are going to be this. if you look back, they didn't -- you could see the metrics if you were going to come in and invest and what their previous projections were, where they -- what they've hit, and they didn't hit their projections. they never did. i think in a lot of ways, yes, he lied, and he lied about taking money out. there were things -- the truth wasn't there. i mean some people in his defense have told us that with the profitability, they will say in his mind there was asterisk with community-adjusted ebitda, i don't know whether i believe it. he didn't -- it was not outright fraud. it was just, you know, changing the truth and making you think something else and masterfully, manipulative, whatever it was, but i mean the numbers, if you wanted to invest in this company, even as the private markets don't have the same rules as public market companies, there was a lot you could see that it never l