adam serwer joins us tonight.> thank you. >> the last part is a key part which is it's more than rhetoric, it's policy, that this cruelty was substantiated. talk about what you mean by that? >> so obviously cruelty is an individual problem. all human beings of capable of cruelty. but the book is really focussed on cruelty as a part of politics. and from the beginning of donald trump's 2016 campaign, he was all about attacking groups that were seen as external to the republican coalition and blaming them for the struggles of his base in a way that would allow him to engage as president to justify using state force against religious and ethnic minorities that he blamed for the country's suffering. and i think our system and partially incentivizes this because between gerrymandering, between the electoral college, our system enhances the influence of the most conservative elements of the electorate. so it becomes more urgent to tell that group that they're on the verge of destruction. and that's how you end up with p

adam serwer is -- barbara mcquade is a former prosecutor and they both join me now. am, i couldn't get over the fact of how much race and racial animus and racial hatred and racism hung over the day and i want to play one officer hodges who himself is white said when he said -- here's why i called these folks white nationalist and there's an anecdote i found really telling and i wanted to get your reaction to it so take a listen to what officer hodges had to say. >> the crowd was overwhelmingly white. males usually a little bit older, middle aged and older and some younger. they didn't say anything, especially xenophobic to me but to my black colleagues and anyone who's not white and some of them would try to recruit me. one of them came up to me and said are you my brother? there are many known organizations with ties to white supremacy and had a presence there. the three percenters, oath keepers, that kind of thing. and everyone i've ever -- people who associate with donald trump i find more likely to subscribe to that kind of belief system. >> a moment they're adam

. >> joining me now live from texas, adam serwer, author of "the cruelty is the point" which is now in bookstores that you should absolutely pick up. adam, abbott seems -- the uniform intensity and focus on this agenda not just on the state of texas is always so striking to me. they're more focused on this, it seems an almost on anything else. abbott use this as a challenge that he seems happy to take. >> well i think there are a couple of things going on here. one is that texas republicans did very well on the last election. they have no reason to be concerned about their ability to hold on to the state. they're proceeding with this election though because ideologically, they are invested in disenfranchising the other parties constituency as a matter of principle and not simply as a matter of survival. second, this is a pretty conservative state. so if abbott is not concerned -- if he's talking about bringing the texas democrats back at gunpoint, he's not concerned about facing a liberal backlash in texas. he's concerned about primary challenges to his right. so there's nothing he can

leading off our discussion tonight, is adam serwer author of the cruelty is the point. also with us jelani cobb professor of university have journalism at columbia and an analyst. so jelani cobb i want to begin with you, the people have been following donald trump four years, and following his cruelty, they will, on both sides of this, not be surprised to hear him quoted as saying that he admires hitler for a lot of good things, he says. >> yeah, it is an extraordinary statement. on the other hand, we did not a private regulation for john kelly, a man who after all, spends a great deal of time trying to get donald trump to carry out his agenda to understand what donald trump is about. donald trump has illustrated, from the beginning, that a part of his appeal is his targeting a vulnerable consist didn't contingencies, ethnic minorities, with. foresee use those communities as an existential threat, and he exploited their fear. he exploited their fear by acting cruelly towards those communities when he was president. >> professor cobbe, when i read that quote to bury, i w

adam serwer joins me on his phenomenal new book, why the cruelty extends beyond the past four.s after this. hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor? sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage so we don't have to worry about it" conversation. so you're calling about the $9.95 a month plan -from colonial penn? -i am. we put it off long enough. we are getting that $9.95 plan, today. (jonathan) is it time for you to call about the $9.95 plan? i'm jonathan from colonial penn life insurance company. sometimes we just need a reminder not to take today for granted. if you're age 50 to 85, you can get guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance starting at just $9.95 a month. there are no health questions so you can't be turned down for any health reason. the $9.95 plan is colonial penn's number one most popular whole life plan. options start at just $9.95 a month. that's l

democrats had more meetings with the clintons and georgia's stacey abrams, and joining us now is adam serweriter for "the atlantic" and the latest piece is "the democratic leaders are betraying the blackvoters." tell us why you wrote something that incendiary? >> well, you have to raise the expectation of that statement saying that you will do something with the federal power that you acquire to protect the rights of the constituents who are the target of legislation that is an attempt to either diminish their access to the ballot or diminish their political influence on the electoral process. if you are not willing to do that, then you are asking for the votes without giving them anything in return. >> i want to draw you out on something that you wrote in the "atlantic" piece, because you say this about the democratic vote sers. the targeted constituencies must treat every election cycle as if their fundamental rights are on the line, and to listen to the democrats target the rights to the franchise as the new jim crow and then watch the same leaders do knotting with the power they are give

joining me now is adam serwer. ." >> adam, very excited to have you here. this book is so amazing. i was texting you and i was reading, you are so dope. you really cover a lot in here. you don't just talk about trump. you write that people and in order for white supremacy and racism to work, one side have to paint the other as the enemy and be convinced this other side is going to destroy them and set out to destroy them. why do you think that people assume people of color, the majority of this country is seeking to industry them? >> part of this is, first of all, thank you for that kind introduction. i think our system as it is set up really incentivizes that kind of politics. the structure of our system allows one party to hold power without winning the majority of the votes. it is what you see on fox news every night, the liberals are going to do x, y, and z and they're going to ruin everything and impose socialism or communism or whatever. this is how you justify a system that's disenfranchise and people denying

adam su -- adam serwer of "the atlantic" is a terrific writer and an honest one. i don't always agree with his ideas but i know he is going to play it straight, think hard and write well, and those are qualities i admire. in some ways, political disagreement is less important than admiration for a writer as a writer. i wish we had more of that, but we seem incapable of admitting that we like someone's work if we disagree with their politics. thomas: i blame social media for that, in so many ways. this is from another anonymous -- do you think there is anything potentially positive about nationalism that can be used in the 21st century? or has that well been completely poisoned by trump's spin? george: here is another word i would take back. not nationalism, which has the connotation of aggression, maybe hatred, violence, exclusion, but patriotism, which doesn't mean beating down other countries and forcing our way on them and chanting usa, usa. patriotism, i think of it as an extension of family loyalty, similar to the love and loyalty of my family which, no matte

adam serwer recently wrote a piece in "the atlantic" where he essentially says democratic lawmakers areey believe that racism in the republican party gives those voters no viable alternative essentially. do you agree that democrats are taking black voters for granted, especially because the white house has said, well, people will just outorganize voter suppression? >> what i believe is that this is not jim crow, this is james crow, esquire. when you look at these voter suppression bills across the country, they're going after everybody, black folk, white folk, black folk, native, asian people, the disabled, women. we've got to look at what this is. now, race is certainly there, but it's also connected to power and economics because the same people that are suppressing the vote, suppress living wages, suppress health care. so what democrats have to decide, you ran on this and said you were going to do this. you said you were going to deal with voter suppression and deal with living wages, those two things. we've already seen the filibuster block living wages. now we see it blocking votin

adam serwer

plus the cruelty in the criminal justice system we'll talk to adam swer $serwer about his new book.uary 6th. a congressman will talk to me about the house committee investigating the insurrection live in los angeles. it's a jam-packed show a lot to get to. a quick story i want to plug. we're talking about -- i don't know if you heard about this -- black tiktok user are boycotting the platform citing cultural appropriatation. we'll talk to those folks and the impact it had on a new album. a lot to get to. >> are you adding an extra hour? that's a lot. i'm sorry you're there. i'm here at 30 rock. one of the days we'll run into each other. don't miss tiffany on the cross-connection starting 10:00 a.m. eastern. free on technicality. out of prison but not exonerated which raises the question, can it happen again? the former special prosecutor in the case says, quotes, it makes me sick to my stomach. we'll speak to her next. to my s. we'll speak to her next. when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as