rex tillerson, secretary of state at the time, walks into the oval ofls afice, and the president's personalttorney rudy giuliani and mike mckazy was sitting there. he had a client that was facing charges in new york for violating laws. the president gives this pitch. they make the pitch to tillerson, and tillerson says, i cannot support that. first of all, it would be interfering with a court proceeding, something this man is already facing charges in new york. secondly, it would be bad u.s. policy for you to be able to set an example, a precedent, that you can trade people away who -- essentially americans could be targeted for being hostages overseas if you do something like this. so tillerson refused to go along with this. in our reporting, we found that mckazy also spoke with the president and said, look, this is within your power to do. you could do this. the president essentially left it up to them to try to work it out. in the end tillerson did not do this. the justice department did not go along with this. we know that rudy tried to get the justice department to do it. they declined