we obviously have judge aileen cannon who has granted trump lots of latitude in that case.o the acts of a former president after they leave office. >> lisa rubin, a mere two hours ago, i asked you if it was strange that we had not yet gotten this filing from team trump. and i feel like that answer has boomeranged back on us. as always, thank, you my friend. we're gonna take a quick break. we'll be right back. be right b. (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. ♪ ♪ wake up, gotta go! c'mon, c'mon. -gracie, c'mon. let's go! guys, c'mon! mom, c'mon! mia! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ my favorite color is... [ imitating trombone ] because, it's like a family thing! [ engine revving ] ♪ ♪ made it! mom! leave running behind, behind. the new turbocharged volkswagen atlas. does life beautifully. i love your dress. oh thanks! i splurged a little because liberty mutual customized my car i

aileen cannon is putting peoples lives in danger. she is going to force jack smith to tell trump to the fbi agents are, who searched mar-a- lago. she is threatening to turn over the witness list in the mar-a- lago trial to the public, climate that the public has a first amendment right to discovery materials. i don't want to get into the federal rules of criminal procedure here, chris, but that is just wrong. it is black letter law wrong. and the fact she is so shamelessly pushing this nonsense suggests to me, maybe it is time for us to adopt, not a trump-like view towards the judiciary, but a very jaundiced ought for serpent judges who seem to be doing everything in the power and then some to help trump avoid all accountability. >> okay, that was -- let's go through these to rulings. that ruling today was basically, you know -- i write the rolling, and again, it's a little complicated because it's and a bunch of procedural language. but they're basically saying, throws an ongoing investigation into witness tampering? right? witnesse

district judge aileen cannon, at times it sounded like an opening argument to a jury trump could face in the future or the first chapter of a report

he met with aileen cannon. it was supposed to conclude at 2:00. been waiting to see that caravan of suvs leave the federal courthouse behind me. and starting at 3:00, special counsel jack smith's team gets to meet with aileen cannon without the defense side present, to deal with outstanding issues from when special counsel jack smith met with aileen cannon on january 31st. cipa, the classified information procedure act, they are specific when it comes to process. the hearing taking place today is a part of that particular classified information procedures act. what's interesting is the fact that donald trump himself arrived at the courthouse today to sit in a courtroom with the judge that's presiding over his criminal case without the prosecutors being present. in addition, though, his codefendants, walt nauta and carlos were not allowed to be present today. explaining their theories of defense, and the government will meet with the judge to explain why certain classified documents should not be turned over at all or perhaps in a redacted or subst

aileen cannon down in florida really seems to be slow walking this. will wrote, i think, the definitive piece on aileen cannon and her experience, as far as overseeing this case. and it feels like she's telling the trump line on this. >> the problem that she has is, when this all started, and it all came out that he was under investigation for the documents, she made these rulings that legal experts and judges above her looked at and said made no sense, relating to whether the government, what the government can do with the evidence they took from donald trump's from mar-a-lago. and out of all the judges that could have gotten the case, she now has the actual case. she is someone, as we detailed, it has extremely little experience, has a highly complicated case in front of her, as shown unusual leanings towards trump, and can very easily make sure that this can have this trial not happen until after the election. >> and is skillfully not saying explicitly i'm going to push this. but it's kind of like death by 1000 cuts. small incremental delays that s

is this a harbinger of trouble with aileen cannon or smith's team worrying about trouble with aileen on? >> there's no doubt that it captures concerns on the part of smith's team that the judge and the potential juror pool is being exposed to claims that they believe are incorrect and perhaps mendacious about the way the prosecution has acted. and there's one thing that actually is, i believe, news in this document that captures that theme. trump's lawyers had argued that jack smith and the people on the prosecution team had failed to share all the material they want is and specifically argued that not everyone who needed to see closed caption tv footage from mar-a-lago had received full access to that footage in the way that they needed. jack smith's response to that in this document, and he says, actually, we bent over backwards to provide this footage to people. we've even given hardware to lawyers so they can look at it. there's a line that jumped out, smith's prosecutors write during a phone call, counsel for one of trump's co-defendants, a lawyer for one of trump's co-defendants

. -- in florida for a closed-door meeting with judge aileen cannon about trump's classified documents case which is set to begin in may. there are questions about whether that will push back as well. and as political points, out each day that trump's criminal cases are delayed, raises the possibility that the opening days of his trials could be pushed to late summer or fall, or potentially even after the election. but today, donald trump was focused on his standing with union members. he went to washington to meet the teamsters leadership in an effort to lay the ground for an endorsement. the teamsters, they were not quite ready to take that step. >> we had a very productive meeting, stranger things that happened. usually a republican when you we didn't get that endorsement, they thought we should come over and pay our respects, and as you know a big part of the voting bloc votes for me. a very big part. >> we have a long way to go before we make a decision, -- you are going to support our issues, in time need you will step up and do what is right by working people in this country. >>

i agree with you, i think aileen cannon is going to keep this on the may trial daca. thank you so much for being here, joyce. it's always so good to see you. and coming up after the break, dodging disaster. gop speaker mike johnson says he's got a new plan to avert a partial government shutdown next week. democratic congressman robert garcia joins me next on the stakes on capitol hill and what it could mean for the future of critical foreign aid. don't go anywhere. u would y th. every epic footlong deserves the perfect sidekick. this new charmin ultra soft smooth tear is soooo soft and soo smooth. new charmin ultra soft smooth tear has wavy perforations that tear so much better for a smooth more enjoyable go. charmin, enjoy the go. a force to be reckon with. no, not you saquon. hm? you! your business bank account with quickbooks money, now earns 5% apy. 5% apy? that's new! yup, that's how you business differently. at st. jude, the mission is just something that everyone can truly get behind. look at our little st. jude pin there on the fridge! we're just regular peopl

the judge, aileen cannon, or the schedule for pretrial motions. they pushed all of the deadlines a couple of months. so even though that cases that we still scheduled for may. legal experts believe that judge cannon has structure the statewide highways which the trial past the 2024 election. today we have new reporting from politico, that clearly fit just yet another one of trump's criminal trials were delayed by more judges. we will figure that out, process elimination, -- jack smith's federal election interference case. separately paydays now, that case has been frozen. the judge not, creators tanya tuck in, how effectively put it on hold. trump strain of presidential immunity has made its way through the oculus, rasmussen is clear that if he loses, the hands to repeal again to the supreme court. and georgetown has concluded its almost pandas impacted seal to the highest court in the land, she will keep this case program. unable to proceed, until their decisions from the supreme court. it has been 50 days, and we don't even have an appeals court

all so george, i want you to explain to me why we are struck with aileen cannon, why the 11th circuitdard for recusal of judge cannon just might be too high of a burden for jack smith to carry. >> i think recruiting the motion is very very difficult, it is very very difficult to make the recruits will of motions on the basis of prior judicial decisions, even if the decisions are out of whack. but the one thing that could happen, and i defer to joyce on this on all things involving the 11th circuit, but one of the things that can happen, and i've seen it happen in my own circuit, in the second circuit, is that judges can get reassigned sometimes when they are mishandling a case, and they do so egregiously. and i've heard that in the 11th circuit, you get three strikes. joyce can correct me on this, but this judge clearly has already two strikes against her given what happened when she tried to block the doj investigation and impeded with the special master. >> joyce, i will go to you then, because george wants to defer to you on this particular issue. i wanted to speak specifically abo

could they basically take up aileen cannon's version of this and not the d. c. circuit courts? actually. i would expect that the supreme court may have some real questions as to whether or not there is anything there for them to answer. this was a unanimous opinion, it was a strong opinion, so they may not take it up. it may go back to judge chutkan and she may set a trial date. let's say that judge cannon does something very different -- >> she's been known to do that. >> she does, she does something very different, it goes to the 11th circuit, we have a there very different few, and maybe something that the supreme court may take up again. these arguments that donald trump is making about having absolute immunity are frivolous. so i really do not see, i do not foresee judge cannon, you know, straying too far from what the d. c. circuit has already ruled, where the 11th circuit for that matter. >> i do have to ask, because the circuit court was so clear, chuck, saying that this decision does not hold for state level prosecution. donald trump is trying out the presidential immu

let's turn to judge aileen cannon in the classified documents.th this case and what you'll be looking for the next hearing, the hearing next week, but circulate since she's been trying to slow roll this case a bit. >> the purpose for trump is always delay. he's succeeded in getting that delight in front of judge chutkan and that d.c. case lays it was referencing. what lisa's, st. louis a possibility, the reason why we haven't heard anything, it's because of the supreme court tree to his application for the stay as pretty much and asking the supreme court to text the case and perhaps right and opinion or they say we're not taking your case and that daisies or court opinion is going to be in place, day nine presidential immunity. that dovetails exactly with what happened last. not donald trump filed a slew of motions. it was that to date, it's the day. one of which is noteworthy. he filed a motion to dismiss based on presidential immunity. a big, you aren't the same arguments he's, right he's already lost. he lost in front chutkan of, he lost in fr

he's in court with aileen cannon, the presiding judge, with no department of justice lawyers present. we're not going to know what's going to happen because it's closed, but we're definitely interested in seeing what the results are. >> danny, is there any impact his presence could have on the legal proceedings here? >> yes and no. in theory, having your client there may show the client is interested. maybe that's trump's theory. katie is exactly right. there's absolutely no reason for trump to be at this particular hearing. it doesn't really serve his interest in the sense he likes thiks r things to be public. it's a sealed hearing. if you wanted something public and reported, this is not the hearing to have it done. it's not a dispositive issue as far as i know. it's sealed as far as i know. something that might result in the case being tossed. you might expect donald trump to be there as a show of force. to be there for a hearing on something that isn't possibly going to end the case, it does seem a little strange, that even taking the legal element aside, if you just want to make

please remember, on january 31st, the government met with aileen cannon for three hours.he department of justice basically presented to the judge this universe of documents that are all classified that they either don't want to turn over or they want to turn over in maybe a redacted form or maybe they want to substitute in a summary for that classified information. remember, this is a national secrets case. only donald trump has been charged with a violation of the espionage act, jose. his co-defendants have not, and that is the reason why only donald trump is present today and his co-defendants are not. >> and today is also the deadline for trump's legal team to file an appeal to the supreme court after an appeals court denied him immunity in the federal elections interference case. what are you watching for there? >> so it is the deadline for donald trump to indicate he has filed something called an application for a stay, meaning he is asking the supreme court to be able to stop the case from proceeding any further in the trial court with judge chutkan. that deadline w

campaign trail like he would want to be. >> there's also this thought that clearly the trump team has aileen cannon appointed by trump. how much stock do you? put in that though cannon is a trump appointee, chutkan is an obama appointee. that's going to be the loyalty. do you see it that way >> no not yet we haven't ever since, judge judge cannon gotten some trouble with the 11th circuit during the pre-indictment phase when we're just when it was just still an fbi investigation and the 11th circuit reversed her. >> we haven't seen >> her do anything of substance yet that would make me say she's going in the can for donald trump's use given him a lot of procedural disruptions, given them a lot of opportunities to make arguments. i don't think she just had to make him or let him do, but she hasn't done the summatively yet to make me think she's any weight bias towards donald trump, we're going to see between now and friday how that actually plays out when we get these substantive rulings that she has before her especially on the classified information at issue in that case and the deletions, the disc

he appointed aileen cannon behind closed doors. trump's team wants access to the evidence that the doj has, but that's something prosecutors have been trying to prevent. they claim some of these documents are too sensitive. now this dispute over the classified materials is threatening let's drag out that case. currently, it is still scheduled to go to trial on may 20, but we'll see what happens with that as this develops, it also came today as trump prepared for hearing in atlanta, and whether the da prosecuting trump will be removed from the georgia election interference interference case that is slated for this week as well. our team of reporters is standing by here ivan perez, live in fort pierce, florida, or trump appeared in court today. and nick valencia live in atlanta. so evan, let me start with you. i want to start with a trump's immunity appeal because that came late today obviously, he wants a supreme court to take this up. when could we hear from them in this case >> well, the pressure will be on the supreme court to sa

week because on friday will be down in florida when the judge who's overseeing that case, judge aileen cannon, she's holding a scheduling hearing currently, that trial is penciled in on the calendar for late may, but it is widely expected that's going to get pushed back and we expect to get some guidance on that on friday, but there is a concern that that could get pushed back multiple times, which again it's unclear at this point if former president trump will be tried on either one of these cases, but we'll be watching very closely on friday to see what judge aileen cannon does with that case as of now the only criminal case that we are confident is going to go this year before former president trump is the so-called new york hush money case. the case related to hush money payments that he paid to adult film star stormy daniels and the lead up to the 2016 election, that case brought by the manhattan district attorney, that case starts on march 25th. >> all right. lots going on. i paul, i want you to stay with us right now. i also want to get some reaction to the us supreme court's decision.

maybe he really is just looking for face time with judge aileen cannon, who is overseeing this case,ch is interesting to think about there. kristen, great to have you. thank you so much. sara? >> with me now is cnn legal analyst norm eisen. he is also the former house judiciary special counsel in donald trump's first impeachment trial. mr. eisen, i am so happy to see you this morning, very close to us here, trying to get everything set. i do want to ask you a question about what the arguments are today that donald trump's defense team is making in front of this judge in this classified documents case. norm, do you got me? i think we're having a bit -- we're going to take a quick break. norm eisen, it looks like max head rum right now because we're having a technical issue, for all of you that remember max headrum, we're going to hand it over to john. >>> all right. the dramatic rescue that freed two israeli hostages from gaza. we'll bring you the very latest on how the israeli defense forces managed to pull that off. >>> and nikki haley with remarks just moments ago about donald trum

so aileen cannon holding this trial date seems to be problematic on a number of levels. >> this is a different type of case because it's so high profile. it seems quite apparent to me she does not anticipate this trial occurring before november, is not really interested in it happening in november, which means it could never happen if trump is re-elected, so they're on a very tight time line here. i'm not so sure that the may date is necessarily crowding any of the other cases out just given where they are themselves located, but i do understand why people are anxious to see some sort of real calender date on this case. >> do you think that that's -- first of all, she makes this decision for pretrial motions. trump actually, his team wants to consolidate all of their motions into one -- i'm really paraphrasing here, into one document effectively, and she says, no, you need to find them individually, which means smith in turn needs to file response. just creating a lot of -- i'm not going to say busywork but it's a lot of stuff to go through. >> at the very least it shows the experien

week, donald trump made an appearance at the federal courthouse in florida to meet with judge aileen cannonointed and the one who is now overseeing the criminal case and his handling of classified information. the purpose of the closed door hearing team was, basically, to discuss why trump's team thinks the defense should have access to various types of classified evidence, which is of course a big factor here. but it was also a reminder of the unique dangers from proposed as a defendant. remember, special counsel jack smith has implored judge cannon to keep the certain documents sealed out of fear they could be used to identify more than two dozen witnesses and threaten their safety and testimony. why? because -- to intervals it's a reminder of how the trump documents case and the one involving president biden could be a more different. that nine-day difference is something the biden case, a doctor who you know well, points out in his report. here it is from robert her himself. quote, after being given multiple chances return classified documents and avoid prosecution, mr. trump allegedly

could they basically take up aileen cannon's version of this and not the d.c. circuit courts? >> yes, actually. i would expect the supreme court would have any questions whether or not there's anything there for them to answer. this was a unanimous opinion, a strong opinion so they may not take it up. let's say judge cannon does something different. >> she's been known to do that. >> she does. they have a different view, that may be something the supreme court takes up. again, though, these arguments donald trump is making about having absolute immunity, they're frivolous. and so i really don't see -- i don't foresee judge cannon, you know, straying too far from what the d.c. circuit has already ruled or the 11th circuit for that matter. >> i do have to ask because the 11th circuit was so clear, chuck, for saying this decision does not hold for the prosecution. donald trump is trying out the presidential immunity defense, yes, at maug but also trying it out in georgia with judge mcafee and the fani willis conspiracy case. do you think the dynamics changed dramatically down the

i think the definitive piece on aileen cannon and her experience and it feels like she's towing the trump line on this. >> thetr problem she has is whe this all started and it came out he was under investigation for the documents she made these rulings that legal experts and judges both looked at and said made no sense related to what thens government can do with th evidence that they took from donald trump's -- from mar-a-lago. and out of all the judges that could have gottenud the case, s now has the actual case, and she's someone as we detailed has extremely little experience, has a highly complicated case in front of her, has shown unusual lenience towards trump, and can very easily make sure that this -- can have this trial not happen until after the election. >> and is skillfully not saying explicitly i'm going to push this, butpu it's kind of like death by a thousand cuts, right? there's small incremental delay that seem reasonable -- >> and whether it's fair or not in our system judges, and i think legal folks would say this is not fair, get branded by the people who appoint them.

this judge, aileen cannon, has shown a, i don't know what the best way to say it, favoritism in the past. she has gone out of her way to be at the very least deferential to trump and his team. >> yes. i would remind you are great viewers, who probably remember because you've drilled it into them, she became infamous because she ruled in a way that no judge has ever ruled before, that donald trump should have access to these classified records and the government should not be able to look at them while they were in the middle of a live criminal investigation to try to secure the possible compromise of national security records. remember, the government was freaking out the some of this material had leaked, the sum of its operatives could've been compromised, than intelligence about iran and china and how we learn about their programs could be in the hands of other foreign adversaries. they were sweating it. this judge said you know what? you guys can't touch that stuff anymore. the appellate court swooped in and said okay there's no law under the sun and which that's appropriate. so she l

we already know that in mar-a- lago, aileen cannon is in that pocket. so, d. c.e biggest concern that he has, and this is the way that he's gonna try to slow it down. it's not surprising legal maneuver to see, but i don't know if it's gonna be successful. >> but does it feel legal or political, susan, because the argument trump's lawyers are making is that it would disrupt his ability to campaign? >> well, that's exactly right. remember, the overall argument here is that donald trump essentially is above the law, that our presidents are not subject to any kind of prosecution, even after they are no longer in office. it is such a sweeping assertion of presidential immunity, and it's a very important case for that reason, in some ways, more important than the case that was heard last week on the 14th amendment, and whether trump can be back on the ballot in colorado and maine, the two states that have struck him off the ballot, in the sense that this is setting a very potentially big precedent that would apply to all presidents, and describes the reach of president

able to riggle out of any accountability given the trump appointed judge assigned to the case, aileen cannon, has been slow walking bringing the case to trial. yesterday, judge cannon was called out by special counsel jack smith for making a, quote, clear error in the case that could reveal the identities of potential witnesses and expose them to threats from trump supporters. joining me now is david plouffe, former obama campaign manager and white house senior adviser, mary mccord, former attorney general for national security and cohost of the prosecuting donald trump podcast, and jill wine banks, former assistant watergate prosecutor. jill, i'm going to go to you because you have the experience of writing a report about a potential criminal actions by an american president. how did it strike you when you read the herr report, which did it strike you as odd? >> it struck me as a violation of everything the department of justice stands for. it was against every policy, the attorney general called it traditions but i would say it's much more than traditions. the way that herr went out of his

calendar for that but presumably that is going to happen if it happens, maybe in may or june, aileen cannon is holding this trial date and it seems to be problematic on a number of levels. >> it's not that unusual for judges to hold trial dates and then push them off as they approach. this is a different type of case because it is so high- profile. to share the concerns that people have seems quite parent to me. she doesn't anticipate this before november. which means it could never happen. but trump is reelected so they are on a very tight timeline here. i'm not sure that the mandate is crowding any of the other cases. but i do understand why people are anxious to see some sort of real pelland on this case. >> how do you read her, first of all, she makes the decision for pretrial motions. trump actually wants to consolidate all of the emotions into one, i'm really paraphrasing here, and under one document, effectively. she said no, you need to file them individually. which means that smith, and turn, needs to file the response individually. just creating a lot of -- i don't want to say bus

federal appeals court, seems to be to get it in front of his favorite judge, aileen cannon, who he appointed after losing the 2020 election. also new today, mark your calendars, next friday in georgia, scott mcafee will your oral arguments over the attempts to have district attorney fani willis disqualified from her election interference case against donald trump and his codefendants. joining us now, msnbc legal analyst barbara mcquade, a former u.s. attorney and law professor at the university of michigan law school. she is also the co-host of the podcast hashtag sisters in law and author of the upcoming book attack from within, how disinformation is sabotaging america, which comes out on tuesday. barbara, congratulations on that. and welcome back to the show. first things first, i know we have breaking news on the e. jean carroll thing, but help me understand what is happening in georgia. please explain this next step with fani willis for us. i thought we heard oral arguments last week with that amazing testimony. >> so on march 1st, a week from today, what the court will hear is closing a

. >> here's the scale, here's the thumb of aileen cannon on the scale of justice in florida. it's frustrating. that case should have already -- it should have gone to trial this month. we know it got punted into may, and even now we don't think it's going to go to trial in may. a lot of stuff i have been covering in ft. pierce even this week from classified information procedures, act sections. so much back and forth, but all of these cases standing alone have importance. in and of themselves, and i think we also have to keep our focus on that. i think alvin bragg is going to deliver a win for the state of new york, but i also want to kind of temper expectations which we have to do. there's an appellate process that will go into play as well here. any conviction that comes state or federal is going to result in appeals. so let's hope that scotus moves fast on the presidential immunity appeal, and let's make sure these cases go to trial. >> well, and to wrap this up, paul, the case in new york, it is important. you know, michael cohen did the right thing. stepped forward, and

as you know, there's been a lot of scrutiny with judge aileen cannon, particularly from critics on the, saying she clearly favors the man who put her on the bench, that man is former president donald trump. some people are saying, well, tomorrow is going to tell us a lot, but does this, indeed, give her, whether it's convenient or legit, a real out here? >> i think it does. i think it really does give her an out because, remember, judge chutkan also had other issues before her and other pending motions to dismiss, and even though she wanted to forge ahead, and essentially said as much in an order, she felt bound by precedent in her circuit. that's the d.c. circuit. that essentially holds that while immunity is on the table because immunity isn't just the right to be free from liability but the right to be free from the burdens of trial and everything that goes with it, there's a possibility that judge cannon says i can't go forward with any of this until i have guidance from the supreme court. lest i interfere with what they find is his right to be immune from prosecution. >> so kristy

judge aileen cannon issued an order late yesterday after reviewing a scathing legal filing submitted by smith earlier this week. which called her rolling a clear ever and warrant disclosing entities of numerous potential witnesses would expose them to significant and immediate risks of threat intimidation and harassment. smith has until the end of this day to comply with her older. we have several reporters and analysts and place for you covering today's developments. we are going to start with nbc's dasha burns, who's at a trump rally in conway, south carolina. here in studio is danny cevallos -- welcome to you both. dasha, i'll start with you. has president trump mentions this new warning from jack smith at all during remarks today? and in general, what he's saying? >> not so much about jack smith, alex, but certainly a whole lot about that special counsel's report on joe biden. the president had his classified documents case questioning biden's mental competency, and once again calling into question the typical rallying cry for him, calling into question the justice system, saying

they met with judge aileen cannon for hours today in closed doors. >> the >> former president's legal team arguing that they need more access to classified evidence in the mar-a-lago documents case prosecutors are meeting separately with the judge to prevent sharing the highly sensitive materials. we have cnn's evan perez, who is outside the courthouse there in fort pierce, florida evan, when might we see a decision in this case >> brianna, anytime in the next couple of days, we might see action from the judge that's right now. as you mentioned, the special counsel and their legal team, the lawyers for the government, are in the courthouse meeting with the judge, again making their argument for one by these documents should remain restricted. now, the former president spent about five hours inside the courthouse with his lawyers, with the judge, and the argument there taking is that if you're going to be having if you're going to have classified documents that are issue in this case, that it government might use in the trial and even documents that are relevant to his fence that the g

judge aileen cannon has ordered a special counsel jack smith to hand over evidence to the trump team by today. evidence that smith warrants could identify more than two other witnesses and the case and expose them to threats. in a legal filing split on thursday, smith said cannon applied the wrong legal standard when she ordered the unsealing of documents and she needed to reconsider to prevent manifest injustice, endangering witnesses by revealing their identities. well, late last night, after reading that motion, canyon road smith needs to hand over documents anyway, and again, but today. we have several correspondents and analysts in place covering today's new developments for you. joining me now we have katie phang, an attorney and host of the proceeding show, the katie phang show here on msnbc. and -- investigator for the january 6th. katie, bring us up to speed on what this dispute between cannon and smith is all about. >> there are certain parts of the discovery process to happen in a criminal case -- and during the discovery process, there is and change of information. in fac

trump's attorneys, instructed by judge aileen cannon to lay out their defense in detail and are expected to push for as much access as they can get, insisting they just can't build their defense without seeing the documents in their entirety. the special counsel's team which will meet with the judge later today is expected to argue for redacting some of that information or even withholding it altogether out of concern for national security. i want to bring in host of the the katie phang show, katie phang, also with us senior msnbc political analyst matthew dowd. onset msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. katie, i know the hearing is sealed. what do we think is happening behind closed doors and why did former president trump decide to show up? i don't think he had to be there. >> reporter: you are correct, chris. former president donald trump did not have to appear in court today. in fact, it's the first time donald trump has attended any of the hearings in the classified documents case except for his first appearance at the very beginning of the case which we know was last year. donald

florida, this morning, donald trump showed up to attend a classified documents hearing as judge aileen cannon with both the special counsel and trump's lawyers to go over discovery ahead of the classified documents trial. >>> joining us now, nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent, ken dilanian, and lisa rubin. it's a grab bag here. i'll let you start wherever you would like. >> the hearing in the classified documents case in florida was interesting, mainly about what kinds of classified material trump and his lawyers will get access to as part of the defense. judge cannon scheduled a 4 1/2 hours hearing, outside the presence of prosecutors. this is a closed hearing, where trump's lawyers were expected to present some of their defense theories while arguing they do, in fact, need access to certain classified evidence. it's interesting, trump was not required to attend the session. he chose to do so anyway. this would have been the first time he was face to face with cannon who he nominated from the bench and perceived to grant him favorable rulings. in a session with prosecutors outsi

we'll have to see how judge aileen cannon hand ls them. >> when it comes to the immunity claim by theer president and his attorney, is it likely the supreme court if which when they make a decision on the immunity claim when it comes to d.c., that will also apply to this as well? >> great question. that will answer the mail and that will cause the judge to apply the supreme court precedent, if we get supreme court precedent saying a president does not enjoy absolute immunity against prosecution for crimes he committed while in office. and then that will be a basis to reject that motion. >> "new york times" reporting they're looking a at couple of different tests, she's got a couple of different tests ahead of her when it comes to this. she's been seen as quote, unquote friendly to the former president in the past. what are you going to be watching? >> yeah, and i would say beyond friendly. 11th circuit said she abused her judicial discretion. i think it's beyond being friendly. she's made some decisions that jack smith's team has put in filings were just an absolute abuse of discretio

so here's the question, is it legally responsible for judge aileen cannon to allow another delay?w, it's a big question. i think it's fair to say that she herself is causing unnecessary delay in this case. i mean, that is sort of how would i characterize it. i think that she, had times, has given extensions and at times to respond, none was warranted. realistically, i think there is no chance, given who judge cannon's, and her mentality, that this case is gonna go to trial before the election. i think jack smith is putting that out there and making clear to judge cannon, but also to the public, that he sees this for what it is. and ultimately, making clear that she's gonna be responsible for a delay. but given her history and how she's acted in this case, it sure seems to me that she's in no hurry to move this forward. >> okay, renato mariotti, thank you so much for weighing in. appreciate that. >>> they are shocking, but not surprising, trump's comments about letting russia do whatever it wants. our next guest is the former supreme allied commander of nato. his reaction, when you

earlier this week special counsel, jack smith, met with judge aileen cannon behind closed door and inabout the case. what we don't know the details of that meeting, key to that hearing in this case is a classified information procedures act, otherwise known as cepa. particularly section four. which allows the government to delete classified information from the discovery process. jack smith might not have the last word as what will be used as evidence, because donald trump wants more. joining me now is marc sayeed, national security attorney and the guy that i needed to bring on for cipa. mark, everybody lost their mind when they thought there was some ex parte going on. it seemed so bad because it was ex parte, secret, instead of. i said, look, mark you gotta calm and explain as quickly as you can. cipa, particular the section four, and why was supposed to be ex parte and behind closed doors this week. >> you are right, katie. this is a routine procedure under cipa. like you said, under section four, they put that in. this act was created in 1980 to combat what is called, gray male.

. >> she has a scheduling conflict, judge aileen cannon of the federal district court, she has a scheduling conference tomorrow. everybody assumes her may 20th trial date is not a fix one. but instead of setting a trial date tomorrow, could she say as long as immunity is up on appeal, immunity means the right to be free from the burden of trial itself, i'm going to stay this case because it is unfair to put the burden on the former president to have to litigate other issues if he's going to be immune. absolutely. >> once again, raising the prospect that the new york hush money case about the falseification of business records at the end of the day seems like it is dramatically, just shot up in the stakes and importance. >> this would not be covered by immunity. this was not while he was president. what about georgia. >> to some extent, remember, the actual payment, the conduct, the falsification, the alleged falsification is while he's in the white house. the idea conceived during the campaign. what he's actually doing, like the whole, like, act, is actually while he's in the white house. >

ultimately, donald trump could just tell his attorney general not to pursue that any further and judge aileen cannon has shown i don't think any reason to believe that she's in any degree of haste, correct >> that's an understatement. there have been i would say more delays than usual in that case, it was already a case that was going to be on a slow track due to the involvement of classified documents, but she's definitely he added some additional time into the schedule. >> so we're not we're standing by over these last few days, the next several days to hear from the supreme court on the 14th amendment case, the colorado ballot case. it also whether or not they're going to take up issues of presidential immunity. we don't know what they're going to do as we do wait for that, though something happened in the court yesterday that flew under the radar that some people are looking at with a raised eyebrow now, and that had to do with a case adam, missouri, where the supreme court chose not to take up this case involving the dismissal of jurors for voicing religious concerns about gay relationships. bu

try and do is on friday, his team, according to sources, i've spoken with, is going to ask judge aileen cannon in florida, the judge overseeing his classified documents, criminal case, they're going to ask her to move the trial for him in that case into july, so he's not gonna be able to do another trial after the hush money case until that theoretically heads to trial. but then their hope and they hope that there would be you need to move that trial back even further, blocking out, not just the classified documents case from going to trial before the election, but also elbowing out the ability of the federal court in dc to hold his trial for 2020 election allegations. so that is the plan. if we see at work that's another thing entirely >> and carry a given everything we know about these cases, at least so far, do you expect one of these two federal cases to actually make it to trial? this year? >> that's a really hard call, wolf because there's a couple of different things at play in each of the cases and they're not the same thing. so the mar-a-lago classified documents case has classified i

the judge in the case, judge aileen cannon, a trump appointee. she met behind closed doors with lawyers on both sides. defense attorneys, and then separately prosecutors, to discuss the access to classified information which is going to be a critical issue in this case. it is also an issue and a process that could push this case, which is currently on the calendar for may, could push this later in the year, possibly even until next year. again, it's all about the delay game former president trump, reason being if he's re-elected, his attorney general could likely make special counsel jack smith, and both of his federal cases go away just dropped the case. if he's he's elected president again enormous interesting normally, in a situation like this illegal situation like this, the prosecution has to make all of the evidence available to the defense. part of the discovery process as it's called in this particular case because of the highly classified information, some of the most classified information around things are different. >> yes. well, it's

his lawyers are headed into a really crucial hearing in that florida documents case before judge aileen cannon they have a trial set for the end of may. it's very likely that that's going to get moved. so what they want to do is move it just a little bit, just a month or two into july and then the possibility could arise because that case is so complicated with classified documents that it might have to move again, so it would ascend actually elbow out any other trial if it just has a place in the calendar and gets moved along through the summer. so trump would achieve his ultimate goal of not going to trial before the election. i spoke to a bunch of sources about this and the ultimate goal is not just that he doesn't want to go to trial in these federal cases. says he especially doesn't want to go to trial in his january 6, 2020 election case before judge tanya chutkin in washington dc. really a high-stakes case that would put on display what donald trump was doing during the last election. and what one of the people told me was the entire goal here is to ice her ice. >> judge, >> tanya chutk

he's also made that motion in the florida case before judge aileen cannon.t's the mar-a-lago documents case. he filed a motion to dismiss that indictment on immunity grounds last week. one is they could just say to themselves this issue is what lawyers would call capable of repetition, yet potentially evading review. the other and potentially darker one is that they want to reverse both judge chutkan and the d.c. circuit. they took a narrow question hear. it's whether and if so to what extent a former president is entitled to immunity for actions alleged to be official conduct as president. alleged by whom is the question that i and others have posed. donald trump says that he has been indicted for acts that are official. the department of justice through special counsel jack smith takes a very different view of the acts alleged in the indictment, so you might be able to read into the wording of the question presented by the court some feeling that what the lower courts have done here is not quite right. >> and coach, why do you think it took so long for the

a texas woman was recently sentenced for threatening and voice mails to have us district judge aileen cannon assassinated good in front of her family. cannon is overseeing the federal case against trump in the mar-a-lago documents investigation. judge tanya chutkan, who presides over trump's federal election subversion case in washington has received at least one death threat and has gotten increased protection since taking trump's case. judge chutkan has also been the victim of swatting a prank paul made to law enforcement to lure police to a location under the false pretense that a crime has been committed or is in progress, even though they're hoaxes, swatting calls are dangerous. >> well, you into someone's residents is one of the most dangerous things a police officer can do in 2022, a man was arrested outside the home of supreme court justice brett kavanaugh, and later charged with attempting to kill kavanaugh below the supreme court level, the marshals don't have the resources to protect every federal judge 24/7. in 2020, a disgruntled boyer came to the new jersey home. a federal judg