into airforce rotc. and i anticipated going in and training. fortunately for me if i had gotten in. athat's the only reason. they offered me an early out. well, they didn't demand that i go on to training. i took the easiest job i could find. hi been in school and in pilot training. i was tired, so i took the easiest job i could find which was fly navigate erica debts around in southern texas. and that was an assignment for two years. >> and how did you get from there to stanford? >> well, i went back. north texas had offered me a teaching job when i got out of service and a lecture there for a couple of years at a management department. that was the front thing to do. and i had been aiming at journalists so suddenly i had this opportunity to become an academic so i had to find a way to get to a doctoral school to get a phd if i were going to remain in academia. i won a fellowship, and i apply sanford was expanding a doctoral program. i don't think they would have maintained if i had not had the scholarship. north texas was not a big school at the time. >> i like the word. >> so at